. Oh you don’t have to be a world traveler, you merely need to be able to read. This just lists until Christmas, but Boxing Day, Kwanzaa, and several others come after.
Why I say "Happy Holidays" and not "Merry Christmas"
- Thread starter Rockfish1
- Start date
I don’t know how to engage your incoherent postings, but nothing in this agnostic suggesting “Happy Holidays” implies that I’m talking about something holy.
Far be it from me to complain that someone else is posting like an asshole, but from one asshole to another, it’s best not to post like a dumbass while you’re doing it. If you’re gonna be an asshole, you gotta be right. Otherwise you look like a fool.
That is so true. You've got to pick your battles .... most things are really not worth getting upset /offended about. For example, I think there are people on this forum that really get upset about what someone posts but to me it's just not worth it. This place is just entertainment to me..... and I learn a few things along the way.
The vast majority of those who use "Happy Holidays" likely intend nothing but good cheer. But if you know that this makes some people uncomfortable, why would you insist on it? That seems gratuitously impolite and at odds with the ostensible spirit of the greeting.
Isn't that also a true statement? The problem is that we don't know what most people prefer. If you know for a fact what someone prefers then you should use that but I really don't know what any of my friends prefer and I'm 100% sure that they wouldn't be offended by either phrase.
According to CO., the Golden Rule means others don’t get to be offended unless you are. He also thinks the central message of A Christmas Carol is that everyone must say “Merry Christmas.” I hope he isn’t selling this nonsense in Cliffs Notes.
I say “Merry Christmas” to those I know to be Christians (even though I’m not Christian). But how on earth would a Christian be offended by “Happy Holidays”? I guess it’s just that intolerable to some in the dominant culture to catch a glimpse of the possibility that their experience isn’t universal. Not only must I wish Christians happiness on their religious holiday, but I must do so in a way that acknowledges that theirs is the only way. If that’s what it takes to be polite, then I guess I’ll have to be rude.
Why should anybody be offended by “Merry Christmas”? We all know that “Happy Holidays” is a euphemism for Merry Christmas. It’s also abundantly clear that the Christmas season is pretty much a secular observance. Christmas is the reason this thread exists—not Boxing Day as zeke would have us believe.
I’ll spot you New Year’s Day, and even Hanukkah (which ended 2 weeks ago) You got 15 holidays to go to make your point. That said, do you say happy holidays after New Year’s Day? I bet you don’t. Millions of Christians observe Christmas on January 7. To be fair and to empathize with others you should continue with Happy Holidays during the first week of January—long after the trees are in the recycle lots and the lights and wreaths are packed away.
You linked to an author who said Christmas is religious by its very linguistic derivation from Christ's name. Same logic applies to the word holiday, maestro:
Origin
Old English hāligdæg ‘holy day.’
As far as I can tell, your argument about politeness is equally applicable to Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Maybe you should stick to Happy Days!Old English hāligdæg ‘holy day.’
I actually do. And where do you live that everyone takes trees and lights down right after Christmas? Around here we leave them up a long time. Lots of friends are out of school until Jan. 7 this year. When I haven’t seen people especially, if I see them in early January I still say Happy Holidays to them. This is the stupidest argument. Happy Holidays should offend no one, so why not use it? Because Rush and other nuts are telling you that you should be offended.
You keep telling me When Hanukkah ended. Do you think I don’t know? I lit candles every night. You are free to come speak with 90 women about how they feel about people telling them Merry Christmas hundreds of times every single winter. Open invitation.
In high school I goofed up a shot on the seventh hole of the IU golf course and in anger threw my 3 iron as far as I could. It got stuck high up in a tree. In my shorts, I shinnied up to get it. Next morning I woke up with the most agonizing case of poison ivy ever. Learned my lesson. Anger is a pointless feeling. That helped me a lot in my future golf outings, because I simply didn't get angry when I messed up. I was tempted to on occasion, but I had a vivid awareness of its inanity.
I broke my arm pretty badly one year. I was waiting forever in the emergency ward with no relief in sight and in a lot of pain. Low priority evidently. Then I thought to myself, in a few days I won't be feeling this pain any more. The pain immediately diminished significantly and didn't really bother me any more. Why? I don't know. Maybe you can find an article to explain it. All I know is that I felt a lot better and the pain never returned to such a unpleasant degree that night..
As far as hitting my thumb with a hammer, yup, I sure feel pain, but I see no point in adding anger to it, so I don't. What feelings are you afflicted with? I don't think the offense being addressed in this thread is associated with physical pain, is it?
