What do Americans mean by "fascism?"

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

“Fascism,” Kuklick’s exhaustive survey of U.S. politics and culture shows, has generally functioned as a so-called floating signifier. In the words of the anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss, who originated the phrase, a floating signifier is a term “void of meaning and thus apt to receive any meaning.” At one point or another, every political perspective in the United States has been identified as fascist. In the last two decades alone, Jonah Goldberg railed against “liberal fascism” as Chris Hedges dubbed the “Christian Right” “American fascists.” Dinesh D’Souza claimed that Hillary Clinton was fascist; Paul Krugman said the same about Trump. And even fringe ideologies weren’t safe: Sebastian Gorka linked socialism with fascism, while Nouriel Roubini made similar claims about libertarianism.

The one consistent quality the term “fascism” has retained since the 1930s is its negative valence. Almost no one uses it positively; instead, to borrow Kuklick’s acid description, the term is the verbal equivalent of “throwing a tomato at a speaker at a public event.” “Fascism,” Kuklick shows, “does not so much isolate a thing as it does some stigmatizing.” Indeed, fascism’s power in American discourse comes from the fact that it has no stable meaning—it’s mostly an all-purpose curse word, a highfalutin “fvck this”—which means that the fascism debate, as currently constructed, can never end.

Does American Fascism Exist?

For nearly a century, Americans have been throwing the term around—without agreeing what that means.

newrepublic.com

 

[Univee2]

“Fascism,” Kuklick’s exhaustive survey of U.S. politics and culture shows, has generally functioned as a so-called floating signifier. In the words of the anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss, who originated the phrase, a floating signifier is a term “void of meaning and thus apt to receive any meaning.” At one point or another, every political perspective in the United States has been identified as fascist. In the last two decades alone, Jonah Goldberg railed against “liberal fascism” as Chris Hedges dubbed the “Christian Right” “American fascists.” Dinesh D’Souza claimed that Hillary Clinton was fascist; Paul Krugman said the same about Trump. And even fringe ideologies weren’t safe: Sebastian Gorka linked socialism with fascism, while Nouriel Roubini made similar claims about libertarianism.

The one consistent quality the term “fascism” has retained since the 1930s is its negative valence. Almost no one uses it positively; instead, to borrow Kuklick’s acid description, the term is the verbal equivalent of “throwing a tomato at a speaker at a public event.” “Fascism,” Kuklick shows, “does not so much isolate a thing as it does some stigmatizing.” Indeed, fascism’s power in American discourse comes from the fact that it has no stable meaning—it’s mostly an all-purpose curse word, a highfalutin “fvck this”—which means that the fascism debate, as currently constructed, can never end.

Does American Fascism Exist?

For nearly a century, Americans have been throwing the term around—without agreeing what that means.

newrepublic.com

Strikeouts are boring. Besides that they’re fascist.

Throw some ground balls - it’s more democratic.

 

[IU_Hickory]

It's one example of many words that are used to insult the opposing side.

Fascist, socialist, woke...trigger words used to get people riled up.

 

[outside shooter]

i think the Encyclopedia Brittanica definition is on point:

Although fascist parties and movements differ significantly from one another, they have had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation.

Militaristic, dictatorial, anti-woke and trending toward racist, protectionist, favoring the rich elite

It isn't hard at all to see why DJT is such a good fit.

 

[DANC]

“Fascism,” Kuklick’s exhaustive survey of U.S. politics and culture shows, has generally functioned as a so-called floating signifier. In the words of the anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss, who originated the phrase, a floating signifier is a term “void of meaning and thus apt to receive any meaning.” At one point or another, every political perspective in the United States has been identified as fascist. In the last two decades alone, Jonah Goldberg railed against “liberal fascism” as Chris Hedges dubbed the “Christian Right” “American fascists.” Dinesh D’Souza claimed that Hillary Clinton was fascist; Paul Krugman said the same about Trump. And even fringe ideologies weren’t safe: Sebastian Gorka linked socialism with fascism, while Nouriel Roubini made similar claims about libertarianism.

