F1: 2021/22 Season

[Hank Reardon]

iRacing gonna grab the esports market for F1 though I bet

The thing is that Codemaster still has the official partnership and licensing with F1 through 2025, with an option to extend to 2027. iRacing can't even call it's Class A "F1" series...F1. It's called the iRacing Grand Prix Series. That certainly isn't changing.

Back when COVID shut down all the real racing and the pros turned to televised sim-racing, IndyCar and NASCAR ran their events in iRacing, while F1 ran theirs on the Codemasters F1 202x platform due to licensing agreements. So there will be "Grand Prix" racing on iRacing using the Mercedes for sure, on F1 tracks using the F1 schedule. But it won't be called F1.

 

[larsIU]

The thing is that Codemaster still has the official partnership and licensing with F1 through 2025, with an option to extend to 2027. iRacing can't even call it's Class A "F1" series...F1. It's called the iRacing Grand Prix Series. That certainly isn't changing.

Back when COVID shut down all the real racing and the pros turned to televised sim-racing, IndyCar and NASCAR ran their events in iRacing, while F1 ran theirs on the Codemasters F1 202x platform due to licensing agreements. So there will be "Grand Prix" racing on iRacing using the Mercedes for sure, on F1 tracks using the F1 schedule. But it won't be called F1.

Good catch. iRacing used to have quite a robust pro series in their old Williams and McLaren F1 cars. I had figured with the formula change that one of the teams would give their data and allow scanning to iRacing but I surely didn't think it woudl be Merc and that they would consider something for the 2022 car as well.

 

[ce36ei]

Codemasters sold out to EA so this will be the pinnacle of console F1 gaming. It’s all downhill from now.

 

[sglowrider]

For the F1 geeks:

 

[ce36ei]

The Merc has made a huge step. See if RB can answer but if not, it’s over. When Bottas is beating Verstappen with ease you know just how better the Merc is.

 

[larsIU]

The Merc has made a huge step. See if RB can answer but if not, it’s over. When Bottas is beating Verstappen with ease you know just how better the Merc is.

Yeah Merc’s strategy of just blowing motors and somehow staying under the cost cap is hilarious. RB just can’t seem to overcome the Germans. Should just call it the curse of Vettel.

 

[sglowrider]

F1’s return to COTA, Ferrari vs McLaren and more – 5 fascinating storylines ahead of the US GP​

 

[ce36ei]

Another engine for Bottas. And Merc is head and shoulders in 1st this weekend. I have to imagine they’re turning the engines up and living with the consequences. Can’t be touched it looks like.

 

[larsIU]

Another engine for Bottas. And Merc is head and shoulders in 1st this weekend. I have to imagine they’re turning the engines up and living with the consequences. Can’t be touched it looks like.

I think that's the strategy. Saw something on reddit or somewhere where they could take the additional engine penalties every third race or so and, with expecting finishes, run away with both the driver and constructor's championships.

Those wily Germans.

 

[sglowrider]

 

[sglowrider]

 

[sglowrider]

 

[larsIU]

So, um, should Red Bull feel threatened right now. Shirley, Merc aren't going to take a new ICE for every upcoming race. So they should lose some performance in the next race or two?

If not, whoa boy. Had Hamilton started at the front of that race yesterday, he might have lapped the field.

 

[Hank Reardon]

So, um, should Red Bull feel threatened right now. Shirley, Merc aren't going to take a new ICE for every upcoming race. So they should lose some performance in the next race or two?

If not, whoa boy. Had Hamilton started at the front of that race yesterday, he might have lapped the field.

If Mercedes carries that performance to the next three races, I see no way other than a Merc DNF that Hamilton loses this. Whatever they did to Lewis' car has transformed it into something far and away faster than anything else on the track. That was absurd.

Now whether they can run that power unit like that for three more races, I guess we'll see. But if they can, game over.

 

[ce36ei]

They’re just racing in Q3 power mode. It was their only hope. RB should’ve taken another engine when they had the chance and turned their engines up. Not sure they can withstand this Merc charge.

 

[sglowrider]

They’re just racing in Q3 power mode. It was their only hope. RB should’ve taken another engine when they had the chance and turned their engines up. Not sure they can withstand this Merc charge.

