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Not that simply but say I immigrate to the U.S. I bring my wife and children. Brothers and sisters of adult citizens are allowed to come as well as parents I believe. So my wife becomes citizen and her sister comes along with her spouse and children. Then my brother and sister come with their spouses and children. Then their spouses siblings come and so on and so forth.
The thing is this. After you come here, and after you become a citizen, then you can sponsor your brother. Your brother can only apply for his wife and kids to come with him as derivatives, and it takes about fifteen years on average before you'll see him here. Then, after they are here, he and his wife can go through the process of becoming citizens. Only after his wife becomes a citizen can she then sponsor her sister and start the process all over again. There is no flood of giant families. It's a very, very, very slow trickle.
 
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Not that simply but say I immigrate to the U.S. I bring my wife and children. Brothers and sisters of adult citizens are allowed to come as well as parents I believe. So my wife becomes citizen and her sister comes along with her spouse and children. Then my brother and sister come with their spouses and children. Then their spouses siblings come and so on and so forth.
sounds like exactly what happened with my great great grandparents...sounds like America
 
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...but the alternative theory that Pubs like Papa Johns more than Dems because of how they feel about the causes the founder supports seems plausible.
Without diving into it deeply, the survey was about what people thought of the brands, not necessarily whether they patronized them or not. The Trump brand topped the list. But I doubt our new fungus friend stays at a Trump hotel regularly. And Hack very well may like what John has to say, but also have good taste in pizza. It could happen...
 
sounds like exactly what happened with my great great grandparents...sounds like America

2 differences...1 they probably came here by whatever method was legal at the time and 2, this is the big one, it probably occurred before we had set up our welfare state. Once you do that, you have to have a handle on immigration.
 
Not that simply but say I immigrate to the U.S. I bring my wife and children. Brothers and sisters of adult citizens are allowed to come as well as parents I believe. So my wife becomes citizen and her sister comes along with her spouse and children. Then my brother and sister come with their spouses and children. Then their spouses siblings come and so on and so forth.
Ok, but that takes like 10-20 years. Do you seriously think there are just hordes of people coming over here at once?
 
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2 differences...1 they probably came here by whatever method was legal at the time and 2, this is the big one, it probably occurred before we had set up our welfare state. Once you do that, you have to have a handle on immigration.
1. Prior to the 20s, if you could get here, you were legal.

2. Legal immigrants aren't able to cross the border and start drawing "welfare". I know when my Kommie Kanukistani wife and I were going through her immigration process, I had to prove I could support her financially and was responsible for that support for a number of years.
 
Legally, no.

Illegally, yes.

I'd be interested in any data you can find that "hordes" of illegals are streaming into the US.

That was certainly true in the 90s-early 2000s. I've seen no data that shows that to be the case over the last decade.

Is this just a gut reaction from you?
 
Not to mention Trump's CONSTANT lying, cheating on one of his multiple wives, paying off PORN STARS not to tell their story, raping his own wife and (allegedly) a 13 year old girl. That doesn't matter to Van, or any Evangelical.

That's why I think the Devil is in charge!!!
What about Hillary covering for Bill's possible rape charges? What about her attacking women Clinton had sex with instead of attacking him? The left is dirty from the Clinton years. They have no room to throw stones. If you give me a choice between Hillary and the Donald I will pick the Donald every time because he is a Pro Life President and is dismantling the Washington machine which is good for the country as a whole. If I was his pastor I would counsel him on his sexual life, to love the women he is married to only. What the left has been doing is to forget all the left's sexual indiscretions and choose to attack Trump alone. It is not fair and shows this is political not moral. Come on Doc. In the 90's what did you say about Bill Clinton? Be honest.
 
What about Hillary covering for Bill's possible rape charges? What about her attacking women Clinton had sex with instead of attacking him? The left is dirty from the Clinton years.
DrHoops is pointing out your hypocrisy, not Clinton's. We are beyond criticizing Clintons; their days are over. They are non-factors!!!

