We were not winning without X

[Cavanagh]

The finality of the season is sinking in for me. Very frustrating season. IMO it all stems around not having X. This team looks so much different with him at the helm. For as good as JHS was, he didn't nearly have the impact on the other players that X would have had. X assist rate was ranked 14th nationally last year, and 4th when at Pitt. Next year it will be top 10 again.

It would have been special when X got comfortable with JHS. X has no problem facilitating and getting the ball to the right player. JHS does. His game centers around him scoring, if he isn't scoring he is gonna have a bad game. Couple that with he is a freshmen, you aren't winning in the tourney. Look at Brandon 9 Millimeter. Tourney is a whole new deal for these kids. Experience wins.

X will lead this team and we will over achieve for the first time since Nam next year. We won't have expectations, but we will make the tourney and X will lead us.

Tough year this year, I am going to enjoy the summer transfers coming in. Time to turn the page from TJD. Maybe we can have an offense based around three point shooters???? A guy can dream.

 

[Beorik]

I agree with your sentiment. I am only disappointed that X got hurt. I most certainly wouldn’t have predicted the year we had without him. X being back next year will be huge for us.

 

[Pryght]

These numbers are a bit skewed due to schedule differences, but...

 

[Cavanagh]

These numbers are a bit skewed due to schedule differences, but...

View embedded media

Straw that stirs the drink.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

The finality of the season is sinking in for me. Very frustrating season. IMO it all stems around not having X. This team looks so much different with him at the helm. For as good as JHS was, he didn't nearly have the impact on the other players that X would have had. X assist rate was ranked 14th nationally last year, and 4th when at Pitt. Next year it will be top 10 again.

It would have been special when X got comfortable with JHS. X has no problem facilitating and getting the ball to the right player. JHS does. His game centers around him scoring, if he isn't scoring he is gonna have a bad game. Couple that with he is a freshmen, you aren't winning in the tourney. Look at Brandon 9 Millimeter. Tourney is a whole new deal for these kids. Experience wins.

X will lead this team and we will over achieve for the first time since Nam next year. We won't have expectations, but we will make the tourney and X will lead us.

Tough year this year, I am going to enjoy the summer transfers coming in. Time to turn the page from TJD. Maybe we can have an offense based around three point shooters???? A guy can dream.

Too many here are looking forward to a nee offends without TJD. I’m afraid we’ll rue the day that anyone is glad that he’s gone

 

[Cavanagh]

Too many here are looking forward to a nee offends without TJD. I’m afraid we’ll rue the day that anyone is glad that he’s gone

I love TJD, he never hit a shot further than a FT in his career. Very hard to win that way in todays game. Turn the page, it is time.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

I love TJD, he never hit a shot further than a FT in his career. Very hard to win that way in todays game. Turn the page, it is time.

I’m just stuck thinking what we could have accomplished with TJD PLUS a strong PG an and a reliable 6’8” shooter. I’ll eventually move past it 😂😂

 

[Pryght]

 

[8Stars5Banners]

View embedded media

I just hope X isn’t the best player leading garbage next year

 

[Cavanagh]

I just hope X isn’t the best player leading garbage next year

Get the popcorn ready. It is transfer season.

 

[Beorik]

Too many here are looking forward to a nee offends without TJD. I’m afraid we’ll rue the day that anyone is glad that he’s gone

I am certainly looking forward to a new offense. Just not an offense without TJD. I think we had too many players that couldn’t handle the ball and create, or shoot. TJD proved this year he could do everything but shoot from range. I don’t think having 2 or 3 people in at once that can’t shoot or create for others is good. Any time we had any combination of TJD, Race, Reneau, or Geronimo in together we were very far from Woodson’s vision for offense. We will miss TJD very much but I hope we look very different offensively next year.

 

[Crayfish57]

The finality of the season is sinking in for me. Very frustrating season. IMO it all stems around not having X. This team looks so much different with him at the helm. For as good as JHS was, he didn't nearly have the impact on the other players that X would have had. X assist rate was ranked 14th nationally last year, and 4th when at Pitt. Next year it will be top 10 again.

