Anyone else tired of "the sky is falling" and "fire Woodson"
- Thread starter Bippy
- Start date
Yup me too .. St Mary's #1.
Some of that is because of the defense backing off and giving us that shot.
Appreciate the link, hopefully it's true.
My only hole to drill in the boat is our two best offensive options are Race and Trayce so, is this more reflective of having teams focusing on post defense?
Kopp came into the season known as a shooter. Stewart was a shooter that could supposedly get his own shot.
They did it before in their career but, in this offense they became stand still shooters.
Stewart still was near 40% from three.
I guess I can't get over that our offensive efficiency was worse than any Archie Miller season (and not anywhere close to Crean's offensive efficiency)....that was with a roster of supposed two proven shooters and an all American post.
I'm trying really hard to avoid the 'next year is going to suck' because we have some young guys with huge potential curling's but, I can't shake that we missed with this roster, in a down overall year talent wise.
We really needed to play above expectations because Woodson is an unknown.
We didn't do that and that's got me worried.
I didn't see this roster as a rebuild. It would have been if everyone left (particularly Race and Trayce) but that didn't happen.
Same stories we herd about Archie..
Exactly...
Year three he absolutely has to move this team into the tournament...
I mean it is what it is. There are so many things you have to measure and see to determine a coaches worth. On floor results are ultimately the most important but recruiting, player development, program building, growth, leadership, among I am sure a dozen other things that go into a basketball program. It takes years to gather all that data and make an informed decision on the coach and where he is going with the program. It is a full time job that only shows results 4-5 months a year. If you don’t do your do diligence then you end up firing a Tom Izzo. There is a reason programs almost never fire a coach after a year or two.
So then in year 5 you fire him if no tourney or give him what 8, 10 years? Or he makes it in year 5 then we miss in 6 so is he canned or gets another 4 years for one tournament appearance in 8 years? So what if we seriously backslide in years 2 and 3 to the point say year 3 we finish 4-16 in the B10 and have a losing record? Point is just blindly saying 4 years no matter what lacks all accountability on performance. It is not unheard of to can a coach after 2 years if the program has no life and leadership is lacking. You make it seem like he is canned after 2 games. And this Izzo example you are holding to, so you expect Woodson to follow the same trajectory as what MSU and Izzo did?
I didn’t say blindly give 4 years. I said 4 years unless a total collapse or off the court type issues. Go look at how much time college coaches get. I am not making it up. You can not accurately predict future performance off a single year or even two years. I used Izzo but there are literally 1000s of examples. What about Lou Henson who didn’t win 20 games until year 5 and then won 20+ 11 of the next 12 years? What about Brad Underwood who won 12 and 14 games in his first 2 years and hasn’t won less than 20 since? What about John Beilein who won a whopping 10 games in year one and then 15 in year 3 after he took over a 22 win program? Lute Olson who many credit for turning Iowa around in the 70s didn’t win 20 games until year 5. Bruce Pearl who everyone on this board seems to love didn’t get 20 wins at Auburn until year 4 and then backslide to 13 wins a couple years after he started winning. Ben Howland turned UCLA into one of the best teams in the NCAA in years 3, 4, and 5 but prior to that 11 and 18 wins. Scott Drew didn’t win 20 games at Baylor until year 5 and didn’t have double digit wins until year 4. Chris Beard won less than 20 games 3 of the 5 years he was at Texas Tech.
I am not hanging onto Izzo. I can’t even think of an example who didn’t have other issues or took over a 20 win team and won single digits multiple years who didn’t get 3 or 4 years. It is accepted throughout the college basketball industry that you need 3-4 years to tell the trajectory of a coach and program. Not by fans…. By people getting paid incredible money to do this job.
Those that are saying fire him now may be right. But experts will tell you that you cannot know for sure until you see a larger body of work. The truth is if you do fire him now you will almost certainly never get a good coach to come to IU for fear they have one or two bad years and they get fired.
That’s not unfair. The perception, given how much we’ve gotten it wrong the last two decades, is the concern here. What we haven’t been able to do is sustain whatever success we get. (And with little in the way of beef on the team next year, we may take a big step backwards.)
The lack of a legitimate starting five and zero depth on the bench seem to be much bigger issues than anything involving with the coaching staff. But reasonable minds can differ.
Some people like to be miserable, some like to complain, some want to pretend to be insiders with ridiculous theories about university presidents and some have no idea what they are talking about. Our current situation brings them all out at once.
this place may be unreadable until fall.
Too many only look at the what” and not the “how” (or don’t understand it) and end up trashing Woodson. Knowledgeable posters are fewer and farther between on this forum. Miss the old days before this place was allowed to be trashed.
How accurate is that stat to what you are doing though? I would give Indiana wide open shots as part of my defense because Indiana has never consistently shown they can hit them. I take my chance helping off of Miller Kopp, Tamar Bates, Xavier Johnson, Parker Stewart, Trey Galloway, etc. to stop Jackson-Davis. The attention TJD gets down low is a big reason for those open shots. We are not getting those next year based off this scheme if it is Michael Durr in the post.
As far as the rest of the thread goes, I am just tired of having this exact same conversation for all but one hire we have had since Knight was fired. I am in the "this roster was good enough to make the tournament" camp. For multiple reasons (that aren't all on the coach) it is looking like that is not going to happen...again. So we are having the age old conversation of just needing more time. And this summer people will convince themselves that all the new guys are better than whatever we lost. And really we all are just sitting around hoping that the coaching staff finds some way to break this cycle.
This program has been running on the fumes of the past for the majority of the past 20 years. The people who actually remember that past are shrinking each year. At some point someone that has the power to make decisions is going to have to figure out that the past is great, but you need to live in the now.