Simple -- Now that 'hard racing' is once again allowed by the stewards ie running cars off the track, I am sure we will have some close encounters again in the remaining races.

Max/Sergio can just strategically crash or take out Lewis in one or two races and it will be game over for Lewis.

And I am pretty certain that Whingey Spice has thought of this if not already brought this up with Sergio and Max.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Simple -- Now that 'hard racing' is once again allowed by the stewards ie running cars off the track, I am sure we will have some close encounters again in the remaining races.

Max/Sergio can just strategically crash or take out Lewis in one or two races and it will be game over for Lewis.

And I am pretty certain that Whingey Spice has thought of this if not already brought this up with Sergio and Max.

Toto already said that both Max and Lewis would crash out their opponent if the title was on the line. (Lewis doesn't have that luxury at the moment.) The key here is, with the speed Lewis showed us this weekend will Max ever get that close to Lewis again?

 

[ce36ei]

Jeddah is a 100% power circuit. Max will be lucky to be P3. Abu Dhabi should favor RB I would think. No idea of Qatar.

 

[sglowrider]

Jeddah is a 100% power circuit. Max will be lucky to be P3. Abu Dhabi should favor RB I would think. No idea of Qatar.

Even if Max doesn't win any of the remaining races, he only needs to come in 2nd in all of them. But Lewis has to win two out of three.
So Bottas and Sergio may need to be enforcer or blockers the next few races.

 

[larsIU]

Toto already said that both Max and Lewis would crash out their opponent if the title was on the line. (Lewis doesn't have that luxury at the moment.) The key here is, with the speed Lewis showed us this weekend will Max ever get that close to Lewis again?

Don't forget. There are four Red Bulls out there. But, I don't believe in conspiracies. So, it highly unlikely anybody does anything purposely. At least anybody not named Max.

If Hamilton wins the next race in easy fashion I don't think there's anything Max wouldn't consider. And I wouldn't say that about Hamilton now. He has 7 titles. But when he was after his first......he probably would have as well.

If Hamilton qualifies ahead of Max in each of the next three races (a distinct possibility) then he could just race off into the sunset. But, I don't think the Merc engine is going to maintain its advantage for much longer. They can't blow an engine. It would be game over. They are going to have to turn it down a bit as it gets more miles on it.

However, I'm glad we're having this conversation. F1 was getting quite boring at the top. There is a scenario where they go to the last race tied. Imagine that.

 

[larsIU]

 

[ce36ei]

Could these 2 teams be bigger babies??? 😂 Good grief.
Saw the onboard. Max did a perfect job of defending wide while never showing any steering angle to the right. Late on the brake and input which made him wash wide. No way they can penalize him.

 

[ce36ei]

 

[larsIU]

Could these 2 teams be bigger babies??? 😂 Good grief.
Saw the onboard. Max did a perfect job of defending wide while never showing any steering angle to the right. Late on the brake and input which made him wash wide. No way they can penalize him.

Oh, he should have been penalized. You can't just eff up so bad you push yourself and your opponent off track.

HOWEVER, to penalize him now instead of handing him the 5s penalty during the race seems dumb.

 

[larsIU]

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the problem with Karun's take is that if they let all this go, then all any driver has to do is brake way too late and stay on the inside. There would never be another overtake on teh outside. If you eliminate 50% of the options for overtaking the racing will get even more boring. Or we'll just have wrecks.

I don't think there will be a penalty but I do think the FIA is going to go to Max and tell him there will be the next time.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Don't forget. There are four Red Bulls out there. But, I don't believe in conspiracies. So, it highly unlikely anybody does anything purposely. At least anybody not named Max.

If Hamilton wins the next race in easy fashion I don't think there's anything Max wouldn't consider. And I wouldn't say that about Hamilton now. He has 7 titles. But when he was after his first......he probably would have as well.

If Hamilton qualifies ahead of Max in each of the next three races (a distinct possibility) then he could just race off into the sunset. But, I don't think the Merc engine is going to maintain its advantage for much longer. They can't blow an engine. It would be game over. They are going to have to turn it down a bit as it gets more miles on it.

However, I'm glad we're having this conversation. F1 was getting quite boring at the top. There is a scenario where they go to the last race tied. Imagine that.