It would have been special when X got comfortable with JHS. X has no problem facilitating and getting the ball to the right player. JHS does. His game centers around him scoring, if he isn't scoring he is gonna have a bad game. Couple that with he is a freshmen, you aren't winning in the tourney. Look at Brandon 9 Millimeter. Tourney is a whole new deal for these kids. Experience wins.

X will lead this team and we will over achieve for the first time since Nam next year. We won't have expectations, but we will make the tourney and X will lead us.

Tough year this year, I am going to enjoy the summer transfers coming in. Time to turn the page from TJD. Maybe we can have an offense based around three point shooters???? A guy can dream.

JHS made some of the worst passes I've ever seen. At least 3 or 4 to TJD that weren't close, one went over the backboard, he also sailed one out of bounds a good 3 ft over Kopp that I remember. X wouldve been better getting TJD the ball on lobs for sure overall.

 

[Hoosier in Mad Town]

We weren’t winning with X.

The team was markedly better with JHS running the show. It wasn’t hard to see.

I’m sure X is a great kid, but he won’t lead a team to anything of note.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

We weren’t winning with X.

The team was markedly better with JHS running the show. It wasn’t hard to see.

I’m sure X is a great kid, but he won’t lead a team to anything of note.

X+TJD could have been special

 

[RegionHoosiers]

X+TJD could have been special

They sure looked good together down the stretch last season.

 

[Falky22]

The biggest miss for me not having X in the lineup was our defense wasn’t nearly as good. IU had no one who could match his ball pressure.

 

[HoosierPete]

I love TJD, he never hit a shot further than a FT in his career. Very hard to win that way in todays game. Turn the page, it is time.

I believe that is Woodson’s biggest failure. How can you have 2 years with an athlete like TJD and not coach him into a 10’ to12’ jump shot. That would have made a huge difference.

 

[abraxis]

The finality of the season is sinking in for me. Very frustrating season. IMO it all stems around not having X. This team looks so much different with him at the helm. For as good as JHS was, he didn't nearly have the impact on the other players that X would have had. X assist rate was ranked 14th nationally last year, and 4th when at Pitt. Next year it will be top 10 again.

It would have been special when X got comfortable with JHS. X has no problem facilitating and getting the ball to the right player. JHS does. His game centers around him scoring, if he isn't scoring he is gonna have a bad game. Couple that with he is a freshmen, you aren't winning in the tourney. Look at Brandon 9 Millimeter. Tourney is a whole new deal for these kids. Experience wins.

X will lead this team and we will over achieve for the first time since Nam next year. We won't have expectations, but we will make the tourney and X will lead us.

Tough year this year, I am going to enjoy the summer transfers coming in. Time to turn the page from TJD. Maybe we can have an offense based around three point shooters???? A guy can dream.

I feel your pain on X going down. We all felt it at the same wincing moment. As hard as we tried to downplay his loss through rationalization, his lost talent with experience bit us in the ass, as we all knew it eventually would deep in heart. With this season lost springs the hope that changes bring, the thrill of uncertainty, the ingredients of dreams.

 

[abraxis]

I believe that is Woodson’s biggest failure. How can you have 2 years with an athlete like TJD and not coach him into a 10’ to12’ jump shot. That would have made a huge difference.

I think he took fewer jump shots this season than any of his previous ones. I saw him hit more half court shots in warmups than I did any jump shot in games. This is the enigma of his college career, the limited arsenal to his game.

 

[.Gerdis]

Looking at the numbers the last four years, and the biggest variation has been on offense. Below are KP ratings (overall, offense and defense). Note that this year we were 27th in offense after being 107th last year. That’s a massive jump. We were 65th and 70th under Miller. On the flip side, defensively we have been fairly consistent. Slipping from 24th to 43rd, almost identical to the last two Miller teams.

