A closer look at Archie Miller

[Paterfamilias]

I'm a big fan of Archie Miller and would really get behind him as IU's coach. I would like to make a comparison of his 6 years at Dayton vs Alford's 6 years at New Mexico to make a point about March Madness bias. If you'll receive it, I think you'll find it interesting.

Archie Miller
130-72 (.6435) UD's overall record the 6 years prior to A. Miller
139-62 (.6915) UD's recorde so far under A. Miller
Conference Record 68-34 (.667)
Reg Season Champs 2
C-Tourn Rec (5-6)
C-Tourn Champs 0
NCAA Seeding (#7,#7,#11,#11)
NCAA Tourn Rec 5-3 (.625)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- None
Total A-10 teams to NCAA Tournament- 24
Offensive Eff. Ranks- #29, #29, #36, #74, #146, #45
Defensive Eff Ranks- #158, #145, #72, #31, #15, #136
Turnover% Ranks- #154, #269, #158, #193, #216, #71

Steve Alford
98-83 (.5414) UNM's overall record the 6 years prior to S. Alford
155-52 (.7487) UNM's overall record under S. Alford
Conference Record 68-26 (.723)
Reg Season Champs 4
C-Tourn Rec (8-4)
C-Tourn Champs 2
NCAA Seeding (#3,#5,#3)
NCAA Tourn Rec 2-3 (.400)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- #8, #10, #21
Total MWC teams to NCAA Tournament- 20
Offensive Eff. Ranks- #54, #47, #27, #48, #49, #53
Defensive Eff. Ranks- #30, #56, #82, #59, #15, #16
Turnover% Ranks- #27, #53, #14, #171, #153, #52

Now, most of us could get behind Archie Miller and he never even played here. Can you not see why UCLA hired Alford without being closet IU fans circa 1987? People out west knew what a great job Alford did at UNM. He had the Iowa baggage, but Guerrero took a shot based on the UNM work which is just as good if not better than Miller's work at Dayton.

Some of you are stone headed and this post is not meant for you.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I'm a big fan of Archie Miller and would really get behind him as IU's coach. I would like to make a comparison of his 6 years at Dayton vs Alford's 6 years at New Mexico to make a point about March Madness bias. If you'll receive it, I think you'll find it interesting.

Archie Miller
130-72 (.6435) UD's overall record the 6 years prior to A. Miller
139-62 (.6915) UD's recorde so far under A. Miller
Conference Record 68-34 (.667)
Reg Season Champs 2
C-Tourn Rec (5-6)
C-Tourn Champs 0
NCAA Seeding (#7,#7,#11,#11)
NCAA Tourn Rec 5-3 (.625)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- None

Steve Alford
98-83 (.5414) UNM's overall record the 6 years prior to S. Alford
155-52 (.7487) UNM's overall record under S. Alford
Conference Record 68-26 (.723)
Reg Season Champs 4
C-Tourn Rec (8-4)
C-Tourn Champs 2
NCAA Seeding (#3,#5,#3)
NCAA Tourn Rec 2-3 (.400)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- #8, #10, #21

Now, most of us could get behind Archie Miller and he never even played here. Can you not see why UCLA hired Alford without being closet IU fans circa 1987? People out west knew what a great job Alford did at UNM. He had the Iowa baggage, but Guerrero took a shot based on the UNM work which is just as good if not better than Miller's work at Dayton.

Some of you are stone headed and this post is not meant for you.

Pretty good, Pater.

Two stats I'd love to see on both: Defensive eff ranking and Turnover ranking.

 

[jsig]

Some of you are stone headed and this post is not meant for you.

I ate a brownie for lunch I'd be happy with either of them or Marshall.

 

[Fredrica James]

I'm a big fan of Archie Miller and would really get behind him as IU's coach. I would like to make a comparison of his 6 years at Dayton vs Alford's 6 years at New Mexico to make a point about March Madness bias. If you'll receive it, I think you'll find it interesting.