However, Trump is here now. Unlike Clintons, what Trump says and does hurt/help the entire world! It can destroy the entire world as we know today. Get that? Do you realize the potential consequences of the pissing match Kim and Trump are playing now? Neither of them is known for patience or deep thoughts. If, for instance, Kim gets pissed and slips his finger on the button, and you know that he has the mental madness to do just that, boom, hundreds of thousands of Californians and Washingtonians, including yours truly, will be dead a few minutes later. In response, Trump will respond in kind, killing additional millions of Koreans and even Chinese. Do you think China, and perhaps even Russia, will allow that? So, they respond in kind. Is that what you want?

Do you think Jesus would allow that? The Jesus I learned of preached peace. The Jesus you preach seems to prefer war, violence, and hatred.

Trump has lived "sinful" life for decades, perhaps for the entire life. Yet, the likes of you support him and voted for him, and what's more, with God on your back! That is the hypocrisy DrHoops is pointing out. I feel sorry for God for being used as such.:(
 
DrHoops is pointing out your hypocrisy, not Clinton's. We are beyond criticizing Clintons; their days are over. They are non-factors!!!

However, Trump is here now. Unlike Clintons, what Trump says and does hurt/help the entire world! It can destroy the entire world as we know today. Get that? Do you realize the potential consequences of the pissing match Kim and Trump are playing now? Neither of them is known for patience or deep thoughts. If, for instance, Kim gets pissed and slips his finger on the button, and you know that he has the mental madness to do just that, boom, hundreds of thousands of Californians and Washingtonians, including yours truly, will be dead a few minutes later. In response, Trump will respond in kind, killing additional millions of Koreans and even Chinese. Do you think China, and perhaps even Russia, will allow that? So, they respond in kind. Is that what you want?

Do you think Jesus would allow that? The Jesus I learned of preached peace. The Jesus you preach seems to prefer war, violence, and hatred.

Trump has lived "sinful" life for decades, perhaps for the entire life. Yet, the likes of you support him and voted for him, and what's more, with God on your back! That is the hypocrisy DrHoops is pointing out. I feel sorry for God for being used as such.:(
Are you saying that another President, any President, wouldn’t respond to a nuclear attack with a nuclear attack?
 
DrHoops is pointing out your hypocrisy, not Clinton's. We are beyond criticizing Clintons; their days are over. They are non-factors!!!

However, Trump is here now. Unlike Clintons, what Trump says and does hurt/help the entire world! It can destroy the entire world as we know today. Get that? Do you realize the potential consequences of the pissing match Kim and Trump are playing now? Neither of them is known for patience or deep thoughts. If, for instance, Kim gets pissed and slips his finger on the button, and you know that he has the mental madness to do just that, boom, hundreds of thousands of Californians and Washingtonians, including yours truly, will be dead a few minutes later. In response, Trump will respond in kind, killing additional millions of Koreans and even Chinese. Do you think China, and perhaps even Russia, will allow that? So, they respond in kind. Is that what you want?

Do you think Jesus would allow that? The Jesus I learned of preached peace. The Jesus you preach seems to prefer war, violence, and hatred.

Trump has lived "sinful" life for decades, perhaps for the entire life. Yet, the likes of you support him and voted for him, and what's more, with God on your back! That is the hypocrisy DrHoops is pointing out. I feel sorry for God for being used as such.:(
How come Kim hasn't launched yet? It's because he knows he will lose his country if he does. We really have no idea how China,Russia or any other country with nuclear weapons will react. Iran will most likely have a weapon soon because of President Obama's deal with them.
It's funny how you say the Clinton days are over, but probably voted for Hillary. She was complicate concerning Bill's sinful lifestyle he most likely has lived his entire life. The truth is you on the left don't care about morals as much as you care about political power. Be honest with me. Did you call for Al Frankin to resign or be replaced early on in the process or was it when you figured out he was a liability?
 
