How important is knowing up from down?

Circlejoe

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Well that’s a common sense approach and I applaud it - but it’s terribly naive in today’s dystopia. In the coming days, out of context quotes and anecdotes will arise to besmirch Jackson - who is part of a league built on the backs of African Americans and the system must be racist because it its a system and all systems are racist. And the logo is racist.

Well, Irving ranks pretty low on my credibility scale. And your take on all systems are racist so the NBA must be racist is stretching the argument to the extreme (I know it's not YOUR take, but you're using it as an example). Look, I get the push back on "anti-racism", but why do we need the extremes to dominate the conversation?
 

bawlmer

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I don’t know about that. We’ve had a black prez and vp in the last decade. I agree racism exists but the generic, amorphous systemic racism and everything is racist is pushing us in the wrong direction. It breeds anger and victims and resentment. I think if we want to be honest about racism we need to pare down our claims to specifics. Crim justice system is racist. Law enforcement is racist. Meaningless bs. Where is it racist? Bonds? Traffic enforcement? Fines? And unless and until we get specific it’s hard to make meaningful changes
Your post only reinforces my negativism. It's due as much to the tendency to see racism in personal slights, as much as it is in the inside jokes told by whites describing blacks as "from the ghetto," or presuming they'd choose a court settlement over having a loved one back from the dead.
 

INRanger27

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Jan 11, 2005
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Well, Irving ranks pretty low on my credibility scale. And your take on all systems are racist so the NBA must be racist is stretching the argument to the extreme (I know it's not YOUR take, but you're using it as an example). Look, I get the push back on "anti-racism", but why do we need the extremes to dominate the conversation?
Because the extremes are the influencers and the ones who are setting the agenda with the largest share of voice.
 
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1truthteller

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Jun 13, 2010
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in another thread, @T.M.P. Posted this about me: “Your "up is down, down is up" gaslighting rhetoric is getting transparently stupid.”

Well, no. George Floyd’s death at the hands of white police is time zero for a new era that has turned race relations up side down. Gone, dead and buried is the notion of a color-blind society or judging all people by merit and character. Instead, skin color is what matters. Every corporation, government agency, or other organization will have officers or committees devoted to “diversity, equity and inclusion” in hiring and all that they do. Prisedent Biden has even ordered that all federal hiring must be “racially sensitive” whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

In the wake of this upheaval, we have learned that bar exams, medical specialty certifications, other occupational licensing, where and how we live, our streets and roads, mobility, elections, our food choices and more are all racist. We have even learned that being not a racist is racist.

Top down forcing of diversity equity inclusion is upside down. It’s no secret that minorities have been deprived of quality education. Education is really the key to inclusion, equity and diversity. Education is at the bottom and where we should start. So what is the “anti-racist” fix to improve minority educational quality? To redefine educational quality. Math is racist, English grammar is racist. Classical art and music is racist. School discipline is racist. Timeliness is racist. Even the scientific method has been said to be racist. Instead of educating minorities in law, medicine, business, the arts, humanities or the trades, we will educate them about “anti-racism” and teach about 1619, critical theory as adapted to race, and new ways of how to think about the primacy of race and skin color in a multi-racial society. Every academic discipline to which minorities don’t have full proportional representation is now racist. Meanwhile, all of those, of any race, who continue to be well educated in these disciplines in spite of this upside down thinking will continue to excel and hold important and lucrative jobs. Nothing will be solved and we will be more divided than ever.

All because of the upside down thinking embedded in diversity, equity, and inclusion.
There are degrees of racists in America. The first degree consists of racists who say "I don't see race." They are the ones who always do. The second degree of racists are the ones who claim there used to be an America that was colorblind and judged people only on their merits. That America never existed. The third degree of racists say that being racist is really being anti-racist. That is only true in the upside-down world of Republicans. The fourth and final degree of racists say that diversity, equity and inclusion are actually racially divisive.

To a greater extent every day, Republicans simply say anything they think will trigger liberals with no care whatsoever if the words are meaningless, confusing, or even self-contradictory. To remove all meaning from words so they cease to be effective in calling out the actions of those who are the enemies of democracy is a favored tool of fascists.
 

INRanger27

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There are degrees of racists in America. The first degree consists of racists who say "I don't see race." They are the ones who always do. The second degree of racists are the ones who claim there used to be an America that was colorblind and judged people only on their merits. That America never existed. The third degree of racists say that being racist is really being anti-racist. That is only true in the upside-down world of Republicans. The fourth and final degree of racists say that diversity, equity and inclusion are actually racially divisive.

To a greater extent every day, Republicans simply say anything they think will trigger liberals with no care whatsoever if the words are meaningless, confusing, or even self-contradictory. To remove all meaning from words so they cease to be effective in calling out the actions of those who are the enemies of democracy is a favored tool of fascists.
Well when you make the rules like that….

