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2024 thoughts

Russia Russia Russia. We’re still waiting.
As for Russia, I’ve always looked at Trump as our Yeltsin. He was a loud mouthed drunk that Clinton played like a fiddle to get everything NATO wanted out of him. Putin hoped to use Trump in the same way. Neither were agents of the respective intelligence agencies, just useful assets because they were compromised in some way.

Gorbachev, on the other hand, was cultivated by the CIA and British intelligence for years during his rise to power. He’s in the double naught spy hall of fame.😊
 
As for Russia, I’ve always looked at Trump as our Yeltsin. He was a loud mouthed drunk that Clinton played like a fiddle to get everything NATO wanted out of him. Putin hoped to use Trump in the same way. Neither were agents of the respective intelligence agencies, just useful assets because they were compromised in some way.

Gorbachev, on the other hand, was cultivated by the CIA and British intelligence for years during his rise to power. He’s in the double naught spy hall of fame.😊
Any opinion on Biden being compromised?
 
Maybe we should elect Bruce Pearl. Much like Crean always seemed like a politician.

Right. No doubt Bruce Pearl is a Republican. He does it all -- he cheats, plus acts like a clown.

bruce-pearl-painted-chestjpg-71a74312df39a1f4.jpg
 
I wish there was some way that we could have a 5 or 10 year statute of limitations as to any past personal shortcomings when running for public office. As you say, it drives out all the good people.

How far have we come since the early 1960s, when the media was covering up for JFK while he was nailing GFs of Mafia chiefs in the WH pool?
Check this out:

 
He’s now an ex president. What other stuff is he going to do? Charity? Global AIDS prevention? Hahaha. Republicans are stuck with this self inflicted wound until they take their lumps and denounce him. They’d be smart to be figuring out a way to do that now and before 2024. Like someone said earlier this week, he’s a two time popoular vote loser. No reason that won’t happen a third time. At the rate Biden is going, an actual middle of the road Republican probably leads for 2024 right now.

But Trump is the most polarizing political figure since Lincoln in the south. That includes Nixon.
Pubs will not denounce President Trump.

Those that have denounced him are, for the most part, being primaried, or are losing committee assignments, or sanctioned by State legislatures.

Oblameo is the most divisive political figure in the last 100 years.
 
Pubs will not denounce President Trump.

Those that have denounced him are, for the most part, being primaried, or are losing committee assignments, or sanctioned by State legislatures.

Oblameo is the most divisive political figure in the last 100 years.
Yes, the Trump part is gloriously true and hopefully it continues. Because if it does, there won’t be a Republican elected President for a generation without major voter suppression laws. Oh wait.
 
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Was Trump ever given a fair shake from the start by Dems? Probably not. Did he deserve it? Probably not. From the birtherism shit to McConnell’s “we’ll make Obama a one term president” schtick I don’t know what anyone expected Dems to do but to fight him at every turn. For literally years the Dems had been getting gored by the ox that was Republican blood sport politics. They just brought out a bigger ox.

Now here we are. Nobody smart is going to run for President. Both political parties have zero room for compromise.

We need a leader. Trump was never going to be that person because he makes everything about himself. Biden is too old and has lost so many MPH on his fastball he’s rolling the damn ball to the plate at this point. Say what you will about Biden but at least he doesnt foster some cult of personality.
Biden is from the Gerald Ford School of Necessary Do-Nothing Placeholders.

Every few decades, the Republicans line up behind an immoral, unethical piece of shit, while prancing around in their hypocrisy, screaming about morality, religion and "family values" -- values which Republicans don't actually follow or even understand. Then, the country has to have a placeholder for a few years to reset after yet another Republican fiasco.

Republicans never learn their lesson, either. As vice president, Ford was a placeholder for Nixon's law-and-order attack dog, VP Spiro Agnew, who resigned in 1973 as vice president and pleaded no contest to tax evasion.


Nixon himself resigned In disgrace the next year, in 1974. Ford then became placeholder President and was such a powerhouse Republican leader that he got his ass kicked by unknown, smiling Jimmy Carter in the 1976 Presidential election.

It is truly baffling why Republicans act like they're the only party with qualified officeholders, after repeatedly electing and supporting immoral scum like Nixon, Agnew and Trump. Bitch all you want about Democrats, but you won't find any as bad as those three in recent history.
 
