That’s not what I said, did you read what I was replying to? And I explained it once already.
Don’t leave. We need some sanity. Or maybe just stay in the few decent threads we have that aren’t political?
A
anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
I don't like Trump. I don't think he handled our response well. But he's not responsible for the worldwide spread of COVID variants or their spread in the U.S.
First, the variants didn't originate in the United States. Unless we were going to forever shut our borders to all outside people, U.S. policy was not going to prevent us from getting the variants. Again, this was a worldwide pandemic.
Second, many of the variants were discovered before the vaccine even became available. So, no, those weren't "driven in part by slow acceptance of vaccination."
Tracking SARS-CoV-2 variants
All viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, change over time. Most changes have little to no impact on the virus’ properties. However, some changes may affect the virus’s properties, such as how easily it spreads, the associated disease severity, or the performance of...
Omicron, Delta, Alpha, and More: What To Know About the Coronavirus Variants
New variants are an expected part of the evolution of viruses, and that includes SARS CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. Yale Medicine provides some background on key variants that have surfaced during the course of the pandemic.
www.yalemedicine.org
Third, as for Trump being the reason for U.S. vaccine hesitancy (which again, wouldn't even matter regarding the variants), Trump's policies led to the quick development of the very vaccine we are discussing; he received the vaccine; and he said it worked. Indeed, he bragged about being responsible for the vaccine.
Fourth, it doesn't appear Trump stumping for the vaccine's effectiveness more would have mattered with people who were against it from the beginning:
"Back in March, as coronavirus vaccines were first made available, a CBS News poll conducted with YouGov tried an experiment to gauge how much influence Trump or President Joe Biden might have on the vaccine-hesitant.
First, they asked Americans about their likelihood of getting vaccinated. Several days later, they followed up again, but first informed some respondents that either Biden or Trump had endorsed the vaccine. Hearing about Trump, they found, did increase some Republicans' willingness to get vaccinated. But the effect came among those who had previously been on the fence; those who were outright resistant didn't budge."
Trump's endorsement of vaccines aligns with most Republicans' views -- but it may be an uphill battle to convince the holdouts
Former President Donald Trump has recently been vocal about the benefits of vaccination against Covid-19 -- a position that's in line with the overwhelming majority of Americans who've chosen to get vaccinated, including the bulk of his own party.
www.cnn.com
You and your conspiracy theories. Yes, the Chinese wiped out all their own people because they cared so much about elections in the US. You believing this and then calling others dumb, is just peak WC for you. Congrats.
Ok I’m going to have to give you credit for that one. Much as it pains me.
And? It’s been great making a pandemic political, hasn’t it? I just skimmed it but I don’t think the author is talking about letting China off the hook. But the post I was responding to wasn’t even talking about Covid specifically.You can’t be serious.
Let’s Declare a Pandemic Amnesty
Let’s focus on the future, and fix the problems we still need to solve.www.theatlantic.com
You think the Chinese leaders GAF about decreasing their population? You just have no ability to think beyond anything the first liberal news source gives you. Do you even have any idea about the history of China? They used to bind young womens feet so they wouldn't grow often resulting in amputations and death for one. That should hit your my body my choice mantra hard. That is just one. You honestly think the Chinese govt would care about sacrificing a still small part of their population for overall gain? And you call others dumb? Its just the peakest WC for you. But hey, apparently you have better protection here than Nancy Pelosi's estate had so there is that.
Anyone who lost their job or let their career get ruined over a vaccination has a lot more problems than that.
WTH is Q? I have no idea and dont really care, I hear it talked about. I live day to day life amongst real people and some are crazy for sure. You come on here preaching you should be able to kill babies because it is your body your choice but if some one doesn't want to get a hurriedly rushed shot with no long term studies and no consequences to the maker if it turns out to have problems. You think it is fine for the government to allow that to be mandatory for employment? What world of unicorns do you live in?