How come Kim hasn't launched yet? It's because he knows he will lose his country if he does. We really have no idea how China,Russia or any other country with nuclear weapons will react. Iran will most likely have a weapon soon because of President Obama's deal with them.
It's funny how you say the Clinton days are over, but probably voted for Hillary. She was complicate concerning Bill's sinful lifestyle he most likely has lived his entire life. The truth is you on the left don't care about morals as much as you care about political power. Be honest with me. Did you call for Al Frankin to resign or be replaced early on in the process or was it when you figured out he was a liability?
Van, quite a few liberals called for Franken to go very early. Meanwhile, you are doing the very thing you are accusing the left of. Glass houses.
 
What about Hillary covering for Bill's possible rape charges? What about her attacking women Clinton had sex with instead of attacking him? The left is dirty from the Clinton years. They have no room to throw stones. If you give me a choice between Hillary and the Donald I will pick the Donald every time because he is a Pro Life President and is dismantling the Washington machine which is good for the country as a whole. If I was his pastor I would counsel him on his sexual life, to love the women he is married to only. What the left has been doing is to forget all the left's sexual indiscretions and choose to attack Trump alone. It is not fair and shows this is political not moral. Come on Doc. In the 90's what did you say about Bill Clinton? Be honest.
Van, you and many others, refuse to understand that it isn't the 90's anymore. That was 30 years ago and things have shifted very much since then. If Trump is pro life, why do you think he wanted Marla to have an abortion? And by the way, what do you think Trump being prolife is going to get you? The way to make abortion less common is through education and organizations like Planned Parenthood. Yet you are against those. There have always been abortions. The difference is now they are safe and legal. Do you want to move them back to dark alleys so even more women and babies will die? That doesn't seem like a very good plan. So what does it really mean that you vote for someone because they are prolife?
Topic 2, what do you mean he is dismantling Washington? He is appointing the same type of Goldman Sachs people , probably even more than people have in the past. The only thing he has dismantled are the norms of how a president should act, and that is proving to be very destructive to America. Havinga president that is incompetent, racist, misogynist, a sexual predator, and corrupt is most definitely NOT good for the country. The Christian evangelicals that support this man are the most hypocritical lot I have seen in my lifetime . You are on the wrong side of history. I'd love to be at the pearly gates hearing all your excuses for supporting this pathetic man.
 
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How come Kim hasn't launched yet? It's because he knows he will lose his country if he does. We really have no idea how China,Russia or any other country with nuclear weapons will react. Iran will most likely have a weapon soon because of President Obama's deal with them.
It's funny how you say the Clinton days are over, but probably voted for Hillary. She was complicate concerning Bill's sinful lifestyle he most likely has lived his entire life. The truth is you on the left don't care about morals as much as you care about political power. Be honest with me. Did you call for Al Frankin to resign or be replaced early on in the process or was it when you figured out he was a liability?
I honestly can't believe you can get on here and write this stuff. You're saying the left doesn't care about morals and only wants power? Meanwhile the right supports a pedophile, supports Trump who sexually assaulted over a dozen women, had an affair with a porn star, and used campaign money to pay her off. Stand down, Van. You're losing any smudge of credibility you ever had.
 
What about Hillary covering for Bill's possible rape charges? What about her attacking women Clinton had sex with instead of attacking him? The left is dirty from the Clinton years. They have no room to throw stones. If you give me a choice between Hillary and the Donald I will pick the Donald every time because he is a Pro Life President and is dismantling the Washington machine which is good for the country as a whole. If I was his pastor I would counsel him on his sexual life, to love the women he is married to only. What the left has been doing is to forget all the left's sexual indiscretions and choose to attack Trump alone. It is not fair and shows this is political not moral. Come on Doc. In the 90's what did you say about Bill Clinton? Be honest.
You are literally using a Soviet tactic: whataboutism.

Also, Trump is on tape joking about aborting his daughter. Any thoughts on that? And how in the hell is Trump dismantling anything? Half of his staff is Goldman Sachs executives.

By the way, Franken was rightfully ripped and resigned. Weinstein was blackballed and is out of the industry. Get out from under your rock.
 