Archie Miller
130-72 (.6435) UD's overall record the 6 years prior to A. Miller
139-62 (.6915) UD's recorde so far under A. Miller
Conference Record 68-34 (.667)
Reg Season Champs 2
C-Tourn Rec (5-6)
C-Tourn Champs 0
NCAA Seeding (#7,#7,#11,#11)
NCAA Tourn Rec 5-3 (.625)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- None

Steve Alford
98-83 (.5414) UNM's overall record the 6 years prior to S. Alford
155-52 (.7487) UNM's overall record under S. Alford
Conference Record 68-26 (.723)
Reg Season Champs 4
C-Tourn Rec (8-4)
C-Tourn Champs 2
NCAA Seeding (#3,#5,#3)
NCAA Tourn Rec 2-3 (.400)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- #8, #10, #21

Now, most of us could get behind Archie Miller and he never even played here. Can you not see why UCLA hired Alford without being closet IU fans circa 1987? People out west knew what a great job Alford did at UNM. He had the Iowa baggage, but Guerrero took a shot based on the UNM work which is just as good if not better than Miller's work at Dayton.

Some of you are stone headed and this post is not meant for you.

Alford was great at New Mexico, but he was UCLA's third or fourth choice, so you could argue they settled for him as much as anything. And Dan Guerrero wasn't really aware of the Iowa stuff in any real detail, which proved to be problematic.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Alford was great at New Mexico, but he was UCLA's third or fourth choice, so you could argue they settled for him as much as anything. And Dan Guerrero wasn't really aware of the Iowa stuff in any real detail, which proved to be problematic.

True, but Miller is not likely to be the first coach IU talks to either.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Pretty good, Pater.

Two stats I'd love to see on both: Defensive eff ranking and Turnover ranking.

Looking team stats up right now

 

[fpeaugh]

If we can't get Brad or Billy, my #1 choice is Archie...and it's not even remotely close. I mean there's a mile between anyone else on the list. The guy can recruit, he can coach, and he'd build the kind of brand we need at IU.

 

[Fredrica James]

True, but Miller is not likely to be the first coach IU talks to either.

I'm sure he won't be, but you would expect, when he does, he would be more forthcoming with any information from his past that might cast a negative light on his potential new employer than Alford chose to be with DG.

 

[Fredrica James]

If we can't get Brad or Billy, my #1 choice is Archie...and it's not even remotely close. I mean there's a mile between anyone else on the list. The guy can recruit, he can coach, and he'd build the kind of brand we need at IU.

Brad and Billy aren't happening, but Archie would be a great hire.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Pretty good, Pater.

Two stats I'd love to see on both: Defensive eff ranking and Turnover ranking.

Here are Kenpom Off Eff Rank- Def Eff Rank for Miller's 6 years at Dayton and Alford's 6 years at UNM. I'll get the turnover stats up in a bit.

Miller
yr1- 29-158 (the year prior to Miller= 145-72
yr2- 29-145
yr3- 36-72
yr4- 74-31
yr5- 146-15
yr6- 45-136

Alford
yr1- 54-30 (the year prior to Alford= 72-146)
yr2- 47-56
yr3- 27-82
yr4- 48-59
yr5- 49-15
yr6- 53-16

 

[iubhounds]

Alford was great at New Mexico, but he was UCLA's third or fourth choice, so you could argue they settled for him as much as anything. And Dan Guerrero wasn't really aware of the Iowa stuff in any real detail, which proved to be problematic.

Tom Crean wasn't IU's first choice either and it has proved to be problematic also LOL

 

[Fredrica James]

Tom Crean wasn't IU's first choice either and it has proved to be problematic also LOL

So true. If the standards are high, it doesn't matter so much because everyone who could be hired is qualified. IU and UCLA missed that memo.

 

[Sope Creek]

I ate a brownie for lunch I'd be happy with either of them or Marshall.

Must . . . resist . . . temptation . . . .

 

[Paterfamilias]

Pretty good, Pater.

Two stats I'd love to see on both: Defensive eff ranking and Turnover ranking.

Here are the Turnover% rankings

Miller
yr1- #154
yr3- #269
yr3- #158
yr4- #193
yr5- #216
yr6- #71

Alford
yr1- #27
yr2- #53
yr3- #14
yr4- #171
yr5- #153
yr6- #52

Are you seeing a March Madness bias?

