Woody identifying talent / fit in recruiting.

[jacksback]

We lack talent...period....especially at the guard position. The success of Woody is not only going to come down to recruiting good players but identifying the right guys in the first place. We like to talk constantly about the recruiting rankings and how Duke lands a couple of top ten guys every year. Woody may never recruit like that but if you look around the Big Ten you see teams succeeding with guys ranked no higher than what Archie was landing before Woody got here. Archie either landed more busts than any coach I can remember or he just couldn't develop them (probably a little of both). Painter on the other hand hasn't recruited any better on paper than IU the past many years but has experienced good success while we can't even get into the dance with 68 other teams. Just going by Rivals, Johnny Davis-134, Keegan Murray-43, Jaden Ivey-79.

One thing for sure is Woody needs more shooters and toughness on the team. I'll bet he just shakes his head behind closed doors when talking about our shooting and folding down the stretch.

 

[kkott]

We lack talent...period....especially at the guard position. The success of Woody is not only going to come down to recruiting good players but identifying the right guys in the first place. We like to talk constantly about the recruiting rankings and how Duke lands a couple of top ten guys every year. Woody may never recruit like that but if you look around the Big Ten you see teams succeeding with guys ranked no higher than what Archie was landing before Woody got here. Archie either landed more busts than any coach I can remember or he just couldn't develop them (probably a little of both). Painter on the other hand hasn't recruited any better on paper than IU the past many years but has experienced good success while we can't even get into the dance with 68 other teams. Just going by Rivals, Johnny Davis-134, Keegan Murray-43, Jaden Ivey-79.

One thing for sure is Woody needs more shooters and toughness on the team. I'll bet he just shakes his head behind closed doors when talking about our shooting and folding down the stretch.

Painter builds a complete roster, or complete enough that he can adjust their style of play to fit (ala Carson Edwards last season). Mostly we've gotten higher ranked "athletes" that aren't particularly skilled in any one area. You can live with 1 or 2 of those guys, but you can't not have shooters and guys that understand how to play and will accept their role.

 

[dbmhoosier]

You've got to have shooters and you’ve got to have size. Painter figured that out a long time ago. It seems like every IU team since the Davis era that failed to make the dance did so because they either lacked size or shooting.

 

[bailey777]

We lack talent...period....especially at the guard position. The success of Woody is not only going to come down to recruiting good players but identifying the right guys in the first place. We like to talk constantly about the recruiting rankings and how Duke lands a couple of top ten guys every year. Woody may never recruit like that but if you look around the Big Ten you see teams succeeding with guys ranked no higher than what Archie was landing before Woody got here. Archie either landed more busts than any coach I can remember or he just couldn't develop them (probably a little of both). Painter on the other hand hasn't recruited any better on paper than IU the past many years but has experienced good success while we can't even get into the dance with 68 other teams. Just going by Rivals, Johnny Davis-134, Keegan Murray-43, Jaden Ivey-79.

One thing for sure is Woody needs more shooters and toughness on the team. I'll bet he just shakes his head behind closed doors when talking about our shooting and folding down the stretch.

No we do not lack talent we have enough talent to make the tourney. I know it is a convienent excuse to justify our record and our tanking but there is enough talent to make the ncaa listen to any IU reporter, etc they all think we have enough talent to make the ncaa this year. The team just has a very low bbal iq.

Painter does not run an NBA offencs where you need superior talent to break your guy down off the dribble. Neither does Wisconsin. For this NBA offense to work well you will likley need guys who are very athletic and probably highly ranked. I do not think the NBA offense can succeed if Woodson recruited a bunch of Wisconsin type guys. He is going to need to get very athletic and probably highly ranked guys.

 

[bailey777]

You've got to have shooters and you’ve got to have size. Painter figured that out a long time ago. It seems like every IU team since the Davis era that failed to make the dance did so because they either lacked size or shooting.

We never seem to have size. Painter can always go find a 7'3 guy nobody wants and turn them into studs. He has had like four of them. And I keep hearing we have no talent but it comes down to running sets for your shooters. If I recall a guy like sasha was ranked #374 coming out of high school. The differnece is they run sets to get him open for three pointers all the time. We do not do that for our shooters. Our offencse is basically a mess right now.

