64% of Americans claim to be Christian per recent polling.

[Indianaftw]

So I am not a religious scholar and don't have the time to get too deep but I don't think anything up above negates what is in James. When "the law" is brought up or whenever there is a reference of the Gentiles not having to live like the Jews, I don't believe that is saying that you just say "Jesus is Lord" and you get to live however you want. It is saying that the old laws (like those brought up by other above like earing certain animals or wearing clothes of different materials) don't have to apply to the Gentiles in order for them to receive salvation. That isn't important. You do still have to live a Godly life (or attempt to the best of your ability) along with that profession of faith. And James is saying that if you are truly transformed, your faith will lead to your works.

I again go back to the example directly after that. Demons acknowledged who Jesus was but they are/were rebellious.

Remember at the end of Romans 3. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. The law established is faith in Jesus Christ that he shed his blood to forgive you of your sins. If you believe that fully persuaded as described in Romans 4 with Abraham the law is established and (YOUR SAVED) . Moving forward as described in 1 Corinthians you build upon that foundation. BUT Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Thats why you need salvation and to stand in faith. (saved) Then build your foundation.

 

[Indianaftw]

It’s really impressive that 2000 years of sectarian debate was so simple that it could be solved in a couple paragraphs on the cooler.

So what are you saying?

I'm bout finished. I've shown scripture, which was stupid of me unless you all stand in Pauls Gospel. In order to get any of it you need salvation which was presented.

I'm not here to fight, just share what I've learned.

1 Corinthians 9:16
For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

I know it, therefore I preach it. If I preach it wrong I'm screwed.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Peace and I hope you all get it.

 

[Indianaftw]

I think one of the overarching points here is that if you believe the people arguing with you are arguing in good faith and have just as much interest in being Christian as you do, you have to admit that the Bible is vague and contradictory about a lot of very important things.

So using it to support a divine position on current political events, 2000+ years removed from the time the texts were written, doesn’t make much sense.

I only care for one thing and one thing only Brad (Salvation). If they are discussing it and bringing up points I'm just here to show what I've learned and help lead whomever wants to hear salvation, salvation.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I am far, far from a Biblical scholar. But for me, Mark has it. Rule 1, there is but one God and to love Him. Rule 2, love your neighbor as yourself. It is rule 2 that requires works, imho.

The problem we all run into, liberal Christian and conservative Christian, is that we throw rule 2 out the window when it comes to American politics.

I am a terrible example of how to act (which is something that I also know there are a multitude of scriptures against) and I think the whole "Love your enemies" thing is probably one of my greatest struggles. I have liberals in my life that I am friendly with and we just agree not to get into this stuff, I think the struggle I (and probably many) have is that it is really, really easy to lump feelings onto groups. That and the be slow to anger thing get me sometimes.

So you have that mental tug that moves between, "Lord I hate these people and I hate having to deal with them" when thinking of the group on one hand and then rationally realizing that someone like you would be an interesting history discussion or Bulk has the dickhead humor of most of my friends so we would probably get along outside of these topics and Zeke and I share a love of IU sports and probably other things on the other.

I think liberal and conservative Christians are both guilty of emphasizing the things they are comfortable with for secular or political reasons and paying short shrift to the other side of the message that doesn't fit in line with their secular/political thinking. Both sides in this country would find aspects of what they get wrong in those letters to the churches at the beginning of Revelation.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Remember at the end of Romans 3. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. The law established is faith in Jesus Christ that he shed his blood to forgive you of your sins. If you believe that fully persuaded as described in Romans 4 with Abraham the law is established and (YOUR SAVED) . Moving forward as described in 1 Corinthians you build upon that foundation. BUT Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Thats why you need salvation and to stand in faith. (saved) Then build your foundation.

Again, I don't think we are disagreeing. Doing good works alone doesn't get you into heaven. Faith does. But real faith, as pointed out by James, will lead to your good deeds.

Matthew 7:21-23 touches on that idea as well.

 

[TMFT]

So what are you saying?

I'm bout finished. I've shown scripture, which was stupid of me unless you all stand in Pauls Gospel. In order to get any of it you need salvation which was presented.

I'm not here to fight, just share what I've learned.