 

[minneman]

2-3 in the NCAA with 3,5,3 seeds is piss poor. Really good regular season record, though.
And he defended a rapist.

Pass

 

[IU Scott]

If we can't get Brad or Billy, my #1 choice is Archie...and it's not even remotely close. I mean there's a mile between anyone else on the list. The guy can recruit, he can coach, and he'd build the kind of brand we need at IU.

why not Marshall or Bennett

 

[Paterfamilias]

One last thing on this comparison. Someone brought up Miller's excellent 7-7 record vs Top 25 ranked teams while at Dayton. Alford was 15-5 vs Top 25 teams while at UNM.

 

[snarlcakes]

One last thing on this comparison. Someone brought up Miller's excellent 7-7 record vs Top 25 ranked teams while at Dayton. Alford was 15-5 vs Top 25 teams while at UNM.

Thanks for posting all the stats. Alford isn't my first (or top 5) choice, but would be a major upgrade to Crean. I don't think he would take us to elite status, but we would be a top 10ish program.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Thanks for posting all the stats. Alford isn't my first (or top 5) choice, but would be a major upgrade to Crean. I don't think he would take us to elite status, but we would be a top 10ish program.

You're welcome. I'm happy with Alford at UCLA myself. The point of my post is this. Anyone who is a big supporter of Archie Miller and tells you that Alford is mediocre or even a lateral move to Crean is someone who is... not worth listening to when the subject is college basketball

 

[outside shooter]

Anyone who is a big supporter of Archie Miller and tells you that Alford is mediocre or even a lateral move to Crean is someone who is... not worth listening to when the subject is college basketball

Or perhaps they are concerned with issues of character and the Pierce incident,

or perhaps they remember Alford's record of ups and downs at Iowa and are not just relying on his New Mexico years.

personally I think he'd be an upgrade over Crean, but what a low bar that is.

I'll support Steve if we hire him, and hope for the best, but expect we'd settle into a routine of making the NCAAs as a 6th-ish seed and finishing 3-6 in the Big 10, but consistently. The basketball would be prettier, the on-court IQ would be higher, we'd recruit better in-state, but we'd not really ever be a top 10 program.

 

[Fredrica James]

Or perhaps they are concerned with issues of character and the Pierce incident,

or perhaps they remember Alford's record of ups and downs at Iowa and are not just relying on his New Mexico years.

personally I think he'd be an upgrade over Crean, but what a low bar that is.

I'll support Steve if we hire him, and hope for the best, but expect we'd settle into a routine of making the NCAAs as a 6th-ish seed and finishing 3-6 in the Big 10, but consistently. The basketball would be prettier, the on-court IQ would be higher, but we'd not really ever be a top 10 program.

Excellent post. Leading the program encompasses more than just X's and O's.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Or perhaps they are concerned with issues of character and the Pierce incident,

or perhaps they remember Alford's record of ups and downs at Iowa and are not just relying on his New Mexico years.

personally I think he'd be an upgrade over Crean, but what a low bar that is.

I'll support Steve if we hire him, and hope for the best, but expect we'd settle into a routine of making the NCAAs as a 6th-ish seed and finishing 3-6 in the Big 10, but consistently. The basketball would be prettier, the on-court IQ would be higher, we'd recruit better in-state, but we'd not really ever be a top 10 program.

You may be right, but you do realize that Alford has received better than a #6 seed five times in the last eight years and finished in AP Top 10 three times? I realize IU's prestige has fallen, but we're surely not that big of a step down.

 

[Grotto_22]

This is some great analysis. Thank you."OldFriend" at another forum posted this a week ago...


-------

Let's look at the Alford thing a little more closely. I don't care what level a coach comes from. I want to know what he can do and whether or not he can recruit the right kind of kids and win. So let's break this down a little bit. (And yes, I know Crean gets a breakfast pass for his first 2 (no...not 3) seasons at Indiana.

