I think Painter will leave

[IUbball_lifer]

With their athleticism and ability to shoot the midrange shot (hypothetically, of course), you would think that either X or Gunn should be able to somewhat emulate what JHS did to that drop coverage of Edey from last year.

It probably won't happen, but hypothetically it should work...

Agree. TG and X playing off of pick and roll from whoever Edey is guarding is critical. Need good X for sure.
Should also see Edey’s man with some off ball screens for MM and maybe even Gunn for some jump shots.

 

[kkott]

Edey will get away with the following, like he does every single game...illegal screens, pushing and moving people to get position, and then offensive fouls when he turns and slams his shoulder and elbows in to the defender and pushes them back off their stance...and then plenty of over the backs on rebounds.

What can't happen is IU's bigs getting called for similar things. That's what happened to TJD last year...thankfully it didn't cost us.

But officials should have some awareness about things like this, and if Edey is going to be allowed to play how he does, the IU bigs should get the same leeway. I think, for the most part, officials do have this general awareness and understanding...and its why Purdue fans, and Painter, are always belly aching about Edey not getting calls. Its because there would literally be a foul, both ways, on most possessions.

it really is unfathomable how few fouls he gets called for given how physical he is. Like I said, last game: 30/20 and 1 PF. How do you play physical enough to get 20 rebounds and get called for 1 PF? Might be Painter's greatest coaching achievement: the lobbying job he did with B10 officials on not calling fouls on Zach.

 

[BoilerN]

Edey will get away with the following, like he does every single game...illegal screens, pushing and moving people to get position, and then offensive fouls when he turns and slams his shoulder and elbows in to the defender and pushes them back off their stance...and then plenty of over the backs on rebounds.

What can't happen is IU's bigs getting called for similar things. That's what happened to TJD last year...thankfully it didn't cost us.

But officials should have some awareness about things like this, and if Edey is going to be allowed to play how he does, the IU bigs should get the same leeway. I think, for the most part, officials do have this general awareness and understanding...and its why Purdue fans, and Painter, are always belly aching about Edey not getting calls. Its because there would literally be a foul, both ways, on most possessions.

Ya. Reality is, there are tons of missed fouls both ways. He’s tough to officiate

 

[kkott]

Ya. Reality is, there are tons of missed fouls both ways. He’s tough to officiate

and maybe that's it, maybe the refs give him extra latitude because he gets banged on so much. It just pisses me off because I have to watch Reanu get in foul trouble every 2-3 games and Edey rarely does. I know he was in foul trouble for much of the IL game, but has he ever fouled out of a game? This year or last?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

it really is unfathomable how few fouls he gets called for given how physical he is. Like I said, last game: 30/20 and 1 PF. How do you play physical enough to get 20 rebounds and get called for 1 PF? Might be Painter's greatest coaching achievement: the lobbying job he did with B10 officials on not calling fouls on Zach.

All you can do is tip your cap to the con and try to work around it.

 

[IUNorth]

Ya. Reality is, there are tons of missed fouls both ways. He’s tough to officiate

There obviously is...its why Painter would be wise to shut his yap about it. Edey and Purdue benefit from it, quite a lot more than they get hurt by it. And its not even close. For every missed Edey turn around because someone grabbed his arm, there are at least that many, usually more, offensive fouls on his part getting position, and then just turning in to people on his turnarounds and jump hooks. Things that look like, and actually are, just normal basketball movements, because of his size and what it does to his defender...they're techically offensive fouls.

A normal offensive movement is to put one of your legs in to your defender, then spin and seal, posting up. That movement doesn't often move defenders off their spot, for most people. But when Edey does it, both the initial leg anchoring, AND the spin and seal, move the defender. That's illegal, and its a foul. And then when most people turn in to their defenders, and use their shoulder and off arm to bump and protect the ball...again, for most post players it doesn't actually move the defender off their spot as much as it "stuns" them to not be able to react and jump and challenge as well. When Edey does it, he actually pushes the defender back...again, offensive foul by the rules.

I'm o.k. with them not calling it, as long as they don't call Malik or Kelel creating space for themselves on the other end. And/or as long as they don't call IU guys for fouling him when they recover from being moved off their spot to contest his shots.