**** out of here with that BS
 

mcmurtry66

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Your post only reinforces my negativism. It's due as much to the tendency to see racism in personal slights, as much as it is in the inside jokes told by whites describing blacks as "from the ghetto," or presuming they'd choose a court settlement over having a loved one back from the dead.
those are attitudes. i have no idea how long it will take to distance ourselves from certain stereotypes and attitudes. what we can impact are areas to ensure equal opportunity and treatment and to do so we need to speak in specifics and not generalities. as for choosing a settlement over having a loved one back who says that has anything to do with race.
 

outside shooter

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Dafuq is Shooter talking about? Gwen Berry just got affirmation from the freaking Press Secretary this week.

he lives in fantasyland.
The Press Secretary is borderline incompetent.

As she said, she hadn't talked at all with the president about Gwen Berry. That's where she should have stopped.

She didn't stop. Then she conjured up some crap meant to be inoffensive to everybody, from her perspective. Her job is to deliver to the press the thoughts & policies of the administration, not to conjure up crap on the fly.

I will join with many other independents like me, with many Republicans, and with many Democrats who wish Gwen Berry to fall flat on her face, if her intention is to pull such shenanigans in Tokyo.
 
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hoot1

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Aug 29, 2001
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How can we have a color blind society when people of color are painfully aware of skin color?

How can we treat people of color equally when we think they are many times under educated and will act up at the Olympics while at the same time blaming others for making racism too much of an issue. After all, good Americans are well educated and behave patriotically in public.

Finally, complaining about those who aren't good Americans doesn't make me a racist.
 
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CO. Hoosier

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Gone, dead and buried is the notion that you can just declare that racism is dead,
Dumb. I never said or implied that. I don’t believe it to be true I’ve suggested Just the opposite. Racism could be part of human nature.

But equality under the laws, as they are codified in narrow statutes, does NOT get us to a color-blind society,
Smart. Laws cannot get us where we ought to be.
But go ahead and cling tightly to your white victimhood! Woe is CO.H., the poor oppressed white man who just can never catch a break!
Adolescent churlish bullshit: In which one of your dozens of college degree programs did you learn to think like this? Most people are done with this thinking before reaching puberty.
 
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Harry Hondo

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The greatest threat to this nation is now race-based bigotry by liberal politicians and their sycophants and propaganda receptacles.
This is a page from Trump spin and how he deals with reality. He called the NY prosecuters, "rude, nasty, and totally biased" after they indicted Trump Org. Though, in reality, that's a perfect description of Trump. It's also right out of a playbook of dictators who describe their opponents as being exactly like what they are.

The greatest threat to this nation is, and has always been, the bigotry and racism that comes from some conservatives. It's been this way since the the first slaves were bought and sold and it still exist today. The Confederates were conservatives, the Klan is conservative, right wing terrorists hate groups are conservative. You can try to flip it all you want, but most of us know it's complete bullshit.
 
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IUclover

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Nov 19, 2015
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Why would you say that? He’s never been more popular with the youngs given his flattering portrayal in Last Dance.

Pippen is a weirdo but he’s seen as a good guy. He was the most underpaid player in NBA history.
I disagree. Check the nba subreddit for the reaction of that age group.. also known as nephews or neffews.

 

CO. Hoosier

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Federal hiring for govt jobs has been racially sensitive for a very long time. OPM has long reported and disclosed the gender/ racial makeup of the federal workforce, which has long been over-represented by blacks and women compared with their total % of the general population since at least the 90s. Biden just throwing out political platitudes that are irrelevant.
Would it be racist to now comment on the safe, routine, undemanding, and unimaginative nature of the typical rank and file government job? There is more in play here than simply race.
 

jet812

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Feb 28, 2008
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Show me any media report that supports Pippen for what he said. He is a spoiled rotten me-first pampered diva. Kerr made the shot. Kukoc made the shot.

Because you are the star doesn't mean that every play needs to be run through you. Taking yourself off the court (like Pippen did) because the coach didn't call a clear out for you to go play one on one glory ball for the last shot is as "me-first" an incident as any ever pulled off on the basketball court.
Thanks for whitesplaining it better…
 

outside shooter

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Thanks for whitesplaining it better…
You don't seem to understand that term.

Whitesplaining is the act of a white person explaining topics to people of color, often in an obliviously condescending manner, and especially regarding race- or injustice-related issues.



are you a person of color? LOL.

how was my explanation condescending in any way?

you-keep-using-that-word.jpg
 
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T.M.P.

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in another thread, @T.M.P. Posted this about me: “Your "up is down, down is up" gaslighting rhetoric is getting transparently stupid.”