I will repeat something here that @Paterfamilias mentioned, which I thought was extremely astute. While we may have been 43rd on D, it was rare that we played at that level. Sometimes we played D at a top 10 level, and at other times we offered little to no defensive resistance.

2020 34th/65th/26th (Miller)
2021. 50th/70th/43rd. (Miller)
2022. 48th/107th/24th
2023. 31st/27th/43rd

But, Cav., getting back to your point: No doubt losing x was a big blow, and certainly we would have been better on both sides of the ball with him. However, we had him (and no JHS) last year, and this year we were much better offensively. Some of that was improved play from Miller, TJD, some of that was Trey staying healthy (with a much improved shot), but quite a bit of that was JHS. Yes, he was a little up and down. But, I can promise you this: coaches needed to prepare against him. He was a big part of our improvement on offense.

As to the portal, it will be interesting to see. I think with x back it’s reasonable to worry more about replacing offense, I think the D will be fine.

Looking over those KP numbers, I was surprised how similar the numbers were over the last 4 years. And I know that it’s just one set of numbers, and we had a four seed this year. But, I was shocked how similar we were this year to four years ago.

 

[Harry Hondo]

We weren’t winning with X.

The team was markedly better with JHS running the show. It wasn’t hard to see.

I’m sure X is a great kid, but he won’t lead a team to anything of note.

Stats may say differently. 2021-22 season IU just had 4 losses by double digits and none by 20+ in the regular season. This past season we had 7 double digit losses and 2 by 20+ points. It’s arguable then that last years team, even with more total losses, was ultimately more competitive.

I will also point out that X was a more consistent scorer and didn’t have as many bad games as JHS, especially in the second half of the season. He is also a much better defender. Frankly, if the team this year could’ve had X at the point and JHS at the 2 you’d have to think we would’ve been more competitive and won more games.

 

[duvallj]

The finality of the season is sinking in for me. Very frustrating season. IMO it all stems around not having X. This team looks so much different with him at the helm. For as good as JHS was, he didn't nearly have the impact on the other players that X would have had. X assist rate was ranked 14th nationally last year, and 4th when at Pitt. Next year it will be top 10 again.

It would have been special when X got comfortable with JHS. X has no problem facilitating and getting the ball to the right player. JHS does. His game centers around him scoring, if he isn't scoring he is gonna have a bad game. Couple that with he is a freshmen, you aren't winning in the tourney. Look at Brandon 9 Millimeter. Tourney is a whole new deal for these kids. Experience wins.

X will lead this team and we will over achieve for the first time since Nam next year. We won't have expectations, but we will make the tourney and X will lead us.

Tough year this year, I am going to enjoy the summer transfers coming in. Time to turn the page from TJD. Maybe we can have an offense based around three point shooters???? A guy can dream.

Right on! With X in the lineup, we win at least 4 more games and finish around 27-8 and in the Top 10 of the final regular season poll. And that's a conservative estimate. Higher seed in the tourney would have meant a better chance to make to Sweet 16 and maybe the Elite 8.

 

[oldcougar77]

We weren’t winning with X.

The team was markedly better with JHS running the show. It wasn’t hard to see.

I’m sure X is a great kid, but he won’t lead a team to anything of note.

Bad take. With X healthy, it was never a choice of X orJHS. It's how much better we would have been with both on the floor and Galloway as the third guard ( rather than Bates getting those minutes). JHS couldn't do some of the things XJ can, especially defensively. There is zero to back up your claim that we were not winning with X.

 

[Hatchets7times]

X..meh .
Guys that can ball go to the association in one or two yrs.
He'd get ate up by the better gaurds at Miami. KSU ..Texas. And when things don't go his way.He retaliates in stupid ways.
Hate everything about his game..

 

[bawlmer]

I believe that is Woodson’s biggest failure. How can you have 2 years with an athlete like TJD and not coach him into a 10’ to12’ jump shot. That would have made a huge difference.