Alford .667 overall winning % Crean .608

Alford 6 conference titles, 18 Top 4 conference finishes Crean 3 conference titles, 7 top 4 finishes

Alford 9 seasons with single digit losses including a 31-1 season. Crean 5 seasons with single digit losses, best of 27-6.

Alford Seventeen 20-win seasons. Crean Nine 20-win seasons.

 

[TomCreanwood]

Didn't Archie make it to the round of 32 with only 6 players on scholarship two years ago?

 

[dbmhoosier]

If we can't get Brad or Billy, my #1 choice is Archie...and it's not even remotely close. I mean there's a mile between anyone else on the list. The guy can recruit, he can coach, and he'd build the kind of brand we need at IU.

You've said many times this was going to be an elite home run hire. You recently chastised someone for suggesting Archie saying that we'd do a lot better.

 

[TommyCracker]

Pater, this stuff is great, really great.

I've always said the measure of an outstanding coach was some kind of combination of a 70% winning percentage, consistent conference performance (bonus if the program becomes the face of the conference) and lastly performing at a level strongly above the program's norm (the Billy Donovan at Marshall or Chris Collins at Northwestern rule in case). Basically does this coach give a smaller program what will be considered a golden age for the program.

Alford at New Mexico knocked those numbers out of the park. He did. I'm not an Alford as a coach guy. I wasn't terribly impressed with his stint at SW Missouri and his Iowa stint was awful...but I thought he'd disappear at New Mexico and he came back, strong.

I didn't know of the previous six years performance. That was an awesome tidbit and makes that New Mexico turnaround even that more impressive.

I can't throw out his Missouri and Iowa stint though, and it makes it tough to evaluate.

Do the same with Greg McDermott at Creighton and he looks like a coaching superstar. He was really good at UNI. However he was a disaster at Iowa State.

Do the same with Gregg Marshall and...He's the extreme with how crazy good he's turned programs around.

Anyway, Marshall is my number one guy and I still have Archie as number two (he's so young, his record and his program has consistently gotten better over the years and he's fought though insane adversity. A starter died on him. One year he was down to just six scholarship players and none were over 6'6" and he still made the tourney and had a great year by Dayton's standards).

This definitely helps alleviates some doubt I have with Alford the coach (again I didn't know of the previous six years so thank you) but the Pierce thing showed such a horrible lack of judgement and such an out of touch, pretentious/pompous and reckless behavior under the guise of faith that I could never fully back him as the steward of the program.

So I'm hoping we go after Marshall or Archie.

I think you're going to get your wish though. Alford is my bet on who Glass would target.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Pater, this stuff is great, really great.

I've always said the measure of an outstanding coach was some kind of combination of a 70% winning percentage, consistent conference performance (bonus if the program becomes the face of the conference) and lastly performing at a level strongly above the program's norm (the Billy Donovan at Marshall or Chris Collins at Northwestern rule in case). Basically does this coach give a smaller program what will be considered a golden age for the program.

Alford at New Mexico knocked those numbers out of the park. He did. I'm not an Alford as a coach guy. I wasn't terribly impressed with his stint at SW Missouri and his Iowa stint was awful...but I thought he'd disappear at New Mexico and he came back, strong.

I didn't know of the previous six years performance. That was an awesome tidbit and makes that New Mexico turnaround even that more impressive.

I can't throw out his Missouri and Iowa stint though, and it makes it tough to evaluate.

Do the same with Greg McDermott at Creighton and he looks like a coaching superstar. He was really good at UNI. However he was a disaster at Iowa State.

Do the same with Gregg Marshall and...He's the extreme with how crazy good he's turned programs around.

Anyway, Marshall is my number one guy and I still have Archie as number two (he's so young, his record and his program has consistently gotten better over the years and he's fought though insane adversity. A starter died on him. One year he was down to just six scholarship players and none were over 6'6" and he still made the tourney and had a great year by Dayton's standards).

This definitely helps alleviates some doubt I have with Alford the coach (again I didn't know of the previous six years so thank you) but the Pierce thing showed such a horrible lack of judgement and such an out of touch, pretentious/pompous and reckless behavior under the guise of faith that I could never fully back him as the steward of the program.

