Durr to IU!

iubud

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Now what have our guards done against Purdue the last 3-4 years? TJD had a 25 point outburst against Purdue in a game this year. Durr is a similar player in both skill set and size to Joey Brunk who was a non-factor in our two losses the year before.
Brunk was a non factor in many games because he was slow and not particularly strong for his size. I also didn't see that high effort play Archie told us about from practice. Maybe Holtmann can do something with him. I don't think he will help them much.
 

rocketo

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I like the pick-up a lot. That said, I don't understand it from the kid's point of view. He was getting 25 mpg at USF last year. At IU, it looks more like 10-15, and maybe closer to the 10.

Woodson is impressing as a recruiter..............and I like the amount of turn-over when you're talking about an underachieving team...

In: Durr, Kopp, Johnson, Stewart, Bates
Out: Brunk, Hunter, Franklin, Durham

Durr v. Brunk: Would be pick 'em, but Joey has big durability issues.
Kopp v. Hunter: Pick 'em
Bates v. Franklin: I liked Franklin, But Bates is a borderline 5* talent with a Franklin-like attitude.
Stewart v. Durham: Advantage Stewart. Better shooter, better ball-handler.
Johnson: Even if Rob goes the portal route, it would be advantage Johnson.
I’d say Kopp is a good upgrade. The only loss that stings to me is Franklin.
 

HoosierJimbo89

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Baylor had 4 post players of those only 2 played minutes and they platooned at the 5, with the starter getting 15 minutes, The rest of the lineup was generally 6'5 and under, except when Mayer came in at 4 but he wasn't a post.

You counted a 6'8 180 player in your total ... lol.
I never called said Baylor players "post" players, rather "size." Nonetheless, if you ever want to tell me you wouldn't take Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, etc. on a roster, then I will call you a moron.

6-10 Thamba played 15 minutes a game, 6-8 JTT played 20 minutes a game, 6'9 Mayer played 16 minutes a game. You can't deny that Baylor had "size" on their roster.

P.S. I haven't touched a basketball in years. However, I'd bet my life savings I would still whoop your ass up and down the court.
 

HoosierJimbo89

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You should probably do some more research on who contributed on their team. They went small ball the majority of the time.

I don’t think you are going to see Durr or Duncomb getting big minutes next year.
If you are saying they played small at every position, then you should do some research yourself.
 

TrojanFan004

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If you are saying they played small at every position, then you should do some research yourself.
They played 6’9” and 6’8” on the front line the majority of the time. So did we. So did Purdue. So did Ohio State. Baylor was not a huge team. They were extremely athletic.

You lost all credibility in this conversation when you cited their 7’ player as a reason Baylor won the championship.
 

HoosierJimbo89

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They played 6’9” and 6’8” on the front line the majority of the time. So did we. So did Purdue. So did Ohio State. Baylor was not a huge team. They were extremely athletic.

You lost all credibility in this conversation when you cited their 7’ player as a reason Baylor won the championship.
So, Baylor didn't have the aforementioned players of size on their roster? I never said the 7'0 player was a major contributor, only that he was on the roster. Go tell Scott Drew he needs to get rid of him.

I'm a little confused as to what hill you are fighting for and why you feel the need to take on everybody in this thread.
 

TrojanFan004

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So, Baylor didn't have the aforementioned players of size on their roster? I never said the 7'0 player was a major contributor, only that he was on the roster. Go tell Scott Drew he needs to get rid of him.

I'm a little confused as to what hill you are fighting for and why you feel the need to take on everybody in this thread.
You tried to use Baylor as an example for your argument that you need a lot of size to be successful or win a championship. The 7’ player you mentioned didn’t contribute at all to that championship run. The next tallest player was 6’10” and only played 15 minutes a game.

Baylor won the championship by going small ball and switching everything. That’s exactly what Woody wants to do here. If you are hoping we get massive players all the time, you will be very disappointed as this isn’t the 80s.
 

HoosierJimbo89

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You tried to use Baylor as an example for your argument that you need a lot of size to be successful or win a championship. The 7’ player you mentioned didn’t contribute at all to that championship run. The next tallest player was 6’10” and only played 15 minutes a game.

Baylor won the championship by going small ball and switching everything. That’s exactly what Woody wants to do here. If you are hoping we get massive players all the time, you will be very disappointed as this isn’t the 80s.
I never said you need "a lot of size" to be successful or win a championship. I did say the Big Ten is a big, physical league and you have to have some size. I did say that having size can be an advantage: that doesn't necessarily mean the size has to be a traditional post player. I did say that I think IU needs some size.