Woodson turned TJD into a solid pro prospect by increasing his blocks and defense. But Trayce seems to really like playing within his comfort zone when it comes to shooting. He still rarely used his right hand even at the rim. He just wasn't comfortable shooting away from the rim.

 

[oldcougar77]

X..meh .
Guys that can ball go to the association in one or two yrs.
He'd get ate up by the better gaurds at Miami. KSU ..Texas. And when things don't go his way.He retaliates in stupid ways.
Hate everything about his game..

There are a lot of things about X that are frustrating. Sometimes I'd like to wring his neck for the dumb things he does. But if you think IU wouldn't have been much better with him this year than without him, you either don't know much about basketball or, more likely, you are letting your bias get the best of your brain.

And no, he wouldn't get "ate up" by those guards. He is among the top guards in the country when it comes to "on-ball" defense. We struggled mightily in conference play and in the B!G tourney, as well as in the NCAAT against quick guards. X would have given us a much better chance against those teams.

 

[T.M.P.]

The team was markedly better with JHS running the show. It wasn’t hard to see.

No it wasn't ... what exactly did you see?

 

[Crayfish57]

Woodson turned TJD into a solid pro prospect by increasing his blocks and defense. But Trayce seems to really like playing within his comfort zone when it comes to shooting. He still rarely used his right hand even at the rim. He just wasn't comfortable shooting away from the rim.

His value in NBA is defense and rebounding but will still need to play outside more. His shot blocking and 2nd jump are his biggest current assets

 

[.Gerdis]

There are a lot of things about X that are frustrating. Sometimes I'd like to wring his neck for the dumb things he does. But if you think IU wouldn't have been much better with him this year than without him, you either don't know much about basketball or, more likely, you are letting your bias get the best of your brain.

And no, he wouldn't get "ate up" by those guards. He is among the top guards in the country when it comes to "on-ball" defense. We struggled mightily in conference play and in the B!G tourney, as well as in the NCAAT against quick guards. X would have given us a much better chance against those teams.

Coach W worked hard with him on this last year, and as the year went on, he was better. Coach also mentioned that X came into this year with 180 degree change in attitude over last year. I believe that adversity can build character, so hopefully he is the leader we need next year.

 

[82hoosier]

They sure looked good together down the stretch last season.

Good is a relative term. They got to play in game for the NCAA tournament and got absolutely pounded by Saint Mary's. Don't forget that the Hoosiers were down by 35 points with a good bit of time left in the game when St Mary's emptied their bench. To me the highlight of that season was the cheerleader retrieving the basketball. Or maybe breaking the losing streak against Purdue. No, I will go with the cheerleader.

It wasn't until watching the game against Miami that I really became aware that the Big 10 is a second-class conference when it comes to guard play. The Hoosiers got schooled by the Penn State guards among others. And JHS barely showed up last week. I thought pretty much every sweet 16 team in the tournament had better guard player than the Hoosiers.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

Good is a relative term. They got to play in game for the NCAA tournament and got absolutely pounded by Saint Mary's. Don't forget that the Hoosiers were down by 35 points with a good bit of time left in the game when St Mary's emptied their bench. To me the highlight of that season was the cheerleader retrieving the basketball. Or maybe breaking the losing streak against Purdue. No, I will go with the cheerleader.

It wasn't until watching the game against Miami that I really became aware that the Big 10 is a second-class conference when it comes to guard play. The Hoosiers got schooled by the Penn State guards among others. And JHS barely showed up last week. I thought pretty much every sweet 16 team in the tournament had better guard player than the Hoosiers.

I was referring to X and TJD playing together and running the pick and roll. Something IU didn't do as well this year. JHS was not the point guard as a freshmen that X was last year and would have been this year. He wasn't the defender either. Guess there's no point in arguing but I think the season would have been much better with X.

 

[T.M.P.]

I really became aware that the Big 10 is a second-class conference when it comes to guard play.

It's been that way for quite awhile.

 

[T.M.P.]