So I'm hoping we go after Marshall or Archie.

I think you're going to get your wish though. Alford is my bet on who Glass would target.

Tommy, did you see the later posts in this thread with the Off-Def efficiency ranks as well as Turnover% ranks for their respective 6 seasons? I didn't know these #'s beforehand and I have to say that I'm not impressed with Miller's turnover #'s.

That said, I try to understand as I look at this stuff that coaches will improve over their careers and I still think Miller is going to be good one. By the same token I give Alford a little leeway for his early years. I mean he totally skipped the part where you play the assistant role to a master for a few years. I think he has grown and learned in the same way I expect Miller to grow and learn.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Here are Kenpom Off Eff Rank- Def Eff Rank for Miller's 6 years at Dayton and Alford's 6 years at UNM. I'll get the turnover stats up in a bit.

Miller
yr1- 29-158 (the year prior to Miller= 145-72
yr2- 29-145
yr3- 36-72
yr4- 74-31
yr5- 146-15
yr6- 45-136

Alford
yr1- 54-30 (the year prior to Alford= 72-146)
yr2- 47-56
yr3- 27-82
yr4- 48-59
yr5- 49-15
yr6- 53-16

Did Miller have some key guys graduate after year 5? That D was getting better and better, up to 15th, then dropped way off in year 6.

 

[TommyCracker]

Tommy, did you see the later posts in this thread with the Off-Def efficiency ranks as well as Turnover% ranks for their respective 6 seasons? I didn't know these #'s beforehand and I have to say that I'm not impressed with Miller's turnover #'s.

That said, I try to understand as I look at this stuff that coaches will improve over their careers and I still think Miller is going to be good one. By the same token I give Alford a little leeway for his early years. I mean he totally skipped the part where you play the assistant role to a master for a few years. I think he has grown and learned in the same way I expect Miller to grow and learn.

That was more great data as I thought Miller would have been more balanced, particularly on the defensive end and not turn the ball over as much.

It's going to be interesting if Marshall does his typical boa constrictor on him, meaning take away what he wants to do and slowly strangle him on Friday (I love that about Marshall's teams).

Great point on Alford never being an assistant. I didn't consider that one either.

If Alford does take over (like I said, he's my bet. Not my favorite but my bet) I hope we get the latest version of Steve and he brings the Park Tudor guy with him.

Another nice tidbit with Alford is how quickly Craig Neal has performed below the standard that Alford did...Giving further credence that Alford was outstanding during his time there.

He really was.

TMP has a coaching measurement that he uses, I'm curious where Stevie falls on his scale.

 

[IU Scott]

That was more great data as I thought Miller would have been more balanced, particularly on the defensive end and not turn the ball over as much.

It's going to be interesting if Marshall does his typical boa constrictor on him, meaning take away what he wants to do and slowly strangle him on Friday (I love that about Marshall's teams).

Great point on Alford never being an assistant. I didn't consider that one either.

If Alford does take over (like I said, he's my bet. Not my favorite but my bet) I hope we get the latest version of Steve and he brings the Park Tudor guy with him.

Another nice tidbit with Alford is how quickly Craig Neal has performed below the standard that Alford did...Giving further credence that Alford was outstanding during his time there.

He really was.

TMP has a coaching measurement that he uses, I'm curious where Stevie falls on his scale.

For me there would only be one call and that would be to Marshall

 

[Paterfamilias]

Did Miller have some key guys graduate after year 5? That D was getting better and better, up to 15th, then dropped way off in year 6.

The big man (Mcelvane) died and star player Dyshawn Pierre graduated. The offense has improved a lot this season. I'm guessing here, but they are probably playing differently than last year because they are small.

You can't always just look at the defensive rank per kenpom. Sometimes the coach is making strategic decisions based on personnel that may effect those efficiency numbers. The coach's main goal is to win games not finish high on kenpom's rankings.

Same goes for UCLA. If you just look at the kenpom defensive numbers you're missing the big picture.

 

[JonesIndiana]

End of the day, Alford's club was given two #3 seeds in two different tournaments in his career. In one, he lost the very first game. In the other, they got drilled in the second game.

