Yeah, shit like "oops, a virus we were doing gain of function research on got out of our lab on accident and admitting we fudged up would make us look bad and lose face, so let's not say anything...."
You’re blaming the cops instead of the criminal again.What about the person whose "negligence and incompetency" allowed the Chinese to commit either the crime of deliberately releasing the virus or hiding the fact that the virus had emerged?
The CDC/US starting in the Bush Admin had established an on ground presence in China to MONITOR the Chinese research community and INSURE that nothing like Covid happened. Or at the very least, to provide first hand knowledge to the US to prevent us from being blindsided in the event of a breakout.
The system worked perfectly thruout both the Bush and Obama Admins, until in the summer of 2019 the Trump Admin cut off the funding (because he wanted to use the funds elsewhere), and the virologist who had manned the role saw her position eliminated and was forced to return to the US.
Again it was the RESPONSIBILITY of the scientist stationed in China to monitor any possible hot spots, and it's no coincidence that after she returned to the US in July 2019, the virus emerged around Nov 2019. Dr Quick may not have been able to prevent the original outbreak. But she sure as hell would have been able to advise US officials as soon as it occurred in Nov, rather than us finding out second hand in Jan 2020.
Trump apologists will resist accepting his culpability, but this aspect of the catastrophe is strictly on him...
"The American disease expert, a medical epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency, left her post in July, according to four sources with knowledge of the issue. The first cases of the new coronavirus may have emerged as early as November, and as cases exploded, the Trump administration in February chastised China for censoring information about the outbreak and keeping U.S. experts from entering the country to help."
"Zhu and the other sources said the American expert, Dr. Linda Quick, was a trainer of Chinese field epidemiologists who were deployed to the epicenter of outbreaks to help track, investigate and contain diseases.
As an American CDC employee, they said, Quick was in an ideal position to be the eyes and ears on the ground for the United States and other countries on the coronavirus outbreak, and might have alerted them to the growing threat weeks earlier."
Exclusive: U.S. axed CDC expert job in China months before virus outbreak
Several months before the coronavirus pandemic began, the Trump administration eliminated a key American public health position in Beijing intended to help detect disease outbreaks in China, Reuters has learned.www.reuters.com
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Color me shocked that they seem to go out of their way to emphasize "of the PUBLICLY available information". Then go on to say that "New information, MADE publicly available" could change everything later.Are you suggesting it originated in other countries?
Also, can you clarify why Ranger’s post is wrong given this from the Senate report?
That sure makes me wonder what the Not publicly available info says.
“Didn’t respond well” is the euphemism of the year. It’s like saying the KKK weren’t the best at race relations.
No. Clumsy wording on my part. But you know what I was getting at.
Are you claiming that "more likely than not" = "correct"?
But that doesn't mean the Chinese knew about it earlier, right? I agree the Chinese have not been forthcoming to the extent that any responsible government should have been. Not even close. But, is there evidence the Chinese knew about it earlier than they claim?that’s quite a false equivalency. It may have happened, but attempts to cover up the origins and timing are pretty important facets of the circumstances.
For example Milan:
Researchers find coronavirus was circulating in Italy earlier than thought
The new coronavirus was circulating in Italy in September 2019, a study by the National Cancer Institute (INT) of the Italian city of Milan shows, signaling that it might have spread beyond China earlier than thought.www.reuters.com
1. True
2. Outside Shooter absolutely insisted that the disease was naturally occurring, a prior thread was linked recently. OS, unsurprisingly, won’t own up to this. Several other posters have thrown rocks at that suggestion as well.
3. The simple premise of learning from mistakes should be the impetus to investigate to conclusion what happened here. If US taxpayer money is involved, we should know how it contributed. Overall, I find the “oh well, what’s done is done” you portray astonishing. While treatments etc don’t care where it came from, prevention is the best cure. If you don’t know how it originated, how can you do so? This must be understood, & clearly your partisanship is clouding your thoughts on this.
4. See above.
"reasonable to conclude," "more likely than not," and "New information...could change this assessment" - quite the word salad of hedging in a partisan report that seems to be light on science.it’s not a conservative position, it’s literally from the senate HELP report
Oh, and that HELP report was not an official report of the entire HELP committee. Rather, it was an interim report by Republican oversight staff, signed by one Republican senator (Burr).
And there's more hedging in the report itself:
Based on precedent and genomics, the most likely scenario for a zoonotic origin of the COVID-19 pandemic is that SARS-CoV-2 crossed over the species barrier from an intermediate host to humans.75 However, the available evidence is also consistent, perhaps more so, with a direct bat-to-human spillover. Both scenarios remain plausible and, in the absence of additional information, should be considered equally valid hypotheses.
And while "reasonable to conclude that... more likely than not" is an acceptable measuring stick to declare that Covid resulted from a lab leak, the Republicans on the HELP committee want the alternative held to a much higher standard:
"Advocates of a zoonotic origin theory must provide clear and convincing evidence that a natural zoonotic spillover is the source of the pandemic, as was demonstrated for the 2002-2004 SARS outbreak."