I understand that Baylor was very athletic, very good at shooting, very good at creating their own shot, and went with 4 perimeter/"smaller" players and a post. At no point did I say that I was opposed to this type of lineup or a dribble drive/4 out, 1 in offense.
 

TrojanFan004

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I never said you need "a lot of size" to be successful or win a championship. I did say the Big Ten is a big, physical league and you have to have some size. I did say that having size can be an advantage: that doesn't necessarily mean the size has to be a traditional post player. I did say that I think IU needs some size.

I understand that Baylor was very athletic, very good at shooting, very good at creating their own shot, and went with 4 perimeter/"smaller" players and a post. At no point did I say that I was opposed to this type of lineup or a dribble drive/4 out, 1 in offense.
No you really don’t need a lot of size in the Big Ten. This isn’t the 80s. Players like Edey have trouble defending smaller players. So even though they have a small advantage on offense, they have a big disadvantage on defense.
 

HoosierJimbo89

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No you really don’t need a lot of size in the Big Ten. This isn’t the 80s. Players like Edey have trouble defending smaller players. So even though they have a small advantage on offense, they have a big disadvantage on defense.
Once again, I never said you need "a lot of size." I said you need "some size." I did notice that Edey didn't play much in the North Texas game, and there was a reason for it.

If IU wants to get to the point where they have 4 guys on the court that are traditionally spots 1-3 that are really quick and athletic, good ball handlers, good shooters, good penetrators that can create their own shot, and able to guard multiple positions, you won't hear any complaints out of me.
 
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TrojanFan004

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Once again, I never said you need "a lot of size." I said you need "some size." I did notice that Edey didn't play much in the North Texas game, and there was a reason for it.

If IU wants to get to the point where they have 4 guys on the court that are traditionally spots 1-3 that are really quick and athletic, good ball handlers, good shooters, good penetrators that can create their own shot, and able to guard multiple positions, you won't hear any complaints out of me.
We have some size. We had some size last year too.
 

TrojanFan004

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I'd prefer some 6'10 to 7'0 size. If you disagree that IU needs this type of size on the roster, agree to disagree. Go tell Woody and staff how to do their jobs.
6’10 to 7’ guys are fine if they are really good. I’d rather have TJD than any other center in the country and he’s only 6’9”. Obviously a Cody Zeller would be great, but there aren’t many of those.
 

kkott

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Size Queen ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Big guys in bball never hurt. You guys point to Baylor, but we have no one on our squad like their bigs, and only have 2 functional/experienced post players. Yes, we may play a 4 out 1 in, and yes, we may be able to get by with TJD and RT if LD can give us anything, but that's a big unkown and TJD nor RT are anything like Baylors bigs in terms of attitude and playing style. Those guys were physical and dawgs. We had a scholly open, and I think that was our greatest need remaining so I'm glad they attempted to fill it. If TJD or RT were to get injured or in foul trouble in a crucial game, you'll be the first one saying how dumb it was not to have adequate depth, and it would have been with an open scholly and players who could help.
 
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EarlTubbs

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IU has certainly helped itself this off season using the transfer portal to its full advantage. Many teams in the past have built tournament teams using this model. Iowa State and Nevada come to mind. Time will tell whether this is a short term fix or IU’s business model going forward.

For some IU alums who have denigrated other schools for outsourcing their basketball teams, this must be difficult to swallow. However, IU fans accepted Keith Smart and Dean Garrett in ‘87 when alums were saying IU would never resort to that business model, and we never hear anyone sully that banner or even call those guys jucos anymore. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and I think IU alums recognize and are accepting of that.
 
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kkott

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6’10 to 7’ guys are fine if they are really good. I’d rather have TJD than any other center in the country and he’s only 6’9”. Obviously a Cody Zeller would be great, but there aren’t many of those.
and if TJD or RT get hurt or are in foul trouble? That's what depth is about. I've done this for a myriad of other teams, but Baylor has 4 guys 6'9" or bigger on their roster, plus 2 guys 6'8" and Vital who's 6'5" and 250 and plays a post role quite effectively. On next year's roster we had 2 guys listed at 6'9" or bigger: TJD and LD. You can argue all you want that some of Baylor's size are wings, and some are developing, but we're allowed to do that too!
 
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kkott

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IU has certainly helped itself this off season using the transfer portal to its full advantage. Many teams in the past have built tournament teams using this model. Iowa State and Nevada come to mind. Time will tell whether this is a short term fix or IU’s business model going forward.

