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cities bracing for black unrest this weekend.

It was nowhere close to a good shoot. The only reason the cop got a pass is because she was breaking in on behalf of Trump and it was the Capitol. The same situation at a meeting of a board of county commissioners and the victim there on behalf of BLM, the cop goes to jail for a long time. Yet the identical considerations would apply.

We all should be sick and tired of the arrogance of the federal government and the monarchial status we bestow on it.
You're wrong.
 
Obviously completely different but was this justified? I say so.

Damn that’s awful. Justified as the guy came at him but damn. Bad luck. My dad’s best friend killed a guy in college. Just a random fight and hit him right in the perfect spot of the nose - drove it into his brain. Guy died and my dad’s buddy was off ever since.
 
Damn that’s awful. Justified as the guy came at him but damn. Bad luck. My dad’s best friend killed a guy in college. Just a random fight and hit him right in the perfect spot of the nose - drove it into his brain. Guy died and my dad’s buddy was off ever since.
For Farva...
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It was nowhere close to a good shoot. The only reason the cop got a pass is because she was breaking in on behalf of Trump and it was the Capitol. The same situation at a meeting of a board of county commissioners and the victim there on behalf of BLM, the cop goes to jail for a long time. Yet the identical considerations would apply.

We all should be sick and tired of the arrogance of the federal government and the monarchial status we bestow on it.
I guess you expected them to wait until Pence or someone else was actually attacked before taking action? That is dumb. You guys never fail to bring BLM into it. Why?

She got exactly what she deserved. Wonder what prompted her to think she was above the law...
 
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I guess you expected them to wait until Pence or someone else was actually attacked before taking action? That is dumb. You guys never fail to bring BLM into it. Why?

She got exactly what she deserved. Wonder what prompted her to think she was above the law...
the posture, perception, and circumstances are totally different. with the cap cop he's hearing shit on his radio, uncertain of what's going on around him, charged with protecting people, and bam the rioters breach the entry so in his defense and in the defense of those he's charged with protecting he acted. uncertain of what storm was coming. contrast that with memphis where the cops had the guy restrained, the threat was subdued, and they proceeded to "have fun" with him.
 
the posture, perception, and circumstances are totally different. with the cap cop he's hearing shit on his radio, uncertain of what's going on around him, charged with protecting people, and bam the rioters breach the entry so in his defense and in the defense of those he's charged with protecting he acted. uncertain of what storm was coming. contrast that with memphis where the cops had the guy restrained, the threat was subdued, and they proceeded to "have fun" with him.
Agree. These guys are being obtuse on purpose to get a rise. No way any intelligent person sees these two situations as comparable.
 
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I only know one thing for certain, had the J6 mob have been trying to storm the White House with the first family inside there would have been a shit ton of dead folks.

We all know what the secret service would have done and it boggles my mind that there is shock that the Capitol police would do the same at the last line of defense before the speaker’s lobby.
 
I guess you expected them to wait until Pence or someone else was actually attacked before taking action? That is dumb. You guys never fail to bring BLM into it. Why?

She got exactly what she deserved. Wonder what prompted her to think she was above the law...
I expected the cop to act like a professional in the use of deadly force. I don’t think he did. I used BLM as an example because the identical circumstances in a different political situation and the cop goes to jail, IMO. This cop getting a pass is all about politics, not about whether his decision to kill the rioter at that time and place was justified.

Im old enough to remember when left wing rioters barricaded the exit doors to a federal courthouse with concrete and then tried to burn the building. When the feds took some rioters into custody without trying to kill them, Nancy Pelosi called the cops “stormtroopers.“. Politics is everything and it’s sickening.
 
ha you and danc are nuts. this isn't a continuum situation. the continuum defines the use of force permitted to gain control of a situation. the tyre case was a step removed from the brave heart torture scenes. the cops had control of the situation and could have easily restrained him. if i were sitting on the jury i'd look askew at a claim they didn't intend to kill him.
I think they might have overcharged with second degree murder, but the rest of your post is the best in the thread.
 
I only know one thing for certain, had the J6 mob have been trying to storm the White House with the first family inside there would have been a shit ton of dead folks.

We all know what the secret service would have done and it boggles my mind that there is shock that the Capitol police would do the same at the last line of defense before the speaker’s lobby.
The secret service didn’t use deadly force when rioters busted through the first line of defense at regular White House in July 2020. The president was taken to the bunker at that time. No loss of life.
 
