We've hired Charlton Warren from UGA

IndyIUFan66

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It's a recruiting hire, which is all well and good. But at some point you need good coaches as coordinators.
Between you and fkfootball how is it you’re both not P5 coaches? I mean your total knowledge and understanding of all things is beyond reproach we can all see!

Q do you like the hiring still of Tom Allen? Like where he has the program? Or ifhad the chance would you replace him? If not happy w/him & results and would replace him, be open about it so we at least know where you stand?

If you think he’s right man for the job and like where he has the program, that stop acting like an ass hat, micromanaging, second-guesser! It’s his program to hire who he thinks is beat, who he thinks can do the job and who he thinks can maintain the last two year’s worth of momentum that most IU fans would say seems pretty good. But then again, maybe those who voted him B10 (& some National) coach of year may not know as much as you two either, so we will factor that in too!
 

mushroomgod_1

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My concern is involves our good coaches. Why would they stay and not just take a parallel position, like Hart did, at a bigger school if you know upward mobility is basically a no go moving forward? This dude has a terrible resume outside of recruiting. I did a search and every article I read on him only ever mentioned that he was wanted for his recruiting ability. No once was his coaching or leadership mentioned.

It looks like a big reach.

You would think the normal career progression would involve a year or two at DC at some place like So. Mississippi or East Carolina, where you could see if he has the chops to be an effective DC.
 
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IndyIUFan66

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It looks like a big reach.

You would think the normal career progression would involve a year or two at DC at some place like So. Mississippi or East Carolina, where you could see if he has the chops to be an effective DC.
Guess what, some people bet on themselves (like Tom Allen did) and there are multiple ways to the top other than one set way only. He bet that major P5 SEC credentials would get him a coordinator shot at a good opportunity and bingo, he just got it, and he didn’t have to go risk getting lost at a smaller school. (No offense but Kane Womack may not go from his next job to big P5 if it doesn’t go well. He may have to go position or coordinator his way back up if things like injuries or bad luck hit and he doesn’t crush it as HC there.

Don’t be stuck in “status quo routes”!
 
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sparkeyreturns

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Yeah sure seems like a knee jerk hire by CTA. He just never seems to do due diligence. As far as if he leaves in a year or two I am ok because chances are we had continued success. I like the approach of hiring guys with big ambition it means they are probably going to work harder.
Exactly. I led software implementations with budgets over 20+ million a year. When I look
If he's successful, he'll leave in 1-2 years for an SEC job.

If he's unsuccessful, we'll wish he would have left in 1-2 years. Take a look at the 2012 & 2013 AF defensive results.

As for the OC change, we went from 15th nationally(302.4) to 43rd(250.9) in passing offense, from 41st nationally in TO(432.8) to 94th(359.5), and from 42nd in scoring(31.8) to 59th(28.8). That change cost us a really bad bowl loss, 5-6 places in the final polls, and probably some recruits.

I get the need for a recruiter, but this looks like a panic hire in that respect. Look at teams like Iowa & Wisconsin....they hire guys that are there for the long-term. This looks like a short-term hire.
Not even a high reward short term offer. Lane Kiffin is a short-term hire. Not this.
 

Bligedy

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Looks like they always had co-coordinator tags, but he was the primary coordinator in 2012 & 2013.

I don't do links, but see "Source: Air Force defensive coordinator Charlton Warren leaves for Nebraska", dated 1/16/14---"Warren...has spent the past two seasons as the defensive coordinator". He will coach the defensive secondary...a position he held with Air Force from 2008-11, when he was also the recruiting coordinator".

The story goes on to say he left AF in light of the hiring of Brian Knorr (later IU DC)---"There was widespread speculation that the recent hiring of Knorr...would mean a demotion for Warren...."

See also "Air Force Football Defense Under New Ownership: Charton Warren New Coordinator But Familiar Face", dated 8/30/12---"Calhoun called again this year, asking Charlton to take over as defensive coordinator"....."Calhoun chose Warren to guide Air Force's defense after Matt Wallerstedt moved to Texas A&M".