0.8517

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[hoosier48]

No we do not lack talent we have enough talent to make the tourney. I know it is a convienent excuse to justify our record and our tanking but there is enough talent to make the ncaa listen to any IU reporter, etc they all think we have enough talent to make the ncaa this year. The team just has a very low bbal iq.

Painter does not run an NBA offencs where you need superior talent to break your guy down off the dribble. Neither does Wisconsin. For this NBA offense to work well you will likley need guys who are very athletic and probably highly ranked. I do not think the NBA offense can succeed if Woodson recruited a bunch of Wisconsin type guys. He is going to need to get very athletic and probably highly ranked guys.

We do lack talent in shooters....This team really has 2 starters on a decent team and one of them is questionable while the other lacks a complete game to the point he won't get drafted.

 

[bailey777]

We do lack talent in shooters....This team really has 2 starters on a decent team and one of them is questionable while the other lacks a complete game to the point he won't get drafted.

Still enough talent at least for this year to make the ncaa. Next year looks rough but missing the ncaa this year is an underachieve. It just is and I get people want to protect woodson, etc but nobody can honestly say this team is not talented enough to make the ncaa. I mean I guess they can say it but I certainly would disagree with them. We just are not very smart and blow games due to poor managment and dumb decisions.

I mean look at Race missed horrible three right at the beginning of the shot clock when we were up 7. It was brick and Wisconsin comes down sinks a three. It was basically five point swing if we had scored. Woodson give him free rain to shoot those which he mostly misses. I think very ill advised to just let him shoot at will. He is bad at three's. You need to have you players in positions where they can succeed I dont care if it is an NBA free rain offense if you cannot make them you should not be shooting them.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Still enough talent at least for this year to make the ncaa. Next year looks rough but missing the ncaa this year is an underachieve. It just is and I get people want to protect woodson, etc but nobody can honestly say this team is not talented enough to make the ncaa. I mean I guess they can say it but I certainly would disagree with them. We just are not very smart and blow games due to poor managment and dumb decisions.

I mean look at Race missed horrible three right at the beginning of the shot clock when we were up 7. It was brick and Wisconsin comes down sinks a three. It was basically five point swing if we had scored. Woodson give him free rain to shoot those which he mostly misses. I think very ill advised to just let him shoot at will. He is bad at three's. You need to have you players in positions where they can succeed I dont care if it is an NBA free rain offense if you cannot make them you should not be shooting them.

Thanks coach. I’m surprised you haven’t gotten a call yet for input.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

No we do not lack talent we have enough talent to make the tourney. I know it is a convienent excuse to justify our record and our tanking but there is enough talent to make the ncaa listen to any IU reporter, etc they all think we have enough talent to make the ncaa this year. The team just has a very low bbal iq.

Painter does not run an NBA offencs where you need superior talent to break your guy down off the dribble. Neither does Wisconsin. For this NBA offense to work well you will likley need guys who are very athletic and probably highly ranked. I do not think the NBA offense can succeed if Woodson recruited a bunch of Wisconsin type guys. He is going to need to get very athletic and probably highly ranked guys.

We don’t either. We play double post at times because race can’t hit. We try to run 4 out too. A 4 out isn’t an nba offense. Painter runs 4/5 out sets every game. WTF are you driveling about? Painter has 8 40% plus shooters. He plays 4 out with eddy in and 5 out with Williams.

 

[bailey777]

We don’t either. We play double post at times because race can’t hit. We try to run 4 out too. A 4 out isn’t an nba offense. Painter runs 4/5 out sets every game. WTF are you driveling about? Painter has 8 40% plus shooters. He plays 4 out with eddy in and 5 out with Williams.

What sets do we run for our shooters?

 

[Victorbmyboy]

What sets do we run for our shooters?

Are you frigging blind?

 

[Victorbmyboy]

What sets do we run for our shooters?