 

[kkott]

There obviously is...its why Painter would be wise to shut his yap about it. Edey and Purdue benefit from it, quite a lot more than they get hurt by it. And its not even close. For every missed Edey turn around because someone grabbed his arm, there are at least that many, usually more, offensive fouls on his part getting position, and then just turning in to people on his turnarounds and jump hooks. Things that look like, and actually are, just normal basketball movements, because of his size and what it does to his defender...they're techically offensive fouls.

A normal offensive movement is to put one of your legs in to your defender, then spin and seal, posting up. That movement doesn't often move defenders off their spot, for most people. But when Edey does it, both the initial leg anchoring, AND the spin and seal, move the defender. That's illegal, and its a foul. And then when most people turn in to their defenders, and use their shoulder and off arm to bump and protect the ball...again, for most post players it doesn't actually move the defender off their spot as much as it "stuns" them to not be able to react and jump and challenge as well. When Edey does it, he actually pushes the defender back...again, offensive foul by the rules.

I'm o.k. with them not calling it, as long as they don't call Malik or Kelel creating space for themselves on the other end. And/or as long as they don't call IU guys for fouling him when they recover from being moved off their spot to contest his shots.

When I watch PU I feel like Edey should foul out just on moving screens and over the backs, let alone on regular offensive or defensive fouls. I honestly think the refs have discussed how to officiate him and have agreed to some sort of rules, otherwise he'd get in foul trouble at least somewhat regularly. I'd be willing to bet in the last 2 years he's had more games with 0 or 1 foul than 4-5 fouls.

 

[BoilerN]

and maybe that's it, maybe the refs give him extra latitude because he gets banged on so much. It just pisses me off because I have to watch Reanu get in foul trouble every 2-3 games and Edey rarely does. I know he was in foul trouble for much of the IL game, but has he ever fouled out of a game? This year or last?

Illinois and Nebraska got him in trouble. He probably would have fouled out of both if he didn’t get super conservative with his play. Basically, don’t give the refs a reason to call the 5th.

 

[BoilerN]

There obviously is...its why Painter would be wise to shut his yap about it. Edey and Purdue benefit from it, quite a lot more than they get hurt by it. And its not even close. For every missed Edey turn around because someone grabbed his arm, there are at least that many, usually more, offensive fouls on his part getting position, and then just turning in to people on his turnarounds and jump hooks. Things that look like, and actually are, just normal basketball movements, because of his size and what it does to his defender...they're techically offensive fouls.

A normal offensive movement is to put one of your legs in to your defender, then spin and seal, posting up. That movement doesn't often move defenders off their spot, for most people. But when Edey does it, both the initial leg anchoring, AND the spin and seal, move the defender. That's illegal, and its a foul. And then when most people turn in to their defenders, and use their shoulder and off arm to bump and protect the ball...again, for most post players it doesn't actually move the defender off their spot as much as it "stuns" them to not be able to react and jump and challenge as well. When Edey does it, he actually pushes the defender back...again, offensive foul by the rules.

I'm o.k. with them not calling it, as long as they don't call Malik or Kelel creating space for themselves on the other end. And/or as long as they don't call IU guys for fouling him when they recover from being moved off their spot to contest his shots.

I agree with everything you said regarding basketball moves. If you do call it, then he’s getting punished for being big, which is what makes it tough. On the other end, I agree. The only time it should be called is when they actually push into him to move him. Defensively, the first move on Edey is almost always an arm bar or 2 hands, which, by law is a foul, but without it, he’d literally be unstoppable due to size.

 

[Bill4411]

I don't understand why the slightest of contact on a 3-point shooter is a foul and, whereas you can absolutely mug someone under the basket and it isn't one? It really makes no sense other than its what fans or coaches want to see as the outcome.

 

[rsomm]

A huge key tonight is how Edey is officiated.

Pu clearly has an advantage at the five, IU at the four, Toss up at the three and wash at the one and two with pu having better shooting and IU better defenders.

Edy gets his 25+ and the others and the whistle decide the game. 17k loud fans don’t hurt us either.

Per Pomeroy, Purdue has an adjusted defense #22 playing the #1 schedule, IU playing the #59 schedule has a adjusted defense #72. Purdue plays good defense! The adjusted offense is even more farther apart, with Purdue #2 and IU #117, again with IUs schedule!

