Well... It looks like I'll be new car shopping soon

[UncleMark]

I guess the engine coil replacement is worth a shot. I don't know why the mechanic didn't do it.

Here's the calculus I have always done. I've done it with cars, and used to do it with computers back in the day when they were actually fixable and not cheap and disposable.

What is it worth right now, as-is, with full disclosure to any potential buyer?​

​

What would it take to fix it? In your case, how much for the ignition coils?​

​

What would it then be worth after repair, but otherwise as-is?​

If the value increase is equal or more than the cost of repair, then fix it.

In your case, that's going to be a tough calculation with the million miles you have on the car. It's not going to be worth much no matter how well it runs. May or may not be worth fixing it. It also may boil down to one of those situations where it starts and runs fine every day, get's you where you want to go, and other than the light being on does just fine. That light being on may be irritating, but it doesn't hurt anything and over time you'll learn to ignore it. Mine's been on for over a year.

FWIW, I'd get a second opinion from an outfit that knows how to do a proper electronic diagnosis. But from what you've posted I think the coils are a good bet for being the culprit.

 

[ButHerEmails]

OK, gearheads. 2 weeks after the grim but vague news from my mechanic, and spark plug replacements, the check engine light returned. I got error code readings, as follows:

primary
P0303 Misfire, cylinder 3 detected
secondary
P0302 Misfire, cylinder 2 detected
P0304 Misfire, cylinder 4 detected
P0305 Misfire, cylinder 5 detected
P0306 Misfire, cylinder 6 detected
P0300 Random Misfire detected
P1399 Misfire in any cylinder

It seems like the triage is as follows:
1) check/replace spark plugs - already done
2) replace engine coil packs - NOT DONE, based on receipt from mechanic!

Those are supposed to fix the issue, most often. If it doesn't work, there could be other problems:

Bad Fuel Injector
Vacuum leak
Cam or Crank Sensors
Leaking head gasket
Bent valve
Cracked head

Most of these later issues would cause major performance issues, which I don't see.

I guess the engine coil replacement is worth a shot. I don't know why the mechanic didn't do it.

$65 for 6 on Amazon

Wife says I'm crazy to go off of youtube videos and message board advice when our mechanic of 17 years says it's time to retire the beast

Thoughts?

If it’s the last two on that list, almost better to get a new one than fix it. Those are extremely expensive repairs, even if you can do it yourself. Not to mention time consuming. Had a bearing go out in an engine once, replaced it, but I’ll never do that shit again. I’m pretty sure I invented a few cuss words and summoned three demons in the process.

 

[Crayfish57]

OK, gearheads. 2 weeks after the grim but vague news from my mechanic, and spark plug replacements, the check engine light returned. I got error code readings, as follows:

primary
P0303 Misfire, cylinder 3 detected
secondary
P0302 Misfire, cylinder 2 detected
P0304 Misfire, cylinder 4 detected
P0305 Misfire, cylinder 5 detected
P0306 Misfire, cylinder 6 detected
P0300 Random Misfire detected
P1399 Misfire in any cylinder

It seems like the triage is as follows:
1) check/replace spark plugs - already done
2) replace engine coil packs - NOT DONE, based on receipt from mechanic!

Those are supposed to fix the issue, most often. If it doesn't work, there could be other problems:

Bad Fuel Injector
Vacuum leak
Cam or Crank Sensors
Leaking head gasket
Bent valve
Cracked head

Most of these later issues would cause major performance issues, which I don't see.

I guess the engine coil replacement is worth a shot. I don't know why the mechanic didn't do it.

$65 for 6 on Amazon

Wife says I'm crazy to go off of youtube videos and message board advice when our mechanic of 17 years says it's time to retire the beast

Thoughts?

I know you ignore me but I had work done and found out a sensor had not been reconnected . Ran but not right at idle, fixed sensor and ran like new.

 

[Crayfish57]

Here's the calculus I have always done. I've done it with cars, and used to do it with computers back in the day when they were actually fixable and not cheap and disposable.

What is it worth right now, as-is, with full disclosure to any potential buyer?​

​

What would it take to fix it? In your case, how much for the ignition coils?​

​

What would it then be worth after repair, but otherwise as-is?​

If the value increase is equal or more than the cost of repair, then fix it.

