ESPNU Brutalizing Brohm and Purdue

[oldcougar77]

The completion percentage and low interceptions are helped tremendously by the 1 and 2 yard passes on third and long. Ramsey really likes to make the safe, easy, and conservative pass. The kind that stall drives and lead to a change of possession.

I don't know if it's by design as part of the offense or if it's just Ramsey being Ramsey, but it's definitely a thing.

I don't need to be a coach on the sidelines or a fan in the stands to notice that.

Defenses tend to take the sticks away on 3rd and long. I shake my head on gamedays when the armchair coaches on this board and in the stands are screaming about throwing underneath in that situation.

For anyone who ever coached football, the concept is the same on every third down - take the best play available. Running to the sticks often means running right into tight coverage. That leaves two options - throw over the top (which requires time to throw and receivers getting some separation), or throwing short and giving the underneath receiver an opportunity to make the first down after the catch. If you are forced to check into that play, it helps to have a dynamic slot receiver or a back or a tight end who can make that play. We have done that some (and more often when we had a really good receiving tight end like Bolser, and more recently when Philyor was healthy) but not often enough. That's where we really miss a guy like Rondale Moore who can single-handedly get that play for you or draw extra coverage and get you another option. It is why I also very much prefer a QB who can really run like ARE or Kellen Lewis.

My bigger concern is that we get in that situation (3rd and 6+) far too often. I have thought for the last two years that our 2nd down play-calling has been a big problem. Good football teams have a lot of 3rd and short which makes a world of difference in terms of being able to stress a defense as opposed to being much more predictable. I especially hate our tendency to run wide or throw that wide-receiver bubble on 2nd down. If we had wideouts who were better blockers (a huge problem in my book ) it might be a better play.

I'm not saying Ramsey doesn't fail to see open receivers down the field on occasion, he certainly does. So do all quarterbacks. I think the bigger problem is that he is forced into that checkdown by circumstances more than he should be.

 

[Knewthiswascoming]

Defenses tend to take the sticks away on 3rd and long. I shake my head on gamedays when the armchair coaches on this board and in the stands are screaming about throwing underneath in that situation.

For anyone who ever coached football, the concept is the same on every third down - take the best play available. Running to the sticks often means running right into tight coverage. That leaves two options - throw over the top (which requires time to throw and receivers getting some separation), or throwing short and giving the underneath receiver an opportunity to make the first down after the catch. If you are forced to check into that play, it helps to have a dynamic slot receiver or a back or a tight end who can make that play. We have done that some (and more often when we had a really good receiving tight end like Bolser, and more recently when Philyor was healthy) but not often enough. That's where we really miss a guy like Rondale Moore who can single-handedly get that play for you or draw extra coverage and get you another option. It is why I also very much prefer a QB who can really run like ARE or Kellen Lewis.

My bigger concern is that we get in that situation (3rd and 6+) far too often. I have thought for the last two years that our 2nd down play-calling has been a big problem. Good football teams have a lot of 3rd and short which makes a world of difference in terms of being able to stress a defense as opposed to being much more predictable. I especially hate our tendency to run wide or throw that wide-receiver bubble on 2nd down. If we had wideouts who were better blockers (a huge problem in my book ) it might be a better play.

I'm not saying Ramsey doesn't fail to see open receivers down the field on occasion, he certainly does. So do all quarterbacks. I think the bigger problem is that he is forced into that checkdown by circumstances more than he should be.

Do you not believe that Ramsey has some ownership of the first and second down failings that create third down 'situations'?

 

[oldcougar77]

Do you not believe that Ramsey has some ownership of the first and second down failings that create third down 'situations'?

That all depends on whether those failings are of his own execution. If they are the result of bad calls or the failure to execute on the part of one (or more) of the other ten guys on the field, then no. It's easy to target the quarterback for every play that goes bad and for a lot of armchair coaches, that's the go-to reaction.

 

[Knewthiswascoming]

That all depends on whether those failings are of his own execution. If they are the result of bad calls or the failure to execute on the part of one (or more) of the other ten guys on the field, then no. It's easy to target the quarterback for every play that goes bad and for a lot of armchair coaches, that's the go-to reaction.

While I agree that the quarterback can be an easy target, absolving him of any responsibility for the first and second down shortcomings isn't realistic and isn't supported by what occurred on the field.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

While I agree that the quarterback can be an easy target, absolving him of any responsibility for the first and second down shortcomings isn't realistic and isn't supported by what occurred on the field.

That generalization is not helpful ... or accurate.

Look at one example- let’s see how Ramsey/IU compared to the Great Brohmbardi and Purdue vis-à-vis 1st and second down.

IU made 282 first downs.
Purdue made 267.

IU converted 190 first or second downs into a first down.
Purdue converted 193 first or seconds into a first.

Hmmm...

IU converted 78 third downs into a first.
Purdue converted 65 thirds.

IU converted 14 fourth downs.
Purdue converted 9.

