Maybe Durr will allow IU to redshirt Duncomb next year. I do think LD is going to be a good one, but will not play much next season.
Durr to IU!
- Thread starter wawasee
- Start date
It's good to have options for multiple gametime circumstances. Durr gives Coach Woodson another option in a game of matchups...
Looks to me like he just built himself a TEAM that's designed to compete for a Big Ten Championship and have a shot at even bigger game...
It’s weird that some can’t understand it’s not about height. Those guys where mobile bigs. Not stiffs. Cody was great at the pick n roll. 4 out will utilize that. He was also great at the dunker spot.
What Woodson/IU are doing isn’t close to the UK OAD model. Good God be more insufferable.
we'll see. I don't think either will develop a "good outside shot" in one year; serviceable might be more realistic to hope for. I also think despite what type of offense CMW prefers, he's going to be to somewhat dependent on his 5 best and matchups. I'll be glad to take a bet on them not playing together 1 minute!
Of course he got the better of PU's bigs, he's an AA caliber player, but they also gave him fits and wore him down, where he could have been more effective and we as a team could have gotten better more efficient shots. Remind me again which team actually WON those games? To win, TJD should be outscoring their bigs, not shooting 3-9 vs PU and giving up 22 and 20 or 3-13 as he did vs IL. See the pattern: TJD largely struggled against bigger posts, so MD will allow him to be fresher by not having to guard a bigger more physical center as much. Was it you saying PU fudged TW's height? Guess what, so does IU with both Trayce and Race I believe. Trayce I think is actually 6-8 and Race 6-7. I think often MD will be the 3rd post, but I think he'll be used more and also play with Race and Trayce some vs bigger centers. I think 10-15 minutes is probably in the range for him, but I can't say because I've not seen him play, just some highlights. And again, something you have continually ignored: DEPTH... what happens if Trayce or Race go down with an injury or foul trouble? I also think he was brought in for the year after next when we'll likely lose both Trayce and Race. What I am confident of is that this staff would not have brought him to ride the pine. That scholly was too valuable for that.
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TJD doesn’t struggle against big guys like you claim. He’s had some poor games over his career, but they have been against both small and big teams. He’s also dominated small and big teams as well.
34 against Oturu
25 against FSU’s 7’1” player
25 against Trevion Williams
23 against Micah Potter and Nate Reavers
23 against Luka Garza
Should I keep going? You probably don’t even realize Race guarded the opposing team’s big the majority of the time.
If Trayce or Race get hurt, we have top 60 Logan Duncomb to fill in for them.
You said “Woodson wouldn’t bring him in to ride the pine”, yet you don’t seem to understand that we have 13 scholarship players and only 9 will get serious minutes. 4 players won’t be playing very much or at all. Durr is one of those players.
Johnson/Lander
Stewart/RP
Bates/Galloway(limited minutes)
Kopp/Geronimo
TJD/Race
Deep Reserves:
Leal
Duncomb
Durr
Howso? I truly am not following your narrative on this, and I don't think anyone else is either.
There are fewer mercenaries in the Middle East.
Listen, no one is saying it’s illegal or unethical, but it is what IU’s fanbase has historically thumbed its collective noses at.
He’s simply pointing out the hypocrisy of some of our fans. There’s no way you would know or understand it, though.
First of all, it's been established that your claim of the "fanbase" complaining about it is baseless: it's been a handful (if you call 1-3 a handful) of folks. And, it's a totally different environment with the transfer portal, than it's been in years past. Like it or not, every team is going to have to adapt. It's like trying to make an issue out of "long jump shots" after the 3 pt line was installed.
I think both Race and Trayce are actually pretty good defenders... for their size. And no, I wouldn't agree that Race was the primary defender on the other teams post, but he did take on more of that responsibility last year after proving he could do it the year before. What that can't factor in though is the toll it takes on TJD guarding a guy he's giving up 20+ lbs and several inches to each game. It tires you out, so it is responsible for many of his misses and moreso for fewer shots. When we play "big" posts, I'd expect Durr's minutes will jump and he might even jump ahead of Race in those instances. It's not like Race has proven to be a huge offensive threat, so D is really more important imo for the backup post. And again, something you've never even acknowledged: in case of injury... This gives us a facet our roster didn't have previously and how much Durr plays the following year is strictly up to him and his development. The starting C position the year after next, is wide open and there for his taking.