1 Corinthians 9:16
For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

I know it, therefore I preach it. If I preach it wrong I'm screwed.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Peace and I hope you all get it.

I’m saying, and I think you’d agree, that you are 100% certain you are correct. There are an uncountable number of theologians or otherwise religious people going back to antiquity that disagree with you to some extent and are 100% certain they’re right.

So while you can confidently explain your perspective of Paul’s epistles and there’s nothing invalid about your thoughts, I’m incredulous that your personal study or the thoughts imparted on you by teachers are 100% correct because you e somehow cracked the code.

As a thought experiment, if you had been born and raised in India, Iran, or Italy, do you think you would have been as committed to Hinduism, Islam, or Roman Catholicism? My intuition is yes. Do you think you would have been fully bought into your present view of Christianity if you had come across the New Testament? My intuition is no. I doubt you would have had any more predilection at that point to read the Bible than you are to read the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita now. And to the extent of ever reading holy books outside of your worldview, it’s most likely that it was only done so to confirm your worldview vs challenge it.

That’s not to say you’re doing anything wrong or bad. I was raised a cover to cover Christian. I read books by Hagee. Like I said previously, i watched Kent Hovind videos and read Answers in Genesis in addition to any number of apologetics resources. I took everything that didn’t comport with how I was raised personally. I get it. I was the same way.

Being convinced you’re right is not necessarily a bad thing at all. Conviction is to be admired. I think looking at things from a more detached view can add useful perspective, but that’s just me.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I’m saying, and I think you’d agree, that you are 100% certain you are correct. There are an uncountable number of theologians or otherwise religious people going back to antiquity that disagree with you to some extent and are 100% certain they’re right.

So while you can confidently explain your perspective of Paul’s epistles and there’s nothing invalid about your thoughts, I’m incredulous that your personal study or the thoughts imparted on you by teachers are 100% correct because you e somehow cracked the code.

As a thought experiment, if you had been born and raised in India, Iran, or Italy, do you think you would have been as committed to Hinduism, Islam, or Roman Catholicism? My intuition is yes. Do you think you would have been fully bought into your present view of Christianity if you had come across the New Testament? My intuition is no. I doubt you would have had any more predilection at that point to read the Bible than you are to read the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita now. And to the extent of ever reading holy books outside of your worldview, it’s most likely that it was only done so to confirm your worldview vs challenge it.

That’s not to say you’re doing anything wrong or bad. I was raised a cover to cover Christian. I read books by Hagee. Like I said previously, i watched Kent Hovind videos and read Answers in Genesis in addition to any number of apologetics resources. I took everything that didn’t comport with how I was raised personally. I get it. I was the same way.

Being convinced you’re right is not necessarily a bad thing at all. Conviction is to be admired. I think looking at things from a more detached view can add useful perspective, but that’s just me.

Yep. Some things we believe to be true will always depend on experience and perspective. Other truths are scientific and are largely indisputable. Knowing the difference is where the rubber meets the road.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

I am far, far from a Biblical scholar. But for me, Mark has it. Rule 1, there is but one God and to love Him. Rule 2, love your neighbor as yourself. It is rule 2 that requires works, imho.

The problem we all run into, liberal Christian and conservative Christian, is that we throw rule 2 out the window when it comes to American politics.

The tweak of this I’ve seen that I feel is a bit better: (1) God loves you more than you can possibly understand (2) you should love your God and to do that, you should try to love others (including your enemies) as much as God loves you.

I do think that if everyone felt loved and accepted, and then tried to do the same for everyone else, it would be a better world.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

The tweak of this I’ve seen that I feel is a bit better: (1) God loves you more than you can possibly understand (2) you should love your God and to do that, you should try to love others (including your enemies) as much as God loves you.

I do think that if everyone felt loved and accepted, and then tried to do the same for everyone else, it would be a better world.

As I said, Jesus turned everything upside down. Prior to him, you had to try to be good enough to please God, but because of our sinful nature, that was impossible...thus. all the sacrifices that were required in the Old Testament.
Jesus came along, served as the ultimate Atonement sacrifice, and now, we are saved, and are free to be good because God loves us, and we love him. "Good works" switched from a requirement to get into heaven, to a natural outgrowth of being saved. They still are done, but the motivation is much more rooted in love than transactional in nature.