The 2010 AF D gave up 21.1 ppg. That went to 28.4 in '11, 29.0 in '12, and 40.0 in '13. The 2013 AF D gave up 490.4 total ypg, compared to 409.4 in '12, 386.5 in '11, and 349.3 in '10. The '13 AF D was 118/125 teams in the NCAA in scoring D.
Tom Allen lost 12 games in 3 years at Ben Davis. They had lost 40 in the previous 20 years.

People learn stuff. People get better.
 

sparkeyreturns

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Guess what, some people bet on themselves (like Tom Allen did) and there are multiple ways to the top other than one set way only. He bet that major P5 SEC credentials would get him a coordinator shot at a good opportunity and bingo, he just got it, and he didn’t have to go risk getting lost at a smaller school. (No offense but Kane Womack may not go from his next job to big P5 if it doesn’t go well. He may have to go position or coordinator his way back up if things like injuries or bad luck hit and he doesn’t crush it as HC there.

Don’t be stuck in “status quo routes”!
What? Kane Womack, due to performance, was moved into a DC position at P5. He moved down to get a HC job which is a move up. This guy has already failed as a P5 DC and has never moved up at any other school since then. This hire is nonsensical no matter how it is spun.

Now could it work? Sure! But not seeing it. Again, another huge concern I have is that I believe we have incredibly talented position coaches and if I were them I would lose a ton of motivation to stick around. Not only did I not get the promotion but they brought in someone who can teach me absolutely nothing. If you were in their position would you stay? Dont think for a minute that the reason Mike Hart left wasnt related to who our OC is and his performance this past year.
 

Sope Creek

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What? Kane Womack, due to performance, was moved into a DC position at P5. He moved down to get a HC job which is a move up. This guy has already failed as a P5 DC and has never moved up at any other school since then. This hire is nonsensical no matter how it is spun.

Now could it work? Sure! But not seeing it. Again, another huge concern I have is that I believe we have incredibly talented position coaches and if I were them I would lose a ton of motivation to stick around. Not only did I not get the promotion but they brought in someone who can teach me absolutely nothing. If you were in their position would you stay? Dont think for a minute that the reason Mike Hart left wasnt related to who our OC is and his performance this past year.
Did you see any of the resumes?

Were you in any of the interviews?

Did you hear any of the reference discussions?

Do you have a good understanding of what it would take to be a good fit on CTA's staff?
 

Baller23Boogie

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What? Kane Womack, due to performance, was moved into a DC position at P5. He moved down to get a HC job which is a move up. This guy has already failed as a P5 DC and has never moved up at any other school since then. This hire is nonsensical no matter how it is spun.

Now could it work? Sure! But not seeing it. Again, another huge concern I have is that I believe we have incredibly talented position coaches and if I were them I would lose a ton of motivation to stick around. Not only did I not get the promotion but they brought in someone who can teach me absolutely nothing. If you were in their position would you stay? Dont think for a minute that the reason Mike Hart left wasnt related to who our OC is and his performance this past year.
What power 5 was he a DC at?
 
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What? Kane Womack, due to performance, was moved into a DC position at P5. He moved down to get a HC job which is a move up. This guy has already failed as a P5 DC and has never moved up at any other school since then. This hire is nonsensical no matter how it is spun.

Now could it work? Sure! But not seeing it. Again, another huge concern I have is that I believe we have incredibly talented position coaches and if I were them I would lose a ton of motivation to stick around. Not only did I not get the promotion but they brought in someone who can teach me absolutely nothing. If you were in their position would you stay? Dont think for a minute that the reason Mike Hart left wasnt related to who our OC is and his performance this past year.
That is a huge assumption on your part. Do you have any proof that this is true or are you just speculating? At least the other assumption that he he was returning to his Alma mater for a pay raise makes more sense.
 
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Bligedy

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What? Kane Womack, due to performance, was moved into a DC position at P5. He moved down to get a HC job which is a move up. This guy has already failed as a P5 DC and has never moved up at any other school since then. This hire is nonsensical no matter how it is spun.