The further he gets from office, the more I think he'll enjoy kind of being away from it. He can have his say but not have to deal with the other stuff. He is a really wealthy guy, he has the means to keep occupied with other stuff.
Actually, he may not actually be "a really wealthy guy" and does not at all seem "occupied with other stuff" than politics.

If he starts opening new Trump-brand hotels and resorts, instead of holding political rallies, I will believe it's possible he has moved on. Not yet.
 
I’ve met this man multiple times. You might disagree with some of his social beliefs but he’s impressive.

He’s tried to work with democrats and it’s always dead on arrival no matter the issue.


I know nothing about this guy but it appears he followed Trump down every path rather than standing on his own. Reagan would be rolling in his grave
 
Not carrying water at all, I hope he stays out of 2024, but this idea that he is some far right lunatic is just false. He is a moderate old school democrat with an abrasive personality.
So, now Trump is a Democrat???
I'm not sure who thinks he is far right, either. He is a Trumplican who was/is out for himself.
The difference is the GOP fell for it and is still kissing his ass. The Democrats do not.
It's that simple.
 
As for Russia, I’ve always looked at Trump as our Yeltsin. He was a loud mouthed drunk that Clinton played like a fiddle to get everything NATO wanted out of him. Putin hoped to use Trump in the same way. Neither were agents of the respective intelligence agencies, just useful assets because they were compromised in some way.

Gorbachev, on the other hand, was cultivated by the CIA and British intelligence for years during his rise to power. He’s in the double naught spy hall of fame.😊
Now do Biden. Seriously, you guys on the OMG Trump train need to take a harder look at the current idiot in charge because he is everything you all accuse Trump of on steroids. Weaken America's position with allies? Check. Weaken America's position w.r.t. Russia and China? Check. Financially compromised by foreign powers? The big guy says 10% check. An asshole that acts like a dick? Check.

That foreign policy gun is not something you can level anymore, not after the 7 months this disaster in chief has had.
 
So, now Trump is a Democrat???
I'm not sure who thinks he is far right, either. He is a Trumplican who was/is out for himself.
The difference is the GOP fell for it and is still kissing his ass. The Democrats do not.
It's that simple.
You all see orange whenever Trump is brought up so there is no point trying to have a rational discussion about it. However, many of Trump's policies (immigration, economics) were 1990's moderate Democrat policies. Democrats were not big on immigration in the 80's and 90's. Up until Clinton they were more protectionist because of their union connections. @twenty02 or @Aloha Hoosier if they think Trump governs like a boilerplate GOP President. They will tell you he does not. He shifted the party to the left on things like labor and trade while he was President. Is he a current Democrat? No, but that is because that party also shifted left. In fact, there are charts/polls showing that the Democrats pushed further left since 1994 than the GOP pushed right. So there is a group of people who used to occupy the right wing of the Democratic Party in the 90's who now find themselves in the GOP.
 
I would argue Trump has no political beliefs at all and is only going to do whatever works for him transactionally. He ran as a Republican because he couldn’t get Democrats to support him and he’d made hay birthering Obama. His position on Obama was extreme and wrong. He gave that movement oxygen and parlayed it into his next gig.

He’s a foul POS who had no business ever being allowed to denigrate the office. Republicans can sand those edges off all they want but he is what he’s always been, a huckster. A charlatan.

You’re smart enough not to carry even a drop of water for him. Every time you or another decent human being does so you allow him to continue on.
Right . . . and the weird thing is that the "party of character" and the "party of principles" bought into all of that, nominated him as their party's candidate, and has adopted him as the standard by all things Republican are judged.

They can run from him - but don't - and they can't hide from his stain despite the many attempts to do so.

There is no Republican party any more.
 
Pubs will not denounce President Trump.

Those that have denounced him are, for the most part, being primaried, or are losing committee assignments, or sanctioned by State legislatures.

Oblameo is the most divisive political figure in the last 100 years.
Hmmm . . . and we're told that Trump isn't President any more.

Which is it? Is he president, or not?
 
Wait until after the third booster.
Third shot or third booster? Not the same thing . . . .

Besides, are you sure about that? Might could be multiple boosters over the next few years if this is as endemic as JDB says it is . . .
. . . maybe as many as three boosters . . . or more!
 
Third shot or third booster? Not the same thing . . . .

Besides, are you sure about that? Might could be multiple boosters over the next few years if this is as endemic as JDB says it is . . .
. . . maybe as many as three boosters . . . or more!

No shit. Kinda what I was trying to get across... but with some nuance.
 