Race was the primary defender on opposing team’s bigs last year and the year before. That isn’t debatable unless you simply didn’t watch the games.
I acknowledged your hypothetical injury situation. Logan Duncomb is the emergency backup center if Durr wasn’t on the team. I don’t see a big difference between freshman Duncomb and 4th year Durr.
You can’t just list TJDs scoring totals and say he dominated. There is a problem with a number of the games you listed. The FSU 7’1” center was only matched up against TDJ about 15 minutes of that game when he wasn’t in foul trouble. The other two guys matching up on TJD were 6’9” and 6’8”. Yes TJD scored 25 on Williams. He (or IU) also gave up 22 and 10 to Williams. Several of TJDs games you listed were losses and it had a lot to do with interior defense and rebounding (particularly offensive rebounds).
TJD is great and I love him but lets not pretend like dealing with size both defensively and on the boards hasn’t been a problem for IU.
I agree that Race pulled a lot of the workload against big centers and that is probably a good idea to keep TJD out of foul trouble.
I personally do not think Duncomb comes in ready to contribute 15 minutes a game. I could be wrong but he doesn’t look that polished offensively or defensively yet in the highlights I have watched. Duncomb looks to have a lot of talent but Durr has been guarding and rebounding against big men for 3 years now.
I also do not think Kopp and Geronimo are getting major minutes at the 4 unless both get much better defensively, rebounding, and offensively can take advantage of a bigger, slower guy on them. IMO the 4 spot is Race’s and Durr will see 15 minutes per game as a reserve at center.
The poster i was replying to listed scoring totals of bigs TJD “struggled” against. I responded in kind. Some of those games were losses because the team was trash and so was the coach.
Durr has been guarding mid major big men for 3 years. He is very poor offensively. TJD and Race will get the bulk of the minutes at the 5.
Kopp and Geronimo will be our 4s most of the time. That’s just how it is going to be with the way Woodson wants to play. We finally have a coach that understands modern basketball is played with smaller, more versatile players rather than huge bulky centers.
Have you ever seen Durr play, even for a minute? How about Kopp, where you actually focused on him?
True enough. But IU has struggled against size both defensively and on the boards and that should be apparent to anyone watching.
IMO neither Kopp nor Geronimo address that and neither are good enough to make up the difference on the offensive end.
Agree to disagree about Race. I doubt he returned to IU to be a 15 minute per game backup center. I also doubt Durr transferred to IU to get less than 5 minutes per game.
Modern basketball can be won many ways. If Race proves he can spread the floor (I believe an article said he shot 40% from 3’s in high school), he would make a much more ideal modern 4 than Kopp or Geronimo.
I have seen Kopp play a lot as he has been in the Big Ten for 3 years. I’ve never seen Durr play and neither has anyone else on this forum. His stats against mid major competition don’t lie though.
Race and TJD will never work together in a 4 out 1 in offense. Neither are going to stretch the floor. People often cite Race’s high school three point shooting, however that was over 4 years ago. We have 3 years of data that suggests he isn’t a good shooter, and counting on him to become one seems silly.
Whether Kopp or Geronimo are up to the challenge or not is irrelevant as they are going to be our primary 4s. I would have rather used Durr’s scholarship to pick up a better 4 (ie. Keion Brooks). It goes back to what I tried to explain to the other poster. Only 9 players will get meaningful minutes on next year’s team. Do you honestly think Durr is in the top 9? If so, who do you have as the 4 players behind him in the rotation?
No worries, we have Coach Trojanhorse, who is going to teleport our team out of the B10 and clone Baylors smaller but stout and athletic posts and 6'5" 250lb PF, so we don't have to play B10 ball anymore.
