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Trump is waving a white flag.

82hoosier

All-American
Sep 7, 2001
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He is going to blame the governors for the complete failure of his administration. Not a single state in compliance to enter phase one and yet the economy is opening up. Trump is throwing America under the bus, making a desperate gamble that an economic recovery might get him reelected. He is washing his hands of the health crisis.
 
He is going to blame the governors for the complete failure of his administration. Not a single state in compliance to enter phase one and yet the economy is opening up. Trump is throwing America under the bus, making a desperate gamble that an economic recovery might get him reelected. He is washing his hands of the health crisis.

His supporters left him, he is just leading from behind.
 
He is going to blame the governors for the complete failure of his administration. Not a single state in compliance to enter phase one and yet the economy is opening up. Trump is throwing America under the bus, making a desperate gamble that an economic recovery might get him reelected. He is washing his hands of the health crisis.
Yes he is, but it was inevitable. People won’t listen after this month.
 
He is going to blame the governors for the complete failure of his administration. Not a single state in compliance to enter phase one and yet the economy is opening up. Trump is throwing America under the bus, making a desperate gamble that an economic recovery might get him reelected. He is washing his hands of the health crisis.
Well, here's another bottom of the list guy.
 
Come on guys and gals, the whole notion the economy and a health issue such as this pandemic rests on the shoulders of whoever sits in the Oval Office is really silly.

So Trump being reelected just because of the economy and stock market didn't make sense.

By the same token, expecting Trump to make all the right calls in this pandemic situation and making a big difference in what finally happens also doesn't seem logical to me.

I say put the economy and pandemic aside, and just ask yourself who you want in the White House come 2021.

Having said that, I find it hard to believe the Trump leadership style and personality as exhibited during his pandemic press conferences haven't worked against his reelection bid.
 
Word is death rates are much higher than reported. States are seeing unusually higher death rates (outside of what's been reported) in the last few months and are assuming a majority of those deaths are related to COVID.

Doesn't matter though because our half of country is a certain type and led by that type. There's a word for them but I won't say it.
 
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It’s great that he’s using people’s lives to fuel his re-election gamble. o_O

He is going to blame the governors for the complete failure of his administration. Not a single state in compliance to enter phase one and yet the economy is opening up. Trump is throwing America under the bus, making a desperate gamble that an economic recovery might get him reelected. He is washing his hands of the health crisis.
 
Yes he is, but it was inevitable. People won’t listen after this month.
I don't know...

FB-IMG-1588712698104.jpg
 
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Word is death rates are much higher than reported. States are seeing unusually higher death rates (outside of what's been reported) in the last few months and are assuming a majority of those deaths are related to COVID.

Doesn't matter though because our half of country is a certain type and led by that type. There's a word for them but I won't say it.

Why don't you just go ahead and tell us all what that word is for "a certain type?"
 
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Word is death rates are much higher than reported. States are seeing unusually higher death rates (outside of what's been reported) in the last few months and are assuming a majority of those deaths are related to COVID.

Doesn't matter though because our half of country is a certain type and led by that type. There's a word for them but I won't say it.
Word
 
They are the ones demanding an opening ahead of his 14 day downward trend.
I’m losing the point of staying shut down, as many are. We shut down to flatten the curve, ramp up the healthcare system and make sure we had adequate beds. We did that. We didn’t do anything (yet) to get rid of it. So we just kicked the can for six weeks getting prepped. Either we stay inside until we get a treatment/vaccine or go back to work and recognize their will be deaths. Staying home in some sort of short-term purgatory serves no purpose now.
 
As I tell my right wing friends that if they are right then there is nothing to fear and I completely over reacted.

If I'm right then you or people you love will either be gone forever or ****ed up to the point that they won't be able to live their lives like they used to.

Now how do you feel about your freedoms if you have permanent lung damage?

Anyway, my number one beef with Trump is is complete lack of command. A pandemic or a war needs a leader who is going to be able to take the heat and make tough decisions. By leaving it up to the states you get this divisive mess that we are currently in as a virus doesn't understand state borders.

