Truly unbelievable
- Thread starter td75
- Start date
Why should anyone admit harm from Biden's execution of the withdrawal? You never owned up to the extensive, and lasting, harm that Trump did as Prez, including gutting the government that Biden inherited from Trump.
Don't believe me? Read The Fifth Risk. Trump wasn't a zero . . . he defined negative results . . . largely because of his apathy and antipathy toward government.
Biden at least answered press conference questions directly . . . Trump would simply have blamed someone else.
You're a dumbo if you think Trump would have done any better. There is no evidence to back up that thought process mr. i'm not a big trump supporter but I'll make up wild fantasies about how good he would have done.
Hard to keep track of the complaint train from some of my conservative brethren here as cosmic constantly gets the TL/DR refrain from most. If that's the line in the sand you draw, you have a lot of work to do on both sides of the aisle. I'll be looking for your posts sending all of the 1 and 2 sentence posters to the rah rah sports boards. With this new edict of more content, I'm assuming I'll be seeing you over on the rah rah sports boards with me.
No magic needed - just common sense.
You don't take soldiers out before civilians. I don't know why that's such a difficult concept. And, since Biden did that, it's 100% on him.
To suggest there was no other way out is just ignorance.
I can't believe anyone is still arguing that the withdrawal process is not 100% Biden's fault.
Are you turning into Joe Biden?
I literally said "Let's see how much fight Joe has in him" and you construed that into "let's send a bunch of troops into harms way".
I thought lawyers could read?
Just so we’re clear the position of the Democrats in this thread is.
“Yes, Biden ****ed up bad, really bad, and you’re free to criticize his tactic’s, but don’t you dare say Trump would have likely done better, even though it’s reasonable to assume that his tactics would have been better, but in the end the result would have been the same”
“Yes, Biden ****ed up bad, really bad, and you’re free to criticize his tactic’s, but don’t you dare say Trump would have likely done better, even though it’s reasonable to assume that his tactics would have been better, but in the end the result would have been the same”
What evidence do you have that Trump didn't start an evacuation.
You know - a quiet, organized evacuation. Biden has had 8 months to start an evacuation long before he did.
You're doing nothing but making excuses for Biden and, although I'm not surprised, you do like to present yourself as someone who's fair. So much for that claim.
Uh-huh . . . goading a man to fight . . . while you sit on the sidelines.
And can't own up to it . . . .
Eh....those articles basically say that they were counting what ended up happening not actually happening. There was a whole lot of 'don't blame us, our plan would have gone perfectly' running through those quotes and comments.Not quite. Trump's exit strategy was not a hard May 1, but conditions based. If the Taliban failed to meet the conditions, then the date would change.
I ran Team Trump’s Afghan withdrawal — Biden’s attempt to blame us is just sad
Biden has sought to place blame for the shocking dénouement in Afghanistan on the situation he “inherited” from the Trump administration. What a sad-sack attempt at blame-shifting, writes Kash Pate…nypost.com
Inside the Afghanistan debacle: Biden abandoned Trump’s pullout plan
President Biden’s decision to bypass his military advisers and order a complete withdrawal has left tens of thousands of Americans and friendly Afghans trapped by Taliban terrorist brigades.www.washingtontimes.com
Maybe the Trump administration would have handled things better. Maybe it would have been worse. No one will know.
Let’s take a straw poll of the troops locked behind the walls of Kabul Airport and see if general consensus is they would like to go crack some skulls.
Those crazy MF’ers are over there so JDB doesn’t have to.
Trump had the Taliban bottled up in their caves for more than a year, from February 2020 until this spring. He did that with drones, F16’s and helicopters based at Bagram and elsewhere. After the inauguration, the Taliban tested Biden with offensive operations in remote areas. Biden failed the test. Then Biden skedaddled from Bagram and all other smaller basis. Then all hell broke loose. Bagram should have been the very last place abandoned, not the first. Trump said yesterday, that he wouldn’t have left Bagram at all under these conditions. Don’t necessarily believe him, but we do know that all decisions in the first 5 months of the Biden presidency are 100% Biden (or Susan Rice). None of this chaos is the result of any decision Trump made last year.
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It's hard to leave Trump out of it when half the posts in this thread are assuring everyone that Trump wouldn't have let the withdraw happen the way it did. And to restate my disclaimer, that's not a defense of the way the Biden Administration handled things.
It's weird to say 'Trump would have handled this seamlessly' while also saying 'leave Trump out of it'.
No. Those articles do not say that. They are pretty specific about the conditions based reasons for withdrawal.
But I agree, we will never know. But like I have posted, I am pretty sure Trump would not give up names to the Taliban. So I don't think Trump could have been worse based on that fact alone.
