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How important is knowing up from down?

It’s not an era. It’s a composite of all things great about us. The American Revolution, Lincoln and saving the Union, ending slavery, the industrial revolution, beating the Axis, The successful struggle for civil rights, the moon landing, and much much more. Making America Great Again is a response to all those who attack, belittle, or forgot our greatness.
As soon as we think we are or were great, we're lost. The American promise is a path toward a great civilization. We are still on the journey and haven't achieved it yet. For all of those accomplishments, there are blemishes on our past that must be overcome and left behind.
 
It is a fair question, to ask the "make America great AGAIN" fans exactly when was the era of greatness they are hoping to recapture. It does seem like an era when minorities and women were not as aggressively demanding a seat at the table. A perhaps imaginary Leave It to Beaver/ Happy Days Shangri-la.
What did Bill Clinton mean when he said let's "make America great again?"

 
As soon as we think we are or were great, we're lost. The American promise is a path toward a great civilization. We are still on the journey and haven't achieved it yet. For all of those accomplishments, there are blemishes on our past that must be overcome and left behind.
I agree with all of this. But only one of us is able to say that we will never be allowed to leave it behind - not as long as it can be monetized.
 
It’s not an era. It’s a composite of all things great about us. The American Revolution, Lincoln and saving the Union, ending slavery, the industrial revolution, beating the Axis, The successful struggle for civil rights, the moon landing, and much much more. Making America Great Again is a response to all those who attack, belittle, or forgot our greatness.
I have to admit...that little 4 word campaign bumper sticker (MAGA) has been an effective tool for DJT. He owes his entire presidency to whoever came up with it and/or convinced him to use it.
It's simplistic and nebulous enough to not mean anything, and at the same time, it means everything.
To you, it harkens back to all the aspects you so eloquently listed above. Who could argue with any of that? Everything you listed obviously represents our country's most laudable events. If it truly rings that bell for you, who could blame you?
At the same time, it does, ever so subtly, imply a less positive meaning...and the further you move down the intolerance path, the more powerful it becomes. As bawlmer said, we will never find greatness by looking back. Greatness is a never ending journey...kind of like golfers who talk about the impossibility of a perfect golf swing. Greatness is achieved by striving for greatness, not convincing ourselves we have already reached it.

So, huzzah to the political staffer who was able to convince Trump to utilize that phrase. It resonated all across the GOP spectrum...from middle of the road conservatives to the most extreme alt-right, Qanon dumb shits...it was fluffy red meat cotton candy that pulled everyone under those tent flaps of the Right Wing.
 
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As soon as we think we are or were great, we're lost. The American promise is a path toward a great civilization. We are still on the journey and haven't achieved it yet. For all of those accomplishments, there are blemishes on our past that must be overcome and left behind.
I wholeheartedly agree that greatness is an aspiration. I think that is how Trump talked about it. ”America has never lived up to its ideals” is an often used phrase as a reason for different governmental-imposed remedial actions. Our ideals are also aspirational. We don’t live up to those, we aspire to do that.
 
I have to admit...that little 4 word campaign bumper sticker (MAGA) has been an effective tool for DJT. He owes his entire presidency to whoever came up with it and/or convinced him to use it.
It's simplistic and nebulous enough to not mean anything, and at the same time, it means everything.
To you, it harkens back to all the aspects you so eloquently listed above. Who could argue with any of that? Everything you listed obviously represents our country's most laudable events. If it truly rings that bell for you, who could blame you?
At the same time, it does, ever so subtly, imply a less positive meaning...and the further you move down the intolerance path, the more powerful it becomes. As bawlmer said, we will never find greatness by looking back. Greatness is a never ending journey...kind of like golfers who talk about the impossibility of a perfect golf swing. Greatness is achieved by striving for greatness, not convincing ourselves we have already reached it.

So, huzzah to the political staffer who was able to convince Trump to utilize that phrase. It resonated all across the GOP spectrum...from middle of the road conservatives to the most extreme alt-right, Qanon dumb shits...it was fluffy red meat cotton candy that pulled everyone under those tent flaps of the Right Wing.
i've never taken it to mean anything other than industry - US jobs, manufacturing etc. i get trump has ad men/speech writers/publicists etc. but i think his own hubris "trumped" same and in MAGA he was only talking about what he knows or assumed to know: business/industry shit. i doubt he's ever given thought to race relations, social issues, etc.

here's a take from back then

 
Which category of racist do you fit in?
No matter how many times you say it, no matter how much you want it to be true, no matter how true it is in Conservative World, here in actual, objective reality, being against racism doesn't make you racist.
 
No matter how many times you say it, no matter how much you want it to be true, no matter how true it is in Conservative World, here in actual, objective reality, being against racism doesn't make you racist.
I never said that. I’m against racism and live in objective reality. I was commenting on your racism categories. Which category of racist are you in? It’s a serious question.
 
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Nobody ever even thought of it before Donald, according to Donald....

The line of 'Make America great again,' the phrase, that was mine, I came up with it about a year ago, and I kept using it, and everybody's now using it, they are all loving it," Trump said in a 2015 interview with MyFox New York. "I don't know, I guess I should copyright it, maybe I have copyrighted it."
 