Well, no. George Floyd’s death at the hands of white police is time zero for a new era that has turned race relations up side down. Gone, dead and buried is the notion of a color-blind society or judging all people by merit and character. Instead, skin color is what matters. Every corporation, government agency, or other organization will have officers or committees devoted to “diversity, equity and inclusion” in hiring and all that they do. Prisedent Biden has even ordered that all federal hiring must be “racially sensitive” whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

In the wake of this upheaval, we have learned that bar exams, medical specialty certifications, other occupational licensing, where and how we live, our streets and roads, mobility, elections, our food choices and more are all racist. We have even learned that being not a racist is racist.

Top down forcing of diversity equity inclusion is upside down. It’s no secret that minorities have been deprived of quality education. Education is really the key to inclusion, equity and diversity. Education is at the bottom and where we should start. So what is the “anti-racist” fix to improve minority educational quality? To redefine educational quality. Math is racist, English grammar is racist. Classical art and music is racist. School discipline is racist. Timeliness is racist. Even the scientific method has been said to be racist. Instead of educating minorities in law, medicine, business, the arts, humanities or the trades, we will educate them about “anti-racism” and teach about 1619, critical theory as adapted to race, and new ways of how to think about the primacy of race and skin color in a multi-racial society. Every academic discipline to which minorities don’t have full proportional representation is now racist. Meanwhile, all of those, of any race, who continue to be well educated in these disciplines in spite of this upside down thinking will continue to excel and hold important and lucrative jobs. Nothing will be solved and we will be more divided than ever.

All because of the upside down thinking embedded in diversity, equity, and inclusion.
@ me again and I'll put on baggy pants (LOL - if I can find some at Salvation Army) and go all antifa on your old fascist ass ..
 

Hoopsdoc1978

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This type of shit it why Trump picked up black voters and Republicans will continue to.

Those ladies should stop being bigots. /sarcasm
 
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HooDatGuy

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Sep 10, 2020
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Yeah, they LOVE them some Trump.

What's the split, 92-8?

Like banking on Steve Alford to miss a free throw.
Trump won 12% actually. If Republicans ever win 20% of the black/ hispanic vote, the Democratic Party is in serious trouble.

A few % point shifts in large demographic populations are a big deal in electoral politics. It’s why Florida is turning more red while at the same time it turns more Hispanic.
 
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outside shooter

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My recollection is that Trump won a little higher percentage of black votes in 2020 than in 2016, but the turnout was so much higher in 2020 that the the black vote actually contributed MORE to the popular vote disparity in 2020 than it did in 2016.

If I hit 9-10 FTs it probably doesn't help my team as much as if I hit 17-20 FTs.
 
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HooDatGuy

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My recollection is that Trump won a little higher percentage of black votes in 2020 than in 2016, but the turnout was so much higher in 2020 that the the black vote actually contributed MORE to the popular vote disparity in 2020 than it did in 2016.

If I hit 9-10 FTs it probably doesn't help my team as much as if I hit 17-20 FTs.
In which Shooter tries to rationalize why Democrats bleeding the minority vote is actually a good thing for Democrats.
 
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CO. Hoosier

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Assassinated, in fact. We're generations away from sorting-out our race issue, I'm afraid.
We are now. I don’t recall George Floyd leading a civil rights march or giving an important speech about equality and race. Yet George Floyd has a law named in his honor and is seen as a hero while MLK fades away. Civil rights has become a side show to the anti-racism crowd. I’m old enough to remember when race relations was about ending discrimination, equal treatment, and unifying under the American Dream. Now race relations is about sticking it to the Man.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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Aug 30, 2001
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There are degrees of racists in America. The first degree consists of racists who say "I don't see race." They are the ones who always do. The second degree of racists are the ones who claim there used to be an America that was colorblind and judged people only on their merits. That America never existed. The third degree of racists say that being racist is really being anti-racist. That is only true in the upside-down world of Republicans. The fourth and final degree of racists say that diversity, equity and inclusion are actually racially divisive.

To a greater extent every day, Republicans simply say anything they think will trigger liberals with no care whatsoever if the words are meaningless, confusing, or even self-contradictory. To remove all meaning from words so they cease to be effective in calling out the actions of those who are the enemies of democracy is a favored tool of fascists.
Which category of racist do you fit in?
 

bawlmer

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We are now. I don’t recall George Floyd leading a civil rights march or giving an important speech about equality and race. Yet George Floyd has a law named in his honor and is seen as a hero while MLK fades away. Civil rights has become a side show to the anti-racism crowd. I’m old enough to remember when race relations was about ending discrimination, equal treatment, and unifying under the American Dream. Now race relations is about sticking it to the Man.
And I'm old enough to remember when white people in central Indiana thought civil rights was about as much BS as critical race theory is now.
 