How come Kim hasn't launched yet? It's because he knows he will lose his country if he does. We really have no idea how China,Russia or any other country with nuclear weapons will react. Iran will most likely have a weapon soon because of President Obama's deal with them.
It's funny how you say the Clinton days are over, but probably voted for Hillary. She was complicate concerning Bill's sinful lifestyle he most likely has lived his entire life. The truth is you on the left don't care about morals as much as you care about political power. Be honest with me. Did you call for Al Frankin to resign or be replaced early on in the process or was it when you figured out he was a liability?
How does a pastor become so obsessed with partisan politics? That seems to be the complete opposite of what Jesus taught. Read your posts. You lump all the LEFTIES into one big group. You need help. Seriously.
 
How does a pastor become so obsessed with partisan politics? That seems to be the complete opposite of what Jesus taught. Read your posts. You lump all the LEFTIES into one big group. You need help. Seriously.

It really isn’t hard to understand if you are honest about it.... if you believe it is perfectly acceptable for a person to become concerned with self preservation when attacked, I can understand how they may push back at every sign of further attacks. To say religion....no....Christianity hasn’t been under attack in the country primarily by people of the left and academia, is dishonest. I can see how someone can become hyper sensitive. Just an opinion. See, by throwing your “isn’t this the opposite of what Jesus taught”? Is an attempt to slam, belittle, make fun, etc of people of faith. Would it not also be the opposite of what Muhammad taught?
 
Are you saying that another President, any President, wouldn’t respond to a nuclear attack with a nuclear attack?
Never said that.
A sane president would not provoke Kim as our current president is doing. I wish you would not twist my words to suit your purpose.:(
 
Never said that.
A sane president would not provoke Kim as our current president is doing. I wish you would not twist my words to suit your purpose.:(
I didn’t twist your words. I might have misunderstood you, but it seemed you were troubled that Trump might retaliate for a nuclear attack.

What purpose do you suppose that I have?
 
How come Kim hasn't launched yet? It's because he knows he will lose his country if he does. We really have no idea how China,Russia or any other country with nuclear weapons will react. Iran will most likely have a weapon soon because of President Obama's deal with them.
It's funny how you say the Clinton days are over, but probably voted for Hillary. She was complicate concerning Bill's sinful lifestyle he most likely has lived his entire life. The truth is you on the left don't care about morals as much as you care about political power. Be honest with me. Did you call for Al Frankin to resign or be replaced early on in the process or was it when you figured out he was a liability?

Here are my responses to your post, point by point. Sorry for the delay in my answer. My son-in-law got a new job in Seattle, and I went to their new home to see my daughter and 2 grandchildren as well as helping them to haul their furniture. OK, here are my responses to your statements, point by point.

1) Your statement: How come Kim hasn't launched yet? It's because he knows he will lose his country if he does. We really have no idea how China, Russia or any other country with nuclear weapons will react.

Reply- OK, instead of asking me, ask Kim directly!
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Seriously, perhaps Kim is more patient and realistic than his bravado might indicate? Perhaps, our president is more infantile than Kim? To me, both look and act like a couple of spoiled children. Why else is he bragging that his nuclear button is bigger than Kim's? Does he know that Kim is also aware of it? Was bragging really necessary? Don’t you think it is childish? (my apologies to the children, since I think the children are more mature than our president and Kim in such matter.) If he launches a missile, do you think he will be the sole loser? We don't know how China, Russia, and other countries will react, but it is not too difficult to guess.

Historical perspective: When North Korea invaded South Korea in 1950, the US reacted instantly. I am sure just about everybody thought that the war would be over in a matter of a few months. Many believed that Korea would be finally reunited with the help of the US. It did not happen. China sent an army to support NK. Russia provided weapons and fighter jets to North Korea. The war lasted something like 3 more years, finally settled pretty much along the original border.

The end result was an armistice, meaning that theoretically, the war is still going on. Both the South and the North are spending an enormous amount of manpower and money to support this non-war, which may become a real war, dragging the rest of the world for this senseless division.

To add to the above statement, the US still has a substantial military presence there as well as other parts of Asia.

2) Iran will most likely have a weapon soon because of President Obama's deal with them.