It’s called a side swing. It has 2 options. Parker or Kopp. Parker is primary. It comes on every side out of bounds. It’s worked a ton. Except Parker has been as inconsistent these last 3-4 games. Go back and watch our best games. Parker hit 5 of those in one game. He’s even ran a triple screen. Michigan ram it very effective against us.

 

[Beorik]

It’s called a side swing. It has 2 options. Parker or Kopp. Parker is primary. It comes on every side out of bounds. It’s worked a ton. Except Parker has been as inconsistent these last 3-4 games. Go back and watch our best games. Parker hit 5 of those in one game. He’s even ran a triple screen. Michigan ram it very effective against us.

You have been the voice or reason much of this season and I personally thank you. I am starting to doubt the myth that Indiana people know basketball based on what I see in these forums.

Kopp and Stewart have literally been our 4th and 5th options in our starting unit because that are so one dimensional offensively. Yet there are like 10ish plays every single half that has one of them as the primary or secondary option. This includes as you mentioned nearly every single out of bounds play has them as primary or secondary option.

They are just not hard to guard. Every team just has to sprint at them because neither can consistently beat you with a mid range jumper or drive to the basket.

How many plays do fans want us to run specifically for two guys averaging 5 ppg and 1 assist? I don’t understand at all.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

You have been the voice or reason much of this season and I personally thank you. I am starting to doubt the myth that Indiana people know basketball based on what I see in these forums.

Kopp and Stewart have literally been our 4th and 5th options in our starting unit because that are so one dimensional offensively. Yet there are like 10ish plays every single half that has one of them as the primary or secondary option. This includes as you mentioned nearly every single out of bounds play has them as primary or secondary option.

They are just not hard to guard. Every team just has to sprint at them because neither can consistently beat you with a mid range jumper or drive to the basket.

How many plays do fans want us to run specifically for two guys averaging 5 ppg and 1 assist? I don’t understand at all.

We do run stuff for TJD. It depends where we inbound.

 

[bailey777]

We do run stuff for TJD. It depends where we inbound.

Just think how many more games we could have won if we did not miss ten layups a game.

On offense, the NBA is increasingly driven by data that suggests the two most efficient shots are layups and 3-pointers. That has led to a game that is more open and spaced out and lineups that are increasingly made up of players with 3-point shooting range.

 

[hickorytree1]

Just think how many more games we could have won if we did not miss ten layups a game.

On offense, the NBA is increasingly driven by data that suggests the two most efficient shots are layups and 3-pointers. That has led to a game that is more open and spaced out and lineups that are increasingly made up of players with 3-point shooting range.

If we are as talented as you suggest, why do we miss 10 layups a game? Thanks, Coach

 

[bailey777]

If we are as talented as you suggest, why do we miss 10 layups a game? Thanks, Coach

We are talented we just not very smart and we rush shots. We have talent.

 

[ReadHall84]

We are talented we just not very smart and we rush shots. We have talent.

We do? IU has plenty poor shooters and not enough overall talent. Recent games prove that.

 

[hickorytree1]

We are talented we just not very smart and we rush shots. We have talent.

Of course we have talent, just not enough to win like we want. Every team has talent. We miss layups because we're dumb or lack of talent? It's hard to rush layups, isn't it?

 

[MIS01]

Still enough talent at least for this year to make the ncaa. Next year looks rough but missing the ncaa this year is an underachieve. It just is and I get people want to protect woodson, etc but nobody can honestly say this team is not talented enough to make the ncaa. I mean I guess they can say it but I certainly would disagree with them. We just are not very smart and blow games due to poor managment and dumb decisions.

I mean look at Race missed horrible three right at the beginning of the shot clock when we were up 7. It was brick and Wisconsin comes down sinks a three. It was basically five point swing if we had scored. Woodson give him free rain to shoot those which he mostly misses. I think very ill advised to just let him shoot at will. He is bad at three's. You need to have you players in positions where they can succeed I dont care if it is an NBA free rain offense if you cannot make them you should not be shooting them.

I doubt Woodson was happy with that shot. He gives him free rein within the offense, but not to just jack up shots.