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1truthteller

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Jun 13, 2010
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We are now. I don’t recall George Floyd leading a civil rights march or giving an important speech about equality and race. Yet George Floyd has a law named in his honor and is seen as a hero while MLK fades away. Civil rights has become a side show to the anti-racism crowd. I’m old enough to remember when race relations was about ending discrimination, equal treatment, and unifying under the American Dream. Now race relations is about sticking it to the Man.
When you say race relations were better back in the good old days, what you are really saying is that race relations were better back when black people were too afraid to complain about their treatment for fear of being imprisoned or killed. Those are the days you yearn for.
 
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i'vegotwinners

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Dec 1, 2006
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in another thread, @T.M.P. Posted this about me: “Your "up is down, down is up" gaslighting rhetoric is getting transparently stupid.”

Well, no. George Floyd’s death at the hands of white police is time zero for a new era that has turned race relations up side down. Gone, dead and buried is the notion of a color-blind society or judging all people by merit and character. Instead, skin color is what matters. Every corporation, government agency, or other organization will have officers or committees devoted to “diversity, equity and inclusion” in hiring and all that they do. Prisedent Biden has even ordered that all federal hiring must be “racially sensitive” whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

In the wake of this upheaval, we have learned that bar exams, medical specialty certifications, other occupational licensing, where and how we live, our streets and roads, mobility, elections, our food choices and more are all racist. We have even learned that being not a racist is racist.

Top down forcing of diversity equity inclusion is upside down. It’s no secret that minorities have been deprived of quality education. Education is really the key to inclusion, equity and diversity. Education is at the bottom and where we should start. So what is the “anti-racist” fix to improve minority educational quality? To redefine educational quality. Math is racist, English grammar is racist. Classical art and music is racist. School discipline is racist. Timeliness is racist. Even the scientific method has been said to be racist. Instead of educating minorities in law, medicine, business, the arts, humanities or the trades, we will educate them about “anti-racism” and teach about 1619, critical theory as adapted to race, and new ways of how to think about the primacy of race and skin color in a multi-racial society. Every academic discipline to which minorities don’t have full proportional representation is now racist. Meanwhile, all of those, of any race, who continue to be well educated in these disciplines in spite of this upside down thinking will continue to excel and hold important and lucrative jobs. Nothing will be solved and we will be more divided than ever.

All because of the upside down thinking embedded in diversity, equity, and inclusion.

keeping all the focus on race and immigration, and off economic matters, is what the controllers of both branches of the Wall St party and their multinational corporate conglomerate media want.

you don't actually think race race and race and immigration are all voters actually care about do you??

just what Wall St wants everyone to focus on, so they set out their attack dogs to make that happen as much as they can.

it's not personal, it's just business.
 

outside shooter

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Oh good. Another moron has arrived.
It is a fair question, to ask the "make America great AGAIN" fans exactly when was the era of greatness they are hoping to recapture. It does seem like an era when minorities and women were not as aggressively demanding a seat at the table. A perhaps imaginary Leave It to Beaver/ Happy Days Shangri-la.
 

mcmurtry66

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It is a fair question, to ask the "make America great AGAIN" fans exactly when was the era of greatness they are hoping to recapture. It does seem like an era when minorities and women were not as aggressively demanding a seat at the table. A perhaps imaginary Leave It to Beaver/ Happy Days Shangri-la.
no nothing to do with race. jobs, manufacturing, china, mexico etc.
 

INRanger27

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Jan 11, 2005
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It is a fair question, to ask the "make America great AGAIN" fans exactly when was the era of greatness they are hoping to recapture. It does seem like an era when minorities and women were not as aggressively demanding a seat at the table. A perhaps imaginary Leave It to Beaver/ Happy Days Shangri-la.
I don’t know of any MAGA idiots that can point to a time they wish to recapture.

For me, I thought we were at a pretty good place in the 80s and 90s…far enough away from the awfulness of Jim Crow but before social media created a cottage industry - now a widespread industry - of causing divisiveness and weaponizing race.
 

MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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Dec 5, 2001
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Duckburg
When you say race relations were better back in the good old days, what you are really saying is that race relations were better back when black people were too afraid to complain about their treatment for fear of being imprisoned or killed. Those are the days you yearn for.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Aug 29, 2001
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It is a fair question, to ask the "make America great AGAIN" fans exactly when was the era of greatness they are hoping to recapture. It does seem like an era when minorities and women were not as aggressively demanding a seat at the table. A perhaps imaginary Leave It to Beaver/ Happy Days Shangri-la.
It’s not an era. It’s a composite of all things great about us. The American Revolution, Lincoln and saving the Union, ending slavery, the industrial revolution, beating the Axis, The successful struggle for civil rights, the moon landing, and much much more. Making America Great Again is a response to all those who attack, belittle, or forgot our greatness.