Reply:
Your blaming Obama is so ignorant, to say politely, or just a typical partisan stereotyping, or both.

To get to the root of Iran's nuclear thing, you have to go back several presidents, including Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, another Bush, and Obama. That includes 5 Democrats and 6 Republicans. If you ask me, it can't be any more bi-partisan than this!

If, indeed, it was Obama's fault, as you insist, what have the 10 presidents prior to Obama, which includes 6 Republicans, done to solve the problem? Did you voice your opinion, condemning Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, and Bush-II for not resolving the Iran problem? I bet my farm that you did not. I would think you most likely blamed Kennedy, if you are old enough, otherwise, you would've blamed Carter and Clinton as well, instead of just Obama.

As for the money returned to Iran, it belongs to Iran, and the US seized it in the early 90s. So, when the "agreement" has been finalized, it was a right thing for the US to do. If not, the US would be stealing their money. Are you advocating for the US to be a highway robber?

3) It's funny how you say the Clinton days are over, but you probably voted for Hillary. She was complicate concerning Bill's sinful lifestyle he most likely has lived his entire life.

Reply: First of all, I did not vote for Hilary Clinton. I did not vote for Donal Trump either. I will let you guess whom I voted for.

And yeah, Trump is a paragon of virtue! Hallelujah!



4) The truth is you on the left don't care about morals as much as you care about political power.


Reply: If that were the case, how come we hear all these sleazy things the rightwing politicians do, and get support from the holier-than-thou people like Reverend Van? Do you consider Pres. Trump a paragon of virtue? Judge Moore?

Equating political persuasion as the measure of morality is as stupid as it gets.

5) Be honest with me. Did you call for Al Franken to resign or be replaced early on in the process or was it when you figured out he was a liability?

Reply: As for Franken, I believed the story when it came out. After all, he was in the entertainment business, where that kind of activities is quite common. He was not a supreme court justice or such, whose moral values are highly expected. Yet, I hoped Franken would apologize in public el pronto, and he did. As for resignation, I was a sort of surprised, based on what Moore was going through, but understood it. In the end, what he did was the right thing to do. After all, your hero, Moore, did far worse things than what Franken did, yet stayed to the end, and still complaining with supports from other holier-than-thou’s. I can’t help but feel that you were/are one of them. SAD!!!
 
I didn’t twist your words. I might have misunderstood you, but it seemed you were troubled that Trump might retaliate for a nuclear attack.

What purpose do you suppose that I have?
OK, I now have the time to read more carefully, and went back to my post of your concern. I can't find what part of my post/posts made you think I am troubled that Trump might retaliate for a nuclear attack.

I have no idea what purpose you had in mind. It just is puzzling.:rolleyes:
 
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The Tom Cotton and Stephen Miller wing has moved the goal post on any immigration deal. The deal was DACA and doing borders to address ILLEGAL immigration. Now, they are trying to curb LEGAL immigration into the country.

Edit misspelling
 
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The Tom Cotton and Stephen Miller wing has moved the goal post on any immigration deal. The deal was DACA and during borders to address ILLEGAL immigration. Now, they are trying to curb LEGAL immigration into the country.
I agree. I'm OK if Dems compromise with the Pubs and provide funding for border security to do DACA but going along with the changes on legal immigration would be a surrender. That wouldn't be OK.
 
I agree. I'm OK if Dems compromise with the Pubs and provide funding for border security to do DACA but going along with the changes on legal immigration would be a surrender. That wouldn't be OK.

It also changes the tone of the defense of “I don’t want people to come into the country illegally” to “I don’t want immigrants at all.” It will interesting to see how people explain their, um, fluid position on this.
 