Nobody ever even thought of it before Donald, according to Donald....

The line of 'Make America great again,' the phrase, that was mine, I came up with it about a year ago, and I kept using it, and everybody's now using it, they are all loving it," Trump said in a 2015 interview with MyFox New York. "I don't know, I guess I should copyright it, maybe I have copyrighted it."
Did you believe him? I knew he didn’t invent it. I had a memory of other politicians using the phrase.
 
To answer the question originally posed in this thread: apparently not very important.
 
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To Trumpers, up is what DJT says it is, and down is what DJT says it is. If DJT hasn't said, then trust what Tucker, Laura, Rudy, Don Jr., MTG, Ted, Gaetz, or Q say.
 
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Did you believe him? I knew he didn’t invent it. I had a memory of other politicians using the phrase.
CoH said Trump used it as "aspirational." Not only is that much too big of a word for Trump to even know the definition of, but I'd say that Trump used it for the same reasons he referred to "Mexicans" and promoted the Birther Conspiracy. Just because none of our cooler conservatives are racist doesn't change the fact that Trump has always appealed to a certain element that is...

Does anybody really think it's a coincidence that Trump spoke of making America "great again" on the heels of the first Black POTUS? And somehow all the racist elements suddenly became emboldened to speak openly, and to even hold a rally to protest the removal of the statues of "Southern heroes"?

From the start, Charlottesville was a gathering of openly racist Vanguard and KKK members. The permit, planning, and general organization were all done under Richard Spencer and his disciple that lived in Charlottesville (Kessler).

For some unfathomable reason, a lot of self-described "non-racist" Conservatives seemed to think it was somehow a good idea to join with racists in a "Unite the Right" rally, seemingly forgetting the adage of "lying down with dogs". A girl was murdered and Trump tried to parse the conservatives there into racists and non-racists because they both liked him.

Presumably, when he spoke of there being "good people on both sides" he meant the "non-racist" portion of the right-wingers there. Yet they were still attending a rally held by racists. Do good people do that?

I don't think History will be kind to MAGA or Trump. He's like an obese, illiterate version of Huey Long...
 
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i've never taken it to mean anything other than industry - US jobs, manufacturing etc. i get trump has ad men/speech writers/publicists etc. but i think his own hubris "trumped" same and in MAGA he was only talking about what he knows or assumed to know: business/industry shit. i doubt he's ever given thought to race relations, social issues, etc.

here's a take from back then

The reason MAGA was a great slogan - besides the fact that it's catchy and easy to remember - is that it's a Rorshach test. It could mean manufacturing jobs. It could mean increased coal production. It could mean fewer Mexican people. It means whatever the listener wants it to mean.
 
The reason MAGA was a great slogan - besides the fact that it's catchy and easy to remember - is that it's a Rorshach test. It could mean manufacturing jobs. It could mean increased coal production. It could mean fewer Mexican people. It means whatever the listener wants it to mean.
While illusory - there’s no going back to whatever times were “better” for myriad reasons
 
Well, Irving ranks pretty low on my credibility scale. And your take on all systems are racist so the NBA must be racist is stretching the argument to the extreme (I know it's not YOUR take, but you're using it as an example). Look, I get the push back on "anti-racism", but why do we need the extremes to dominate the conversation?
Irving is a flat earther although I guess he apologized for saying it publicly. Anybody that would assign him credibility is as loopy as he is...
 
While illusory - there’s no going back to whatever times were “better” for myriad reasons
That's the best part. Because the "better time" is whatever the listener imagines it to be in his head ("imagine" being the key word - it's imaginary!), it doesn't matter if we can actually go back there. The only thing that matters is that the listener says, "Yeah, I'd like to be there. Let's go there!"
 
CoH said Trump used it as "aspirational." Not only is that much too big of a word for Trump to even know the definition of, but I'd say that Trump used it for the same reasons he referred to "Mexicans" and promoted the Birther Conspiracy. Just because none of our cooler conservatives are racist doesn't change the fact that Trump has always appealed to a certain element that is...

Does anybody really think it's a coincidence that Trump spoke of making America "great again" on the heels of the first Black POTUS? And somehow all the racist elements suddenly became emboldened to speak openly, and to even hold a rally to protest the removal of the statues of "Southern heroes"?

From the start, Charlottesville was a gathering of openly racist Vanguard and KKK members. The permit, planning, and general organization were all done under Richard Spencer and his disciple that lived in Charlottesville (Kessler).

For some unfathomable reason, a lot of self-described "non-racist" Conservatives seemed to think it was somehow a good idea to join with racists in a "Unite the Right" rally, seemingly forgetting the adage of "lying down with dogs". A girl was murdered and Trump tried to parse the conservatives there into racists and non-racists because they both liked him.

Presumably, when he spoke of there being "good people on both sides" he meant the "non-racist" portion of the right-wingers there. Yet they were still attending a rally held by racists. Do good people do that?

I don't think History will be kind to MAGA or Trump. He's like an obese, illiterate version of Huey Long...
The only thing aspirational about Trump's campaign was that he aspired to be President.
 
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