DO you behave this obtusely with your students?
(just helping you learn the meaning of obtuse...)
Interesting that you keep using pain to prove your point about feelings. How are you using the word feelings? It's usable as both emotions and sensations. Pain is more of a sensation to me whereas anger and sadness are emotions. Taking offense at impoliteness is more of an emotional reaction, as I see it, than a sensation.
That's fine. As I already said, I certainly agree with going out of your way to be polite when you know you should. I'll happily wish my Christian friends a Merry Christmas and my pagan friends a Happy Yule. Going out of my way to do the opposite would be a dick move, no doubt about it.
The point of a holiday greeting is to sincerely wish someone well during the holiday season, and I'm more than happy to tailor my greeting to fit how other people celebrate the season.
My point was mainly about applying this to the generic situation in which you are throwing out random greetings to people you don't really know. I bought beer a couple of nights ago at the liquor store, and the clerk and I wished each other a Merry Christmas. I have no idea if he is a Christian, and he has no idea if I am. It was just a generic way for us to be polite to each other.
In that situation, if someone takes offense at the form a genuine holiday greeting takes, I say screw 'em, to put it bluntly. If I have no reason to know they would take a particular form of the greeting with offense, that's not my problem.
Do wish people "happy holidays" when the holiday when their holiday is over? Maybe you are getting a head start on 2019?
I don’t have any students, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. Even if I had students, I wouldn’t know what you’re talking about. What is the frequency, Kenneth?
I stand corrected.
In Real Analysis in college we had a test in which it took me two pages to prove a theorem, as our professor expected. We were allowed to use any theorems our prof had proven in class. To the professor's chagrin, one clever student spotted a two-line proof using an already-proven theorem.
Once I recalled the obvious holy aspect of the word holiday, there was a simple two-line proof that Happy Holidays is intrinsically no more polite than Merry Christmas. This of course reduced your post to the simple but banal message: Be polite. Nothing wrong with that.
The difference between my math professor and you is that he admiringly admitted that he'd overlooked the simplicity.
Merry Holimas, Rockfish1!
According to this article neurobiologists regards emotions as the body's response to some stimulus--feelings are "what arise as the brain interprets emotions". According to wikipedia this modern neurobiological model can be traced back to William James.
I give the example of pain to illustrate the idea of a feeling as something that happens to us rather than something that is chosen. Clearly it is pretty complicated topic and I claim no special expertise.
The idea you and CoH have of feelings or emotions being something you choose strikes me as inconsistent with what I know but the topic is complicated, my knowledge limited and the world vast.
In as much as human beings are the consequences of evolution it makes sense that whatever we call sensations or emotions would work outside the direct control of whatever we call consciousness. These sensations and feelings are how we learn about ourselves in the the world...if we could simply choose our sensations...for example, decide that burning our hands on the stove feels good...we might learn to behave in ways that were really not good for us. This neurobiologic structure has some well known flaws. People can experience chronic pain or depression, for example. They can become addicts or commit suicide.
I never said this. I don't necessarily believe it.
The brain is indeed complicated. Much goes on in the subconscious about which we are unaware. But that doesn’t mean we have no control. We exercise that control in a myriad of ways and we don’t even exercise it in the same way for similar situations. What we reach for when we open the refrigerator door is both a product of consciousness and of our subconscious. One time you might reach for a beer, another a carrot stick, or another a pint of ice cream. We decide, but often our decision is influenced by subconscious factors such as mental stress or physical exhaustion after exercise. But the fact remains--we decide.
What and who matters to each of us is a learned response. It's a product of thousands of major and minor decisions we make on a daily basis. The pleasure/pain center of the brain is probably the single most influential aspect of our mental decision-making process. If we find pleasure in, say eating ice cream once, we are more likely to eat it again. If we find pleasure in controlling another individual's behavior by complaining about a certain annoyance, we will complain again. And so on. Altering this pattern takes motivation and something called willpower. But the threshold is always our desires driven by pleasure and pain. That involves making decisions.
So far politeness is running 50-50 today.
I received 4 junk solicitation emails this morning.
2 had “Merry Christmas” in the title. One was from an airline and another from an appliance maker.
1 had “seasons greetings” from a health care provider.
1 had “happy holidays” from a 501(c)(3).
I received 4 junk solicitation emails this morning.
2 had “Merry Christmas” in the title. One was from an airline and another from an appliance maker.
1 had “seasons greetings” from a health care provider.
1 had “happy holidays” from a 501(c)(3).