They mean "hold on, you're interrupting my biden bashing that is totally legit because my guy would have done it so much better because he is the GOAT of presidents."
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Do you type with a straight face? Insurgent attacks surged multifold after the abortion was signed in Doha with the release of 5,000 battle hardened terrorists. Please do some basic research. The doha agreement was the beginning of the end.
Did he start an evacuation? Did Biden halt it?
I'm not defending Biden at all, and that so many of you can't grasp that speaks to your biases, not mine.
I don't know - you're the one who said an evacuation should have started immediately after the deal was signed.
I assume you have evidence that that didn't happen?
This seems to be a common theme in this thread:
"Trump would have handled this infinitely better than Biden"
"What would lead you to believe Trump would have handled this any better?"
"Leave Trump out of this!"
Evidence that something which no one claims happened didn't actually happen? Is this a joke?
I think you are misreading the room. The way I read it:
1. GOP - Biden messed up.
2. Dems - Biden did mess up. It's been a ticking time bomb since Bush.
3. GOP - Wrong...this is all on Biden. He is the president.
4. Dems - He is the president. He messed up an already terrible situation.
5. GOP - Trump had it all set up to go perfectly. He would have done it without flaw.
6. Dems - Based on what evidence? Trump showed plenty of times he was a screw-up.
7. GOP - Why do you keep bringing Trump into it. He's gone.
Biden abandoned Bagram July 2. The April 2021 Map is about the same as the February 2020 map. Yeah, Trump kept the Taliban in place. Biden did not.
No, I'm just shocked someone would resort to the most basic of all logical fallacies.
Nah my version is correct. You guys are conceding Biden’s tactics sucked and dispelling any notion that the Trump admin wouldn’t have done things so cavalierly based on pretty much nothing but resentment for Trump.
Actually, my argument is very different than Hickory's. When I say there's no reason to think it would have been any better under Trump, it has nothing to do with Trump. I think it played out pretty much the way it would have under any president.
I don't see the logical fallacy.
You said the withdrawal should have begun the day the deal was signed.
How do you know it wasn't started then?
It's a simple question. If you know, then state why. If you don't know, just say you don't know.
But you always do this - when a question is presented that shows you are talking out your ass, you claim the questioner isn't 'logical'.
Everyone see it - you're not fooling anyone.
Simply saying 'Trump kept the Taliban in place. Biden did not' seems to leave out a pretty important piece of information. Are you suggesting that Biden shouldn't have initiated the withdraw?Biden abandoned Bagram July 2. The April 2021 Map is about the same as the February 2020 map. Yeah, Trump kept the Taliban in place. Biden did not.
I'm not a military strategist, but I'd have to think that the April 2021 map would look very similar to the August 2021 map had we not withdrawn.
Have you read dmbhoosier's posts? He basically paints a picture of Trump in a cape and red tights flying in to save the day.
Biden abandoned Bagram July 2. The April 2021 Map is about the same as the February 2020 map. Yeah, Trump kept the Taliban in place. Biden did not.
Here are the "facts".
Taliban step up attacks on Afghan forces since signing U.S. deal: data
The Taliban have mounted more than 4,500 attacks in Afghanistan, marking a sharp escalation in violence, in the 45 days since signing a deal with the United States that paves the way for a U.S. troop drawdown, according to data seen by Reuters.
www.reuters.com
There is a reason why the map shifted abruptly. The Taliban were applying a slow squeeze. The Afghan government was in control of districts on paper only. Moreover, some of the districts have 3,000 people. Hardly the best metric.
It's weird to me how sensitive Trump supporters are to anything that doesn't jibe with the Trump, King of Awesome narrative. Literally anything that doesn't polish the Trump turd of a presidency is viewed as being blinded by hate.
It's only a matter of time before one of the MAGA followers makes a "Leave Britney Alone" video similar to that one that dude made for Britney Spears all those years ago.
You should probably go back and read the posts. Post #6 by Hick was the first Trump reference as a yabut. Then Cosmic on post #14 posted Trump to blame book. Only then did td75 reply Trump would not have done this badly. Then more "MAY 1!!!!!" yelping by Hick.
Then goat said it wouldn't have mattered who was President in post on post 109 thus opening the speculation if it would have been better under Trump.
So you need to adjust your timeline.
Not at all. I am saying what I said. Biden failed the Taliban spring challenge and he stupidly gave up Bagram way too early. Biden bragged in July that the Afghan military had things in hand and our withdrawal would not be like Saigon. Someday we will know why Biden left Bagram in the middle of the night without telling our Afghan or NATO allies. For now, that is the biggest blunder of the 21st century. People should be fired.