CMW has done a great job of remaking our roster and adding Durr gives us a puzzle piece we didn't have. Dunscomb looks promising and can help... in future years. In the game videos and highlights I've seen, he doesn't look ready to me to play much next year. Far more likely that we'll get Durr in a B10 strength/conditioning program and get him a bit lighter and leaner and I think he's going to find minutes at the 5 vs bigger opponents, allow either TJD or RT to play out on the floor if they prove they can, provide depth if one gets hurt or has foul trouble and have the option of lots more minutes the following year as they work Dunscomb in. They didn't need to add him, so I believe they saw something there they felt could help our team and I certainly see that niche based on the last couple of years.
We will see next year. I have seen nothing from them to indicate they can play big minutes at the 4 in any offense.
I believe Race guards the combination of bigs and smalls better than both. Race can handle the ball and pass well. Race rebounds well. I believe the gap between Race and an ideal modern 4 is 10 times smaller than the gap between Kopp/Geronimo and ideal modern 4.
As for Durr. Yes I believe he is in the rotation. I certainly don’t see him with less than 10 minutes per game and I believe it’s possible he plays as much as 15 minutes per game if he provides some much needed rim protection.
I think you are going to be pretty disappointed when Kopp and Geronimo get the majority of minutes at the 4.
Who are the 4 players you have behind Durr in the rotation?
So, you’ve barely seen Kopp, you’ve never seen Durr, yet you’re here to tell us how they’ll be used, as well as their likely effectiveness? Makes perfect sense . . .
That’s the big if. Race, TJD or/and both will have to prove in games they can stretch the floor. I’m sure both are putting up tons of shots as we speak. Kopp is more likely to be a 4 than Geronimo. With modern offenses the 4 must hit shots regardless. If not then you aren’t winning many games. Crean won a ton of games by having bad defenses. I think at this point the outside scoring outweighs the liability of a two post set.
I won’t be disappointed at all. It will mean that either Geronimo or Kopp (my guess would be Geronimo since he has a rare combination of strength, speed and athleticism) has made a jump I didn’t think they could and we will be a better team for it. I will be happy.
I have said this in other forums but I predict
Starters
Johnson
Parker
Kopp
Race
TJD
First Four
Rob
Geronimo
Bates
Durr
Lander if improved could take some of Robs minutes and be a first four as well. Also Leal/Galloway could see Bates minutes if he isn’t ready right away.
Agree that Race has to prove he will take and make threes. Also agree that offensively Kopp provides more than Geronimo.
Unfortunately Kopp or whoever would have to score 15+ per game to be better offensively than Race and make up for the worse defense and rebounding that not having him on the floor creates. I don’t see them averaging that but I could be wrong.
Well after that roster breakdown, we are just going to have to agree to disagree haha. We aren’t even close in how we view the roster, so we would just be going in circles lol.
Durr’s #s for his best games last season. (note: games vs Wichita State, Temple and Cincinnati, which is good competition)
Michael Durr 7’0” 255
13pts - 13 rebs-2blks vs Wichita St
11pts - 11 rebs vs Temple
18pts - 9rebs vs Wichita State
14pts - 7 rebs vs Houston
11 rebounds. vs Tulsa
4 blocks 7-7 fts vs Temple
9pts - 11 rebs vs Central Florida
6pts - 10 rebs. vs Memphis
8pts - 14rpgs vs Wichita State
14pts - 10rebs vs Cincinnati
14pts - 9rebs. vs Fla Gulf Coast
10pts - 7rebs. vs Virginia Tech
10pts - 7 rebs. vs Rhose Island
Michael Durr 7’0” 255
13pts - 13 rebs-2blks vs Wichita St
11pts - 11 rebs vs Temple
18pts - 9rebs vs Wichita State
14pts - 7 rebs vs Houston
11 rebounds. vs Tulsa
4 blocks 7-7 fts vs Temple
9pts - 11 rebs vs Central Florida
6pts - 10 rebs. vs Memphis
8pts - 14rpgs vs Wichita State
14pts - 10rebs vs Cincinnati
14pts - 9rebs. vs Fla Gulf Coast
10pts - 7rebs. vs Virginia Tech
10pts - 7 rebs. vs Rhose Island
I’m not sure we have to replace 15 points. It’s a style of play. I hope/think the wings and guards will score more than they did last year. Kopp has the skills to play both the 3 and the 4. I would love for TJD to be at the 4 with an outside shot. He has some skill facing the basket. Going to be real interesting for sure.
