This is a time it would be nice to be able to trust the president

[sglowrider]

You forgot bourbon, which could effectively handle #1-4.

My friend who works at one of the major hospitals here said vodka. She was rationalising it and seriously thinks it works. Alcohol kills it after all. Plus she needs it -- been on-call or standby every single weekend since the end of December.
I mentioned before -- so far in Singapore, there has not been any case of smokers or Muslims being quarantined.

 

[iuwclurker]

My friend who works at one of the major hospitals here said vodka. She was rationalising it and seriously thinks it works. Alcohol kills it after all. Plus she needs it -- been on-call or standby every single weekend since the end of December.
I mentioned before -- so far in Singapore, there has not been any case of smokers or Muslims being quarantined.

What do Muslims smoke or drink?

 

[iuwclurker]

My friend who works at one of the major hospitals here said vodka. She was rationalising it and seriously thinks it works. Alcohol kills it after all. Plus she needs it -- been on-call or standby every single weekend since the end of December.
I mentioned before -- so far in Singapore, there has not been any case of smokers or Muslims being quarantined.

I had an English student in Slovenia years ago. She and hubby went with a tour to the pyramids. They brought along a bottle and religiously took a shot after every meal. She claimed after they were the only two who didn’t get diarrhea.

I think it’s medically classified as a sacrificial offering to Montezuma.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

My suggestion for you folks is to stock up at home on the following. You will require both air-borne protection but also hand hygiene.

1) N95 masks. You will need a box of 50 per person
2) Hand sanitisers
3) Alcohol-based wet wipes.
4) Some eye protection too since it can penetrative via the eye's membranes. Googles or wear sunglasses if you dont want to look too paranoid.
5) Thermometers. I spoilt mine when I tried to change the bloody batts. I went to 8 neighbourhood shops to look for one but failed. They told me that they ran out weeks ago. My sister happened to be in Australia on holiday and was coming up to Singapore later that week. I had to ask her to buy both masks and a thermometer for me like I live in some 3rd world country.
6) Antiseptic soaps. We have Dettol soaps here but the dries the hell out of your hands. (I can't remember whether its an American or British brand.)

These items ran out at the start and then when the supplies came back, the prices were like 2 1/2 to 3 times more than the original prices.

There Aren't Enough Medical Masks to Fight Coronavirus. Here's Why It's Not Going to Get Better Anytime Soon

Hospitals will need more full PPE kits, alcohol swabs, more needles etc plus the above.

The experts here are saying to not use masks. A specialist yesterday said they actually can make risk of infection worse. People not used to wearing masks will continually be adjusting them, which brings one's hands up to their face. Keeping one's hands away from their face is rule #1 in avoiding infection. So they only recommend the mask for people who are already infected.

One problem we will hit is we do not pay food service well, do not give them time off, do not give them healthcare. As a result, they have a huge incentive to work sick. While this virus is not spread through food, the counterworker or wait staff can easily spread the flu.

 

[sglowrider]

The experts here are saying to not use masks. A specialist yesterday said they actually can make risk of infection worse. People not used to wearing masks will continually be adjusting them, which brings one's hands up to their face. Keeping one's hands away from their face is rule #1 in avoiding infection. So they only recommend the mask for people who are already infected.

One problem we will hit is we do not pay food service well, do not give them time off, do not give them healthcare. As a result, they have a huge incentive to work sick. While this virus is not spread through food, the counterworker or wait staff can easily spread the flu.

Wearing a proper certified mask has always been the rule here. The problem is that people don't wear it correctly.
I have not heard anyone suggesting not wearing one considering that it's airborne virus. That guy would be laughed and discredited at here.
It's correct that if you are infected you should wear one. But more importantly if you are infected, you should not be walking around. You should be quarantined in a ward.
The problem then is that in the early stages of the epidemic, some people can go undetected and untested. So without a mask, a healthy person could be infected by the undetected.

 

[Cortez88]

The Administration is going to try and push the hoax theme. This is incredible.

 

[sglowrider]

What do Muslims smoke or drink?

Dunno man. It's a mystery for us and a constant topic of discussion. I am wondering if I have been betting on the wrong horse. I am almost hoping that one gets admitted and quarantined. Almost..

Friday prayers are long and in very close proximity. Bowing into the ground etc. The saving grace maybe they all wash their hands feet and face before entering the mosque.

 

[sglowrider]

The Administration is going to try and push the hoax theme. This is incredible.

View embedded media

Hoax, smokes..

 

[sglowrider]

If you guys are interested in the containment strategy the ministry of health uses here, I can find the document.
They are basically the lessons learnt from SARs which they are following very closely.

 

[iuwclurker]

Dunno man. It's a mystery for us and a constant topic of discussion. I am wondering if I have been betting on the wrong horse. I am almost hoping that one gets admitted and quarantined. Almost..

Friday prayers are long and in very close proximity. Bowing into the ground etc. The saving grace maybe they all wash their hands feet and face before entering the mosque.