No the two are not compatible. In the cops use of force continuum a gun is not the same thing as fists and physical restraints. The cop intended to kill Babbit. The cops said they did not intend to kill Tyre.
The cops were afraid for their lives, as they should have been.
 
The 2 Capitol cops standing next to her didn't think she was a threat. They weren't being attacked. A 5'2" unarmed woman - how much of a threat could she pose?

It was just as egregious as the Memphis cops, but you all justify the Babbitt killing because she wouldn't obey the cops. Well, neither did the Memphis kid.

Democrats love 2 tier justice.
It doesn’t matter. The cops on the other side of the door were doing their job and protecting the members of Congress. Their lives were at risk.
 
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Agree. These guys are being obtuse on purpose to get a rise. No way any intelligent person sees these two situations as comparable.
The Memphis cops are properly in the criminal justice system. The Capitol cop wasn't even subject to serious independent review. The cop shot from a concealed position.. Babbitt wasn’t even given a “stop or I’ll shoot warning”.
 
I expected the cop to act like a professional in the use of deadly force. I don’t think he did. I used BLM as an example because the identical circumstances in a different political situation and the cop goes to jail, IMO. This cop getting a pass is all about politics, not about whether his decision to kill the rioter at that time and place was justified.

Im old enough to remember when left wing rioters barricaded the exit doors to a federal courthouse with concrete and then tried to burn the building. When the feds took some rioters into custody without trying to kill them, Nancy Pelosi called the cops “stormtroopers.“. Politics is everything and it’s sickening.
Don't forget that this was the same idiot cop who left his gun by the sink in a public bathroom for like 10 hours straight.
 
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The secret service didn’t use deadly force when rioters busted through the first line of defense at regular White House in July 2020. The president was taken to the bunker at that time. No loss of life.
1) They never entered the White House grounds.
2) They got the shit kicked out of them by the regular police.

It’s just not the same. Babbit isn’t the same. False equivalency may make you feel better, but it’s still false.
 
Don't forget that this was the same idiot cop who left his gun by the sink in a public bathroom for like 10 hours straight.
He was also a lieutenant. The capitol police don’t seem to attract high end people. Probably those who can’t make it a real force. Mostly just gate keepers. But if you give them guns, the same standards need to apply to them.

Capitol police were also supposed to monitor the Pelosi security cameras, they blew that one too.
 
the posture, perception, and circumstances are totally different. with the cap cop he's hearing shit on his radio, uncertain of what's going on around him, charged with protecting people, and bam the rioters breach the entry so in his defense and in the defense of those he's charged with protecting he acted. uncertain of what storm was coming. contrast that with memphis where the cops had the guy restrained, the threat was subdued, and they proceeded to "have fun" with him.
Why do you ignore the Capitol police who are on Babbitt's side of the door? They are doing nothing.

The cop was trigger-happy and should have been prosecuted.
 
No the two are not compatible. In the cops use of force continuum a gun is not the same thing as fists and physical restraints. The cop intended to kill Babbit. The cops said they did not intend to kill Tyre.
The officer in the Babbit case did what he was trained to do.

Do you believe the Memphis police were trained to pull people out of their car physically in a routine traffic stop? Do you believe they were trained to kick the arrestee in the head? To stand him up and hit him with their fists and batons, 5 on one despite the fact he never acted aggressively towards them?
 
Don't forget that this was the same idiot cop who left his gun by the sink in a public bathroom for like 10 hours straight.
What? You are not allowed to question this guy! He was being attacked by a 5'2" unarmed woman! Well, not attacked, but she was attacking the door!
 
The officer in the Babbit case did what he was trained to do.

Do you believe the Memphis police were trained to pull people out of their car physically in a routine traffic stop? Do you believe they were trained to kick the arrestee in the head? To stand him up and hit him with their fists and batons, 5 on one despite the fact he never acted aggressively towards them?
I do not believe the Capitol Police are trained to shoot unarmed women. Sorry - I just don't.
 
Why do you ignore the Capitol police who are on Babbitt's side of the door? They are doing nothing.

The cop was trigger-happy and should have been prosecuted.
They aren’t germane to what the shooter perceived and his trained response to same
 
They aren’t germane to what the shooter perceived and his trained response to same
If your fellow policemen are standing right next to the person you shoot and they're not taking any action, I think it's pretty germane to the argument.
 