The one consistent quality the term “fascism” has retained since the 1930s is its negative valence. Almost no one uses it positively; instead, to borrow Kuklick’s acid description, the term is the verbal equivalent of “throwing a tomato at a speaker at a public event.” “Fascism,” Kuklick shows, “does not so much isolate a thing as it does some stigmatizing.” Indeed, fascism’s power in American discourse comes from the fact that it has no stable meaning—it’s mostly an all-purpose curse word, a highfalutin “fvck this”—which means that the fascism debate, as currently constructed, can never end.

Does American Fascism Exist?

For nearly a century, Americans have been throwing the term around—without agreeing what that means.

newrepublic.com

I agree - it's a catch-all term. But don't certain conditions have to exist to classify as what we can Fascism?

A dictatorship, or strongman, running the government.

Government control of industry

A national obsession with something, such as against ethnic or religious groups

What else? Aggression against its neighbors? A national sense of superiority? A sense of national destiny?

Personally, I think it's one of those terms that is difficult to define, but everyone knows it when they see it.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

i think the Encyclopedia Brittanica definition is on point:

Although fascist parties and movements differ significantly from one another, they have had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation.

Militaristic, dictatorial, anti-woke and trending toward racist, protectionist, favoring the rich elite

It isn't hard at all to see why DJT is such a good fit.

I agree - it's a catch-all term. But don't certain conditions have to exist to classify as what we can Fascism?

A dictatorship, or strongman, running the government.

Government control of industry

A national obsession with something, such as against ethnic or religious groups

What else? Aggression against its neighbors? A national sense of superiority? A sense of national destiny?

Personally, I think it's one of those terms that is difficult to define, but everyone knows it when they see it.

I think you both, along with the Encyclopedia Brittanica, are describing Nazism, not Fascism.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

“Fascism,” Kuklick’s exhaustive survey of U.S. politics and culture shows, has generally functioned as a so-called floating signifier. In the words of the anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss, who originated the phrase, a floating signifier is a term “void of meaning and thus apt to receive any meaning.” At one point or another, every political perspective in the United States has been identified as fascist. In the last two decades alone, Jonah Goldberg railed against “liberal fascism” as Chris Hedges dubbed the “Christian Right” “American fascists.” Dinesh D’Souza claimed that Hillary Clinton was fascist; Paul Krugman said the same about Trump. And even fringe ideologies weren’t safe: Sebastian Gorka linked socialism with fascism, while Nouriel Roubini made similar claims about libertarianism.

The one consistent quality the term “fascism” has retained since the 1930s is its negative valence. Almost no one uses it positively; instead, to borrow Kuklick’s acid description, the term is the verbal equivalent of “throwing a tomato at a speaker at a public event.” “Fascism,” Kuklick shows, “does not so much isolate a thing as it does some stigmatizing.” Indeed, fascism’s power in American discourse comes from the fact that it has no stable meaning—it’s mostly an all-purpose curse word, a highfalutin “fvck this”—which means that the fascism debate, as currently constructed, can never end.

Does American Fascism Exist?

For nearly a century, Americans have been throwing the term around—without agreeing what that means.

newrepublic.com

Meh.

We also misuse, or don’t know the meaning of; conservatism, liberalism, socialism, communism, Marxism, Nazism, nationalism, feminism, capitalism, racism, sexism, totalitarianism, imperialism, colonialism, and progressivism. Probably more. Why should we understand fascism? We mindlessly throw these words around to make a point about those we like, or usually, don’t like. That’s my criticism.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

These days, it's just a slur stupid people throw around to feel smarter.

Call a real fascist a fascist and they'll thank you, before putting a bullet in your head.

These modern doofi using Nazi and Fascist as a "pass the salt" slur are too dumb to know they're dumb.

Once you let just anybody fake an education, the bar gets lowered.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I think you both, along with the Encyclopedia Brittanica, are describing Nazism, not Fascism.

Which components do you think did not fit fascist Italy.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Which components do you think did not fit fascist Italy.