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The thing is this. After you come here, and after you become a citizen, then you can sponsor your brother. Your brother can only apply for his wife and kids to come with him as derivatives, and it takes about fifteen years on average before you'll see him here. Then, after they are here, he and his wife can go through the process of becoming citizens. Only after his wife becomes a citizen can she then sponsor her sister and start the process all over again. There is no flood of giant families. It's a very, very, very slow trickle.
]

It is not a trickle. It grows exponentially over the years. Below is a quote from
https://cis.org/Report/Immigration-Multipliers

  • According to the most complete contemporary academic studies on chain migration, in recent years each new immigrant sponsored an average of 3.45 additional immigrants. In the early 1980s, the chain migration multiplier was 2.59, or more than 30 percent lower.
  • Of the top immigrant-sending countries, Mexico has the highest rate of chain migration. In the most recent five-year cohort of immigrants studied (1996-2000), each new Mexican immigrant sponsored 6.38 additional legal immigrants.

Green card holders can also bring in spouses and unmarried children. That doesn’t take that long. If the,siblings are old enough they can go back, marry...and the beat goes on. Also, as with any super complex system there are ways to game the system to bypass rules etc. that is also commonplace.

American citizens can petition for spouses(they would likely already be here) children.married or not, and all siblings. As a result, the number of Green card holders can and did explode over a long period of time. Hence the backlog.

Chain migration is simply one way to prioritize who can immigrate. It obviously is focused on allowing families to get priority and may eliminate other people who have desires, skills, and abilities that could contribute more to our country.

I think Pres Trump is dead wrong that chain immigration causes terrorist attacks but the topic does need to be addressed. With the system we have over time the % of immigrants thru the chain process has become the norm and resulted in others who might have greater skills and abilities being pushed aside.

The real question is: How many people can we (and should we) allow to immigrate here annually. Demand will always be greater than supply hence the need to secure the border.

One of the Republicans said, and I think he is right, that Trumps plan with Dreamers will greatly encourage another huge round of kids crossing the border illegally. That’s what happened when Pres. Obama created the original DACA plan.

IMHO since we now have more people on food stamps, welfare, etc we need to get more of them working in a productive way. To accomplish that if we need to permit fewer immigrants for a few years so be it.
 
Chain migration is simply one way to prioritize who can immigrate. It obviously is focused on allowing families to get priority and may eliminate other people who have desires, skills, and abilities that could contribute more to our country.
So for you it's all about the money, amirite?
 
So for you it's all about the money, amirite?


Huh? I care about poor Americans who are without job skills and an opportunity. They are stuck on welfare and food stamps, etc. we need to focus on them to give them a hand up so that they can provide for themselves. President Clinton was very successful getting opportunities for people in order to reduce their need to public assistance.
 
]

It is not a trickle. It grows exponentially over the years. Below is a quote from
https://cis.org/Report/Immigration-Multipliers

  • According to the most complete contemporary academic studies on chain migration, in recent years each new immigrant sponsored an average of 3.45 additional immigrants. In the early 1980s, the chain migration multiplier was 2.59, or more than 30 percent lower.
  • Of the top immigrant-sending countries, Mexico has the highest rate of chain migration. In the most recent five-year cohort of immigrants studied (1996-2000), each new Mexican immigrant sponsored 6.38 additional legal immigrants.

Green card holders can also bring in spouses and unmarried children. That doesn’t take that long. If the,siblings are old enough they can go back, marry...and the beat goes on. Also, as with any super complex system there are ways to game the system to bypass rules etc. that is also commonplace.

American citizens can petition for spouses(they would likely already be here) children.married or not, and all siblings. As a result, the number of Green card holders can and did explode over a long period of time. Hence the backlog.

Chain migration is simply one way to prioritize who can immigrate. It obviously is focused on allowing families to get priority and may eliminate other people who have desires, skills, and abilities that could contribute more to our country.

I think Pres Trump is dead wrong that chain immigration causes terrorist attacks but the topic does need to be addressed. With the system we have over time the % of immigrants thru the chain process has become the norm and resulted in others who might have greater skills and abilities being pushed aside.

The real question is: How many people can we (and should we) allow to immigrate here annually. Demand will always be greater than supply hence the need to secure the border.

One of the Republicans said, and I think he is right, that Trumps plan with Dreamers will greatly encourage another huge round of kids crossing the border illegally. That’s what happened when Pres. Obama created the original DACA plan.