Maybe it spreads through female hair...

 

[sglowrider]

Maybe it spreads through female hair...

They have separate entrance and section of the mosque.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Wearing a proper certified mask has always been the rule here. The problem is that people don't wear it correctly.
I have not heard anyone suggesting not wearing one considering that it's airborne virus. That guy would be laughed and discredited at here.
It's correct that if you are infected you should wear one. But more importantly if you are infected, you should not be walking around. You should be quarantined in a ward.
The problem then is that in the early stages of the epidemic, some people can go undetected and untested. So without a mask, a healthy person could be infected by the undetected.

It isn't just a person, most of the networks have had people on saying the same thing. Even the World Health Organization is saying that one who is healthy does not "need to" wear a mask unless caring for someone with an infection. https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...9/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

 

[sglowrider]

It isn't just a person, most of the networks have had people on saying the same thing. Even the World Health Organization is saying that one who is healthy does not "need to" wear a mask unless caring for someone with an infection. https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...9/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

I agree that you don't need it if you are not sick. But once it kicks off, the key is containment.
So then, how do you know the guy next to you in line isn't infected? Or you maybe sick but unaware of it yet?
Incubation is between two weeks to a month in some cases.
For containment sake it's better to wear it. If there isn't the discipline then the epidemic will never die out.

 

[Bill4411]

Good luck getting Americans to follow rules, if the government decides to initiate any.

 

[sglowrider]

Good luck getting Americans to follow rules, if the government decides to initiate any.

Well it will be a self inflicted own goals or unforced errors.

The current Korean escalation/takeoff is very scary.

500+ cases in the past few
days in a row and then 800+ today. You know that each of the patients would have had met 10 people per day until they were tested and detected.
At some critical stage their healthcare infrastructure will not have been designed for such a surge of patients. And at that point onwards, care quality will drop dramatically, and fatality numbers will raise dramatically.

 

[Zizkov]

My suggestion for you folks is to stock up at home on the following. You will require both air-borne protection but also hand hygiene.

1) N95 masks. You will need a box of 50 per person
2) Hand sanitisers
3) Alcohol-based wet wipes.
4) Some eye protection too since it can penetrative via the eye's membranes. Googles or wear sunglasses if you dont want to look too paranoid.
5) Thermometers. I spoilt mine when I tried to change the bloody batts. I went to 8 neighbourhood shops to look for one but failed. They told me that they ran out weeks ago. My sister happened to be in Australia on holiday and was coming up to Singapore later that week. I had to ask her to buy both masks and a thermometer for me like I live in some 3rd world country.
6) Antiseptic soaps. We have Dettol soaps here but the dries the hell out of your hands. (I can't remember whether its an American or British brand.)

These items ran out at the start and then when the supplies came back, the prices were like 2 1/2 to 3 times more than the original prices.

There Aren't Enough Medical Masks to Fight Coronavirus. Here's Why It's Not Going to Get Better Anytime Soon

Hospitals will need more full PPE kits, alcohol swabs, more needles etc plus the above.

Thanks. Masks are already mostly sold out here. I may need to get a some more sanitisers and antiseptic wipes and soap. I'm s littel surprised there are no cases here yet. Outside of Italy, the new cases are showing up quite slowly. Not sure if we should expect a surge or if things are fairly well contained.

 

[sglowrider]

Thanks. Masks are already mostly sold out here. I may need to get a some more sanitisers and antiseptic wipes and soap. I'm s littel surprised there are no cases here yet. Outside of Italy, the new cases are showing up quite slowly. Not sure if we should expect a surge or if things are fairly well contained.

Just takes one. Or you have some crazy Korean bitch who is the super-spreader of Korea. She infected at least 140+ people todate.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I agree that you don't need it if you are not sick. But once it kicks off, the key is containment.
So then, how do you know the guy next to you in line isn't infected? Or you maybe sick but unaware of it yet?
Incubation is between two weeks to a month in some cases.
For containment sake it's better to wear it. If there isn't the discipline then the epidemic will never die out.

The issue as I have heard it explained is that there are different types of masks. The masks that are worn by the experts in the field are very uncomfortable and not easily worn for long periods. The other masks, the one with simple coils around the ears are not very good at blocking viruses. Those create a false sense of security, leading one to think it is safe to be out when it is not.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Thanks. Masks are already mostly sold out here. I may need to get a some more sanitisers and antiseptic wipes and soap. I'm s littel surprised there are no cases here yet. Outside of Italy, the new cases are showing up quite slowly. Not sure if we should expect a surge or if things are fairly well contained.

CVS and Walgreens issued a warning that hand sanitizer supplies may run out. Good news though, thorough hand washing works.

 

[sglowrider]

The issue as I have heard it explained is that there are different types of masks. The masks that are worn by the experts in the field are very uncomfortable and not easily worn for long periods. The other masks, the one with simple coils around the ears are not very good at blocking viruses. Those create a false sense of security, leading one to think it is safe to be out when it is not.