 

[hoosier48]

Just think how many more games we could have won if we did not miss ten layups a game.

On offense, the NBA is increasingly driven by data that suggests the two most efficient shots are layups and 3-pointers. That has led to a game that is more open and spaced out and lineups that are increasingly made up of players with 3-point shooting range.

You do realize if we truly had "talent" as you suggest, we might not miss 10 layups a game right?

 

[bailey777]

Of course we have talent, just not enough to win like we want. Every team has talent. We miss layups because we're dumb or lack of talent? It's hard to rush layups, isn't it?

Ok now you got me no way this is an NCAA team not a chance. In fact we have overachieved clearly. Sorry I did not see the light until now but I should never ever of even thought this was close to an NCAA team. I most certainly owe you an apology and honestly I am shocked people keep even talking abou the NCAA becaue we dont have the talent to get in so season over!

 

[abraxis]

We never seem to have size. Painter can always go find a 7'3 guy nobody wants and turn them into studs. He has had like four of them.

Purdue has picked up another one flying under the radar in the 2022 class, 7'-0" William Berg from Sweden.

 

[jacksback]

We are talented we just not very smart and we rush shots. We have talent.

I would tend to consider mental toughness and basketball smarts as part of the talent description. We are severely lacking in both of those areas plus we can't shoot worth a damn and shooting is most definitely equated with talent. We are lacking in talent plain and simple. I mean seriously, who other than TJD and Race get a sniff of playing time for any decent team?

I guess another way to look at our roster is that it is extremely unbalanced. I think we are lacking in shooting and mental toughness.

Now is Woody a great coach? Let's just call him average for now.

 

[abraxis]

I would tend to consider mental toughness and basketball smarts as part of the talent description. We are severely lacking in both of those areas plus we can't shoot worth a damn and shooting is most definitely equated with talent. We are lacking in talent plain and simple. I mean seriously, who other than TJD and Race get a sniff of playing time for any decent team?

I guess another way to look at our roster is that it is extremely unbalanced. I think we are lacking in shooting and mental toughness.

Now is Woody a great coach? Let's just call him average for now.

Knight was the master of instilling mental toughness in his players. We haven't had it to that degree since his abrupt dismissal. Mental is what wins close games when the physical gets tough. Athletic prowess, keen senses geared for the game of basketball, leadership ability, and mental toughness...put it into one package and Fed Ex it overnight. I'll pay the extra expense.

 

[IU FAN IN W. NC]

No we do not lack talent we have enough talent to make the tourney. I know it is a convienent excuse to justify our record and our tanking but there is enough talent to make the ncaa listen to any IU reporter, etc they all think we have enough talent to make the ncaa this year. The team just has a very low bbal iq.

Painter does not run an NBA offencs where you need superior talent to break your guy down off the dribble. Neither does Wisconsin. For this NBA offense to work well you will likley need guys who are very athletic and probably highly ranked. I do not think the NBA offense can succeed if Woodson recruited a bunch of Wisconsin type guys. He is going to need to get very athletic and probably highly ranked guys.

I believe you are Forgetting Johnnie Davis who can create his own shot at will as he did repeatedly against us and not be mention almost every other team they have played.

 

[Crayfish57]

Knight was the master of instilling mental toughness in his players. We haven't had it to that degree since his abrupt dismissal. Mental is what wins close games when the physical gets tough. Athletic prowess, keen senses geared for the game of basketball, leadership ability, and mental toughness...put it into one package and Fed Ex it overnight. I'll pay the extra expense.

Yogi is really the only close to mentally tough player we have had in 20 yrs

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Yogi is really the only close to mentally tough player we have had in 20 yrs

Victor and Cody say hello.

 

[Crayfish57]

Victor and Cody say hello.

I didnt say best player I said mentally tough. Yogi had the balls to take over at win time at least .

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I didnt say best player I said mentally tough. Yogi had the balls to take over at win time at least .

So did Christian.

 

[bailey777]

I would tend to consider mental toughness and basketball smarts as part of the talent description. We are severely lacking in both of those areas plus we can't shoot worth a damn and shooting is most definitely equated with talent. We are lacking in talent plain and simple. I mean seriously, who other than TJD and Race get a sniff of playing time for any decent team?