Read the parable of the workers who toiled for an hour, but got the same reward from the master as those who had worked all day. The all day workers were pissed. To me, they represent Christians who need an us/them dynamic. I think FTW would say the parable was about Jews and Christians, and I could see that, too. The cool thing about parables is they are so rich in meaning.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Again, I don't think we are disagreeing. Doing good works alone doesn't get you into heaven. Faith does. But real faith, as pointed out by James, will lead to your good deeds.

Matthew 7:21-23 touches on that idea as well.

I kinda believe the opposite. Grace is the gift of God provided through His risen son. Jesus is the savior and salvation is free. There is no price attached to the kingdom of heaven. All we need do is accept the gift.

 

[Bowlmania]

I’m saying, and I think you’d agree, that you are 100% certain you are correct. There are an uncountable number of theologians or otherwise religious people going back to antiquity that disagree with you to some extent and are 100% certain they’re right.

So while you can confidently explain your perspective of Paul’s epistles and there’s nothing invalid about your thoughts, I’m incredulous that your personal study or the thoughts imparted on you by teachers are 100% correct because you e somehow cracked the code.

As a thought experiment, if you had been born and raised in India, Iran, or Italy, do you think you would have been as committed to Hinduism, Islam, or Roman Catholicism? My intuition is yes. Do you think you would have been fully bought into your present view of Christianity if you had come across the New Testament? My intuition is no. I doubt you would have had any more predilection at that point to read the Bible than you are to read the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita now. And to the extent of ever reading holy books outside of your worldview, it’s most likely that it was only done so to confirm your worldview vs challenge it.

That’s not to say you’re doing anything wrong or bad. I was raised a cover to cover Christian. I read books by Hagee. Like I said previously, i watched Kent Hovind videos and read Answers in Genesis in addition to any number of apologetics resources. I took everything that didn’t comport with how I was raised personally. I get it. I was the same way.

Being convinced you’re right is not necessarily a bad thing at all. Conviction is to be admired. I think looking at things from a more detached view can add useful perspective, but that’s just me.

There is one common thread - - and central tenet - - in the writings of all the major religions in the world: the Golden Rule.

•Buddhism: “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.”
•Christianity: “Whatsoever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them, for this is the law of the prophets.”
•Confucianism: “What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.”
•Hinduism: “Do naught to others which would cause pain if done to you.”
•Islam: “No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.”
•Judaism: “What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the entire Law. All the rest is commentary.”

You need to do good. You've got to demonstrate compassion and empathy. You've got to give back. If you believe in a supreme being and an afterlife, you can't be a selfish prick and expect salvation.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The all day workers were pissed. To me, they represent Christians who need an us/them dynamic.

Very well said. Many Christian’s indeed need an us/them dynamic. I think that belief denies the whole meaning of Easter. As I’ve pointed out in less articulate ways in this thread, most, if not all, critics of Christianity impose the us/them dynamic onto Christianity.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

There is one common thread - - and central tenet - - in the writings of all the major religions in the world: the Golden Rule.

•Buddhism: “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.”
•Christianity: “Whatsoever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them, for this is the law of the prophets.”
•Confucianism: “What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.”
•Hinduism: “Do naught to others which would cause pain if done to you.”
•Islam: “No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.”
•Judaism: “What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the entire Law. All the rest is commentary.”

You need to do good. You've got to demonstrate compassion and empathy. You've got to give back. If you believe in a supreme being and an afterlife, you can't be a selfish prick and expect salvation.

I found out early in my adult life the Golden Rule is not enough. Not everyone can take a punch. For whatever reason, I let things roll off my back that others in my office carried with them.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It is interesting that this thread has seen the participants overall very well-behaved. So different from a political thread.

I just finished a book on deception. The author has conducted many experiments on people and one thing he found, reminding people to tell the truth before completing a form or speaking increases the likelihood they will tell the truth. Asking them to assert at the end that what they have written or said is true has no impact*. He's spoken with the IRS, with insurance companies, that forms need to be more "what follows is the truth" would cut down greatly on fraud. Absolutely no one has taken him up on it.