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You all see orange whenever Trump is brought up so there is no point trying to have a rational discussion about it. However, many of Trump's policies (immigration, economics) were 1990's moderate Democrat policies. Democrats were not big on immigration in the 80's and 90's. Up until Clinton they were more protectionist because of their union connections. @twenty02 or @Aloha Hoosier if they think Trump governs like a boilerplate GOP President. They will tell you he does not. He shifted the party to the left on things like labor and trade while he was President. Is he a current Democrat? No, but that is because that party also shifted left. In fact, there are charts/polls showing that the Democrats pushed further left since 1994 than the GOP pushed right. So there is a group of people who used to occupy the right wing of the Democratic Party in the 90's who now find themselves in the GOP.

You are partially right and partially wrong.

Policies matter on the fringe of US politics.

US politics is dominated by culture. We've seen a full scale reversal within the last two generations of where the base reside in both political parties. The northeast was a historic bastion of GOP politics. And the deep South was a Democratic stronghold. Now it's the opposite


Today it's about cities/suburbs... regardless of geographic location within the country. And then everything outside of cities/burbs.

People don't vote on economics (taxes, etc) They vote on the cultural norm that is acceptable in their area of local residence. And then hate on everyone that isn't like them.

Look at the clowns on this board that obsess about Chicago..... when is the last time anyone of them laid a toe in Chicago? Which is a great city with a horrible gang problem on the south side of town, which impacts nobody that doesn't go to that part of town.

And when is the last time a Chicago resident was in a place like Washington, Indiana?

Never.

These people live in two entirely different worlds, with completely different lenses that they view from. Are you surprised they constantly talk past each other?
 
You are partially right and partially wrong.

Policies matter on the fringe of US politics.

US politics is dominated by culture. We've seen a full scale reversal within the last two generations of where the base reside in both political parties. The northeast was a historic bastion of GOP politics. And the deep South was a Democratic stronghold. Now it's the opposite


Today it's about cities/suburbs... regardless of geographic location within the country. And then everything outside of cities/burbs.

People don't vote on economics (taxes, etc) They vote on the cultural norm that is acceptable in their area of local residence. And then hate on everyone that isn't like them.

Look at the clowns on this board that obsess about Chicago..... when is the last time anyone of them laid a toe in Chicago? Which is a great city with a horrible gang problem on the south side of town, which impacts nobody that doesn't go to that part of town.

And when is the last time a Chicago resident was in a place like Washington, Indiana?

Never.

These people live in two entirely different worlds, with completely different lenses that they view from. Are you surprised they constantly talk past each other?
People still like to throw around ideological insults, like "Socialist!" and "Fascist!" and whatnot, but it's hard to see much ideology in the actual alignment of voters. I think you are right; it's culture now. Maybe until the end.
 
You are partially right and partially wrong.

Policies matter on the fringe of US politics.

US politics is dominated by culture. We've seen a full scale reversal within the last two generations of where the base reside in both political parties. The northeast was a historic bastion of GOP politics. And the deep South was a Democratic stronghold. Now it's the opposite


Today it's about cities/suburbs... regardless of geographic location within the country. And then everything outside of cities/burbs.

People don't vote on economics (taxes, etc) They vote on the cultural norm that is acceptable in their area of local residence. And then hate on everyone that isn't like them.

Look at the clowns on this board that obsess about Chicago..... when is the last time anyone of them laid a toe in Chicago? Which is a great city with a horrible gang problem on the south side of town, which impacts nobody that doesn't go to that part of town.

And when is the last time a Chicago resident was in a place like Washington, Indiana?

Never.

These people live in two entirely different worlds, with completely different lenses that they view from. Are you surprised they constantly talk past each other?
Nonsense. People will always vote on the economy (gas/jobs/taxes etc), healthcare. And now to a certain degree in certain areas crime may make the list or whatever else is the flavor of the month but the economy and how people are doing will always top the list.

As for Chicago where do you think it is? We all live close to Chicago. Hell we're an iu board. Half our friends live in Chicago. My best friend lives on the north side and just this past weekend randomly brought up car jackings there. We visit regularly and talk to our friends there regularly. Hell I personally helped a Chicago buddy secure one of the 28 cannabis infuser licenses in Illinois. one of the guys posting here literally drives a truck around Chicago for a living. Crime there is reported regularly on the national news bc it's the big Midwest city so people are more aware of it than kc or Cincy and frankly it's far more important nationally than the rest of the midwest. You act like it's 2,500 miles away. It's most the board's home or neighbor. and crime is on the rise everywhere but again chicago is the jewel of the midwest so it garners the most attention. nevertheless it's really only a talking point for discussion boards and to fill newspapers. peoples' pocketbooks will always carry the day.