For some IU alums who have denigrated other schools for outsourcing their basketball teams, this must be difficult to swallow. However, IU fans accepted Keith Smart and Dean Garrett in ‘87 when alums were saying IU would never resort to that business model, and we never hear anyone sully that banner or even call those guys jucos anymore. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and I think IU alums recognize and are accepting of that.
I'm not sure what you mean by "outsourcing" their teams, but I've never heard that as a complaint by any reasonable # of fans. Two things: 1) The transfer portal, in it's current configuration, never existed before so to ignore it and keep doing biz as usual would be incredibly short-sighted. And, 2) No one refers to Smart or Garrett as JUCO's because they aren't, they transferred to IU and are Hoosiers for life!
 
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Victorbmyboy

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You should probably do some more research on who contributed on their team. They went small ball the majority of the time.

I don’t think you are going to see Durr or Duncomb getting big minutes next year.
That’s when they killed the Zags. They couldn’t stay in front of them. Their leading rebounder is 6’5”. I think people forget about length. Length to me is as important as height.
 
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Seyton

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I like the pick-up a lot. That said, I don't understand it from the kid's point of view. He was getting 25 mpg at USF last year. At IU, it looks more like 10-15, and maybe closer to the 10.

Woodson is impressing as a recruiter..............and I like the amount of turn-over when you're talking about an underachieving team...

In: Durr, Kopp, Johnson, Stewart, Bates
Out: Brunk, Hunter, Franklin, Durham

Durr v. Brunk: Would be pick 'em, but Joey has big durability issues.
Kopp v. Hunter: Pick 'em
Bates v. Franklin: I liked Franklin, But Bates is a borderline 5* talent with a Franklin-like attitude.
Stewart v. Durham: Advantage Stewart. Better shooter, better ball-handler.
Johnson: Even if Rob goes the portal route, it would be advantage Johnson.
I think Kopp is a huge upgrade over Hunter.
 

Seyton

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I never called said Baylor players "post" players, rather "size." Nonetheless, if you ever want to tell me you wouldn't take Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, etc. on a roster, then I will call you a moron.

6-10 Thamba played 15 minutes a game, 6-8 JTT played 20 minutes a game, 6'9 Mayer played 16 minutes a game. You can't deny that Baylor had "size" on their roster.

P.S. I haven't touched a basketball in years. However, I'd bet my life savings I would still whoop your ass up and down the court.
Don't do it! Never, ever, discount the rust and lack of conditioning!!
 

Seyton

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You guys are missing the point with all this size talk. We haven't had good players - period. First (finally?) get good players then decide if you need bigger good players.

Durr will only matter if he's good. Or serviceable. My feeling is that I would rather have passed in hopes of a more talented player, but whatever. Let's roll.

(and don't Bloom me about stars. IU leads the league in getting useless four and five star players)
 

EarlTubbs

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I'm not sure what you mean by "outsourcing" their teams, but I've never heard that as a complaint by any reasonable # of fans. Two things: 1) The transfer portal, in it's current configuration, never existed before so to ignore it and keep doing biz as usual would be incredibly short-sighted. And, 2) No one refers to Smart or Garrett as JUCO's because they aren't, they transferred to IU and are Hoosiers for life!
I picked up the term “outsourcing” from reading here. It has been frequently used in a derogatory manner to diminish other programs’ successes. I haven’t seen it used anywhere else.
 

Coach Geez

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I picked up the term “outsourcing” from reading here. It has been frequently used in a derogatory manner to diminish other programs’ successes. I haven’t seen it used anywhere else.
Lol, clearly explains a lot. You spend too much time on the IU boards and not enough on the PU boards. Haven't seen a more pompous fan base in regards to the transfer market when it comes to Purdue.

"Painter prefers the get old stay, stay old approach, doesn't work in the transfer market"

"Don't want a guy who didn't want to be at Purdue in the first place"

"Painter is honest when he sells recruits, why mess up team chemistry with an outside?"

Take the high road on this one and STFU.
 

Big Red Crimson Buffalo

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I like the pick-up a lot. That said, I don't understand it from the kid's point of view. He was getting 25 mpg at USF last year. At IU, it looks more like 10-15, and maybe closer to the 10.

Woodson is impressing as a recruiter..............and I like the amount of turn-over when you're talking about an underachieving team...

In: Durr, Kopp, Johnson, Stewart, Bates
Out: Brunk, Hunter, Franklin, Durham

Durr v. Brunk: Would be pick 'em, but Joey has big durability issues.
Kopp v. Hunter: Pick 'em
Bates v. Franklin: I liked Franklin, But Bates is a borderline 5* talent with a Franklin-like attitude.
Stewart v. Durham: Advantage Stewart. Better shooter, better ball-handler.
Johnson: Even if Rob goes the portal route, it would be advantage Johnson.
I disagree on Kopp vs. Hunter.