I do not believe the Capitol Police are trained to shoot unarmed women. Sorry - I just don't.
She was held accountable for her actions. Officer deserves a medal as no doubt many others backed down from the harm they were planning of our elected officials.

Many other near Darwin Award winners in that bunch.
 
If your fellow policemen are standing right next to the person you shoot and they're not taking any action, I think it's pretty germane to the argument.
What I read, and I’m going by memory, is that the mob was trying to break in, the cop is following on his radio and hearing that cops are down, it’s chaotic, he has an army of misfits and nerds he’s charged to protect, and this idiot breaks in and he shoots. He doesn’t know if she has a gun. A weapon. Whatever. Self defense. Defense of congress reps etc. That fact pattern is nothing like that of the cops in Memphis
 
What I read, and I’m going by memory, is that the mob was trying to break in, the cop is following on his radio and hearing that cops are down, it’s chaotic, he has an army of misfits and nerds he’s charged to protect, and this idiot breaks in and he shoots. He doesn’t know if she has a gun. A weapon. Whatever. Self defense. Defense of congress reps etc. That fact pattern is nothing like that of the cops in Memphis
Well, she didn't break in. I can understand the confusion, but again - 2 cops are standing on her side of the door and doing nothing.

He does know she doesn't have a gun because he can see both her hands on the window.

For God's sake, why didn't he just go to the window and take her hands off it? He gives no warning or attempts to stop her - he just shoots.

He panicked because he was scared. He'd already proved he had no sense of gun security.

I'm not comparing with Memphis - I only brought that up because many here said Babbitt deserves it because she didn't obey the police. Well, neither did the guy in Memphis. I'm showing the hypocrisy that thinking, particularly the weird BCCHoosier, who thinks more should have been killed.
 
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Well, she didn't break in. I can understand the confusion, but again - 2 cops are standing on her side of the door and doing nothing.

He does know she doesn't have a gun because he can see both her hands on the window.

For God's sake, why didn't he just go to the window and take her hands off it? He gives no warning or attempts to stop her - he just shoots.

He panicked because he was scared. He'd already proved he had no sense of gun security.

I'm not comparing with Memphis - I only brought that up because many here said Babbitt deserves it because she didn't obey the police. Well, neither did the guy in Memphis. I'm showing the hypocrisy that thinking, particularly the weird BCCHoosier, who thinks more should have been killed.
One was trying to get away. The threat was over. The other was the aggressor.
 
When Rittenhouse was tried, I agreed when several of the conservatives here said that about the people he shot,"play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

Many of the fair minded conservatives here agree with that with Babbitt. But some suddenly change their minds.

Is breaking through a window in the US Capitol with a mob and try to climb through which would cutoff the retreat route of members still in the balcony a "stupid game"?
 
Well, she didn't break in. I can understand the confusion, but again - 2 cops are standing on her side of the door and doing nothing.

He does know she doesn't have a gun because he can see both her hands on the window.

For God's sake, why didn't he just go to the window and take her hands off it? He gives no warning or attempts to stop her - he just shoots.

He panicked because he was scared. He'd already proved he had no sense of gun security.

I'm not comparing with Memphis - I only brought that up because many here said Babbitt deserves it because she didn't obey the police. Well, neither did the guy in Memphis. I'm showing the hypocrisy that thinking, particularly the weird BCCHoosier, who thinks more should have been killed.
I said they are lucky more weren't. Ask you a question. Let's say you are home with your wife and kids. How many doors and windows are you going to let a mob break through until you protect your family?

What if had already seen this mob attack others and some are chanting hang Dan's wife? So you just try and talk to them? Man you are soft.
 
One was trying to get away. The threat was over. The other was the aggressor.
I just said I'm not arguing the situations are the same - only that the argument for justification of the Babbitt shooting was that she didn't obey police orders. And that anyone who didn't obey police orders was subject to being shot and killed. That's not my argument - that's lunatics like BCCHoosier's argument.

Taking his argument to a logical conclusion, it was perfectly fine for the cops to beat up a guy who was not following their orders. Again, I'm not saying it is, because it isn't - but that's where that argument leads.
 
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When Rittenhouse was tried, I agreed when several of the conservatives here said that about the people he shot,"play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

Many of the fair minded conservatives here agree with that with Babbitt. But some suddenly change their minds.

Is breaking through a window in the US Capitol with a mob and try to climb through which would cutoff the retreat route of members still in the balcony a "stupid game"?
Rittenhouse shot people who were armed. Babbitt was not armed.

C'mon.....
 
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