OSU got 350 first downs, converting 256 1st or 2nds, 82 3rds, and 12 4ths. That’s where we need to get. But Ramsey moved the ball fine. His shortcoming is arm strength - on the short red zone field, or when the receivers are covered well, I.e., the window is small, he cant gun it in there with velocity. (He can throw it 40, 50, fine too. It’s velocity, not length.

 

[Knewthiswascoming]

That generalization is not helpful ... or accurate.

Look at one example- let’s see how Ramsey/IU compared to the Great Brohmbardi and Purdue vis-à-vis 1st and second down.

IU made 282 first downs.
Purdue made 267.

IU converted 190 first or second downs into a first down.
Purdue converted 193 first or seconds into a first.

Hmmm...

IU converted 78 third downs into a first.
Purdue converted 65 thirds.

IU converted 14 fourth downs.
Purdue converted 9.

OSU got 350 first downs, converting 256 1st or 2nds, 82 3rds, and 12 4ths. That’s where we need to get. But Ramsey moved the ball fine. His shortcoming is arm strength - on the short red zone field, or when the receivers are covered well, I.e., the window is small, he cant gun it in there with velocity. (He can throw it 40, 50, fine too. It’s velocity, not length.

What you're missing in the comparison to Purdue is their ability to go down the field for bigger, explosion plays compared to IU's inability to do same. It makes the first down comparison not really valid. The evidence is in the stats, which show that despite a relatively equal number of attempts and completions, Purdue threw for 70 more yards a game, scored 9 more TDs via the air, and averaged over a yard and a half more per attempt than Indiana (third in the BT v. 10th). So, third downs weren't the issue for them that they were for IU.

No one is arguing that Ramsey has a strong arm, either, only that the third down problems that he's blamed for aren't entirely his fault, just as he's not absolved of responsibility for the first and second down failings.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

What you're missing in the comparison to Purdue is their ability to go down the field for bigger, explosion plays compared to IU's inability to do same. It makes the first down comparison not really valid. The evidence is in the stats, which show that despite a relatively equal number of attempts and completions, Purdue threw for 70 more yards a game, scored 9 more TDs via the air, and averaged over a yard and a half more per attempt than Indiana (third in the BT v. 10th). So, third downs weren't the issue for them that they were for IU.

No one is arguing that Ramsey has a strong arm, either, only that the third down problems that he's blamed for aren't entirely his fault, just as he's not absolved of responsibility for the first and second down failings.

His post was specifically about IU on third downs because Ramsey allegedly did poorly on first and second.

I agree that Purdue that had more passing yards (500+)
They also had 28 TD passes to our 20

But that was not his question.

 

[DANC]

Everyone that thinks they know something about quarterback play sat that guys stare down their receiver. If that is the case with Ramsey then why is he play in front of guy that everyone ackn has a stronger arm and runs the ball better? Also how does he have as a high a completion percentage and not outrageously high interceptions or passes broken up. I guess those of you sitting in stands see it better than coaches in press box on sidelines or the players on the field. Also how much do you want your quarterback running without a true backup. Yes maybe Taylor might be spectacular but had limited time at quarterback position. Also iMO o don’t think Ramsey reads the option very well. He is much more effective as a scrambler when he pulls the ball down and runs with it.

I guess you didn't watch the Bucket game where his eyes never left his receiver after the snap and the defender had plenty of time to jump the route and intercept the ball.

Why does he have such a high percentage of completions? Because he takes no risk and he throws dink passes. It's not that hard to figure out, even for a former football player.

I didn't even mention running the option. I said we should run more DESIGNED QB run plays. Ramsey has looked good all year on those, and yet we rarely ran them. If you're going to play scared and take away an effective offensive weapon, why play the game? It's up to the coaches to fill out a roster. If they don't have player who can play, that's on them - it's called coaching.

As for why Ramsey over Penix? You tell me - you aren't the first one to ask that question.

 

[vesuvius13]

A rational post. It is sad that us IU fans only hope is to hope that Purdue gets worse. That's our salvation? Allen has improved our team albeit at a slow rate. His recruiting has improved every year but overnight Brohm has changed theirs. Sooo, the question is will Allen be able to continue steady improvement and have us consistently winning 7 games? Is that our goal? If not then round up the $ and go Big.

A big part of that problem is the IU President too millions of dollars from BTN money.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

His post was specifically about IU on third downs because Ramsey allegedly did poorly on first and second.

I agree that Purdue that had more passing yards (500+)
They also had 28 TD passes to our 20

But that was not his question.

Y’all getting trolled by the newest version of Ordfan brahs.

 

[Bobbyforever]

IU is recruiting well. Why don’t you notice that?

I did notice that. I said the improved recruiting needs to lead to wins.

 

[Bobbyforever]

You didn’t answer my questions at all. I didn’t ask about IU.

There is nothing to respond to. I don’t know how much Brohm will be paid. Neither do you. In any ask I a, more interested in us, not them.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Y’all getting trolled by the newest version of Ordfan brahs.

Ordy is busy right now. He has two open user names on GBI posting exclusively about me.

Love it.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Y’all getting trolled by the newest version of Ordfan brahs.

Always gotta point out his stupid to him at least once before Version xx.x gets banned.