 

[IUNorth]

I agree with everything you said regarding basketball moves. If you do call it, then he’s getting punished for being big, which is what makes it tough. On the other end, I agree. The only time it should be called is when they actually push into him to move him. Defensively, the first move on Edey is almost always an arm bar or 2 hands, which, by law is a foul, but without it, he’d literally be unstoppable due to size.

Definitely goes both ways. He'd be unstoppable because he'd be moving his defender because of his size, which is illegal. The only defense against that for the defender is to try to root out with their leg, and/or to double hand and arm bar...just to hold their position...also illegal. Painter and Purdue fans focus on the arm bars and pushes in the back...what they forget, I think, is Edey is initiating it all just by being him, and posting up. If it were ALL called by the letter of the law, it'd be rare to get to the arm bars and pushes in the back, because those are often reactive moves by the defenders who are are overwhelmed and pushed back by his size (from normal post up moves).

Its pretty rare that Edey walks in to post up position, first gets pushed by the defender, then starts his posting up movements (That's what IU's post players do, unfortunately). Painter runs too much stuff with movement and action for that to happen all that often. A large portion of Edey's post movements come immediately after he's set a screen for someone, who catch the ball and immediatlely look for Edey who's actively sealing his man after that screening action.

They'll run it a ton tonight, I'm sure. Smith or Loyer will kick to the wing and cut down under the basket...Edey will set a down screen for Loyer or Smith, usually Smith. They'll run tight off it, possibly even curl to the middle off it. Then if Edey's defender stays hugging Edey, he'll drop his leg in to them, and spin and seal, and Smith will bring the ball back and dump it down to Edey...OR, if Edey's man hedges at all, Smith will lob it up to Edey at the rim.

This is an example of a way they get Edey the ball in the post, and basically every time, Edey will have initiated the post contact, and fouled his defender...causing them to have to foul him back.

 

[IUNorth]

Per Pomeroy, Purdue has an adjusted defense #22 playing the #1 schedule, IU playing the #59 schedule has a adjusted defense #72. Purdue plays good defense! The adjusted offense is even more farther apart, with Purdue #2 and IU #117, again with IUs schedule!

All these metrics were in play last year as well. Probably not quite the same spread, but Purdue was near the top in both, and IU wasn't. We all know what happened last year.

I do think its less likely this year, because of the wider gap you're referencing...but the last 2 years have established that IU outperforms the metrics against Purdue, for whatever reason.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I don't understand why the slightest of contact on a 3-point shooter is a foul and, whereas you can absolutely mug someone under the basket and it isn't one? It really makes no sense other than its what fans or coaches want to see as the outcome.

The BIG has played rugby under the basket for at least as long as I have been a fan. I have been out of AAU coachig for almost a decade but this was never allowed at the JrH/HS level

 

[Courtsensetwo]

All these metrics were in play last year as well. Probably not quite the same spread, but Purdue was near the top in both, and IU wasn't. We all know what happened last year.

I do think its less likely this year, because of the wider gap you're referencing...but the last 2 years have established that IU outperforms the metrics against Purdue, for whatever reason.

and most of their defensive numbers are not driven by their back court which is all I referenced previously.

 

[ams66]

he’s getting punished for being big

It's on him to know where his body is and what it's doing. Being "big" isn't an excuse.

 

[kkott]

3 fouls vs NB isn't really foul trouble and he still played 30 minutes which is about his average I would guess. So, I'm guessing you think he hasn't fouled out of a game in the last 2 years, or maybe ever?

 

[rsomm]

All these metrics were in play last year as well. Probably not quite the same spread, but Purdue was near the top in both, and IU wasn't. We all know what happened last year.

I do think its less likely this year, because of the wider gap you're referencing...but the last 2 years have established that IU outperforms the metrics against Purdue, for whatever reason.

IU last year was in the 30s , not in the #90's. IU was picked to win the BT last year!