Constitutional Rights Foundation

CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS FOUNDATION Bill of Rights in Action SUMMER 2010 (Volume 25, No. 4) Reaction and Reform The Watergate Scandal | Mussolini and the Rise of Fascism | Land, Liberty, and the Mexican Revolution&nbsp, Fascism arose in Europe after World War I when many people yearned...

www.crf-usa.org

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Constitutional Rights Foundation

CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS FOUNDATION Bill of Rights in Action SUMMER 2010 (Volume 25, No. 4) Reaction and Reform The Watergate Scandal | Mussolini and the Rise of Fascism | Land, Liberty, and the Mexican Revolution&nbsp, Fascism arose in Europe after World War I when many people yearned...

www.crf-usa.org

I am not sure how responsive that is. The biggest single difference between the two was the response toward Jews. That said, Mussolini went after gypsies beginning expelling them long before his association with Hitler.

Both wanted military prowess, both were heavily nationalist, and both largely were supportive of the wealthy. In fact Mussolini was surprised to discover middle-class Italians loved his plans as they weren't his target demographic. But the middle class was worried about falling into the lower class and sought a party that would stop the lower class from gaining power/wealth.

 

[VanPastorMan]

i think the Encyclopedia Brittanica definition is on point:

Although fascist parties and movements differ significantly from one another, they have had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation.

Militaristic, dictatorial, anti-woke and trending toward racist, protectionist, favoring the rich elite

It isn't hard at all to see why DJT is such a good fit.

Why didn't Trump take the military into Chaz/Chop in Seattle when a group of thugs took over blocks of a city and called it theirs? If he was a fascist as you say he would have blown them up.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Why didn't Trump take the military into Chaz/Chop in Seattle when a group of thugs took over blocks of a city and called it theirs? If he was a fascist as you say he would have blown them up.

So to be "fascist", you have to blow people up? That's a lot of wiggle room there

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Why didn't Trump take the military into Chaz/Chop in Seattle when a group of thugs took over blocks of a city and called it theirs? If he was a fascist as you say he would have blown them up.

Posse Comitatus, the military can't be used that way. Even if the President forgot, the military leaders wouldn't have. He could have sent in the US Marshals.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

“Fascism,” Kuklick’s exhaustive survey of U.S. politics and culture shows, has generally functioned as a so-called floating signifier. In the words of the anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss, who originated the phrase, a floating signifier is a term “void of meaning and thus apt to receive any meaning.” At one point or another, every political perspective in the United States has been identified as fascist. In the last two decades alone, Jonah Goldberg railed against “liberal fascism” as Chris Hedges dubbed the “Christian Right” “American fascists.” Dinesh D’Souza claimed that Hillary Clinton was fascist; Paul Krugman said the same about Trump. And even fringe ideologies weren’t safe: Sebastian Gorka linked socialism with fascism, while Nouriel Roubini made similar claims about libertarianism.

The one consistent quality the term “fascism” has retained since the 1930s is its negative valence. Almost no one uses it positively; instead, to borrow Kuklick’s acid description, the term is the verbal equivalent of “throwing a tomato at a speaker at a public event.” “Fascism,” Kuklick shows, “does not so much isolate a thing as it does some stigmatizing.” Indeed, fascism’s power in American discourse comes from the fact that it has no stable meaning—it’s mostly an all-purpose curse word, a highfalutin “fvck this”—which means that the fascism debate, as currently constructed, can never end.

Does American Fascism Exist?

For nearly a century, Americans have been throwing the term around—without agreeing what that means.

newrepublic.com

you're obviously a Communist.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

It's one example of many words that are used to insult the opposing side.

Fascist, socialist, woke...trigger words used to get people riled up.

And the one that elected DJ Trump:

"Deplorables"

Among the single biggest and impactful political blunders of all time.

I called it that day.

 

[cosmickid]

I am not sure how responsive that is. The biggest single difference between the two was the response toward Jews. That said, Mussolini went after gypsies beginning expelling them long before his association with Hitler.

Both wanted military prowess, both were heavily nationalist, and both largely were supportive of the wealthy. In fact Mussolini was surprised to discover middle-class Italians loved his plans as they weren't his target demographic. But the middle class was worried about falling into the lower class and sought a party that would stop the lower class from gaining power/wealth.

Very interesting opinion piece in the LA Times today which draws some pretty remarkable parallels between todays proud young Facists (Gavin McInnes,Dylann Roof, Nick Fuentes et al.,) and their counterparts who idolized Mussolini. It was "cool" in 1920s Italy, just like it's "cool" in 21st Century far right circles, often populated by Incels...