I was referring to X and TJD playing together and running the pick and roll. Something IU didn't do as well this year. JHS was not the point guard as a freshmen that X was last year and would have been this year. He wasn't the defender either. Guess there's no point in arguing but I think the season would have been much better with X.

X isn't perfect but he brought certain hard to find qualities to the team.

Defense took a dive in efficiency after he went down going from 10/20 range to the 40s. His on ball defense, which is the tip of the spear of IU's D, was truly missed. He really heats to ball up ... and containing ballhandlers was a huge issue for IU all year.

Anyone saying we were better without him, is basically basketball ignorant and a student of Dunning Kruger basketball theory.

He also had the ability to penetrate defenses at will, and draw fouls from dribble penetration. No one else on the team could do that near as well.
X also had better chemistry with TJD, far better. he didn't throw lobs into the stands. It would have given IU more options, more plays, more bodies..

He has flaws, but he also has some glaring strengths. Managed correctly, he's easily a net positive.

 

[.Gerdis]

I was referring to X and TJD playing together and running the pick and roll. Something IU didn't do as well this year. JHS was not the point guard as a freshmen that X was last year and would have been this year. He wasn't the defender either. Guess there's no point in arguing but I think the season would have been much better with X.

It is obvious that we would have been better with X. While the offense was much better this season compared to last, we still missed that second primary ball handler and facilitator on offense. Defensively x could cut the head off of the snake.

 

[BusdriverE]

So is X definitely coming back? Don’t know what the %are that allow him to do that, just haven’t seen it in writing yet

 

[Cavanagh]

So is X definitely coming back? Don’t know what the %are that allow him to do that, just haven’t seen it in writing yet

99 %. Will be confirmed day of the championship game.

 

[.Gerdis]

99 %. Will be confirmed day of the championship game.

That he was granted the waiver, or that he is planning on coming back and applying for the waiver?

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

The finality of the season is sinking in for me. Very frustrating season. IMO it all stems around not having X. This team looks so much different with him at the helm. For as good as JHS was, he didn't nearly have the impact on the other players that X would have had. X assist rate was ranked 14th nationally last year, and 4th when at Pitt. Next year it will be top 10 again.

It would have been special when X got comfortable with JHS. X has no problem facilitating and getting the ball to the right player. JHS does. His game centers around him scoring, if he isn't scoring he is gonna have a bad game. Couple that with he is a freshmen, you aren't winning in the tourney. Look at Brandon 9 Millimeter. Tourney is a whole new deal for these kids. Experience wins.

X will lead this team and we will over achieve for the first time since Nam next year. We won't have expectations, but we will make the tourney and X will lead us.

Tough year this year, I am going to enjoy the summer transfers coming in. Time to turn the page from TJD. Maybe we can have an offense based around three point shooters???? A guy can dream.

And Tamar will get drafted? 🤣

 

[ORG]

The finality of the season is sinking in for me. Very frustrating season. IMO it all stems around not having X. This team looks so much different with him at the helm. For as good as JHS was, he didn't nearly have the impact on the other players that X would have had. X assist rate was ranked 14th nationally last year, and 4th when at Pitt. Next year it will be top 10 again.

It would have been special when X got comfortable with JHS. X has no problem facilitating and getting the ball to the right player. JHS does. His game centers around him scoring, if he isn't scoring he is gonna have a bad game. Couple that with he is a freshmen, you aren't winning in the tourney. Look at Brandon 9 Millimeter. Tourney is a whole new deal for these kids. Experience wins.

X will lead this team and we will over achieve for the first time since Nam next year. We won't have expectations, but we will make the tourney and X will lead us.

Tough year this year, I am going to enjoy the summer transfers coming in. Time to turn the page from TJD. Maybe we can have an offense based around three point shooters???? A guy can dream.

IU will be much better with X than without him. However, even if X does not play, they may find another quality point guard for next year. It's a long shot, but it my happen.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

“We weren’t winning without Tamar.”

“We weren’t winning without X.”