I mention this because even among atheists, asking them to swear on a Bible or even just recite the 10 Commandments has a positive impact. Maybe a thread about religion reminds us similarly, whereas a thread on guns has the opposite effect and increases our hostility?

* He theorizes that if one claimed in an insurance form to own 5000 books in their library when it was probably 500, one rationalizes it internally. So when they get to the end and swear it is accurate, they have bought into the rationalization. But if they are reminded to be truthful before, they are less likely to rationalize to begin with.

 

[Bowlmania]

I found out early in my adult life the Golden Rule is not enough. Not everyone can take a punch. For whatever reason, I let things roll off my back that others in my office carried with them.

Sorry. I have no idea what you're talking about. Seems you don't understand what the "Golden Rule," in terms of morals and human behavior, represents.

 

[zeke4ahs]

This has turned into a thoughtful and interesting thread. Appreciate all who are participating and it has helped me see some things differently.

 

[Bowlmania]

It is interesting that this thread has seen the participants overall very well-behaved. So different from a political thread.

True, but the cynic in me says there are probably several who have declined to participate because they're non-believers and think it's all bullshit.

I believe in Jesus' divinity, but I think the New Testament is a great guide for living even for those who don't accept that and view Jesus as simply an influential philosopher. While there are a few head-scratching passages that are really not surprising when you think of the culture and the times when the words were written, most of the NT holds up exceptionally well in the 21st Century. It's a good read, particularly the four gospels.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I kinda believe the opposite. Grace is the gift of God provided through His risen son. Jesus is the savior and salvation is free. There is no price attached to the kingdom of heaven. All we need do is accept the gift.

How is that the opposite? At best accepting the gift and believing that Jesus is the son of God who died on the cross and we must accept that in word and deed are just kind of semantics. The gift you accept is a spiritual relationship with Him. He paid the price of admission and in return he expects you to have a relationship with him.

You love your wife, you may not say it all the time but there is a relationship or actions that are evident because of that love. You don't have that same relationship with a random person walking down the street. That is what James was saying, if you truly have the faith (love someone), that faith (love) will be evident by your actions. If you tell your spouse you love them but spend your time cheating on them, that isn't real love.

 

[Indianaftw]

I’m saying, and I think you’d agree, that you are 100% certain you are correct. There are an uncountable number of theologians or otherwise religious people going back to antiquity that disagree with you to some extent and are 100% certain they’re right.

So while you can confidently explain your perspective of Paul’s epistles and there’s nothing invalid about your thoughts, I’m incredulous that your personal study or the thoughts imparted on you by teachers are 100% correct because you e somehow cracked the code.

As a thought experiment, if you had been born and raised in India, Iran, or Italy, do you think you would have been as committed to Hinduism, Islam, or Roman Catholicism? My intuition is yes. Do you think you would have been fully bought into your present view of Christianity if you had come across the New Testament? My intuition is no. I doubt you would have had any more predilection at that point to read the Bible than you are to read the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita now. And to the extent of ever reading holy books outside of your worldview, it’s most likely that it was only done so to confirm your worldview vs challenge it.

That’s not to say you’re doing anything wrong or bad. I was raised a cover to cover Christian. I read books by Hagee. Like I said previously, i watched Kent Hovind videos and read Answers in Genesis in addition to any number of apologetics resources. I took everything that didn’t comport with how I was raised personally. I get it. I was the same way.

Being convinced you’re right is not necessarily a bad thing at all. Conviction is to be admired. I think looking at things from a more detached view can add useful perspective, but that’s just me.

Intersting, IDK what if I had been born somewhere else. I consider myself lucky to have been where I was when I was shown, taught, and followed through. I was lost at the time and needed guidance. I do know that some of my brothers in Christ were Muslim and converted. A couple were catholic and converted. One was something else...he called himself like a black sheep or something and I go when I see you I see fire. He goes 'WHAT!!!"...I walked away laughing honestly coz he made no sense. It was pretty damn funny.

It is interesting though how many people approached me with all these different views and religions. Finally one guy goes you need to meet this guy he has read his KJV over 200 times. He walked in the spirit too, so I was intimidated for some reason. Like, I knew before I met him this was IT probably. I'm going to see the truth here. I was intimidated and scared because I was a bad sinner.

At the time I was reading an NIV version. After learning and being taught that hit the trash when I read this verse.