I am disappointed in the season. I think there are some things the coaching staff could have done better and I question some of the players work ethic to get better. We hear a whole bunch of talk every summer and we get all sorts of social media work out videos and player vlogs... save your time on that shit guys and go find a shot. Every guard on this team knowing we need shooters who was not putting in the extra time in gym to develop that shot is not as committed as it is going to take to resuscitate this program. If you are not putting in that time, then you are here for the aesthetic of being an IU player and not the extra work it takes to be a winner. That will rub some people the wrong way, "they have all this extra they have to do in addition to school...." Yep. So does every other student athlete in the country. This isn't high school anymore. Your God given talent is only going to take you so far.
And some like to blame others when they don’t want to face the reality that we are having a bad season
Yeah, that is fair, I was just replying to you because you posted the stat.
I don't play basketball myself, so question to those who do: if you have been playing since you were probably 6 years old, presumably getting reasonably good coaching from 8th grade or so, doing all that it takes to get a D1 scholarship, and at age 19-20 you do not have a consistent shot, are you likely to be able to develop one in a year with some extra gym work on your own?
That's Laughable..
Woodson win or lose isn't coaching at 70 .
His sideline deminoor now is as a old brooding grandpa..
Unless he gets some out our mind teams of 24 -7 two yrs in a row..Or some stupid crazy money extension..That he can't turn down..Which could happen with our stellar athletic department..
IU most likely has another new coach in 4 -5 yrs. Next yr is crucial for him..IU fans including myself will want for sale signs in his yard..
If we go like 15 -15 ....
And anyone thinks the portal sucks and it's not the way to go.Look at those guys we got this yr? It didn't work !
It's the only shot he has at a decent yr..He and his staff need to do a helluva lot better at getting who & what they need..Then it's a crapshoot if they even want to come to Bloomington Ind..
Everyone is different. MJ came into the NBA shooting 17% from 3 and didn’t shoot over 30% until he was 26 years old. Magic Johnson similarly shot horrible from 3 until his late 20s.
Many kids don’t actually get good coaches until high school. Plus late growth spurts, and size increases can throw off your shots for a time.
I guess the simplest answer is yes every player should put in hours of work per day at getting a better shot and it can pay off. It may not come in just one year though.
Yeah, we hear it every offseason.
“we’ll be better just by losing X, y and z.”
certainly everyone here was saying that the addition of X, Kopp, Parker and Bates would be a massive upgrade from a scoring and shooting perspective over Durham and Franklin.
remember all the posts last year saying that Parker was the best shooter on the team? (And despite any recent struggles he is our best 3pt % shooter at over 40%). Now, people are pretty down on him….people saying he shouldn’t play so much, start, people even saying they hope he leaves as that makes us better.
It’s natural as a fan to clamor for the bench player or the incoming player.
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Well, Parker WAS the the best shooter on the team, at least the first half of the season. He was shooting 46% from 3. And X has played a lot games, including yesterday, where he was the best PG on the court. The problem was that Stewart, X, and Kopp can’t take their man off the dribble and create their own jumper - they’re all set shooters. And X was the only one who could drive to the hoop and score. Woody went dumpster diving and was hoping to get what he needed. He got one with X. Let’s see what his HS recruits bring before we start saying he’s a failure.
Yep people are already talking like that. We will be better without tjd. Geronimo will put up race type stats
Same thing every offseason
I agree with almost all of that (though I think X can create his own shot, though he’s best off pick and roll). He’s not a set shooter like the other 2. My post had nothing to do with coaching. Just making the point that people here always think the grass is greener on the other side (whoever we have that isn’t playing is better than who we start, and whoever we have coming in is even better).
X can’t really create his own jump shot since he shoots so low. Most defenders will swat that away. Perhaps an off balance shot or a move to a closer shot, but usually not a 3. He’s no Jay Edwards. 😊
From the 3 I can see your point, but Kopp and Parker score off an assist almost always. X not as much, he gets a much higher percentage unassisted.
Jay Edwards? Heck, we could probably use Devontae Green right about now (VBG).
The problem with Woodson is 2 things. One he's very old with no college coaching experience. Two, literally no IU fan I know wanted him as the hire. There isn't another top 25 program in the country that would've even given him a look.
When Archie was fired someone mentioned his name as possible replacement on HSN which is the sunshine pumper board (IU Scott I believe) and literally everyone on the board thought he had to of been joking.
Point is, almost everyone thought this was a bad hire from the get go. He needs to win and win big right out of the gate or it would be nearly impossible to succeed here. We made probably the riskiest hire we could've made at point where we were in no position to take a major risk given the past 20 years.
Not only did Woodson inherit an offense with a rating of 204th in the country, he also lost the best outside shooter from that offense to transfer.
The portal is usually full of guys who think they are better than they really are so they leave their school looking for something better.
Truthfully, the moment Dolson hired Woody he was virtually assured to be finding a new coach in 5 or so years. Just by Woody’s age.
I thought it was a good hire. Once BS was off the board Woodson was my number one choice.
I can’t wait until we actually have a couple of stretch 4s. It will show how effective and efficient his offense will be. Coupled with that top 15 defense every year.
In reality Woodson has one more year. That’s it. He doesn’t have the same cult following Crean and Archie did. IU fans are tired of getting burned by coaches so right or wrong Woodson has a short leash. It’s do or die time next season.
Six coaches in 22 years? Three coaches in 6 years?
And just who will take the job with that kind of turnover rate?
Woodson gets five years at least. Ridiculous to give a coach ONE recruiting class!
Doherty won the ACC and Roy Williams left Kansas for that job after Doherty got 3 years.
Calipari took UK when Gilispie got 2 years.
Good coaches aren’t afraid of high standards.
Feepee is a troll. He’s comparing Woodson too a drunk and a moron with anger issues. Woodson is neither of those.