The worst thing you can do for a dumb person is to let them think they’re smart. It’s cruel and assures thier destruction by the natural order. Signed, Darwin.

 

[Sope Creek]

Always gotta point out his stupid to him at least once before Version xx.x gets banned.

The worst thing you can do for a dumb person is to let them think they’re smart. It’s cruel and assures thier destruction by the natural order. Signed, Darwin.

You're gonna be busy . . .

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

I guess you didn't watch the Bucket game where his eyes never left his receiver after the snap and the defender had plenty of time to jump the route and intercept the ball.

Why does he have such a high percentage of completions? Because he takes no risk and he throws dink passes. It's not that hard to figure out, even for a former football player.

I didn't even mention running the option. I said we should run more DESIGNED QB run plays. Ramsey has looked good all year on those, and yet we rarely ran them. If you're going to play scared and take away an effective offensive weapon, why play the game? It's up to the coaches to fill out a roster. If they don't have player who can play, that's on them - it's called coaching.

As for why Ramsey over Penix? You tell me - you aren't the first one to ask that question.

Yes I did watch the Bucket Game and did not see a quarterback staring down a receiver and an inordinate amount of pass breakups. Also why would you run the quarterback

I guess you didn't watch the Bucket game where his eyes never left his receiver after the snap and the defender had plenty of time to jump the route and intercept the ball.

Why does he have such a high percentage of completions? Because he takes no risk and he throws dink passes. It's not that hard to figure out, even for a former football player.

I didn't even mention running the option. I said we should run more DESIGNED QB run plays. Ramsey has looked good all year on those, and yet we rarely ran them. If you're going to play scared and take away an effective offensive weapon, why play the game? It's up to the coaches to fill out a roster. If they don't have player who can play, that's on them - it's called coaching.

As for why Ramsey over Penix? You tell me - you aren't the first one to ask that question.

Why call quarterback runs when you have 6’2 240 running back

 

[DANC]

Yes I did watch the Bucket Game and did not see a quarterback staring down a receiver and an inordinate amount of pass breakups. Also why would you run the quarterback

Why call quarterback runs when you have 6’2 240 running back

Go back and watch it again. Seriously. On that interception? I watched him the entire time and never took his eyes off the receiver.

I was there live. Were you? If you watched it on TV, you might not have had the full effect.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Go back and watch it again. Seriously. On that interception? I watched him the entire time and never took his eyes off the receiver.

I was there live. Were you? If you watched it on TV, you might not have had the full effect.

Nope could not make it. So it happened on one int and so that makes it so. Why did it not happen over and over again. Where were your seats that you could see who he was staring at?
I love this we have a weak armed quarterback. He estates down his receivers. He can’t read defenses. He is an average runner. He played behind a MAC level offensive line. And had a mediocre offensive coordinator. Yet we had more first downs than the genius $ 6 million man. Who is considered an offensive genius.

 

[DANC]

Nope could not make it. So it happened on one int and so that makes it so. Why did it not happen over and over again. Where were your seats that you could see who he was staring at?
I love this we have a weak armed quarterback. He estates down his receivers. He can’t read defenses. He is an average runner. He played behind a MAC level offensive line. And had a mediocre offensive coordinator. Yet we had more first downs than the genius $ 6 million man. Who is considered an offensive genius.

It wasn't just on the one INT - it was all game. And you are in no position to argue otherwise, since you weren't watching it live.

My seats were where I could see the play. Your seat was what the camera wanted you to see.

Oooooh, we had more first downs than Purdue. I can't believe the Music Bowl didn't pick us over them.

Stats really are for losers.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

It wasn't just on the one INT - it was all game. And you are in no position to argue otherwise, since you weren't watching it live.

My seats were where I could see the play. Your seat was what the camera wanted you to see.

Oooooh, we had more first downs than Purdue. I can't believe the Music Bowl didn't pick us over them.

Stats really are for losers.

You choose one play out of the whole season and so that makes it fact. The other thing that amazes me is how you can see the eyes of the quarterback from the stands.
Cliches are for wannabe Quarterback Coaches.

 

[DANC]

You choose one play out of the whole season and so that makes it fact. The other thing that amazes me is how you can see the eyes of the quarterback from the stands.
Cliches are for wannabe Quarterback Coaches.

Well, I can sure see which way his helmet was looking.

Do you think he can see where his helmet's not pointing?

At this point, you're just an annoyance that I don't choose to deal with. So have the last word or whatever, or claim you see what you can't possibly see from your vantage point.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Well, I can sure see which way his helmet was looking.

Do you think he can see where his helmet's not pointing?

At this point, you're just an annoyance that I don't choose to deal with. So have the last word or whatever, or claim you see what you can't possibly see from your vantage point.

Well again if you look at when the majority of Ramsey’s interceptions occurred they were in the Red Zone where the windows are smaller. Or in desperation time when he had to make throws he usually would not. If a quarterback stares down his receivers as you claim he does he would have more ints or pas breakups because of a dB knows he does this and throws short they would drive extra hard on the ball. Also he spreads the ball around throwing to multiple times to multiple receivers.