Is someone trying to make a pretend argument that those #3 seeds were not earned and just given because he was at a non-power 6 school? What would Gregg Marshall have done with those 3 seeds? For that matter, what has Tom Crean done with his 3 or better seeds in his career? I'll tell you, a Sweet 16 and a Final Four. Alford couldn't even get out of the first weekend.

This is a guy that UCLA fans have begged to get sacked and were furious when he was hired in the first place.

DOWNGRADE!

 

[Paterfamilias]

End of the day, Alford's club was given two #3 seeds in two different tournaments in his career. In one, he lost the very first game. In the other, they got drilled in the second game.

Is someone trying to make a pretend argument that those #3 seeds were not earned and just given because he was at a non-power 6 school? What would Gregg Marshall have done with those 3 seeds? For that matter, what has Tom Crean done with his 3 or better seeds in his career? I'll tell you, a Sweet 16 and a Final Four. Alford couldn't even get out of the first weekend.

This is a guy that UCLA fans have begged to get sacked and were furious when he was hired in the first place.

DOWNGRADE!

If I remember correctly, Marshall didn't make it out of the first weekend with a #1 seed. Using your old brackets to make judgments about coaching will have you all over the map.

 

[.Gerdis]

For me there would only be one call and that would be to Marshall

And if Illinois beat us to the punch????

 

[JonesIndiana]

If I remember correctly, Marshall didn't make it out of the first weekend with a #1 seed. Using your old brackets to make judgments about coaching will have you all over the map.

But he more than made up for it by getting to the Final Four. Has Steve gotten past the Sweet 16? Not once, not in 21 years. Not one single time.

 

[Paterfamilias]

But he more than made up for it by getting to the Final Four. Has Steve gotten past the Sweet 16? Not once, not in 21 years. Not one single time.

You do realize that SMS, UNM and Iowa aren't exactly Sweet 16 regulars let alone Elite Eight? People like you prefer Trent Dilfer to Dan Marino. I can't converse with you any longer because you have the depth of a talk show host.

 

[IndianaHoops]

I'm a big fan of Archie Miller and would really get behind him as IU's coach. I would like to make a comparison of his 6 years at Dayton vs Alford's 6 years at New Mexico to make a point about March Madness bias. If you'll receive it, I think you'll find it interesting.

Archie Miller
130-72 (.6435) UD's overall record the 6 years prior to A. Miller
139-62 (.6915) UD's recorde so far under A. Miller
Conference Record 68-34 (.667)
Reg Season Champs 2
C-Tourn Rec (5-6)
C-Tourn Champs 0
NCAA Seeding (#7,#7,#11,#11)
NCAA Tourn Rec 5-3 (.625)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- None

Steve Alford
98-83 (.5414) UNM's overall record the 6 years prior to S. Alford
155-52 (.7487) UNM's overall record under S. Alford
Conference Record 68-26 (.723)
Reg Season Champs 4
C-Tourn Rec (8-4)
C-Tourn Champs 2
NCAA Seeding (#3,#5,#3)
NCAA Tourn Rec 2-3 (.400)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- #8, #10, #21

Now, most of us could get behind Archie Miller and he never even played here. Can you not see why UCLA hired Alford without being closet IU fans circa 1987? People out west knew what a great job Alford did at UNM. He had the Iowa baggage, but Guerrero took a shot based on the UNM work which is just as good if not better than Miller's work at Dayton.

Some of you are stone headed and this post is not meant for you.

And if Alford was 38 years old and Iowa never happened you have have a point (or UCLA being 15-17 last year). Miller has a much higher ceiling and you know what you are going to get with Alford.

Where is Dayton going to the Elite 8? Where is UNM getting beat by a #14 seed as a 3 seed?

How many bad years has Miller had? How many bad years has Alford had?

Only focusing on 6 years of a 22 year career is deceiving. You can make anyone look good if you can only count specific segments of their career: Example: Howland and Weber

Alford wasn't at UNM to start his career, he was sent there because he failed miserably at a Big Ten School. Miller is just starting out.