In your case, that's going to be a tough calculation with the million miles you have on the car. It's not going to be worth much no matter how well it runs. May or may not be worth fixing it. It also may boil down to one of those situations where it starts and runs fine every day, get's you where you want to go, and other than the light being on does just fine. That light being on may be irritating, but it doesn't hurt anything and over time you'll learn to ignore it. Mine's been on for over a year.

FWIW, I'd get a second opinion from an outfit that knows how to do a proper electronic diagnosis. But from what you've posted I think the coils are a good bet for being the culprit.

Coils are a good chance too besides maybe a sensor. If it runs good a small piece of black tape will fix the check engine light on something old

 

[UncleMark]

Coils are a good chance too besides maybe a sensor. If it runs good a small piece of black tape will fix the check engine light on something old

Cam and crank position sensors should be relatively economical to replace at the same time as the coils. It's no guarantee, but that would cover essentially the entire ignition system.

 

[outside shooter]

What is it worth right now, as-is, with full disclosure to any potential buyer?​

​

What would it take to fix it? In your case, how much for the ignition coils?​

​

What would it then be worth after repair, but otherwise as-is?​

If the value increase is equal or more than the cost of repair, then fix it.

In your case, that's going to be a tough calculation with the million miles you have on the car. It's not going to be worth much no matter how well it runs. May or may not be worth fixing it.

Not worth over 1K, fixed or not.

My gut tells me it's time. But my gut also tells me the car industry is in major transition and that in 5 years or so there will be lots of high performing hybrids and maybe even 500 mile range EVs available, and cost competition.

So babying it along, or buying used as a bridge, seems wise

 

[Crayfish57]

Not worth over 1K, fixed or not.

My gut tells me it's time. But my gut also tells me the car industry is in major transition and that in 5 years or so there will be lots of high performing hybrids and maybe even 500 mile range EVs available, and cost competition.

So babying it along, or buying used as a bridge, seems wise

Makes a big difference what you can fix yourself vs paying for on older stuff and if it is your only transportation. I do my own work mostly with friends and have a spare if one is getting work done. Coils are most likely your problem

 

[outside shooter]

Thanks Cray, you're on "unignore" now. Thanks Mark. I will mull things over. I might be Memorial weekend car shopping

 

[UncleMark]

Not worth over 1K, fixed or not.

In that case, my calculus changes. It's essentially worth nothing now. If you could fix it for say $2000, would it be worth it to you to get another couple years (or more) out of it for $2000? (That's cheap transportation.) If not, then let it go.

So babying it along, or buying used as a bridge, seems wise

Used is always the way to go. Sweet spot is a three year old off lease/fleet car. We did great on the wife's 2015 Focus in 2018.

 

[outside shooter]

ok, found it...

$380,000 off-road capable Lamborghini Huracán Sterrato

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/20/business/lamborghini-huracan-sterrato-review/index.html

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

OK, gearheads. 2 weeks after the grim but vague news from my mechanic, and spark plug replacements, the check engine light returned. I got error code readings, as follows:

primary
P0303 Misfire, cylinder 3 detected
secondary
P0302 Misfire, cylinder 2 detected
P0304 Misfire, cylinder 4 detected
P0305 Misfire, cylinder 5 detected
P0306 Misfire, cylinder 6 detected
P0300 Random Misfire detected
P1399 Misfire in any cylinder

It seems like the triage is as follows:
1) check/replace spark plugs - already done
2) replace engine coil packs - NOT DONE, based on receipt from mechanic!

Those are supposed to fix the issue, most often. If it doesn't work, there could be other problems:

Bad Fuel Injector
Vacuum leak
Cam or Crank Sensors
Leaking head gasket
Bent valve
Cracked head

Most of these later issues would cause major performance issues, which I don't see.

I guess the engine coil replacement is worth a shot. I don't know why the mechanic didn't do it.

$65 for 6 on Amazon

Wife says I'm crazy to go off of youtube videos and message board advice when our mechanic of 17 years says it's time to retire the beast

Thoughts?