Now could it work? Sure! But not seeing it. Again, another huge concern I have is that I believe we have incredibly talented position coaches and if I were them I would lose a ton of motivation to stick around. Not only did I not get the promotion but they brought in someone who can teach me absolutely nothing. If you were in their position would you stay? Dont think for a minute that the reason Mike Hart left wasnt related to who our OC is and his performance this past year.
Mike Hart was here to be a recruiter. He's at Michigan to be a recruiter. That's his job right now. He's not some offensive genius sitting around rolling his mustache coming up with brilliant game plans.
 

76-1

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What? Kane Womack, due to performance, was moved into a DC position at P5. He moved down to get a HC job which is a move up. This guy has already failed as a P5 DC and has never moved up at any other school since then. This hire is nonsensical no matter how it is spun.

Now could it work? Sure! But not seeing it. Again, another huge concern I have is that I believe we have incredibly talented position coaches and if I were them I would lose a ton of motivation to stick around. Not only did I not get the promotion but they brought in someone who can teach me absolutely nothing. If you were in their position would you stay? Dont think for a minute that the reason Mike Hart left wasnt related to who our OC is and his performance this past year.
Hart would have gone to Norte Dame last year if they would have had him. He had a foot out the door and just took the next step...

Tom Allen has a proven record of great hires and also has to be considered among the top Defensive minds in FBS Football... I'm more than comfortable going with his experience and expertise over that of his naysayers in regard to this hire...
 

JohnsyRick

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What? Kane Womack, due to performance, was moved into a DC position at P5. He moved down to get a HC job which is a move up. This guy has already failed as a P5 DC and has never moved up at any other school since then. This hire is nonsensical no matter how it is spun.

Now could it work? Sure! But not seeing it. Again, another huge concern I have is that I believe we have incredibly talented position coaches and if I were them I would lose a ton of motivation to stick around. Not only did I not get the promotion but they brought in someone who can teach me absolutely nothing. If you were in their position would you stay? Dont think for a minute that the reason Mike Hart left wasnt related to who our OC is and his performance this past year.
Actually, one of the reasons he got the job was how well he “meshed” with the rest of the staff. It is amazing to me that a few “experts” with zero knowledge ,except stats from a service academy 7 or 8 years ago, show up to tell us how bad of a hire this is, lol. I don’t know how successful Coach Warren will or won’t be, my suspicion is he will be great, but that is obviously just my opinion. The only factual answer is NO ONE knows how this will turn out, but Coach Allen has earned the leeway to make any hire he so desires, and that hire should have our support. Does that mean it isn’t ok to have some doubts, no, but it also isn’t ok to doom a guy to failure before he even starts.
 

mobilehoosier

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I'm confident we got the guy coach wanted. CTA does his homework. As 66 stated above, the new reality is coaching carousels at schools with success. We just haven't had much success lately so this coaching free-for-all is new to us. I like it. Get a new coordinator every 2-4 years. That means we're kicking ass. Welcome Mr. Warren. Good to have at least one guy named Warren in our camp. Other Warren sure isn't. Couldn't resist. Go Hoosiers!
 

Champs1976

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True, but he had been set up to succeed. He had been on the defensive staff since 2008(?). In 2012 & '13 he was sole DC and it didn't end well.
He was at Air Force Academy - ever try to recruit at one of those schools? Allen coaches other coaches up (Wommack) it will happen with Warren too who probably wanted to come to IU to learn from a coach that has built a really good culture. Remember Allen coaches the defense too and is excellent. TA is building a program and with the competition emerging at MSU, Rutgers and MD, he needs a better talent pool to draw from, it looks like Warren can help deliver that.
 

vesuvius13

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The posters criticizing coach Warren about his AF coaching time are constantly criticizing IUFB all the time.

Coach Warren is a very good recruiter and will learn from Allen how to call the defense and prep for the game. Warren could be a very good DC but we will have to see. He has learned a lot of defense since the AF and he will learn a lot about our defense from coach Allen and the other defensive coaches.
 

red hornet

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The posters criticizing coach Warren about his AF coaching time are constantly criticizing IUFB all the time.