NIV Isaiah 14 12-15 Referring to when Lucifer fell from heaven...How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! In Rev 22: 16 in the KJV Christ says...I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Christ is the morning star.

So I switched to the KJV.

You bring up interesting points though above. BUT I stand firm and believe over 500 saw him after he died and the apostles. Peace

 

[IU_Hickory]

True, but the cynic in me says there are probably several who have declined to participate because they're non-believers and think it's all bullshit.

I believe in Jesus' divinity, but I think the New Testament is a great guide for living even for those who don't accept that and view Jesus as simply an influential philosopher. While there are a few head-scratching passages that are really not surprising when you think of the culture and the times when the words were written, most of the NT holds up exceptionally well in the 21st Century. It's a good read, particularly the four gospels.

I haven't really participated much since it's not my area of expertise. Was raised a Methodist but currently agnostic.

I think religion can be a helpful as a good moral compass but the few that use religion for personal gain have given it a bad name.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Leviticus and Deuteronomy are the sources for most of the whackadoodle definitions of sin that I mentioned. The relevant passages are cited in the link that I provided. All of the info is there.

Are we throwing out the Old Testament now, if convenient?

No, they are reacting to what the New Testament says about dealing with the pentateuch. There are moral laws, administrative laws, and ceremonial laws. The moral laws are the things that are generally written on the hearts of people in every culture. (Don't murder, steal, lie, cheat, etc.) Administrative laws are no longer applicable because God's kingdom on earth is no longer under one nation. It is many. So you render unto Caesar now. The ceremonial laws (what you can eat, wear, etc.) are also not necessary for Christians anymore because they related to how one had to present for the sacrifice. Christians believe Jesus became the sacrifice and therefore we don't have those ceremonial types of rules because we also are not offering animal sacrifices anymore.

That is really dumbing it down, but answers are there if truly interested. However, I think you are possibly playing a role laid out here:

​

1 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan.
2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ ?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”
11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.
12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Sorry. I have no idea what you're talking about. Seems you don't understand what the "Golden Rule," in terms of morals and human behavior, represents.

I found out that treating others how I expect them to treat me is not always the best. I have to treat others better than what I expect.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

How is that the opposite? At best accepting the gift and believing that Jesus is the son of God who died on the cross and we must accept that in word and deed are just kind of semantics. The gift you accept is a spiritual relationship with Him. He paid the price of admission and in return he expects you to have a relationship with him.

You love your wife, you may not say it all the time but there is a relationship or actions that are evident because of that love. You don't have that same relationship with a random person walking down the street. That is what James was saying, if you truly have the faith (love someone), that faith (love) will be evident by your actions. If you tell your spouse you love them but spend your time cheating on them, that isn't real love.

Given this post I may have misunderstood your position. I don’t agree with the idea that salvation has a cost. It is an unconditional gift. Years ago, I used to have many interesting discussions about this with a very good friend who was a “born again” Christian.

 

[TMFT]

I found out that treating others how I expect them to treat me is not always the best. I have to treat others better than what I expect.

Treating others how you’d want them to treat you IS the golden rule. Not how you expect them to treat you. It’s not transactional, it’s self sacrificing.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Treating others how you’d want them to treat you IS the golden rule. Not how you expect them to treat you. It’s not transactional, it’s self sacrificing.

I don’t see the difference.

I’ll stick with the rule I’ve made for myself, I’ll always try to treat people better than how they treat me.

 

[TMFT]

I don’t see the difference.

Award for understatement of the year.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Award for understatement of the year.

Is that the Golden Understatement?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Award for understatement of the year.

Is that the Golden Understatement?

You guys are putting me to the test.

Have a nice day.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You guys are putting me to the test.

Have a nice day.

Yep, it seems the envelope on "what a nice thread this has been" is being pushed.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Water coolerify the golden rule for better comprehension.

Treat everyone as if they agreed with your politics.

 

[Bowlmania]

I haven't really participated much since it's not my area of expertise. Was raised a Methodist but currently agnostic.

I think religion can be a helpful as a good moral compass but the few that use religion for personal gain have given it a bad name.

Yes, religion (and not just Christianity) has certainly been horribly distorted and bastardized by many over the centuries.