The author, Omer Aziz characterizes Fascism as...

"an ideology that glorifies the traditional masculine, believes in a spiritual right to exact violence and calls for the seizure of government for authoritarian rule. The fascists are unified by their love of violence, their hatred of progress and their sinister sense of entitlement that declares that America belongs to them.Fascism feeds off culture wars, exploits psychological insecurities and uses deeply held resentments to convert the impressionable..."

We all know that SC mass murderer Dylann Roof posed in multiple pics with what is widely regraded as the Confederate Flag. That set off a controversy regarding the then Mississippi state flag, and Nikki Haley was quick to accuse him of co-opting a symbol of generational pride for many in the South.

But what I personally didn't know prior to reading this article was that he also wore a jacket emblazoned with both the apartheid Flag of RSA as well as the flag of Rhodesia. In fact Roof's "manifesto" refers to himself as "the last Rhodesian"...

Strange how a 21 yr old man in South Carolina would choose to link his Confederate heritage and personally identify with the "struggle" of Boer descendants in South Africa's northernmost colony to preserve their legacy of colonialism and apartheid over the Africans they colonized...

This passage from the article seems remarkably accurate for an analysis of what draws people like Roof to murder and others such as McInnes and his Proud Boys to more subtle forms of violence, at least for the time being...

"Today’s fascists are malleable and take on different forms, some more racist than others, some more sexist. But they’re drawn to the propaganda and symbols of racial and sexual brutality. For many young white men, fascism starts as a cultural identity, rather than as a political ideology."

Opinion: Why do so many young white men in America find fascism 'cool'?

The overlap between the ideologies of Mussolini and Hitler and today's far-right fascism are too stark to ignore.

www.yahoo.com

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Very interesting opinion piece in the LA Times today which draws some pretty remarkable parallels between todays proud young Facists (Gavin McInnes,Dylann Roof, Nick Fuentes et al.,) and their counterparts who idolized Mussolini. It was "cool" in 1920s Italy, just like it's "cool" in 21st Century far right circles, often populated by Incels...

The author, Omer Aziz characterizes Fascism as...

"an ideology that glorifies the traditional masculine, believes in a spiritual right to exact violence and calls for the seizure of government for authoritarian rule. The fascists are unified by their love of violence, their hatred of progress and their sinister sense of entitlement that declares that America belongs to them.Fascism feeds off culture wars, exploits psychological insecurities and uses deeply held resentments to convert the impressionable..."

We all know that SC mass murderer Dylann Roof posed in multiple pics with what is widely regraded as the Confederate Flag. That set off a controversy regarding the then Mississippi state flag, and Nikki Haley was quick to accuse him of co-opting a symbol of generational pride for many in the South.

But what I personally didn't know prior to reading this article was that he also wore a jacket emblazoned with both the apartheid Flag of RSA as well as the flag of Rhodesia. In fact Roof's "manifesto" refers to himself as "the last Rhodesian"...

Strange how a 21 yr old man in South Carolina would choose to link his Confederate heritage and personally identify with the "struggle" of Boer descendants in South Africa's northernmost colony to preserve their legacy of colonialism and apartheid over the Africans they colonized...

This passage from the article seems remarkably accurate for an analysis of what draws people like Roof to murder and others such as McInnes and his Proud Boys to more subtle forms of violence, at least for the time being...

"Today’s fascists are malleable and take on different forms, some more racist than others, some more sexist. But they’re drawn to the propaganda and symbols of racial and sexual brutality. For many young white men, fascism starts as a cultural identity, rather than as a political ideology."

Opinion: Why do so many young white men in America find fascism 'cool'?

The overlap between the ideologies of Mussolini and Hitler and today's far-right fascism are too stark to ignore.

www.yahoo.com

Both "sides" idolize horrible people - none of whom are as violent (yet) as the real Fascists and Nazis were.

99.9% of people who use those terms on the internet today have no idea what they are talking about, have never read or studied the REAL history behind Nazism and Fascism, and think their vocabulary is a substitute for knowledge.

Dylann Roof is a functional illiterate who thinks what he saw on the internet about post-Apartheid violence against whites is a full story justifying violence against a "race". Stupid and lazy PWT.