Coach Warren is a very good recruiter and will learn from Allen how to call the defense and prep for the game. Warren could be a very good DC but we will have to see. He has learned a lot of defense since the AF and he will learn a lot about our defense from coach Allen and the other defensive coaches.
Undoubtedly, Coach Warren will bring in some fresh defensive ideas to share with his new colleagues too.
 

fkfootball

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After we go 6-6 with a loaded roster next year, you guys will finally see the light on our 2 bad Coordinators. Zebras never change their stripes.
 

Jssanto

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Looks like they always had co-coordinator tags, but he was the primary coordinator in 2012 & 2013.

I don't do links, but see "Source: Air Force defensive coordinator Charlton Warren leaves for Nebraska", dated 1/16/14---"Warren...has spent the past two seasons as the defensive coordinator". He will coach the defensive secondary...a position he held with Air Force from 2008-11, when he was also the recruiting coordinator".

The story goes on to say he left AF in light of the hiring of Brian Knorr (later IU DC)---"There was widespread speculation that the recent hiring of Knorr...would mean a demotion for Warren...."

See also "Air Force Football Defense Under New Ownership: Charton Warren New Coordinator But Familiar Face", dated 8/30/12---"Calhoun called again this year, asking Charlton to take over as defensive coordinator"....."Calhoun chose Warren to guide Air Force's defense after Matt Wallerstedt moved to Texas A&M".

The 2010 AF D gave up 21.1 ppg. That went to 28.4 in '11, 29.0 in '12, and 40.0 in '13. The 2013 AF D gave up 490.4 total ypg, compared to 409.4 in '12, 386.5 in '11, and 349.3 in '10. The '13 AF D was 118/125 teams in the NCAA in scoring D.
You and ffootball are so negative. You may be good for the forum for a different point of view stand point. But I am glad I have a more positive life. Sorry, this is a bit of a negative post towards you two.
 
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oldcougar77

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If we have a winning season , and go to, and win a bowl game .Who gets the credit .
A successful head coach with a long coaching career whose own job ultimately depends on how well his assistant coaches do settles on new staff. Three douchebags on a message board who never coached peewee football and who are negative on all things related to IU football declare same hires to be terrible - mostly because their internet research tells them so.

Tough decision. Who you gonna trust ?
 

mushroomgod_1

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The posters criticizing coach Warren about his AF coaching time are constantly criticizing IUFB all the time.

Coach Warren is a very good recruiter and will learn from Allen how to call the defense and prep for the game. Warren could be a very good DC but we will have to see. He has learned a lot of defense since the AF and he will learn a lot about our defense from coach Allen and the other defensive coaches.

I'm not constantly 'criticizing all the time'. I don't think I've ever criticized a hire before. At worst it's been 'wait and see', which is all we can do anyway.

This is different because this is the first time CTA has hired someone who demonstrably failed at the exact position for which he is currently being hired.

It seems like a reach. Has he been seriously considered for the DC position at any other P5 program? I don't know. You probably don't either. He hasn't coached any position group other than the D backfield. How many people who have only coached the DBs at the P5 level are chosen to be the DC at another P5 school? Are you aware of it ever happening?

I think it's humorous that you and some others on here have you lips so firmly plated on CTA's rear end that you can't acknowledge that it's an unusual hire. Will it work out? All we can do is wait and see.
 
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I'm not constantly 'criticizing all the time'. I don't think I've ever criticized a hire before. At worst it's been 'wait and see', which is all we can do anyway.

This is different because this is the first time CTA has hired someone who demonstrably failed at the exact position for which he is currently being hired.

It seems like a reach. Has he been seriously considered for the DC position at any other P5 program? I don't know. You probably don't either. He hasn't coached any position group other than the D backfield. How many people who have only coached the DBs at the P5 level are chosen to be the DC at another P5 school? Are you aware of it ever happening?

