He became a celebrity and forgot he was a scientist.
Why not just stop here? The rest of your post is an attempted deflection.
Told you 2020 was completely rigged.
Intentionality certainly matters to a degree.
But, is negligence and/or incompetency no longer a crime worthy of punishments? At the least, the Chinese meet those definitions and should be held accountable for the pandemic and all of the deaths, illness and economic fallout.
He forced into a celebrity role. Half the country wants a savior and the other half wants a villain. He is neither.
He wasn’t forced into anything. He loved being a rock star.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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We agree. It’s the lies that followed that are the problem.
Could be. Still a rock star with out fans is not a rock star. likewise the opposite for villains.
Our obsession for 24 hour news creates all of this.
Long time listener, first time caller.
what is this thread about?
what is this thread about?
What side, left or right, is the most awful. Same as every thread.
The problem is & always was that many, including you were absolute in your assessment that it was natural not because you had evidence, because of politics. Someone already linked another thread where you were dismissive of all suggestions that the virus was leaked from a lab, hurling insults at anyone who questioned it. You have been wrong every step of the way on COVID & have zero integrity as a representative of any scientific community.
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Go read the article linked in the original post.
I should have a lot of the shit cleaned up by the time you get done.
Mark I am having trouble being your friend. People are really pissed with you siding with goat!
Mark, don’t get me wrong……at first I knew what the thread was about, but by page #€ (?) I’ve gotten lost. Or, maybe I should say that the posts are off track a tad. Not that this thread is different than many others.
You seem to be assuming the lab leak origin is confirmed. That's not the case. The article itself doesn't even claim that. They offer a lot of "reading between the lines" (the authors use that phrasing themselves) when looking at the Chinese communications, and point out a bunch of process concerns with the lab's operation. There's no smoking gun. Maybe some smoke, but no fire.
Ranger's thread title is incorrect. This article doesn't make the lab leak origin explanation the correct explanation.
It's human nature to want to be able to point fingers, to blame, and to vilify "whoever" causes a calamity. It can't just be a "shit happens" situation, which is what the wet market origin explanation would amount to. We just have to be able to pin this on somebody, anybody. And it's possible that some day that very well may be possible. It hasn't happened yet. We just don't know.
Nature of the beast. Thread drift around here is all part of it. Throw in a bunch of shitposts and followups to shitposts and fights over shitposts and here we are.
There's till a lot of good, on topic back and forth going on, but there's a history here about the politics of the Covid response and much of what is being posted revolves around that.
We always need good posters here, regardless of one's political persuasion. Jump in when you want to contribute.
How do we know we need good posters, we don't have any to compare if they help or not.
One could think.... They may share some Gene Code.. I wonder if Mama Goat new a parts guy years ago? hmmm
I was correct and I was silenced.
Irony ...
Irony ...
That we can't agree a liar is a liar, a moron is a moron, or a poor leader is a poor leader, is the problem in this country.
I used to threaten goat that I was going to buy this site! But I am afraid Jim might take me up on that threat.
Why do you keep linking that nut? His accuracy rate percentage has to be a single digit number.
"I'm a pure blood mofo"
I have absolutely no doubt that you are a "pureblood". Probably not a stupid entitled "princess" grifting on tik tok.
Obviously not all of those terms will be applicable to you- just some of them....
She's just as annoying as the Pureblood girls. You regularly watch the TYT videos?"I'm a pure blood mofo"
I have absolutely no doubt that you are a "pureblood". Probably not a stupid entitled "princess" grifting on tik tok.
Obviously not all of those terms will be applicable to you- just some of them....
What about the person whose "negligence and incompetency" allowed the Chinese to commit either the crime of deliberately releasing the virus or hiding the fact that the virus had emerged?
The CDC/US starting in the Bush Admin had established an on ground presence in China to MONITOR the Chinese research community and INSURE that nothing like Covid happened. Or at the very least, to provide first hand knowledge to the US to prevent us from being blindsided in the event of a breakout.
The system worked perfectly thruout both the Bush and Obama Admins, until in the summer of 2019 the Trump Admin cut off the funding (because he wanted to use the funds elsewhere), and the virologist who had manned the role saw her position eliminated and was forced to return to the US.
Again it was the RESPONSIBILITY of the scientist stationed in China to monitor any possible hot spots, and it's no coincidence that after she returned to the US in July 2019, the virus emerged around Nov 2019. Dr Quick may not have been able to prevent the original outbreak. But she sure as hell would have been able to advise US officials as soon as it occurred in Nov, rather than us finding out second hand in Jan 2020.
Trump apologists will resist accepting his culpability, but this aspect of the catastrophe is strictly on him...
"The American disease expert, a medical epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency, left her post in July, according to four sources with knowledge of the issue. The first cases of the new coronavirus may have emerged as early as November, and as cases exploded, the Trump administration in February chastised China for censoring information about the outbreak and keeping U.S. experts from entering the country to help."
"Zhu and the other sources said the American expert, Dr. Linda Quick, was a trainer of Chinese field epidemiologists who were deployed to the epicenter of outbreaks to help track, investigate and contain diseases.
As an American CDC employee, they said, Quick was in an ideal position to be the eyes and ears on the ground for the United States and other countries on the coronavirus outbreak, and might have alerted them to the growing threat weeks earlier."
Exclusive: U.S. axed CDC expert job in China months before virus outbreak
Several months before the coronavirus pandemic began, the Trump administration eliminated a key American public health position in Beijing intended to help detect disease outbreaks in China, Reuters has learned.
www.reuters.com
I don't "regularly" watch anything. I had never seen this video before (it's a year old), but in response to his pureblood nonsense I did a you tube search and this came up. They seemed to be characterizing his post pretty accurately, so I used it in my response.