Kopp gives us much more consistency than Hunter ever could. The injury played a role in why Hunter was never the same and lost all his confidence.
 
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EarlTubbs

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Lol, clearly explains a lot. You spend too much time on the IU boards and not enough on the PU boards. Haven't seen a more pompous fan base in regards to the transfer market when it comes to Purdue.

"Painter prefers the get old stay, stay old approach, doesn't work in the transfer market"

"Don't want a guy who didn't want to be at Purdue in the first place"

"Painter is honest when he sells recruits, why mess up team chemistry with an outside?"

Take the high road on this one and STFU.
Many teams will fill needs through the portal. Big difference between that and what IU has done. I don’t have a problem with it at all.
 

Birnk403

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I'm not sure what you mean by "outsourcing" their teams, but I've never heard that as a complaint by any reasonable # of fans. Two things: 1) The transfer portal, in it's current configuration, never existed before so to ignore it and keep doing biz as usual would be incredibly short-sighted. And, 2) No one refers to Smart or Garrett as JUCO's because they aren't, they transferred to IU and are Hoosiers for life!
Smart and Garrett were both jucos, and there were more than a few questions / concerns expressed among the fan base when BK elected to go that route. He had tremendous credibility so he wasn’t questioned, but there were a number of fans who thought we were crossing some threshold that we never imagined we’d have to cross.
 
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EarlTubbs

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Smart and Garrett were both jucos, and there were more than a few questions / concerns expressed among the fan base when BK elected to go that route. He had tremendous credibility so he wasn’t questioned, but there were a number of fans who thought we were crossing some threshold that we never imagined we’d have to cross.
That’s the way I remember it. The fanbase was very vocal in its anti-juco position until it wasn’t anymore. It’s not much different than what we’re seeing today. The criticisms of a few months ago are today’s standard practices.
 

Tru2Irish

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I like the pick-up a lot. That said, I don't understand it from the kid's point of view. He was getting 25 mpg at USF last year. At IU, it looks more like 10-15, and maybe closer to the 10.

Woodson is impressing as a recruiter..............and I like the amount of turn-over when you're talking about an underachieving team...

In: Durr, Kopp, Johnson, Stewart, Bates
Out: Brunk, Hunter, Franklin, Durham

Durr v. Brunk: Would be pick 'em, but Joey has big durability issues.
Kopp v. Hunter: Pick 'em
Bates v. Franklin: I liked Franklin, But Bates is a borderline 5* talent with a Franklin-like attitude.
Stewart v. Durham: Advantage Stewart. Better shooter, better ball-handler.
Johnson: Even if Rob goes the portal route, it would be advantage Johnson.
Disagree on Durr is even with Brunk. Brunk was a defensive liabilty ,especially on help defense. Kopp is way better than Hunter and that's not a knock on Hunter. Just think The health issue has affected Hunter from where he was at at the HS level to now. While Franklin will get better at UVA,Bates has talent level that Franklin is nowhere near. Agree with Parker andJohnson. Agree to disagree agreeably.
 
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Tru2Irish

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IU needs to get Jalen Washington, a big like the center from Ohio,and a shooter to go with Gunn for next class.Filipowski would be a nice Mike Dunleavy type of player too.
 
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TrojanFan004

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and if TJD or RT get hurt or are in foul trouble? That's what depth is about. I've done this for a myriad of other teams, but Baylor has 4 guys 6'9" or bigger on their roster, plus 2 guys 6'8" and Vital who's 6'5" and 250 and plays a post role quite effectively. On next year's roster we had 2 guys listed at 6'9" or bigger: TJD and LD. You can argue all you want that some of Baylor's size are wings, and some are developing, but we're allowed to do that too!
I’m not sure what you don’t understand. I’m fine with adding size. I don’t think adding a player strictly because they are tall is a good idea though. That’s what Tom Crean did with Jeremiah April and Tim Priller.

I would have had no issue had we added a player like Onu. He would have been more than just a warm body on the bench.
 
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TrojanFan004

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You guys are missing the point with all this size talk. We haven't had good players - period. First (finally?) get good players then decide if you need bigger good players.

Durr will only matter if he's good. Or serviceable. My feeling is that I would rather have passed in hopes of a more talented player, but whatever. Let's roll.

(and don't Bloom me about stars. IU leads the league in getting useless four and five star players)
Exactly my point!!
 