IMHO since we now have more people on food stamps, welfare, etc we need to get more of them working in a productive way. To accomplish that if we need to permit fewer immigrants for a few years so be it.
The key is "over the years." It is a trickle. It takes years to decades for families from abroad to settle and reunite in America. That's the debate we were originally having.

Now, you bring up a different issue here, which is the fact that most immigration is for purposes of family reunification, which makes it harder for potential immigrants without a family sponsor to make it here. That is true. The question at that point becomes, which is more important? Do we think it's more important that an American citizen should be able to eventually bring family members here, or do we think it's more important that someone without a family connection should be able to come here on account of some particular skill set? Reasonable people can disagree on how to answer that question, I suppose.

But originally, we were talking about how family reunification works. Some people seem to be portraying it as a loophole that allows one immigrant to bring a large family with him, increasing the volume and rate of legal immigration. That portrayal is inaccurate.
 
The key is "over the years." It is a trickle. It takes years to decades for families from abroad to settle and reunite in America. That's the debate we were originally having.

Now, you bring up a different issue here, which is the fact that most immigration is for purposes of family reunification, which makes it harder for potential immigrants without a family sponsor to make it here. That is true. The question at that point becomes, which is more important? Do we think it's more important that an American citizen should be able to eventually bring family members here, or do we think it's more important that someone without a family connection should be able to come here on account of some particular skill set? Reasonable people can disagree on how to answer that question, I suppose.

But originally, we were talking about how family reunification works. Some people seem to be portraying it as a loophole that allows one immigrant to bring a large family with him, increasing the volume and rate of legal immigration. That portrayal is inaccurate.
I suppose. What you really mean by that is my position is right. I suppose. They come to Bloomington alone, graduate and are sent home because?
 
2 differences...1 they probably came here by whatever method was legal at the time and 2, this is the big one, it probably occurred before we had set up our welfare state. Once you do that, you have to have a handle on immigration.
I thought the welfare support was setup to help Cuban exiles. They tended to vote republican while silencing people soft on Castro.
 
So for you it's all about the money, amirite?
Huh? I care about poor Americans who are without job skills and an opportunity. They are stuck on welfare and food stamps, etc. we need to focus on them to give them a hand up so that they can provide. Bring in
The key is "over the years." It is a trickle. It takes years to decades for families from abroad to settle and reunite in America. That's the debate we were originally having.

Now, you bring up a different issue here, which is the fact that most immigration is for purposes of family reunification, which makes it harder for potential immigrants without a family sponsor to make it here. That is true. The question at that point becomes, which is more important? Do we think it's more important that an American citizen should be able to eventually bring family members here, or do we think it's more important that someone without a family connection should be able to come here on account of some particular skill set? Reasonable people can disagree on how to answer that question, I suppose.

But originally, we were talking about how family reunification works. Some people seem to be portraying it as a loophole that allows one immigrant to bring a large family with him, increasing the volume and rate of legal immigration. That portrayal is inaccurate.

The comment was that citizens can bring in their immediate family members but since it takes so long to become a citizen the result was only a trickle. Actually since green card holders can also bring in spouses and unmarried children they wait time is shortened. In the 80’s it may have been a trickle but now there are 3.9 million family members waiting that includes 2.3 million siblings. That is a 4 year backlog so it is hardly a trickle any longer, it’s a flood.

Since the vast majority of people waiting are from Mexico it also exemplifies the need for border security.
 
Huh? I care about poor Americans who are without job skills and an opportunity. They are stuck on welfare and food stamps, etc. we need to focus on them to give them a hand up so that they can provide. Bring in


The comment was that citizens can bring in their immediate family members but since it takes so long to become a citizen the result was only a trickle. Actually since green card holders can also bring in spouses and unmarried children they wait time is shortened. In the 80’s it may have been a trickle but now there are 3.9 million family members waiting that includes 2.3 million siblings. That is a 4 year backlog so it is hardly a trickle any longer, it’s a flood.

Since the vast majority of people waiting are from Mexico it also exemplifies the need for border security.
What part of the word "waiting" is confusing you?
 
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