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
(3) isVERY important. We now have the tech and know-how allowing us to make viruses that could kill us all. We need to be hyper aware of safety protocols, etc.
Coronavirus: What did China do about early outbreak?
China and the US are in a tense war of words but what actually happened during the early outbreak?
www.bbc.com
Sorry, I should have recognized as a PU guy you’d need clear direction. My engineers are the same way. Pretty easy to google…
Or incompetence or carelessness. In any event, that allows people to place blame. That's what is driving all the contentiousness. Those damn Chinese unleashed this on the world, goddammit.
The virus was released to destroy Trump, because they couldn’t defeat him without destroying his economy! There were plenty of republicans in on it too.
We know many of you don’t value accountability for one’s actions, but for many of us it is important.
No. Spoliation. Lack of transparency. Refusal to allow timely investigation. That is what should drive contentiousness.
No question. Regardless of the origin.
Um, the article you linked to does not say the anything about the China knowing about it prior to December of 2019. In fact, everything in that article was generally known more or less contemporaneous with the end of December 2019 - January 2020. Also, that article suggests there was only a 4-day delay (still too long) between Chinese authorities (i.e., other than doctors, etc.) knowing about the outbreak and Chine then reporting it to the WHO:Coronavirus: What did China do about early outbreak?
China and the US are in a tense war of words but what actually happened during the early outbreak?
Sorry, I should have recognized as a PU guy you’d need clear direction. My engineers are the same way. Pretty easy to google…
27 December - Chinese authorities are told about a Sars-like disease by a doctor in a provincial hospital in Hubei province.
By this point, cases are multiplying.
31 December - Chinese officials confirm they are investigating 27 cases of viral pneumonia and dispatch a team of health experts to the region.
Authorities say seven are in a critical condition yet no human-to-human transmission has been identified.
The authorities alert the World Health Organization (WHO).
The authorities alert the World Health Organization (WHO).
By no means was China forthcoming. Not even slightly. But what I was asking about was evidence that they knew about Covid prior to December of 2019. Would not surprise me at all if they did.
...with the Chinese government. For whatever reason people want to make this a Dem vs GOP issue. Its not at all. Its a Chinese Government vs the world issue. And unfortunately like all land wars in Asia, its not winnable.
I am saying Mitch McConnell was one of the ringleaders.
There are many people, who "china" was not the center of concern. The center of concern, still, is that the research being conducted was made illegal on US dirt, so our gov simply uses multiple levels of intermediaries to launder the fact that we are paying for the research, that we are not supposed to do here. And of all people, who do they go to, China. Typical Sciop.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
I think this (cosmic's post) is actually a valid criticism.
It doesn't mean that Trump is responsible for all COVID deaths in the U.S.--as Biden cynically argued in the 2020 debates--but it is worth considering, going forward.
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That is possible, but it would be very difficult to explain the spread of the infection.
By my earlier analogy, say I live and work in Columbus Indiana. I spend 10 hr. days at work, and some of that is in the lab and suited up, but there are a host of people interactions at work... in meetings, cafeteria, getting coffee, bathroom... times where I am clocked out of the BSL4 space suit lab and interacting with people.
So, I got sick mishandling a bat. One day after work I travelled 20 miles to Seymour, Indiana.
Then a whole host of infections radiated out in concentric circles from Seymour Indiana. The one mile radius was highest, then 3, then 5, then 10, then 15, then 20 (but a huge drop-off in each circle as you go out). By contrast, no infections at all radiated out from the place where I worked and interacted, most of the day, every day that I was infected. Columbus stayed relatively clean, until later.
Simply put, you would have to be able explain that very focused viral spread, centered nowhere near the lab that supposedly leaked. Experts in infectious diseases say it doesn't fit and is impossible.
The cops here(US and the rest of the world governments) owe the criminals(China) a boat load of money. And how we got there is as bipartisan as anything could be.
You actually believe that it wasn't merely a coincidence how this was unleashed on the world heading into the 2020 election that other countries and interests in the left wing of the USA knew they would lose .
How can anyone be so insanely stupid to think that this was all some kind plan to make sure Trump wouldnt win the election ?
You aren't very bright are you?
I think he called you stupid. You going to take that from him?
IIRC from reportage around the time? Yes. Am I going to go and try and track that down now? No. There was so much throttling of information that occurred around that time that I doubt you could trust any internet search that goes back.
That analogy doesn't work when the 2 places being talked about are blocks away from each other as opposed to 20 miles.
Yeah, they get things right from time to time. I find with them it usually depends on your viewpoint of the topic as to how on the nose you (not you, but the decider) feel they are.
Obviously my joking reply wasn't read with the intent I meant. I was agreeing with you I thought I made it obvious but maybe not?
Right back at you , anyone that thinks Covid was just an accident is really stupid.
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