The rural/urban divide certainly has differences in cultural norms but that too is less impt than the economy and jobs. How did trump "win" the rural vote? MAGA jobs - bring back manufacturing.

Money - taxes, healthcare, jobs, inflation will always carry the day. The rest is just talk.

 
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You are partially right and partially wrong.

Policies matter on the fringe of US politics.

US politics is dominated by culture. We've seen a full scale reversal within the last two generations of where the base reside in both political parties. The northeast was a historic bastion of GOP politics. And the deep South was a Democratic stronghold. Now it's the opposite


Today it's about cities/suburbs... regardless of geographic location within the country. And then everything outside of cities/burbs.

People don't vote on economics (taxes, etc) They vote on the cultural norm that is acceptable in their area of local residence. And then hate on everyone that isn't like them.

Look at the clowns on this board that obsess about Chicago..... when is the last time anyone of them laid a toe in Chicago? Which is a great city with a horrible gang problem on the south side of town, which impacts nobody that doesn't go to that part of town.

And when is the last time a Chicago resident was in a place like Washington, Indiana?

Never.

These people live in two entirely different worlds, with completely different lenses that they view from. Are you surprised they constantly talk past each other?
Two recent IU grads are neighbors. One across my back yard and the other a block away. They visit Washington, Indiana.

Its probably been five years since I visited Chicago. Nice visit, wouldn’t want to live there.

Sounds like from your post people need to visit the south side and help them instead of saying if you stay away it doesn’t impact you.
 
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Nonsense. People will always vote on the economy (gas/jobs/taxes etc), healthcare. And now to a certain degree in certain areas crime may make the list or whatever else is the flavor of the month but the economy and how people are doing will always top the list.

As for Chicago where do you think it is? We all live close to Chicago. Hell we're an iu board. Half our friends live in Chicago. My best friend lives on the north side and just this past weekend randomly brought up car jackings there. We visit regularly and talk to our friends there regularly. Hell I personally helped a Chicago buddy secure one of the 28 cannabis infuser licenses in Illinois. one of the guys posting here literally drives a truck around Chicago for a living. Crime there is reported regularly on the national news bc it's the big Midwest city so people are more aware of it than kc or Cincy and frankly it's far more important nationally than the rest of the midwest. You act like it's 2,500 miles away. It's most the board's home or neighbor. and crime is on the rise everywhere but again chicago is the jewel of the midwest so it garners the most attention. nevertheless it's really only a talking point for discussion boards and to fill newspapers. peoples' pocketbooks will always carry the day.

The rural/urban divide certainly has differences in cultural norms but that too is less impt than the economy and jobs. How did trump "win" the rural vote? MAGA jobs - bring back manufacturing.

Money - taxes, healthcare, jobs, inflation will always carry the day. The rest is just talk.



I entirely disagree. The biggest predictor of how people vote is what zip code they live in. The numbers are blatantly obvious.

Trump ran his entire political machine on a cultural argument. The economic stuff was simply window dressing that fit cultural predispositions
 
I entirely disagree. The biggest predictor of how people vote is what zip code they live in. The numbers are blatantly obvious.
that's undeniable. but that too is tethered to how well they perceive they are doing - whether it's their business/market/taxes in an upscale town or manufacturing in a poor rural town. i still firmly believe self-interest dictates the lion's share of votes
 
that's undeniable. but that too is tethered to how well they perceive they are doing - whether it's their business/market/taxes in an upscale town or manufacturing in a poor rural town. i still firmly believe self-interest dictates the lion's share of votes

I strongly disagree. That's not where our politics is, actually nowhere close to where it is. Many rust belt inner- city urban areas and widespread rural areas share the same economic issues. But they vote almost polar opposite.... and have become nothing but more polarized in recent decades. It's all culture wars. Today's culture war is rural vs city. That's always been a thing historically, but it's at an extreme level.
 
Two recent IU grads are neighbors. One across my back yard and the other a block away. They visit Washington, Indiana.

Its probably been five years since I visited Chicago. Nice visit, wouldn’t want to live there.

Sounds like from your post people need to visit the south side and help them instead of saying if you stay away it doesn’t impact you.

What does an IU grad being a neighbor have to do with anything? I'm not arguing what people should or shouldn't do. I'm more interested in what they actually do. Telling people what they should do/ think is pissing into the wind and is pointless.
 