 

[BoilerN]

Definitely goes both ways. He'd be unstoppable because he'd be moving his defender because of his size, which is illegal. The only defense against that for the defender is to try to root out with their leg, and/or to double hand and arm bar...just to hold their position...also illegal. Painter and Purdue fans focus on the arm bars and pushes in the back...what they forget, I think, is Edey is initiating it all just by being him, and posting up. If it were ALL called by the letter of the law, it'd be rare to get to the arm bars and pushes in the back, because those are often reactive moves by the defenders who are are overwhelmed and pushed back by his size (from normal post up moves).

Its pretty rare that Edey walks in to post up position, first gets pushed by the defender, then starts his posting up movements (That's what IU's post players do, unfortunately). Painter runs too much stuff with movement and action for that to happen all that often. A large portion of Edey's post movements come immediately after he's set a screen for someone, who catch the ball and immediatlely look for Edey who's actively sealing his man after that screening action.

They'll run it a ton tonight, I'm sure. Smith or Loyer will kick to the wing and cut down under the basket...Edey will set a down screen for Loyer or Smith, usually Smith. They'll run tight off it, possibly even curl to the middle off it. Then if Edey's defender stays hugging Edey, he'll drop his leg in to them, and spin and seal, and Smith will bring the ball back and dump it down to Edey...OR, if Edey's man hedges at all, Smith will lob it up to Edey at the rim.

This is an example of a way they get Edey the ball in the post, and basically every time, Edey will have initiated the post contact, and fouled his defender...causing them to have to foul him back.

Ya. It is seen as pretty one sided regardless of the side you are on. It’s why it’s impossible to have this exact discussion typically. Thanks for the great back and forth. Glad I’m not the only one that sees it this way

 

[BoilerN]

It's on him to know where his body is and what it's doing. Being "big" isn't an excuse.

You deleted out 95% of my post and pulled the few words you wanted to create a narrative of what I said. Don’t do that.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

IU last year was in the 30s , not in the #90's. IU was picked to win the BT last year!

Had they not lost three starters to significant injury time including their best player and best defender/ballhandler they might have

 

[Bill4411]

The BIG has played rugby under the basket for at least as long as I have been a fan. I have been out of AAU coachig for almost a decade but this was never allowed at the JrH/HS level

Perhaps this is one of the reasons the Big Ten has been doing poorly in the post season?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Perhaps this is one of the reasons the Big Ten has been doing poorly in the post season?

Absofreakinglutely

 

[Coach Geez]

Per Pomeroy, Purdue has an adjusted defense #22 playing the #1 schedule, IU playing the #59 schedule has an adjusted defense #72. Purdue plays good defense! The adjusted offense is even more farther apart, with Purdue #2 and IU #117, again with IUs schedule!

What were FDU’s metrics?

 

[uncleter]

Definitely goes both ways. He'd be unstoppable because he'd be moving his defender because of his size, which is illegal. The only defense against that for the defender is to try to root out with their leg, and/or to double hand and arm bar...just to hold their position...also illegal. Painter and Purdue fans focus on the arm bars and pushes in the back...what they forget, I think, is Edey is initiating it all just by being him, and posting up. If it were ALL called by the letter of the law, it'd be rare to get to the arm bars and pushes in the back, because those are often reactive moves by the defenders who are are overwhelmed and pushed back by his size (from normal post up moves).

Its pretty rare that Edey walks in to post up position, first gets pushed by the defender, then starts his posting up movements (That's what IU's post players do, unfortunately). Painter runs too much stuff with movement and action for that to happen all that often. A large portion of Edey's post movements come immediately after he's set a screen for someone, who catch the ball and immediatlely look for Edey who's actively sealing his man after that screening action.

They'll run it a ton tonight, I'm sure. Smith or Loyer will kick to the wing and cut down under the basket...Edey will set a down screen for Loyer or Smith, usually Smith. They'll run tight off it, possibly even curl to the middle off it. Then if Edey's defender stays hugging Edey, he'll drop his leg in to them, and spin and seal, and Smith will bring the ball back and dump it down to Edey...OR, if Edey's man hedges at all, Smith will lob it up to Edey at the rim.

This is an example of a way they get Edey the ball in the post, and basically every time, Edey will have initiated the post contact, and fouled his defender...causing them to have to foul him back.

So you and all of the IU staff know that. How, as Coach IU North, do you defend it? Zone?