Unfortunately with an airborne virus if we're not majority committed then it doesn't matter how much someone has done the things to stay safe, it just takes one person to get it from.

Unfortunately I think we basically have to go straight into the iceberg and as they say let God sort it out.
 
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I’m losing the point of staying shut down, as many are. We shut down to flatten the curve, ramp up the healthcare system and make sure we had adequate beds. We did that. We didn’t do anything (yet) to get rid of it. So we just kicked the can for six weeks getting prepped. Either we stay inside until we get a treatment/vaccine or go back to work and recognize their will be deaths. Staying home in some sort of short-term purgatory serves no purpose now.

I am just going by Trump's plan, 14 days of downward trends. I assume that was put together for a reason by people who study this stuff. I agree we cannot stay closed until there is a vaccine. Mainly because it is theoretically possible there will never be a vaccine. The question is when and what criteria determines the decision.

It may be the states opening have chosen the perfect time. I have no way of knowing. Just that they are not opening in accordance to the plan Trump laid out.
 
I’m losing the point of staying shut down, as many are. We shut down to flatten the curve, ramp up the healthcare system and make sure we had adequate beds. We did that. We didn’t do anything (yet) to get rid of it. So we just kicked the can for six weeks getting prepped. Either we stay inside until we get a treatment/vaccine or go back to work and recognize their will be deaths. Staying home in some sort of short-term purgatory serves no purpose now.

I doubt we'll ever see a 100%-effective vaccine. We'll have to live with some risk and people will have to make their decisions.

We see somewhere around 35,000 traffic deaths annually. We could cut the speed limits everywhere to 13 mph and cut that number significantly. But we've made the calculations and balanced the outcomes and you see we don't have such restrictive limits.

We could outlaw cigarettes and who knows how many lung cancer deaths we could prevent.

We could maybe eliminate covid-19 but we might all have to be welded into our residences for a year.
 
I’m losing the point of staying shut down, as many are. We shut down to flatten the curve, ramp up the healthcare system and make sure we had adequate beds. We did that. We didn’t do anything (yet) to get rid of it. So we just kicked the can for six weeks getting prepped. Either we stay inside until we get a treatment/vaccine or go back to work and recognize their will be deaths. Staying home in some sort of short-term purgatory serves no purpose now.
I’m being very careful until they find better ways of treating it. I think that’s likely to happen before a vaccine. They are learning about best practices every single day.
 
I am just going by Trump's plan, 14 days of downward trends. I assume that was put together for a reason by people who study this stuff. I agree we cannot stay closed until there is a vaccine. Mainly because it is theoretically possible there will never be a vaccine. The question is when and what criteria determines the decision.

It may be the states opening have chosen the perfect time. I have no way of knowing. Just that they are not opening in accordance to the plan Trump laid out.
Trump’s full of it. That plan was just something to fill air time and cover their asses when we have loads of deaths so they can say see you should have followed our plan. He knew it wouldn’t be followed. Hell he doesn’t want it followed.
 
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The shutdown was to give us time to source PPE and testing. But Trump has done very little. Pence and Kuchner have declared victory.. Trump pivots on every tough question to claim he is being treated unfairly. He is now running away from every health issue as trends get worse and death projections double with no end in sight.

To summarize, Trump tells the desperate to liberate themselves and ignore the federal void of leadership. Inadequate testing and tracking. The only thing Trump has provided is chaos.

If this was a cruise ship Captain Trump and family are sneaking off on the first lifeboat.
 
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The shutdown was to give us time to source PPE and testing. But Trump has done very little. Pence and Kuchner have declared victory.. Trump pivots on every tough question to claim he is being treated unfairly. He is now running away from every health issue geas trendst get worse and death projections double with no end in sight.

To summarize, Trump tells the desperate to liberate themselves and ignore the federal void of leadership. Inadequate testing and tracking. The only thing Trump has provided is chaos.
Wear masks but testing isn’t feasible. There’s too many of us. And we get tested on tues then contract it on Thur. So what. Testing won’t be routinized. And too many of our people are too recalcitrant. Outside my office window I see an army of construction workers. No masks. No social distancing. There ain’t a chance in hell those guys are going to go stand in line at the health dept.
 