Didn't this start with the 17 yr mechanic saying that he need to pull the engine to diagnose ...... a spark plug or coil pack?
I'm starting to think that the mechanic has learned how to hack your internal diagnostic mod, and he has an off/ on switch on your check engine light. If you are not experiencing any known noticeable power issues, I am a huge fan of the black tape idea. BUT.
Coil packs may be worth the small investment, and ALWAYs remember. Even though they are brand new spark plugs and/ or coil packs.... you can get a bad one and the percentage of defect new parts are significant !
I could dig on Mark here and say napa parts, but napa doesn't build the stuff, they just sell from some localized manufacturer.
My 2 cents, drive it until it is dead along the side of a road or in a parking lot. Then call a junk yard and get 300-400$ when they com pick it up.

 

[Cthulhu85]

I'd check to make sure your plug wires are plugged in in the right order. If the wires aren't connecting the plugs to right distributor terminals they will fire out of order.

 

[Crayfish57]

I'd check to make sure your plug wires are plugged in in the right order. If the wires aren't connecting the plugs to right distributor terminals they will fire out of order.

Or even are you sure they are actually plugged in right? Your theory makes sense about getting them in the wrong order. I always mark things just to make sure it all goes back right. Get a Haynes Manual they are a great source even though over doing some simple things

 

[Cthulhu85]

Or even are you sure they are actually plugged in right? Your theory makes sense about getting them in the wrong order. I always mark things just to make sure it all goes back right. Get a Haynes Manual they are a great source even though over doing some simple things

When I had my Toyota way back in college I had to replace the plug wires. I yanked all the wires off and put the new ones on. It ran like crap.

The Haynes manual had the distributor/ plug wire diagram. The wires are universal but each distributor terminal has to be connected to a specific cylinder.

The terminal posts aren't necessarily in clockwise or counter clockwise order either. They could be random.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

When I had my Toyota way back in college I had to replace the plug wires. I yanked all the wires off and put the new ones on. It ran like crap.

The Haynes manual had the distributor/ plug wire diagram. The wires are universal but each distributor terminal has to be connected to a specific cylinder.

The terminal posts aren't necessarily in clockwise or counter clockwise order either. They could be random.

YOu can make a SB chevy run backwards ! Ask Jeff Gordan.

 

[outside shooter]

Or even are you sure they are actually plugged in right? Your theory makes sense about getting them in the wrong order.

The thing that I didn't mention is that, after they changed the spark plugs, the engine SEEMS just fine- power is back to normal, I cruised the turnpike at 90 mph the other day. The check engine light came back on, and it still SEEMS OK. Gas milege seems to be fine too. When I have had spark wring issues on anything, the ride was ROUGH

Maybe the black tape fix is what I need!

But of course the wife no longer trusts it for any distance drive. She wants to shop! Though she read about the 2024 Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid, coming this Fall, and suggested we might wait to try it. It is roomier than the regular Highlander.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

The thing that I didn't mention is that, after they changed the spark plugs, the engine SEEMS just fine- power is back to normal, I cruised the turnpike at 90 mph the other day. The check engine light came back on, and it still SEEMS OK. Gas milege seems to be fine too. When I have had spark wring issues on anything, the ride was ROUGH

Maybe the black tape fix is what I need!

But of course the wife no longer trusts it for any distance drive. She wants to shop! Though she read about the 2024 Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid, coming this Fall, and suggested we might wait to try it. It is roomier than the regular Highlander.

Any chance the wife will also wear some black tape?

It sounds like your car isn't the issue. Maybe just make momma happy.

 

[outside shooter]

Any chance the wife will also wear some black tape?

It sounds like your car isn't the issue. Maybe just make momma happy.

32 years!

Never once got on a first name basis with hotel staff, after getting kicked out!

 

[Lucy01]

32 years!

Never once got on a first name basis with hotel staff, after getting kicked out!

That’s OK I still have your information

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

OK, gearheads. 2 weeks after the grim but vague news from my mechanic, and spark plug replacements, the check engine light returned. I got error code readings, as follows:

primary
P0303 Misfire, cylinder 3 detected
secondary
P0302 Misfire, cylinder 2 detected
P0304 Misfire, cylinder 4 detected
P0305 Misfire, cylinder 5 detected
P0306 Misfire, cylinder 6 detected
P0300 Random Misfire detected
P1399 Misfire in any cylinder

It seems like the triage is as follows:
1) check/replace spark plugs - already done
2) replace engine coil packs - NOT DONE, based on receipt from mechanic!