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Then I’ve no clue what you’re talking about. I’ll put that on me.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
That’s grossly irresponsible and despicable. You should take that one back - it’s beneath you.
Don't worry she has no clue what she is talking about either.
Oh i went back and read and it was talking about Covid at the time, but then just the line that liberals weren’t interested in accountability seemed like a blanket statement to me.
Do you really have any idea what you post or just see someone from the right posted so I better go say something regardless if I have a clue what I am even talking about? My body my choice.
Ok I don’t think people had careers ruined because of it. How is that possible? Military maybe? I just still have a hard time understanding why anyone would refuse to be vaccinated at least the first time. i hope those people got better jobs and in this market they probably did.
You don't think, That would be the keyword to this post. Lots of people have been at odds with employers over this including athletes/coaches dealing with large amounts of money. Washington States football coach was fired over him choosing his rights not to get it for one.
So if you were employed by someone that said if you get an abortion you will be fired what is your response to that?
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
The military notwithstanding - it is unconscionable to fire someone for refusing a vaccine - especially a new one that very early on was seen as not effective against slowing the spread. Anyone with a working brain could see that it wasn’t stopping Delta. Mandating vaccinations and resulting in employment terminations for those not at risk will go down as some of the worst decisions of all time.
Even New York recognizes it and is making reparations to muni and government workers. Companies would do well to track down which managers instituted mandatory vaccines and fire those managers. They proved they can’t critically think and analyze information.
A New York Court Just Reinstated Fired Unvaccinated Workers – What That Could Mean For Workers Across The Country
A recent case from the New York Supreme Court for Richmond County may have laid out a roadmap for unvaccinated employees seeking to challenge vaccination requirements. It may also give clues to employers looking for ways to ensure their employment vaccination mandates survive legal challenges.
www.forbes.com
Really??
Okay let's go with saying the Chinese govt wanted Trump out of office. How would that brain storming strategy session go even if they started with 'there are no bad ideas so let's get them all out?
Where does 'purposely release a virus onto the world that had no cure that would impact people, including us in this brain storming session with no discretion and would f*"k up the global supply chain that cost China zillions in business losses' sound like an idea that they'd go.....yeah, that's the one.
Or is it more likely that a coronavirus strain broke out and wreaked havoc (like when the other coronaviruses in the past broke out. They have been around since the 60's) while Trump happened to be president (like Mers did while Obama was and SARS did while GWB was in office).
Surely they could come up with ideas better than that if that truly was their goal.
I mean the 'Bill Gates is trying to cull the global population' at least makes more logical sense....and that's nonsense.
It's extraordinary how the Chinese were able to predict so accurately how badly Trump would sh!t the bed in response to their dastardly plan to murder hundreds of thousands of their own people and cost themselves billions in economic losses in order to influence the 2020 U.S. election. They are lucky that he is such a clueless dumfuk or their secret plan to get rid of Trump might have backfired.
He was a dumb kid that put himself in a bad situation via bad decisions.... got attacked by lunatics that were decades older than him. Nobody mourns the loss of the lunatics... do you?
Do you expect to be taken seriously posting this bullshit?
What coronavirus in history didn't mutate? It's a ****ING airborne virus, that was a worldwide pandemic. It was obvious from the very beginning that it would be something that would be endemic forever, even if vaccines provided a bit of safety from extreme illness.
You're right even if that was the plan a lot of things would have to happen because as said before, external crisis's are typically good for incumbents as they build sympathy in voters, they build a reluctance to change leadership in the middle of one and they offer strong leaders the opportunity to unite and galvanize the country.
See GWB who was the only Republican president to win the popular vote in the past 30 years who was coming out
of 9/11 and leading the start of the War in Afghanistan.
But back to the plan, think of the risk/reward. What if it galvanized the voter base and Trump rode that to victory. Now they killed 6.5 million, had the world pissed at them as it originated from them (wouldn't they at least plant the outbreak in another country), they cost them billions....and Trump used that to win!!!???