I strongly disagree. That's not where our politics is, actually nowhere close to where it is. Many rust belt inner- city urban areas and widespread rural areas share the same economic issues. But they vote almost polar opposite.... and have become nothing but more polarized in recent decades. It's all culture wars. Today's culture war is rural vs city. That's always been a thing historically, but it's at an extreme level.
it's a culture war to the extent rural/urban dwellers differ on who they believe is best equipped to address the issue but the issue has been and always will be the economy (inflation/gas/jobs/market/health costs). media reports on all the social issues because it's more interesting and sensationalized than beating the jobs report day after day but in the end the issue that matters most to most of us will always be the economy imo. that's what the quiet majority's votes are predicated on.

 
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it's a culture war to the extent rural/urban dwellers differ on who they believe is best equipped to address the issue but the issue has been and always will be the economy (inflation/gas/jobs/market/health costs). media reports on all the social issues because it's more interesting and sensationalized than beating the jobs report day after day but in the end the issue that matters most to most of us will always be the economy imo


What people say in exit polls is basically bullshit, IMO. Exit polls in general are pretty much garbage data. I don't believe they actually capture the underlying reasons for voting patterns. The actual voting returns tell the story.
 
What people say in exit polls is basically bullshit, IMO. Exit polls in general are pretty much garbage data. I don't believe they actually capture the underlying reasons for voting patterns. The actual voting returns tell the story.
agreed on exit polls. but we'll have to disagree on what's behind votes. i still believe money is the number one factor behind how one votes.
 
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agreed on exit polls. but we'll have to disagree on what's behind votes. i still believe money is the number one factor behind how one votes

Then why are voting patterns entirely predictable based upon zip code? Many being 80-90+% red/ blue... even when they both share similar economic conditions?
 
Then why are voting patterns entirely predictable based upon zip code? Many being 80-90+% red/ blue... even when they both share similar economic conditions?
Again for the majority of those voters it's who they perceive best satisfies their economic concerns. They differ on what party they think is better for the economy. A maga war on China and low taxes vs 3.5 trillion in stim.

At mid terms jobs/labor/inflation will determine the lion's share of votes.

Bc of where I live and my former life I sit at Starbucks with men worth hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars and billionaires. The founders of world wide tech. Harbour group. Etc. and I drive weekly to rural factories. All these men care about is money and who they perceive is best for their business. They bitch about woke shit but they don't really care. Same with the majority of my middle class crew. Money. Economy. Bc that's our own security and ability to provide. That will always be number one imo - urban or rural.

Not to be a dick women I don't know. I don't know what motivates them as I don't do any business really with any and rarely talk politics with my female friends etc
 
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Again for the majority of those voters it's who they perceive best satisfies their economic concerns. They differ on what party they think is better for the economy. A maga war on China and low taxes vs 3.5 trillion in stim.

At mid terms jobs/labor/inflation will determine the lion's share of votes.

Bc of where I live and my former life I sit at Starbucks with men worth hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars and billionaires. The founders of world wide tech. Harbour group. Etc. and I drive weekly to rural factories. All these men care about is money and who they perceive is best for their business. They bitch about woke shit but they don't really care. Same with the majority of my middle class crew. Money. Economy. Bc that's our own security and ability to provide. That will always be number one imo - urban or rural.

Not to be a dick women I don't know. I don't know what motivates them as I don't do any business really with any and rarely talk politics with my female friends etc


So if it's just money... then they all have total group think? How is that not inherently cultural then?
 
it's a culture war to the extent rural/urban dwellers differ on who they believe is best equipped to address the issue but the issue has been and always will be the economy (inflation/gas/jobs/market/health costs)

Devil's advocate here but...if it were truly about the economy/taxes/market of the place where a voter lives then wouldn't local elections be booming. Traditionally they aren't. I think Twenty is right on this at least as it relates to national elections. Those are almost completely related to cultural issues (even cultural issues masquerading as policy).
 
Devil's advocate here but...if it were truly about the economy/taxes/market of the place where a voter lives then wouldn't local elections be booming. Traditionally they aren't. I think Twenty is right on this at least as it relates to national elections. Those are almost completely related to cultural issues (even cultural issues masquerading as policy).
no because i don't think people equate most economic issues with local elections. they think of taxes, job creation, stimulus, on and on as national matters. culture may influence how individuals perceive the parties' benefit them economically but the most impt issue is still economics
 
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