Well, I wish you all a Merry Christmas, with sincere hope you all take that as a warm and heartfelt wish of peace, good health and prosperity to you and yours. I myself am an agnostic bordering on atheist but I try my level best to find the beauty that I believe resides somewhere in all peoples and all beliefs. So I share my favorite Christmas song, sung by one my favorite performers. As I listen to the lyrics, the accompaniment, the choir It never fails to bring chills and a tear while reminiscing about holidays long past and memories of spending them with family and friends gone but not forgotten.
Actually 25-75. Season's greetings is the only neutral greeting you listed. That's what Rock is looking for. He just flubbed it.
Actually, that's probably true. Wishing me a Happy Holiday presumes that I both have the capacity and desire for happiness. What if I don't? Way to rub salt in it buddy.
Seasons Greetings is all purpose regardless of the season, and further allows for any sort of greeting that the recipient might wish. A wildcard, if you will.
We're having tamales for Christmas Eve dinner. Enjoy your ham, suckers.
You sound like an old high school friend who would annoy everyone by responding to "happy this" or "Merry that" with a comment that the greeting has placed far too much pressure on him to enjoy the day as he is now responsible for the well wishers happiness. That added responsibility is just too much stress for him.
Burritos for me. SWMBO is having cheese, crackers, peanuts, chocolate, pudding, and whatever other junk she can find.
Wassup, bitches.
Shepherd's pie, but instead of ground beef, I'm making it with stewing beef chunks, seasoned with a shit ton of chili powder, garlic and Lea & Perrin's.
Have you never felt down and simply decided to be upbeat instead and then were by choice alone? If not, try it now. Decide to be ecstatic and see if you can do it. Maybe you won't succeed in being ecstatic but you might notice some change in mood. Do it without any crutch, such as thinking about a beautiful sunset. Just focus on the decision alone and nothing else.
Let's look at Damasio's treatment of "consciousness":
Damasio: Consciousness, much like our feelings, is based on a representation of the body and how it changes when reacting to certain stimuli. Self-image would be unthinkable without this representation. I think humans have developed a self-image mainly to establish a homeostatic organism. The brain constantly needs up-to-date information on the body's state to regulate all the processes that keep it alive. This is the only way an organism can survive in an ever changing environment. Emotions alone—without conscious feelings—would not be enough. Adults would be as helpless as babies if they suddenly lost their self-image.
Damasio's (and your) view strike me as deterministic. At the same time, you both subtly imply an actor who must have some free will in some sense.To elaborate, I see some basic problems with his description that are left unanswered in neurobiology and modern academic science generally.
Basic #1: He implies there is an actor but never addresses where or what that actor is. For example, he says,"...humans have developed...." Okay, where is that human who develops stuff precisely located? Note that you also imply such an actor when you say "we could simply choose." Well, where are you and how do you make any choice?
Basic #2: What and where precisely is consciousness?
Basic #3: Where exactly are the "self-image" and "information" stored? Where is any memory stored for that matter?
Will have to come back to this later. You and CoH raise an interesting premise for a thought experiment. Given the choice about how to feel what should I choose? If I have the choice to choose my feelings but refuse to do so then what produces the feelings I don't choose?
I'm not saying that we only choose in each present moment. We can be affected by prior choices, decisions, and considerations that we're no longer aware of and could still have some influence on us. Furthermore, we can obviously be influenced by others and the physical universe. Using your pain example, if a rock suddenly hits us on the shoulder, our body is stimulus-response programmed to send pain signals from the shoulder to the brain. These pain signals are interpreted as a danger warning and the stimulus-response mechanism acts relatively instantaneously for survival reasons. That in no way demonstrates that we are the stimulus-response mechanism nor that we are not. Our awareness or "consciousness" could be independent of the body's s/r mechanism.
Taking that further, what does pain threshold mean? Why can some tolerate far more pain than others? Electrically, the signal is the signal. Why do some crumple in agony and others fight to the death?
This is akin to me going to Israel and being offended when someone wishes me a happy Hanukkah.
Just small minded and ignorant.
Being offened is one thing. Feeling compelled to write about a harmless personal offense for the New York Times is a self-absorbed claim of superiority.
What does publishing it say about the NYT?
It says they are losing readership and don't understand what to do about it.
The author of the article referred to Christmas being the dominant cultural holiday here in the US. Which it is.
I assume Hanukkah would be the same in Israel.
Seems incredibly ignorant to move to there and then complain when they greet me in their traditional manner.
Seems this supposed lesson on politeness has seriously gone off the rails.
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