I think there's a difference between purposely punting, and taking the attitude of "I'm either coming out of this corner ahead, or neither of us is coming out of this corner." I don't think that either driver would purposely wreck the other driver, as in, "I'm going wreck this M'Fker." But I absolutely think the either Hamilton or Verstappen, if leading the championship Abu Dhabi, was faced with going wheel to wheel into a corner with the other driver and either lifting and getting passed, or staying on the throttle and playing chicken all the way into the barrier...they'd both run the other into the barrier before they let the other driver past. No question about it. Yes, Hamilton would absolutely do that. Just like Max.

 

[Hank Reardon]

the problem with Karun's take is that if they let all this go, then all any driver has to do is brake way too late and stay on the inside. There would never be another overtake on teh outside. If you eliminate 50% of the options for overtaking the racing will get even more boring. Or we'll just have wrecks.

I don't think there will be a penalty but I do think the FIA is going to go to Max and tell him there will be the next time.

There might be. The way they could justify it is based on the additional footage that was unavailable during the race. That would suck for Max though, since a 5 second penalty during the race would have been inconsequential, where a grid penalty next race would be pretty bad.

 

[larsIU]

I think there's a difference between purposely punting, and taking the attitude of "I'm either coming out of this corner ahead, or neither of us is coming out of this corner." I don't think that either driver would purposely wreck the other driver, as in, "I'm going wreck this M'Fker." But I absolutely think the either Hamilton or Verstappen, if leading the championship Abu Dhabi, was faced with going wheel to wheel into a corner with the other driver and either lifting and getting passed, or staying on the throttle and playing chicken all the way into the barrier...they'd both run the other into the barrier before they let the other driver past. No question about it. Yes, Hamilton would absolutely do that. Just like Max.

Probably. Having seen the onboard I don't think Max steered into Hamilton. He just cocked up his defense of the corner.

My point really is that they need to penalize Max. FIA got luck that Hamilton (and the stupid fast Merc) could avoid the imminent wreck and pass later on in the race. Imagine if Hamilton hadn't been able to pass later on though. Imagine if this "move" by Verstappen decided the race.

If you can't keep your car on the track (setting aside the "leaving space" arguments entirely) during a defending maneuver, then you deserve a penalty.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Probably. Having seen the onboard I don't think Max steered into Hamilton. He just cocked up his defense of the corner.

My point really is that they need to penalize Max. FIA got luck that Hamilton (and the stupid fast Merc) could avoid the imminent wreck and pass later on in the race. Imagine if Hamilton hadn't been able to pass later on though. Imagine if this "move" by Verstappen decided the race.

If you can't keep your car on the track (setting aside the "leaving space" arguments entirely) during a defending maneuver, then you deserve a penalty.

He didn't steer into him, but he didn't try very hard to make the corner either. ;-/ I could easily see a penalty inbound here. One way they might justify not giving one if if they determine that Hamilton wasn't making the corner either, which is entirely possible. They have access to an awful lot of telemetry info. I suppose if they have data that shows Hamilton's speed, etc, when he went off with Max was far faster than any successful navigation of that corner at other points in the race they could claim that he was going to end up wide anyway. Who knows.

I predict a three place grid penalty, which I believe is the equivalent to a 5 second penalty in the race.

 

[larsIU]

He didn't steer into him, but he didn't try very hard to make the corner either. ;-/ I could easily see a penalty inbound here. One way they might justify not giving one if if they determine that Hamilton wasn't making the corner either, which is entirely possible. They have access to an awful lot of telemetry info. I suppose if they have data that shows Hamilton's speed, etc, when he went off with Max was far faster than any successful navigation of that corner at other points in the race they could claim that he was going to end up wide anyway. Who knows.

I predict a three place grid penalty, which I believe is the equivalent to a 5 second penalty in the race.

The FIA stewardship is a shit show. But to be fair, it's been a LONG time since they've had to really make a decision that had huge consequences for the top 3

What, Canada 2019?

 

[ce36ei]

Qatar looks like follow the leader after looking into the circuit. A penalty would be devastating to Max. I really hope there’s no retroactive action. I feel once the moment has passed it’s over. They knew what the optics were and decided to rule the way in which they did.

 

[sglowrider]

Don't forget. There are four Red Bulls out there. But, I don't believe in conspiracies. So, it highly unlikely anybody does anything purposely. At least anybody not named Max.