And its also funny that you pick 6 years previous to both coaches getting there. Why 6? Dave Bliss had as much if not more success as UNM than Alford. Why?

Here is a fun facts:

* Dayton had been to the NCAA 4 times in the previous 17 years before Miller.....Miller has now taken them to the NCAA 4 times in a row.
* Alford has never taken the same school to the NCAA 3 times in a row (sound familiar?)

Look I get it....you are in you 50s and love Alford.... hey, he was a great player.

But the simple fact is Crean and Alford are almost exactly alike. The ups and downs and the ceilings are the same.

 

[IndianaHoops]

You do realize that SMS, UNM and Iowa aren't exactly Sweet 16 regulars let alone Elite Eight? People like you prefer Trent Dilfer to Dan Marino. I can't converse with you any longer because you have the depth of a talk show host.

Neither is Dayton and Iowa is.

 

[.Gerdis]

I'm a big fan of Archie Miller and would really get behind him as IU's coach. I would like to make a comparison of his 6 years at Dayton vs Alford's 6 years at New Mexico to make a point about March Madness bias. If you'll receive it, I think you'll find it interesting.

Archie Miller
130-72 (.6435) UD's overall record the 6 years prior to A. Miller
139-62 (.6915) UD's recorde so far under A. Miller
Conference Record 68-34 (.667)
Reg Season Champs 2
C-Tourn Rec (5-6)
C-Tourn Champs 0
NCAA Seeding (#7,#7,#11,#11)
NCAA Tourn Rec 5-3 (.625)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- None

Steve Alford
98-83 (.5414) UNM's overall record the 6 years prior to S. Alford
155-52 (.7487) UNM's overall record under S. Alford
Conference Record 68-26 (.723)
Reg Season Champs 4
C-Tourn Rec (8-4)
C-Tourn Champs 2
NCAA Seeding (#3,#5,#3)
NCAA Tourn Rec 2-3 (.400)
Final AP Top 25 Rankings- #8, #10, #21

Now, most of us could get behind Archie Miller and he never even played here. Can you not see why UCLA hired Alford without being closet IU fans circa 1987? People out west knew what a great job Alford did at UNM. He had the Iowa baggage, but Guerrero took a shot based on the UNM work which is just as good if not better than Miller's work at Dayton.

Some of you are stone headed and this post is not meant for you.

great post, and topic of discussion.

you may not change any minds. While UCLA can hire Alford by judging him in an unbiased manner, many here don't have that luxury. Perhaps the Alford's would have more peace being out West. Sure there are some people here that would support Alford's hire, there seem to be an equal number of people that are so colored by their hatred that they could never look at anything that he has done, or could do, in an unbiased manner.

 

[Paterfamilias]

And if Alford was 38 years old and Iowa never happened you have have a point (or UCLA being 15-17 last year). Miller has a much higher ceiling and you know what you are going to get with Alford.

Where is Dayton going to the Elite 8? Where is UNM getting beat by a #14 seed as a 3 seed?

How many bad years has Miller had? How many bad years has Alford had?

Only focusing on 6 years of a 22 year career is deceiving. You can make anyone look good if you can only count specific segments of their career: Example: Howland and Weber

And its also funny that you pick 6 years previous to both coaches getting there. Why 6? Dave Bliss had as much if not more success as UNM than Alford. Why?

Here is a fun facts:

* Dayton had been to the NCAA 4 times in the previous 17 years before Miller.....Miller has now taken them to the NCAA 4 times in a row.
* Alford has never taken the same school to the NCAA 3 times in a row (sound familiar?)

Look I get it....you are in you 50s and love Alford.... hey, he was a great player.

But the simple fact is Crean and Alford are almost exactly alike. The ups and downs and the ceilings are the same.

I'm comparing a 6 year run at one mid-major to a 6 year run at another mid-major. One coach people love, the other people hate. The one that people hate outshines the performance of the one that people love in almost every category. I compare the 6 years prior for the obvious reason that I am looking at 6 year runs. Why would I use 4, 8 or 17 when it makes the most sense to use 6.

There is nothing wrong with the data as presented and your best arguments are weak.