Those are supposed to fix the issue, most often. If it doesn't work, there could be other problems:

Bad Fuel Injector
Vacuum leak
Cam or Crank Sensors
Leaking head gasket
Bent valve
Cracked head

Most of these later issues would cause major performance issues, which I don't see.

I guess the engine coil replacement is worth a shot. I don't know why the mechanic didn't do it.

$65 for 6 on Amazon

Wife says I'm crazy to go off of youtube videos and message board advice when our mechanic of 17 years says it's time to retire the beast

Thoughts?

I had new fuel injectors put into a 2017 Honda last year. My brother in law knows his way around a car, and there was a youtube video for the repair. The repair parts cost about $800-$1,000. The old fuel injectors were very clogged. Prior to the repair, my car was not accelerating very well and there was a delay, basically like something was clogged: very unsmooth performance. The repair totally took care of the problem.

I would be amazed if your fuel injectors didn't have significant buildup at this point, especially if you have never had them replaced or cleaned. I believe Hondas are pretty famous for fuel injectors that become clogged, and I don't think they last past 100K miles. It is kind of a pain in the ass to get to the injectors. There are also youtube videos where you can clean your old injectors for like $10-$15 bucks instead of buying new injectors.

The sparkplugs were also changed at the same time.

 

[outside shooter]

brief update...

Before buying new coils, I stopped by and talked to the head mechanic. He swears that they checked the coils and that a bad coil is NOT the problem.

So it probably is something that, just in labor costs, isn't worth doing, unless I can do it myself (such as cleaning the fuel injectors). I am assuming that those fuel additive fuel injector cleaners in a bottle wouldn't really work, for something gunked up enough to give a misfire fault? Anybody have a success story with them?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

brief update...

Before buying new coils, I stopped by and talked to the head mechanic. He swears that they checked the coils and that a bad coil is NOT the problem.

So it probably is something that, just in labor costs, isn't worth doing, unless I can do it myself (such as cleaning the fuel injectors). I am assuming that those fuel additive fuel injector cleaners in a bottle wouldn't really work, for something gunked up enough to give a misfire fault? Anybody have a success story with them?

I think there are two kinds of cleaners, one to clean and one to maintain. I don’t know how well either works.

My manual for the car, as well as the service “advisor” at the dealer insist we use only Top Tier gas. Supposedly that’s how you keep the injectors clean. Does anybody know if that’s true?

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

brief update...

Before buying new coils, I stopped by and talked to the head mechanic. He swears that they checked the coils and that a bad coil is NOT the problem.

So it probably is something that, just in labor costs, isn't worth doing, unless I can do it myself (such as cleaning the fuel injectors). I am assuming that those fuel additive fuel injector cleaners in a bottle wouldn't really work, for something gunked up enough to give a misfire fault? Anybody have a success story with them?

The injector cleaners you add to the gas tank aren't going to do anything for significant buildup: believe me, I tried. You have to get to the fuel injector and tap the injector with a wire hooked up to a car battery, which opens up the injector. You can then rig something up to shoot fuel injector cleaner through each injector.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Wait.. the codes were “mis fire”, as in fired at the wrong time, not a “no fire”.
Anyone know if the self diagnosis can differentiate between misfire and no fire? I don’t know.

 

[outside shooter]

The injector cleaners you add to the gas tank aren't going to do anything for significant buildup: believe me, I tried. You have to get to the fuel injector and tap the injector with a wire hooked up to a car battery, which opens up the injector. You can then rig something up to shoot fuel injector cleaner through each injector.

That's what I thought.

Maybe it's just time. 387K has been a helluva run and I'm WAY overdue for the expensive Honda timing belt replacement as well, which won't be worth it.

 

[Crayfish57]

That's what I thought.

Maybe it's just time. 387K has been a helluva run and I'm WAY overdue for the expensive Honda timing belt replacement as well, which won't be worth it.

You hit that mileage and run the timing belt till it breaks. I broke one on an old VW diesel and managed to tow it home and change myself and hadn't roached the engine. Never worked on a Honda , again sounds like if you can risk a few hundred bucks and work on it yourself vs paying someone with those miles. My F150 was so hard to get to the back plugs, I have a friend who is a big guy with long arms to get the back two plugs out and it was tough. If you do try just mark everything to get back together right. Again I'd recommend a Haynes manual at 20 bucks

 

[outside shooter]

Driving this tomorrow.