Someone would definitely get fired from that 'Get rid of Trump' committee.
To be fair I believe that delta (which was the meanest of the variants) came out of an area that had a very low vax rate.
Maybe India, I can't remember and I'm too lazy to look it up.
Of course talking myself in circles means that while how frustrating it was to try to convince someone to protect themselves and in turn would help to protect the community they roamed around....having areas of the world being under vaxxed was going to be more susceptible to it mutating even if our vax rates were crazy high.
Again, was it a futile effort in hindsight....possibly/probably.
I think for many (including me) it became more about the the attitudes, reactions and arguments over something that I believed was a pretty straightforward crisis.
It really opened my eyes at how our communication networks are completely f#$ked and how divided we are. I really thought, especially since supposedly more elderly viewers watch Fox news who were more susceptible, that the messaging would be more unified during an actual crisis.
Nope.
This strongly implies the release was accidental. The link the OP put up as proof of Chinese culpability was a series of correspondence of "OMG, we screwed up and the central authorities are going to have our head". If the OP is proof, your take cannot be right. If you are right, the correspondence ain't proof.
That still didn't give him the right to kill them. After the first shooting, those lunatics were trying to stop an active shooter.
I agree with the courts, that he held the people attacking him accountable within the law.
His post was spot on. Your narrative has mutated from hoax to “obvious from the beginning that it would be endemic”
This "theory" is vital to the conservatives, because it means Trump was so important and threatening that China, who has centuries more history than us, would not be capable of withstanding his inept leadership for 4 more short years. I mean, he was on the verge of wiping out their entire civilization, even though it had survived since the BCs and up until 2016. By 2024, no one would remember they had even ever existed.
there are many people who have suffered lingering and sometimes permanent health problems (including death).
it's still very early but it's clear there are risks and who knows about the long term?
blindly forcing/coercing everyone into compliance with the shot(s) is wrong, unjustified
and evil
not everything is politics
The jury who saw and heard all of the evidence disagreed.
Assuming there is any evidence that the vaxx killed him...that would be one.
there are many people who have suffered lingering and sometimes permanent health problems (including death).
it's still very early but it's clear there are risks and who knows about the long term?
blindly forcing/coercing everyone into compliance with the shot(s) is wrong, unjustified
and evil
not everything is politics
Now do the millions that avoided serious illnessa and or death due to the vaxx.
I'll wait.
This is what’s maddening. It’s crazy how many people believe anyone dying under the age of 60 is proof that Anthony Fauci secretly poisoned everyone with a nefarious ingredient in the COVID vaccine.
I suppose that’s what happens when you get your information from late night YouTube scrolling.
No, his point was bullshit and as an "expert" in that field he knows it was bullshit. Brad's post up above pretty much lays out the reasoning as to why Shooter's assertion that vaccine skeptics were the cause of variants is complete and utter horseshit.
Secondly, you have Twenty's position about COVID completely wrong, including any change in position. You are exactly the type of person who jumped on any deviation from the accepted narrative (even when the accepted narrative was wrong) that this thread was talking about.
Finally, Shooter likes to do a "Call to Expertise" to buttress his arguments on the forum with this topic quite often. When he mixes in things like the post that Twenty took to task that are verifiably wrong and easily proven at that, it erodes his credibility. This is a micro example of how things with COVID were treated. And instead of addressing the actual points being made, we constantly see this call back to extreme points that some have made as opposed to actually addressing the actual realistic point being put forward. I believe this happens because people took COVID and how they reacted to it as some sort of identity.
The shots did not stop people from getting sick, they did not stop the spread, they did have adverse effects for some people, COVID was more serious to people of advanced age and decreased immune systems, it was far less lethal to the young, locking kids out of school was an overreaction that played out far longer than it should have because of politics (namely the teacher's unions). The masks were mostly window dressing and the help they provided was small enough that forcing people into them (particularly the cloth ones) wasn't worth the vitriol.
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