I think it's humorous that you and some others on here have you lips so firmly plated on CTA's rear end that you can't acknowledge that it's an usual hire. Will it work out? All we can do is wait and see.
I think you have the wrong poster . Vesuvius has been quite skeptical about Sheridan and even Hiller. But unlike you he is willing to wait and see what happens. It is true he may be a bust. But CTA saw something that made him a believer in Warren. Who knows maybe Kirby Smart gave him a great recommendation. If I remember correctly Bill Belichick was a complete failure in Cleveland. He got a second chance and has done ok. Not saying he is the second coming of Belichick but it happens
 

Bligedy

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I think you have the wrong poster . Vesuvius has been quite skeptical about Sheridan and even Hiller. But unlike you he is willing to wait and see what happens. It is true he may be a bust. But CTA saw something that made him a believer in Warren. Who knows maybe Kirby Smart gave him a great recommendation. If I remember correctly Bill Belichick was a complete failure in Cleveland. He got a second chance and has done ok. Not saying he is the second coming of Belichick but it happens
I don't know what the process was but I'm quite sure that Tom did more due diligence than scouring FootballReference.com for Air Force stats.

He's given me no reason to doubt him.
 

IndyIUFan66

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Think a thread this long debating them is the oxygen a few of the "regular IU critics" thrive on to feel good.

Allen was B10 Coach of the year with two straight good seasons, FL Bowl games, Coordinators getting HC jobs, and another 4-star QB recruit. I think he knows what he's doing and where he wants to go, so I'll trust his instincts and judgement way more than a few cranks who somehow claim to love IUFB but yet always find things to criticize before they've even coached or played a down.
 

iu2win

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Spot on Fan66. I don't care if we call it blind luck, acts of God, or the second coming, Coach Allen has done nothing but improve the IU Football Program from the day he set foot on campus. As I recall there was some coaching turnover within the program last summer and yet, somehow, amazingly the team had another fantastic season. Getting lucky a time or two is one thing, consistently making choices that ultimately improve the program is another thing. I trust Coach Tom Allen and I expect the IU Football Program to continue the level of success we have seen under his fantastic leadership. Go Hoosiers !!!
 

vesuvius13

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It looks like a big reach.

You would think the normal career progression would involve a year or two at DC at some place like So. Mississippi or East Carolina, where you could see if he has the chops to be an effective DC.
It isn't a big reach because Coach Allen will work with him during the week making plans for the opponent and what to do. Warren has learned a lot from his coaching career and coach Allen will teach him a lot about defense for the B1G. Warren is a very good recruiter which also helps IU.
 

fkfootball

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Good God man, is your life that piss poor that you must bitch about EVERYTHING.

You are not a glass half empty guy. Hell you don't even see the glass at all!
Someone on here has to be literal. All I do is go on facts.
 

Brockettman

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A successful head coach with a long coaching career whose own job ultimately depends on how well his assistant coaches do settles on new staff. Three douchebags on a message board who never coached peewee football and who are negative on all things related to IU football declare same hires to be terrible - mostly because their internet research tells them so.

Tough decision. Who you gonna trust ?
Coach Allen.
 
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IndyIUFan66

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Someone on here has to be literal. All I do is go on facts.
Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back with all of your genius analysis. And seriously, shouldn't your name be in the mix for at least RB coach? I mean, c'mon, you're direct, know football extremely well and you "call it like you see it" which Tom Allen needs.
 

JohnsyRick

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Someone on here has to be literal. All I do is go on facts.
Facts ? Ok, Indiana is 14-7 overall and 11-5 in conference play over the last 2 years, Tom Allen was Big Ten Coach of the year for 2020 , and he has forgotten more about coaching football than you will ever know. As long as we are discussing facts, please fill us in on how many Big Ten HC coaching victories you have under your belt ?
 

fkfootball

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Facts ? Ok, Indiana is 14-7 overall and 11-5 in conference play over the last 2 years, Tom Allen was Big Ten Coach of the year for 2020 , and he has forgotten more about coaching football than you will ever know. As long as we are discussing facts, please fill us in on how many Big Ten HC coaching victories you have under your belt ?
Youre right about that. Tom Allen knows more about football than I do. I would never be delusional enough to say otherwise.