One of my best friends is a non-believer. Guy generously donates his time to probably a half-dozen charitable organizations. I told him once he's a better example of "living the gospel" and "faith in action" than many of the Christians I know. I don't think he was particularly comfortable with that assessment but he laughed and then changed the subject.

I'm blown away by nature and the perfect balance of everything (well, perfect until humans fvcked it up). This equipoise and complexity didn't happen randomly or simply as a function of explosive energy. There's a higher power for sure, but our intellect is too limited to understand it and/or see it.

Jesus had something special going. There's no way the apostles and early disciples would have continued with such fervor and driven explosive growth in the new movement if everything ended on Good Friday. Jesus would then have been exposed as a fraud and there would have been no point in continuing. Something, though, made Peter and the rest bust their humps to spread the message, devote the rest of their lives to missionary work, willingly endure difficult travel, ridicule and condemnation, and ultimately die for the cause. Biblical scholars believe that 10 of the 11 remaining apostles (John, who lived to a ripe old age in Ephesus, was the exception) died violent deaths.

I'm with Him.

 

[Bowlmania]

A couple were catholic and converted.

Converted to what?

 

[Indianaftw]

Converted to what?

Saved Sons of God.

 

[TMFT]

Saved Sons of God.

Honest question:

Is that some specific group within Christianity or are you implying Catholics aren’t in?

 

[Indianaftw]

Honest question:

Is that some specific group within Christianity or are you implying Catholics aren’t in?

The dude that taught me was studying to be a Catholic priest. The guy that taught him kept persecuting him asking how he was saved. He never got the answer right and the guy told him he was going to hell. It's up to the individuals testimony. But you better have that testimony down pat. God has wiped a lot of good dudes off the planet. Aaron's sons for instance for getting it wrong in the tabernacle were consumed by God's fire.

I don't plan on screwing this up. Hopefully I keep it in memory.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; [2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

 

[Spartans9312]

Honest question:

Is that some specific group within Christianity or are you implying Catholics aren’t in?

The Bible says not to add to or take away. It says Christ built one church.
Does the Bible mention Catholics?
Does it mention Lutherans?
Does it mention Methodists?
Does it mention Presbyterians?
And on and on

 

[UncleMark]

The dude that taught me was studying to be a Catholic priest. The guy that taught him kept persecuting him asking how he was saved. He never got the answer right and the guy told him he was going to hell. It's up to the individuals testimony. But you better have that testimony down pat. God has wiped a lot of good dudes off the planet. Aaron's sons for instance for getting it wrong in the tabernacle were consumed by God's fire.

Your God is a real asshole.

 

[Indianaftw]

Your God is a real asshole.

What now mark. Jeez. Someone always has to get upset. Who hit the report button now and did someone get offended by scripture I put forth?

 

[Crayfish57]

Your God is a real asshole.

Apparently your's is one too.

 

[bailey777]

Membership in organized religion is down, church attendance is down, enrollment in religious education is down. While a local church here and there may be thriving, it's clear that Americans' involvement in organized religion has plummeted from the peak decades of the '50s, '60s and '70s. While this trend is across a variety of faiths, it's most apparent in Christianity, probably because there were many more Christians (in the US) to begin with.

I think the waning influence of organized religion is unfortunate. A good church (or synagogue or mosque) that is true to the core tenets of the faith provides an important message, promotes the development and/or refinement of a moral compass, and sets forth clear guidelines for purposeful, positive and impactful living - - lives that feature kindness, compassion and love. When kids don't hear this in church or Sunday school, it's incumbent on parents to step up and fill the void. Sadly, I think only a minority are up to the task.

At least with respect to Christianity, the messaging void is being filled by faux preachers, cable news opinion hosts, social media influencers and even politicians who, in many instances, promote a bastardized version of Christianity that has little to nothing to do with the message of Christ but rather advances some other agenda.

Most everyone i know still goes to church but i am in a suburb with strong two parent households. And guess what we all get along even though some i dont agree with at all on politics. The guy across the steet is the biggest dem I ever met. Yet he willl do whatever in terms or yardwork etc, to help me out and he knows i am a huge conservative. Amazing what happens when you dont have non believers around who use politics to hate each other.