Of the female "lefties" she's the only one I can tolerate. I wasn't aware of the "harry Potter" aspect of the terminology, and actually felt like Nazi use of Aryan bloodlines seemed more appropriate. That's what leaps into my mind when I hear some yahoo call himself "pureblood"...
Hang on, how can we not pin it on the Chinese? Even if zoonotic theory is proven, we know China not only lied about the timing of the virus (it originated months before they claimed), we know the CCP covered up the seriousness and prevented global inspectors from participating to assist in tracing and understanding the origin.
They obviously didn't respond well, but it's not like they would have been able to contain it. You're making my point. Maybe, just maybe, shit just happened.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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It could be (actually, most likely scenario) that "shit just happened" AND China responded badly, covered stuff up, etc.
You mean like the results of the last election and what we ended up with from it?
Sure. Not arguing that point. It's the origin story that pins the origin on the Chinese that I'm saying is not close to being proven, no matter how much some want it to be.
that’s quite a false equivalency. It may have happened, but attempts to cover up the origins and timing are pretty important facets of the circumstances.
For example Milan:
Researchers find coronavirus was circulating in Italy earlier than thought
The new coronavirus was circulating in Italy in September 2019, a study by the National Cancer Institute (INT) of the Italian city of Milan shows, signaling that it might have spread beyond China earlier than thought.
Are you suggesting it originated in other countries?
Also, can you clarify why Ranger’s post is wrong given this from the Senate report?
A few random thoughts, with little organization:A new Senate report involving CCP comms experts and journalists from ProPublica have concluded the Lab Leak Theory to now be the most likely cause/source of COVID-19. This comes as little surprise to anybody with common sense - including noted liberals such as Jon Stewart. Given the novelty and location of the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the notorious lack of quality and standards involved in all things CCP - most critically thinking non-sheep really struggled with the wet market alibi and how quickly it came into existence. Of course we were quickly labeled xenophobic or sinophobic by the good sheep that for some reason just could not have it be the CCP’s fault. We were once again called Conspiracy Theorists - the Left’s latest (albeit now replaced by “Fascists”) broad brush statement to dismiss and direct the sheep back to the narrative. Was it a combination of trying to stay Woke and not create discontent with Chinese citizens in America - even though policies like college admission affirmative action blatantly discriminate against them? When is it ok to shit on Asians in America? Only if not shitting on them creates “inequity” for other “oppressed” people?
COVID-19 Origins: Investigating a “Complex and Grave Situation” Inside a Wuhan Lab
The Wuhan Institute of Virology, the cutting-edge biotech facility at the center of swirling suspicions about the pandemic’s onset, was far more troubled than previously known, explosive documents unearthed by a Senate research team reveal. Following the trail of evidence, Vanity Fair and...www.vanityfair.com
But this phenomenon of dismissing, labeling and then redirecting isn’t new nor is it going away. If a conservative disagrees with leftist propaganda it doesn’t take too long until we are labeled as MAGA or Q’s for the great offense of questioning easily disproven narratives such as vaccines not stopping transmission or having nasty side effect profiles. We are conspiracy theorists if we quickly thought something is fishy with the Hunter laptop or the quick adoption of Russiagate or the like. We were proven right on all of this.
Yes, there are Q loons and MAGAdiots on the right just as there are insane Marxists and Antifa on the Left. But only one side gets cover from the real media and the other is extensively covered by the media. The media has lost the public trust - and we’re about to see that so have the Democrats. I will not be able to vote for a Democrat at the national level until Wokeness and journalism dominance is out of their hands. They’re wrong too often and Wokeness has real manifestations and negative results.
But I do promise you to not vote for loons like Mastriano or Gosar either. Loons are clearly identifiable and should be dealt with accordingly. But according to Big J journalists only we have the loons and that’s unadulterated bullshit.
So if you were one of the sheep that believes your handlers every time despite common sense or evidence to the contrary - I encourage you to wake the **** up.
1. The wet market theory and the lab leak theory are not mutually exclusive. The evidence strongly suggests that the first wave of the virus came from the market. But it had to get to the market first. The first explanation most would think of for a wet market would obviously be infected bush meat, but it's perfectly possible that someone working at the lab got infected and then went shopping. Not recognizing this simple fact made some too quickly dismissive of one or the other of those two theories. Critically-thinking people happen to exist on all sides of the debate.
2. I'm sure there are people who were defensively reticent to give the lab leak theory any credence, but those people weren't involved in any of the discussions I remember being a part of. Rather, what I remember people being dismissive of were claims that it was likely leaked on purpose.
3. I don't know why people are so invested in the answer to this question. We don't know the ultimate source of any disease. We think ebola reservoirs in caves filled with fruit-eating bats in central Africa. But we don't know for sure. The fact that we can trace this coronavirus all the way back to the wet market is actually pretty damn good. If we can trace it even further to the lab, that's an insane accomplishment, that would probably only be possible because the ultimate source would be a human mistake (and may be impossible due to China's infamous lack of cooperation and transparency). But strategies for fighting and treating the disease don't really care where it came from.
4. On the other side of coin #3, I think most people worked up over this are betraying political rather than intellectual concerns. It's important (or useful) for some people to blame China for anything they can, while it's important (or useful) for others to deflect from China. Although, at least here in America, I don't think the second group cares so much about deflecting from China as much as they felt they were responding to perceived xenophobia among the first group.