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I doubt we'll ever see a 100%-effective vaccine. We'll have to live with some risk and people will have to make their decisions.
Can't recall where now, but the other day I read in a reputable publication that we have never created a successful vaccine for any coronavirus. Period. Full stop. Never. Not a one. That gave me pause.
I’m being very careful until they find better ways of treating it. I think that’s likely to happen before a vaccine. They are learning about best practices every single day.
Yeah, I think that's the best we can hope for. If I can put off getting it or my wife coming down with it, maybe if we're lucky by the time we do get it they'll know how to keep it from killing us.
 
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Wear masks but testing isn’t feasible. There’s too many of us. And we get tested on tues then contract it on Thur. So what. Testing won’t be routinized. And too many of our people are too recalcitrant. Outside my office window I see an army of construction workers. No masks. No social distancing. There ain’t a chance in hell those guys are going to go stand in line at the health dept.
It was feasible in Feb & March. But HHS screwed up the tests. So we tried to stop the spread so we might again have a shot at test-and-trace. But we gave up too soon on that so all we did was cut-off the economy at the knees. Now we're going to get maximum deaths and a limping economy.

MAGA my ass.
 
It was feasible in Feb & March. But HHS screwed up the tests. So we tried to stop the spread so we might again have a shot at test-and-trace. But we gave up too soon on that so all we did was cut-off the economy at the knees. Now we're going to get maximum deaths and a limping economy.

MAGA my ass.
One thing we haven't tried is nuking it. It worked for stopping hurricane; it might work against ChinaVirus as well. In fact, I am surprised President Trump, the smartest man ever lived, hasn't even suggested it yet.
 
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I doubt we'll ever see a 100%-effective vaccine. We'll have to live with some risk and people will have to make their decisions.

We see somewhere around 35,000 traffic deaths annually. We could cut the speed limits everywhere to 13 mph and cut that number significantly. But we've made the calculations and balanced the outcomes and you see we don't have such restrictive limits.

We could outlaw cigarettes and who knows how many lung cancer deaths we could prevent.

We could maybe eliminate covid-19 but we might all have to be welded into our residences for a year.
Yep, we made that calculation...after filling cars with airbags, stability control, ABS, crash tests, backup cameras, cutting speed limits, attacking driving and drinking, seatbelts, mandated car seats, etc, etc, etc....we didn't just do nothing. Deaths went way down even though miles driven increased. Car companies spend billions on making cars safer. We've taxed the crap out of cigarettes, and smoking has been reduced. We've spent billions on cancer. You guys are really stupid sometimes with this stuff.
 
Yep, we made that calculation...after filling cars with airbags, stability control, ABS, crash tests, backup cameras, cutting speed limits, attacking driving and drinking, seatbelts, mandated car seats, etc, etc, etc....we didn't just do nothing. Deaths went way down even though miles driven increased. Car companies spend billions on making cars safer. We've taxed the crap out of cigarettes, and smoking has been reduced. We've spent billions on cancer. You guys are really stupid sometimes with this stuff.
I don't remember them closing the roads while seatbelts were being installed?
 
Yep, we made that calculation...after filling cars with airbags, stability control, ABS, crash tests, backup cameras, cutting speed limits, attacking driving and drinking, seatbelts, mandated car seats, etc, etc, etc....we didn't just do nothing. Deaths went way down even though miles driven increased. Car companies spend billions on making cars safer. We've taxed the crap out of cigarettes, and smoking has been reduced. We've spent billions on cancer. You guys are really stupid sometimes with this stuff.

Good God, but contextual thinking is an alien concept for some of you dupes.

Yes, we did all of those things. Yet, we didn't eliminate traffic deaths and we didn't prohibit cigarettes so that we could really make a significant dent in lung cancer deaths. The calculations were made and a balance that seems to be socially acceptable was reached.

We can come close to totally eliminating deaths due to covid-19 but are we as a society willing to weld everybody into their homes for twelve months? This seems to be where the movable goalposts should be headed according to the you murderers! crowd.

