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Top secret documents

How do we know he’s turning them in as they’re found? He certainly didn’t immediately tell Americans when the first batch were found and he’s not telling us where the second batch was found.

It’s all irrelevant, nothing is going to happen to Biden just like Clinton walked.

It’s the most disgusting thing about our Justice system. You or Aloha mistakenly take a document home and you end up custody. Politicians and other powerful people have another system of Justice. When Trump was partying with the democrats and giving them contributions he enjoyed their system. Now he’s like the rest of us when it comes to the Justice system.

Sorry you didn't get a personal phone call when they were found. They called the proper authorities when they were found...like they were supposed to do.

There's no rule that they have to dial up the press first thing to make sure stoll knows.

Biden is cooperating. Trump didn't. That's the difference. Stop trying to play the victim card.
 
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I guess I'll have to ignore what Aloha and MrBing say since you say it would have been a nothing burger. Obviously they don't know what they are talking about.:rolleyes:

I meant it was a nothing burger as far as the DOJ going after them. DOJ wouldn't be going after Trump if he had returned the documents. Do you disagree with that?

Being careless with classified information is wrong but acting like Trump was unfairly treated and this is somehow the same situation is a load of bull crap.
 
I meant it was a nothing burger as far as the DOJ going after them. DOJ wouldn't be going after Trump if he had returned the documents. Do you disagree with that?

Being careless with classified information is wrong but acting like Trump was unfairly treated and this is somehow the same situation is a load of bull crap.
Trump would have been gone after no matter how it was handled. And that’s fine but do Clinton and Biden the same way.
 
Trump would have been gone after no matter how it was handled. And that’s fine but do Clinton and Biden the same way.

When Clinton and Biden lie about having classified documents and refuse to return said documents, then yes they should be treated the same way.

And no, Trump would not have been gone after about the documents if he had handled it appropriately. You're just too blind to see through the partisan bs you are eating up.
 
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When Clinton and Biden lie about having classified documents and refuse to return said documents, then yes they should be treated the same way.

And no, Trump would not have been gone after about the documents if he had handled it appropriately. You're just too blind to see through the partisan bs you are eating up.
You’re wrong.
 
You’re wrong.

Nope. I'm not.

But curious how can you be so sure? Do you have an alternate reality where Trump cooperated? Or you just making assumptions because Trump told you to and because Trump said it then it must be fact.

Take off the partisan blinders.
 
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Why would they do any raids? Biden's having them turned in as they are found and DOJ is doing their investigation for compromise which is required. Trump held his for 18 months after asked for them and refused to turn them in so the search was necessary. It wasn't much of a raid since they arranged it and walked in the front door with Trump staffers and lawyers. They wouldn't have been so nice to you and me.
I love how what happened at Mar-A-Lardass is referred to as a “raid”.
 
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Yup, which is why Hilary didn't get in much trouble and Biden won't likely get in much trouble. It's not about the carelessness with classified documents (which yes is an issue), but about Trump's lying and refusal to return said documents.

If Trump had played ball and cooperated with the return of the documents then he would have been treated just the same. There would have been no raid, no mean DOJ going after him, and no ability for Trump to whine about how unfairly he is treated.
Working hard here.
 
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Sorry you didn't get a personal phone call when they were found. They called the proper authorities when they were found...like they were supposed to do.

There's no rule that they have to dial up the press first thing to make sure stoll knows.

Biden is cooperating. Trump didn't. That's the difference. Stop trying to play the victim card.
We can't deny that it's a political problem for Biden that he waited until after the election to reveal this. It looks like he didn't want to help the Republicans and it might have. He's going to have to face that but there is no evidence that his team didn't report that they were found and didn't turn them in properly or is not cooperating with the investigation. Trump's situation is much more serious because of how many documents he had and his intent to keep them and not cooperating and obstructing attempts to get them back.

Biden's situation will be a political problem rather than legal. Neither looks good but one is worse.
 
We can't deny that it's a political problem for Biden that he waited until after the election to reveal this. It looks like he didn't want to help the Republicans and it might have. He's going to have to face that but there is no evidence that his team didn't report that they were found and didn't turn them in properly or is not cooperating with the investigation. Trump's situation is much more serious because of how many documents he had and his intent to keep them and not cooperating and obstructing attempts to get them back.

Biden's situation will be a political problem rather than legal. Neither looks good but one is worse.

That's assuming Biden even knew he had those documents. It could have easily been a screw up by his staff (as Brad mentioned) or just something misplaced by carelessness (still an issue). Jumping to conclusions that Biden knew and purposely waited 2 years after he was elected to "find" it.

Yea, it will be more of a political issue than anything. Although stuff like this barely moves the needle anymore because 80% of the population won't change their mind regardless.
 