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Courtsensetwo

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IU has certainly helped itself this off season using the transfer portal to its full advantage. Many teams in the past have built tournament teams using this model. Iowa State and Nevada come to mind. Time will tell whether this is a short term fix or IU’s business model going forward.

For some IU alums who have denigrated other schools for outsourcing their basketball teams, this must be difficult to swallow. However, IU fans accepted Keith Smart and Dean Garrett in ‘87 when alums were saying IU would never resort to that business model, and we never hear anyone sully that banner or even call those guys jucos anymore. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and I think IU alums recognize and are accepting of that.
As I am the the only alum here that has referred to another school "outsourcing" their program, I will assume this was aimed at me. Ky has outsourced their program to mercenaries with little connection to the fans or the university and has done so year after year. It is their model...at least for now.

What IU has done is mange the coaching transition with the use of the portal which frankly came at a fortuitous time for us. There was going to be roster churn one way or the other.

While I anticipate the portal will become a tool for all programs going forward, there is zero objective comparison here to KY's business model. So no, it is not "difficult to swallow".

Hope this helps.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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Disagree on Durr is even with Brunk. Brunk was a defensive liabilty ,especially on help defense. Kopp is way better than Hunter and that's not a knock on Hunter. Just think The health issue has affected Hunter from where he was at at the HS level to now. While Franklin will get better at UVA,Bates has talent level that Franklin is nowhere near. Agree with Parker andJohnson. Agree to disagree agreeably.
The two players are generally (different but) equal when healthy. Would have liked to see brunk stay and be healthy but that didn't happen. Durr is a good solution for that loss.
 

Birnk403

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That’s the way I remember it. The fanbase was very vocal in its anti-juco position until it wasn’t anymore. It’s not much different than what we’re seeing today. The criticisms of a few months ago are today’s standard practices.
You are exactly right, and BK was again shown to be a coaching savant when those two helped lead us to a national championship. In addition, both were solid people and students, which helped to combat the perception that junior colleges only produced academically inferior students and / or those with some sort of checkered history of misbehavior. But many in the fan base expressed concerns over their recruitment, and many in the media questioned whether having to dip into the juco ranks was a sign that BK was slipping (the CC, GG, PG, CR, AH recruiting successes buried that notion, at least for awhile).
 

hookyIU1990

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I picked up the term “outsourcing” from reading here. It has been frequently used in a derogatory manner to diminish other programs’ successes. I haven’t seen it used anywhere else.
Do a search on "outsourcing". I did from Jan '18 ( a year before you joined) to now. 13 results total in the free hoops forum. There's literally one guy using the term and it's all relative to what's going on with cal & kentucky.
 

kkott

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I picked up the term “outsourcing” from reading here. It has been frequently used in a derogatory manner to diminish other programs’ successes. I haven’t seen it used anywhere else.
Then it shouldn't be hard for you to find link(s)? I think you've got a bone to pick and so you're trying to throw the entire fanbase under the bus for a post 1 or maybe two outliers made. I've been on here for years, and have never heard or seen that term before. Are you a UK fan? Yes, many fanbases talk about UK players as "hired guns" or I could see the term "outsourced" being used, but that is a common complaint about UK recruiting practices across many fanbases, not just IU.
 

EarlTubbs

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You are exactly right, and BK was again shown to be a coaching savant when those two helped lead us to a national championship. In addition, both were solid people and students, which helped to combat the perception that junior colleges only produced academically inferior students and / or those with some sort of checkered history of misbehavior. But many in the fan base expressed concerns over their recruitment, and many in the media questioned whether having to dip into the juco ranks was a sign that BK was slipping (the CC, GG, PG, CR, AH recruiting successes buried that notion, at least for awhile).
Spot on. Good call.
 

EarlTubbs

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Then it shouldn't be hard for you to find link(s)? I think you've got a bone to pick and so you're trying to throw the entire fanbase under the bus for a post 1 or maybe two outliers made. I've been on here for years, and have never heard or seen that term before. Are you a UK fan? Yes, many fanbases talk about UK players as "hired guns" or I could see the term "outsourced" being used, but that is a common complaint about UK recruiting practices across many fanbases, not just IU.

I’m not here to get in a pissing match. Many here have criticized other schools for similar practices that Iu now employs. That’s a fact.
 

Coach Geez

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Do a search on "outsourcing". I did from Jan '18 ( a year before you joined) to now. 13 results total in the free hoops forum. There's literally one guy using the term and it's all relative to what's going on with cal & kentucky.
No one has ever accused Earl of being honest.