If Hamilton wins the next race in easy fashion I don't think there's anything Max wouldn't consider. And I wouldn't say that about Hamilton now. He has 7 titles. But when he was after his first......he probably would have as well.

If Hamilton qualifies ahead of Max in each of the next three races (a distinct possibility) then he could just race off into the sunset. But, I don't think the Merc engine is going to maintain its advantage for much longer. They can't blow an engine. It would be game over. They are going to have to turn it down a bit as it gets more miles on it.

However, I'm glad we're having this conversation. F1 was getting quite boring at the top. There is a scenario where they go to the last race tied. Imagine that.

Past is prologue.

Renault Formula One crash controversy​

Schumacher v Hill - 1994 Australian Grand Prix​

 

[larsIU]

Past is prologue.

Renault Formula One crash controversy​

Schumacher v Hill - 1994 Australian Grand Prix​

On Crashgate Renault have been so inept for years but with Piquet….you ask him to cheat and then tell him you’re not keeping him for the next season. WTF did you think he was gonna do? Not spill the beans? Hahahaha

 

[ce36ei]

Toto said they’re breaking out the better engine for Jeddah. So this sucker is gonna be tied going to the last race. 😄

 

[Hank Reardon]

Toto said they’re breaking out the better engine for Jeddah. So this sucker is gonna be tied going to the last race. 😄

That's assuming that Max finishes second in Jeddah. And remember in the end Max wins a tie. So as long as Max finishes second in Jeddah he's effectively ahead, meaning that Lewis would need to finish ahead of Max (and in the points) in Abu Dhabi. If they enter tied and both crash out, Max wins.

In the end, assuming no DNF's, all Lewis needs to do is win both races. Considering the tracks, and the mysterious rocketship car he's suddenly driving, I'd say that's pretty likely. Only a DNF on Lewis' part will save Max now.

 

[larsIU]

That's assuming that Max finishes second in Jeddah. And remember in the end Max wins a tie. So as long as Max finishes second in Jeddah he's effectively ahead, meaning that Lewis would need to finish ahead of Max (and in the points) in Abu Dhabi. If they enter tied and both crash out, Max wins.

In the end, assuming no DNF's, all Lewis needs to do is win both races. Considering the tracks, and the mysterious rocketship car he's suddenly driving, I'd say that's pretty likely. Only a DNF on Lewis' part will save Max now.

Even worse. What if Bottas pulls his shit together and Merc go 1-2 in Jeddah. Max behind going into the last race? I’d almost feel sorry for him at that point.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Even worse. What if Bottas pulls his shit together and Merc go 1-2 in Jeddah. Max behind going into the last race? I’d almost feel sorry for him at that point.

I’m not really a Max fan so I won’t really feel sorry for him, but I do see Mercedes rather like an evil empire, so I can’t really pull for them. And I do suspect they’re like bending some rules down the stretch here. That ridiculous speed domination comes from somewhere. I’m pretty tired of Hamilton, to be honest.

 

[larsIU]

I’m not really a Max fan so I won’t really feel sorry for him, but I do see Mercedes rather like an evil empire, so I can’t really pull for them. And I do suspect they’re like bending some rules down the stretch here. That ridiculous speed domination comes from somewhere. I’m pretty tired of Hamilton, to be honest.

They are the patriots of F1. You gotta respect the brilliance. If you listen to Reddit Merc figured something out at Silverstone relative to the engine/aero balance. I suspect they’ve continued refining that edge into something more akin to last years car. Which is scary for the next few years. Remember there’s no engine change until 2026.

 

[sglowrider]

Even worse. What if Bottas pulls his shit together and Merc go 1-2 in Jeddah. Max behind going into the last race? I’d almost feel sorry for him at that point.

But Bottas has been near useless this season as a teammate. Lets Max or Checko pass easily.

 

[sglowrider]

I’m not really a Max fan so I won’t really feel sorry for him, but I do see Mercedes rather like an evil empire, so I can’t really pull for them. And I do suspect they’re like bending some rules down the stretch here. That ridiculous speed domination comes from somewhere. I’m pretty tired of Hamilton, to be honest.

if VW gets involved with F1 and Red Bull then the Mercedes team will be the underdog going forward. And a role reversal with VW/RB being the evil empire.