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That's assuming Biden even knew he had those documents. It could have easily been a screw up by his staff (as Brad mentioned) or just something misplaced by carelessness (still an issue). Jumping to conclusions that Biden knew and purposely waited 2 years after he was elected to "find" it.

Yea, it will be more of a political issue than anything. Although stuff like this barely moves the needle anymore because 80% of the population won't change their mind regardless.
But they were not found until a few days before the election. It wasn't reported they were found a few days before the election until a couple months after the election and that's a political problem. We Dems shouldn't stick our heads in the sand about political reality like Pubs do so much.

I didn't say that he or his staff knew about the documents before they found them or that he waited two years to find or report them.
 
It’s a bad look for some that are still trying to justify the differences


friday-movie-that-was-different.gif
 
But they were not found until a few days before the election. It wasn't reported they were found a few days before the election until a couple months after the election and that's a political problem. We Dems shouldn't stick our heads in the sand about political reality like Pubs do so much.

I didn't say that he or his staff knew about the documents before they found them or that he waited two years to find or report them.

sorry, thought you were talking about his election rather than midterms.
 
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Once again, we see “Trump the Victim”. It’s the characteristic GOP voters respect/expect the most from their politicians.
Call it what you want. If Trump was in office CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC and NBC would be screaming impeachment every day.

Do whatever the hell you want with Trump but don’t act like he’s not getting different treatment.
 
Do whatever the hell you want with Trump but don’t act like he’s not getting different treatment for his extremely different actions that included rounds of lying, denying, obstruction, and a total lack of cooperation stretching over not days, weeks, or months but YEARS.
I completed your statement, in the interest of accuracy.

Biden could certainly be more transparent if he wants to minimize what (yes) CNN is calling a "major political crisis" that is "spiraling out of control"
 
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Call it what you want. If Trump was in office CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC and NBC would be screaming impeachment every day.

Do whatever the hell you want with Trump but don’t act like he’s not getting different treatment.
You might have a point if it wasn't the ONLY defense (witchhunts, stolen elections, planted TS documents, etc) offered by Trump's GOP.
 
Concur with what we know and I'd rank the seriousness of the mishandling from gross negligence to willful intent based in order of Biden to Hillary to Trump. We'll learn more about Biden and Trump cases and ranking could change but it's not likely it will for which one is the worst. What bothers me about this the most is that we would lose our clearances and careers minimum but these civilians are held to so much lower standards. We can't trust politicians with national security information but we have to. It's FUBAR.
I agree with that ranking from least severe to most. Biden, then HRC is Biden+, then Trump is Biden++. Biden probably is in political damage only at this point though he could be grossly negligent too, but HRC violated the law which only required gross negligence, but wasn’t prosecuted due to lack of intent (real reason is she was HRC and running for President), it appears Trump added obstruction to gross negligence. We’ll see what happens.
 
I agree with that ranking from least severe to most. Biden, then HRC is Biden+, then Trump is Biden++. Biden probably is in political damage only at this point though he could be grossly negligent too, but HRC violated the law which only required gross negligence, but wasn’t prosecuted due to lack of intent (real reason is she was HRC and running for President), it appears Trump added obstruction to gross negligence. We’ll see what happens.
So, in your opinion, what would have happened if your or MrBing would have done what they did? Would there have been different punishment (if any) differences between the different scenarios?
 
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It’s well known that I’m a stickler on mishandling classified information and I know the rules.

No two cases are exactly the same.

It’s established that both Trump and Biden or their staffs mishandled classified information- at this point we know both included TS/SCI. We know, so far that Trump’s situation involved around 10 times more documents (could change). We know Trump knew he had them because he said he had them (and claimed they were his and that he declassified them - no evidence either is true) and refused to give.them back. So, far there is no evidence Biden knew he had these among his papers and no evidence that he tried to keep them. Biden’s situation is very similar to HRC’s, Trump’s is HRC plus. Based on what we know now.

Don’t be a hypocrite, but I fully expect you will be.
LOL You don't 'know' anything - only what you're told.

There is much more to come out and the Special Counsel will be looking into it.

One thing you left out is Trump, as President, can classify or declassify anything he wants and there is no procedure for that - he can just do it. Trump was President when he took the docs. Biden was not.

And it's not 'Biden's staff' when the docs are in his ****ING GARAGE. It was also probably not Trump's staff.

I've always been for equal treatment under the law - that's not hypocrisy. But convicting Trump as you've done and then saying 'let's wait and see' on Biden is textbook hypocrisy.
 
So, in your opinion, what would have happened if your or MrBing would have done what they did? Would there have been different punishment (if any) differences between the different scenarios?
They would have literally been in jail for probably 20+ years.

We all knew that when we were given security clearances.
 