So stfu about your "stupid" shit. God, in the last year or so this place has let in some real lollipops.
 
Good God, but contextual thinking is an alien concept for some of you dupes.

Yes, we did all of those things. Yet, we didn't eliminate traffic deaths and we didn't prohibit cigarettes so that we could really make a significant dent in lung cancer deaths. The calculations were made and a balance that seems to be socially acceptable was reached.

We can come close to totally eliminating deaths due to covid-19 but are we as a society willing to weld everybody into their homes for twelve months? This seems to be where the movable goalposts should be headed according to the you murderers! crowd.

So stfu about your "stupid" shit. God, in the last year or so this place has let in some real lollipops.
We haven't eliminated all the Covid deaths either, we are just trying to reduce them. I say stupid, BECAUSE YOU ARE STUPID.
 
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It was feasible in Feb & March. But HHS screwed up the tests. So we tried to stop the spread so we might again have a shot at test-and-trace. But we gave up too soon on that so all we did was cut-off the economy at the knees. Now we're going to get maximum deaths and a limping economy.

MAGA my ass.

Tbfh. I am not sure what the strategy was or there even was one. All successful countries have spent efforts on containment first and last. (Test, identity, trace, track, map them then isolate.) The desired outcome with containment is to keep the numbers low so that its manageable --- and it doesn't stress the healthcare system out to provide the best care possible per patient so that your fatality rates will be low. That's the ultimate litmus test of how a country is managing this -- fatality rate per case.

In that sense, the US isn't doing that badly or approx 5% of all cases are fatal -- compared to Italy's 13%. (But Italy as a combination of Italy style management, an ageing population and the caseload overwhelming the existing healthcare system's ability to provide quality care per patient.)

Its a question of where it is on the curve and whether there is another curve.

The more you test, the numbers will always go up. The issue then is, how do you manage it and not stress out your healthcare system which will then throw any fatality projections out of the window.
Thus, the critical importance of trying to keep the numbers low and manageable from the start. Thus containment strategy's logic.

Preparation should have started in Mid-Jan. Nobody in the world has the resources -- financially, technically and human etc than the US. Period. Nobody. Its been proven many times. Post 9/11 being the most recent.

And yet...

Its an issue of leadership. That's the bottom-line.

I have said many times, we have an unserious person for a serious job.

If resources were mobilised back in January and the communications clear and not politicised, then the results would have been vastly different.

The is zero reasons otherwise, for the wealthiest nation on earth to have 1/3rd of all cases in the world and 1/4 of all deaths -- and even that may rise depending position on the curve/s the country at. Doctor friends of mine are shaking their heads in unison wondering why this is the case.
 
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Good God, but contextual thinking is an alien concept for some of you dupes.

Yes, we did all of those things. Yet, we didn't eliminate traffic deaths and we didn't prohibit cigarettes so that we could really make a significant dent in lung cancer deaths. The calculations were made and a balance that seems to be socially acceptable was reached.

We can come close to totally eliminating deaths due to covid-19 but are we as a society willing to weld everybody into their homes for twelve months? This seems to be where the movable goalposts should be headed according to the you murderers! crowd.

So stfu about your "stupid" shit. God, in the last year or so this place has let in some real lollipops.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor..._VMT,_per_capita,_and_total_annual_deaths.png

Look at deaths per billion VMT. We've FLATTENED THE CRAP OUTTA THAT CURVE.
 
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He is going to blame the governors for the complete failure of his administration. Not a single state in compliance to enter phase one and yet the economy is opening up. Trump is throwing America under the bus, making a desperate gamble that an economic recovery might get him reelected. He is washing his hands of the health crisis.

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... But you can be certain I will take any earned or unearned credit though..​
 
One thing we haven't tried is nuking it. It worked for stopping hurricane; it might work against ChinaVirus as well. In fact, I am surprised President Trump, the smartest man ever lived, hasn't even suggested it yet.

Maybe they could get a map of projected spreading of the virus and projected deaths, then give Trump a sharpie. That should fix it.
 
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