I guess another way to look at our roster is that it is extremely unbalanced. I think we are lacking in shooting and mental toughness.

Now is Woody a great coach? Let's just call him average for now.

I would tend to consider mental toughness and basketball smarts as part of the talent description. We are severely lacking in both of those areas plus we can't shoot worth a damn and shooting is most definitely equated with talent. We are lacking in talent plain and simple. I mean seriously, who other than TJD and Race get a sniff of playing time for any decent team?

I guess another way to look at our roster is that it is extremely unbalanced. I think we are lacking in shooting and mental toughness.

Now is Woody a great coach? Let's just call him average for now.

Well one thing that I was not totally aware of but has been brough up recently is Durr, Xavier, Stewart, and Kopp and came from losing programs. Only Durr was on a winning team and that was only one season. The other ones were on really bad teams so it is I guess no surprise these guys do not understand how to win in crunch time.

 

[abraxis]

Yogi is really the only close to mentally tough player we have had in 20 yrs

You know any point guard named "Yogi" is going to be a toughened hombre for the team he runs.

So did Christian.

One time is an aberration, not a trend. "And it's Watford for the win....!"

 

[abraxis]

Well one thing that I was not totally aware of but has been brough up recently is Durr, Xavier, Stewart, and Kopp and came from losing programs. Only Durr was on a winning team and that was only one season. The other ones were on really bad teams so it is I guess no surprise these guys do not understand how to win in crunch time.

Well, of more positive note, at least they're consistent.

 

[Zeester]

It’s called a side swing. It has 2 options. Parker or Kopp. Parker is primary. It comes on every side out of bounds. It’s worked a ton. Except Parker has been as inconsistent these last 3-4 games. Go back and watch our best games. Parker hit 5 of those in one game. He’s even ran a triple screen. Michigan ram it very effective against us.

To qualify to worked a ton our "shooters" need to take/get more shots. They just don't get any shots.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

To qualify to worked a ton our "shooters" need to take/get more shots. They just don't get any shots.

Our guys are bad at finding them too. It’s really a multifaceted problem. A bunch small problems become bigger problems.

 

[Crayfish57]

You know any point guard named "Yogi" is going to be a toughened hombre for the team he runs.

One time is an aberration, not a trend. "And it's Watford for the win....!"

Boo boo would have been even tougher!

 

[abraxis]

Victor and Cody say hello.

Victor and Cody were talented and used it to their advantage but not necessarily tough in the mental sense. What players aren't really overly talented but tough mentally? Galloway maybe, I like to think. Most of the one's we associate with mental toughness are gifted in the physical sense...lumped together as "talented". Jay Edwards was certainly a gifted player who had the ability to win close games but I don't think he would be classified as mentally tough. If he was, he wouldn't have been so easily swayed to leave college early. Can you imagine a senior year of Jay Edwards? As I've noted before, Hulls, Coverdale, Reed...these were some mentally tough players in my book, along with Ferrell and I'm sure I've missed others...who really knows, it's an ambiguous trait to prove. Mentally toughness isn't succinctly seen in the box score.

 

[JB_Nomee]

Yogi is really the only close to mentally tough player we have had in 20 yrs

Yogi certainly fits that category but a name that really sticks out to me also is Jordy Hulls.

 

[abraxis]

Boo boo would have been even tougher!

"Hey there, Little Boo Boo?"

Spike would be well spoken of in the mental toughness meetings. I can't think of any "Spikes" at point guard. There was a Spike Gelhlausen race car driver. He was probably a tough competitor, as most probably are at 230 mph.

 

[cshartle123]

Ok now you got me no way this is an NCAA team not a chance. In fact we have overachieved clearly. Sorry I did not see the light until now but I should never ever of even thought this was close to an NCAA team. I most certainly owe you an apology and honestly I am shocked people keep even talking abou the NCAA becaue we dont have the talent to get in so season over!

You shouldn’t have thought either. They were neither a tourney lock nor not close.