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I agree with that ranking from least severe to most. Biden, then HRC is Biden+, then Trump is Biden++. Biden probably is in political damage only at this point though he could be grossly negligent too, but HRC violated the law which only required gross negligence, but wasn’t prosecuted due to lack of intent (real reason is she was HRC and running for President), it appears Trump added obstruction to gross negligence. We’ll see what happens.
Guess we can credit Trump again for exposing the swamp! He and Hillz.........wait a minute.

Trump/Clinton 2024
Clinton/Trump 2024

/s
 
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Why would they do any raids? Biden's having them turned in as they are found and DOJ is doing their investigation for compromise which is required. Trump held his for 18 months after asked for them and refused to turn them in so the search was necessary. It wasn't much of a raid since they arranged it and walked in the front door with Trump staffers and lawyers. They wouldn't have been so nice to you and me.
Going through Melania's underwear drawer isn't a raid? They were there all freaking day when they supposedly knew what docs were there and where they were.

It was a raid to 99.99% of the populace.
 
CNN is running with this story as their lead, 24/7, and calling it a "major political crisis" that appears to be "spiraling out of control". They have been angling to shed their deep blue reputation in recent months.
Nah, they just don't want Biden to run in 2024. That's why the Dems are all acting aghast at this. They're just shocked - SHOCKED - that Biden could have mishandled classified documents.

Once again Trump exposes the Swamp.
 
I kinda think we have to cut these guys some slack. I’m guessing the President sees confidential/top secret docs every day/ all day as Prez. Literally thousands, maybe tens of thousands of pages of this stuff in four years.

The notion that any of them then do their own filing of said documents, after reading during their time in office or when they are leaving, seems far-fetched. They have underlings to handle this stuff.

So unless you can prove the Prez ordered someone else to remove TS material or that they found it after they left and intentionally hung onto it, I’m not sure there is much to see here. (Even with Trump, I’m guessing he told his lawyers to fight just because he never wants to admit he’s wrong about anything).

To prevent this kind of thing going forward, we need tighter protocols when changing administrations on what is taken out of the White House it appears.
That would be fine if everyone was held to that standard.

Trust me - when you get a Top Security Clearance, it's pounded into your head will be your ass if you mishandle documents, particularly if you take them home.
 
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When Clinton and Biden lie about having classified documents and refuse to return said documents, then yes they should be treated the same way.

And no, Trump would not have been gone after about the documents if he had handled it appropriately. You're just too blind to see through the partisan bs you are eating up.
When did Trump lie about the documents?
 
LOL You don't 'know' anything - only what you're told.

There is much more to come out and the Special Counsel will be looking into it.

One thing you left out is Trump, as President, can classify or declassify anything he wants and there is no procedure for that - he can just do it. Trump was President when he took the docs. Biden was not.

And it's not 'Biden's staff' when the docs are in his ****ING GARAGE. It was also probably not Trump's staff.

I've always been for equal treatment under the law - that's not hypocrisy. But convicting Trump as you've done and then saying 'let's wait and see' on Biden is textbook hypocrisy.
Frankly, you don’t know any more about this subject than the straight stick civilians. You should be embarrassed.

The President can declassify but there are protocols to follow and records required. He can’t just wave a Presidential wand and decree that I hereby declassify these 50 Top Secret documents. Sources and methods have to be considered. Impacts of declassification have to be analyzed and evaluated. Agencies have to be notified. There is zero evidence any of that happened. Your pitifully poor understanding of the process would harm national security over and over again if it were accurate. Again, you should be embarrassed.

I haven’t convicted anyone. Everything I’ve said is accurate based on what is known about the two cases.

You’re absolutely being a hypocrite. I know you don’t mind, but that’s a fact.
 
Frankly, you don’t know any more about this subject than the straight stick civilians. You should be embarrassed.

The President can declassify but there are protocols to follow and records required. He can’t just wave a Presidential wand and decree that I hereby declassify these 50 Top Secret documents. Sources and methods have to be considered. Impacts of declassification have to be analyzed and evaluated. Agencies have to be notified. There is zero evidence any of that happened. Your pitifully poor understanding of the process would harm national security over and over again if it were accurate. Again, you should be embarrassed.

I haven’t convicted anyone. Everything I’ve said is accurate based on what is known about the two cases.

You’re absolutely being a hypocrite. I know you don’t mind, but that’s a fact.
We've been through this - there are protocols, but the President doesn't have to follow them. I've posted proof of that and you had no rebuttal.

You've certainly passed judgement on Trump - no backpedaling now. Nothing is 'known' outside what you've been told.

I'll never be embarrassed for pointing out the facts.
 
Going through Melania's underwear drawer isn't a raid? They were there all freaking day when they supposedly knew what docs were there and where they were.

It was a raid to 99.99% of the populace.
They knew the doc were there. HAd visited and discussed several times. Only requested that a better lock put on the door to that room. AND
AND
Er'body knows Melania doesn't wear underwear, so it was all BS political theater from the start.
 
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