I don't know who you're listening to. Actual Democratic politicians aren't running on "resist and investigate."
We’re gonna impeach that motherfker
- Thread starter stollcpa
- Start date
That was the post that told me exactly the kind of cat I was dealing with. Thus I ended the discussion.
Nobody knows more about independent moderates than I do. Believe me; I know independent moderates and you sir, are not one.
There are, yes. That said, with regards to Trump, most of us have taken a position. Those who want to give him the benefit of the doubt or play whatabout are in the minority. In fact, many of those have left after being unable to defend their positions.
I did not vote for Trump and am unlikely to do so should he run again. That said, there are some good outcomes and those that can't see that are simply not objective. That said, the Dems are also a hot mess right now. Those tha cannot see that are again...simply not objective. I am more frustrated than ever as no one in Washington is speaking for me.
The folks jabbing at me above have posting histories that illuminate their partisan bias.
Can you expand on what the outcomes from Trump are that you think are good? And also why you think the Dems are a mess right now?
Happy to provide opinions on any aspect you want assuming you are capable of seeing both sides and giving credit where credit is due and criticizing the home team, Your posts don't indicate this so does it make sense for me to spend time here only to get the highly biased nasty responses I have seen so far.
I despise DT as a human being and disagree with 60% of his policy positions. I despise both Clintons as human beings and disagree with 50% of their policy positions. I held my nose and voted for her. I like Obama personally and some of his positions but disagree with how ACA was designed (from a results standpoint). I also feel he and others on the left greatly accelerated the division in this country opening the door for DT. I put very little credence in anything coming from FOX news or MSNBC as they are simply entertainment outlets pandering to a specific audience.
I'll stop ther for now. Label away.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I’m pretty much with you all the way (I’m a conservative that held his nose and voted for Clinton) until the trope of Obama being the reason that DJT’s nonsense emerged. Obama and his “causing division” is nonsense that came from the right wing media powerhouses and people believed it hook line and sinker. In reality, Obama made many mistakes (eg Syria, not getting enough of a carrot or stick to require insurance mandate, etc) but the division junk is just a part of a very well executed misinformation campaign borne out by Fox, Rush, and Russia.
ACA was his and it created significant wedge between people as entitlements were paid for by those millions who lost good coverage via premiums through the roof and deductibles that disabled the practice use of their policies. As an employer, ACA was poorly designed and executed with no platforms for adjustment. This is just one example.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
At least you’re posting in good faith over a policy and not jumping to “he was a race-baiter!” as many knuckle-draggers would do.
The “millions lost insurance” line is a hotly debated one. I believe the going consensus is that more gained than lost. That’s how this works. The healthy pay premiums which benefit the sick and then are cared for when it’s their turn to be sick. The actively working pay social security for those already on it and the circle of life continues.
I don’t see this as divisive. I see this as a fact of life. As someone who now works in a space adjacent to healthcare, I can tell you what we currently do is completely unsustainable. I also don’t think Medicare for All is feasible. I was a big fan of the gist of the ACA, but the risk pools weren’t well implemented and the carrot/stick wasn’t strong enough. Yes that’s a policy failure of Obama but to call it “divisive” is odd choice of words.
https://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/millions-lost-insurance/
Without claiming Obama is perfect or that the ACA is a beautiful wonder, I think there's plenty of revisionist history that started the day he was elected. (1) Obama picked a market-friendly approach (i.e., not single payer, kept Big Medical as part of the process, had some shared roots in a proposal from Heritage/Romney, etc.) and not some commie thing despite the vocal critics' cries otherwise; (2) he wanted at least some Republican support and slowed down in an effort to secure it when he naively though it was possible and ended up getting strung along by Grassley when no support, compromise or good faith involvement was ever coming from a group that would never help him in a million years on anything and generally had no interest in meaningful healthcare reform period; (3) the town hall disinformation campaigns over a Congressional break further helped to set the process on fire and made reasonable debate impossible, including from "moderate" Democrats from swing states who had to be bought off to hold the thing together; (4) Kennedy died and made the crunch to get it over the goal line in the best form possible an urgent one and that late-game rush got mischaracterized as "jamming it down people's throats" when he would have been far better off to have expedited it early on without waiting on Grassley (because he more clearly had the votes early on and wouldn't have seen the bill get watered down via unreasonable demands and ridiculous attacks the longer it went on).
It was a travesty of Congressional partisanship, corruption and lack of responsibility.
Thanks for the civil response unlike the "knuckle draggers" as you say above in this thread.
i didn't say "lost insurance", I say lost the good coverage they had. Premiums went up along with deuctables making many in the middle class lose the practical coverage they had. Policies went from usable tools to very expensive safety nets useful only in extreme cases such as heart attacks, strokes, serious injuries etc. when workers co pay $1,000 a month for a plan with a $9K deductable...up from $600 a month with $1,500 deductable...they lost a lot and they know exactly why. Similar to i megaton, this is divisive regardless of what side you fall on.
I agree this is not sustainable.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I can agree that in many policies, talking political policies here not medical insurance policies, there are invariably going to be winners and losers. I don’t view this as being uniquely divisive, it’s a tale as old as time. He was clearly trying to improve the American healthcare problem, it was being stonewalled from day one.
Most criticism I hear of Obama being a divider, is racial and ridiculous in nature. so now I know what you were trying to say, and while I disagree with you, it’s not as nonsensical as I originally thought, so I extend my apologies for using that word. But, to my original point, it wasn’t Obama’s policies in and of themselves that led to Trump’s terrible popularity, it was wholly due to the propaganda campaigns against Obama.
There were millions of losers in this case. I employ about 150 people and while my contribution went up 15% as a direct result of ACA, my employee families still got slammed. It isn't right and it needs to be fixed...they resent it deeply.
Unfortunately, and adding to the divisive situation is something you mention. Criticism against anything related to Obama invluding his policies was often labeled as racist by certain groups. I always had a problem with it and know that it contributed to the situation we have today. Lots of people really resented it. There were plenty of no 24 karat racists on both sides of any debate about the Obama presidency but the label was used for convenience...a lot.
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