Looked at or drove Pilot, Highlander, VW Atlas, Mazda CX-90 PHEV. Local Mazda didn't have red, but one 30 mi away does.

Didn't get to drive a Highlander Hybrid, since nobody has inventory. Dealer said several months wait. Grand Highlander is coming sometime this summer. Roomier, but maybe bigger than I need.

 

[UncleMark]

Plug in hybrid makes the most sense to me at this point in time. Kind of a transitional setup between gas and full EV.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Driving this tomorrow.

Looked at or drove Pilot, Highlander, VW Atlas, Mazda CX-90 PHEV. Local Mazda didn't have red, but one 30 mi away does.

Didn't get to drive a Highlander Hybrid, since nobody has inventory. Dealer said several months wait. Grand Highlander is coming sometime this summer. Roomier, but maybe bigger than I need.

Nose seems to pronounced. Also a total waste of space considering wheelbase. Could be challenging for 80 year old's to get in and out of the back doors.
Looks like an oil leak in the pic. do EV's even have oil leaks? I'd think the marketing department could do better. Are those pic's in a parking garage? I bet there are homeless just outside of the of shot picture area.
I suppose it would work ok for Barney Frank and his husband.
dayglow Red just screams that "I am over compensating for something".
Other wise, seems legit.

 

[outside shooter]

also will see a crystal blue

 

[hoosboot]

Red just screams that "I am over compensating for something".

You mean like this?

It was a joe hooptie 🤓

460, punched and stroked.
.565” x 305 degree intake cam
Ran a tunnel ram and 2- 660 Hollie’s
When the temp and air pressure were JUUUUUST right… it’d talk @ 6200

🤣

 

[secondasky]

Driving this tomorrow.

Looked at or drove Pilot, Highlander, VW Atlas, Mazda CX-90 PHEV. Local Mazda didn't have red, but one 30 mi away does.

Didn't get to drive a Highlander Hybrid, since nobody has inventory. Dealer said several months wait. Grand Highlander is coming sometime this summer. Roomier, but maybe bigger than I need.

That looks to be your style and color

 

[outside shooter]

Mazda "Soul Red Crystal" has always been a stunner. The wife wanted a red Miata a couple of years ago, but it is too cramped for a 6'0" human. She got a Mini Cooper convertible instead, which even my 6'4" son fits in. Fun car with the BMW engine.

 

[abraxis]

Pulling the engine to diagnose? Find another mechanic.
It's either not getting fuel
or it's not getting fire
Or it's not getting air.
** or it has no compression
Pulling and engine to identify which part of the tetrahedron is missing, means the mechanic needs to make a boat payment.

edit ** compression

Intake, compression, power, exhaust…Auto Mechanics 101, day one.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Intake, compression, power, exhaust…Auto Mechanics 101, day one.

They've now added 101.1

+ positive elect cable - I guess this could be the intake
- negative elect cable - exhaust?

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I'd check to make sure your plug wires are plugged in in the right order. If the wires aren't connecting the plugs to right distributor terminals they will fire out of order.

They don’t have distributors anymore. Coil on plug or coil near plug. You can’t screw it up. You can damage the parts though. Plugs and wires are fragile.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

The injector cleaners you add to the gas tank aren't going to do anything for significant buildup: believe me, I tried. You have to get to the fuel injector and tap the injector with a wire hooked up to a car battery, which opens up the injector. You can then rig something up to shoot fuel injector cleaner through each injector.

Especially if it’s direct injection. I suspect he might have a lot of buildup causing his problem.

 

[Cthulhu85]

They don’t have distributors anymore. Coil on plug or coil near plug. You can’t screw it up. You can damage the parts though. Plugs and wires are fragile.

Good to know. I'll be getting a newer car later this year. I'll need to update myself.

 

[UncleMark]

Good to know. I'll be getting a newer car later this year. I'll need to update myself.

I was more or less a lifer in the car business until 20 years ago. After retiring I got the NAPA delivery job. Completely different world now. Selling spark plugs is a rarity anymore.

 

[outside shooter]

Put a deposit on a car arriving in a week