I will post the images of the masks they use here tomorrow. Getting late here.

Fyi. Some here think that hand hygiene is actually more important than the mask. Imo you need both.

 

[sglowrider]

CVS and Walgreens issued a warning that hand sanitizer supplies may run out. Good news though, thorough hand washing works.

Prices went up three fold when we got the resupply.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

I will post the images of the masks they use here tomorrow. Getting late here.

Fyi. Some here think that hand hygiene is actually more important than the mask. Imo you need both.

Surgeon General is urging people stop buying masks.

“Seriously people — STOP BUYING MASKS!” the surgeon general, Jerome M. Adams, said in a tweet on Saturday morning. “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if health care providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!”​

Link

 

[UncleMark]

Surgeon General is urging people stop buying masks.

“Seriously people — STOP BUYING MASKS!” the surgeon general, Jerome M. Adams, said in a tweet on Saturday morning. “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if health care providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!”​

Link

We use N95 masks in some areas of our production departments. I'm going to have fun when I get the next requisition from them.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

So I am NO fan of Mike Pence. But he is absolutely blowing Trump away in terms of being more "Presidential" in this news conference. Trump is standing back there behind him listing to his VP take control of the room. Funny. And sad.

 

[Stuffshot]

So I am NO fan of Mike Pence. But he is absolutely blowing Trump away in terms of being more "Presidential" in this news conference. Trump is standing back there behind him listing to his VP take control of the room. Funny. And sad.

Plus, Pence went out of his way to say "millions of Americans" are praying for the 20+ Americans who have now been confirmed with coronavirus. So what?

So, according to Pence's theology, praying for someone apparently prompts God to cure him. But, wouldn't that also mean that God isn't as eager to cure the ones that no one prayed for? Otherwise, what difference would Pence's prayers make? What kind of a God withholds a cure from an innocent human being based on the number of strangers that prayed for him? I thought God was in charge, but then again Pence seems to worship the orange god these days.

Pence's expressed religion is typical for Midwest Protestants and doesn't describe a very loving God if you think about it.

 

[zeke4ahs]

My friend who works at one of the major hospitals here said vodka. She was rationalising it and seriously thinks it works. Alcohol kills it after all. Plus she needs it -- been on-call or standby every single weekend since the end of December.
I mentioned before -- so far in Singapore, there has not been any case of smokers or Muslims being quarantined.

Good to know, my girls are totally safe. Tito’s saves the day!

 

[Bill4411]

Plus, Pence went out of his way to say "millions of Americans" are praying for the 20+ Americans who have now been confirmed with coronavirus. So what?

So, according to Pence's theology, praying for someone apparently prompts God to cure him. But, wouldn't that also mean that God isn't as eager to cure the ones that no one prayed for? Otherwise, what difference would Pence's prayers make? What kind of a God withholds a cure from an innocent human being based on the number of strangers that prayed for him? I thought God was in charge, but then again Pence seems to worship the orange god these days.

Pence's expressed religion is typical for Midwest Protestants and doesn't describe a very loving God if you think about it.

Isn’t Pence catholic?

 

[tooold4]

Isn’t Pence catholic?

He was raised Catholic, but turned evangelical (Grace church in Indy), as his political aspirations grew he toned down his admitted affiliation.

 

[sglowrider]

First death from coronavirus in the United States confirmed in Washington state

A patient infected with the novel coronavirus in Washington state has died, a state health official said Saturday, marking the first death due to the virus in the United States.

The patient was a man in his 50s who had underlying health conditions, according to Dr. Jeffrey Duchin, health officer for Seattle and King County, Washington state. President Donald Trump and US officials previously said in a press briefing that the patient was a woman.

"I want to assure that family they are on the hearts of every American," Vice President Mike Pence said.

There was no evidence the patient had close contact with an infected person or a relevant travel history that would have exposed the patient to the virus, said Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, at the White House Saturday, suggesting the patient became ill through community spread.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I find this fatality odd. Considering that the fatality rate so far is a little above 2%, with only 68 reported cases, there is already a fatality. And below the traditional vulnerable age category.

Its either some random occurrence or the reported sample size is actually much larger? Let's hope its the former.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

First death from coronavirus in the United States confirmed in Washington state

A patient infected with the novel coronavirus in Washington state has died, a state health official said Saturday, marking the first death due to the virus in the United States.

The patient was a man in his 50s who had underlying health conditions, according to Dr. Jeffrey Duchin, health officer for Seattle and King County, Washington state. President Donald Trump and US officials previously said in a press briefing that the patient was a woman.

"I want to assure that family they are on the hearts of every American," Vice President Mike Pence said.

There was no evidence the patient had close contact with an infected person or a relevant travel history that would have exposed the patient to the virus, said Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, at the White House Saturday, suggesting the patient became ill through community spread.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I find this fatality odd. Considering that the fatality rate so far is a little above 2%, with only 68 reported cases, there is already a fatality. And below the traditional vulnerable age category.

Its either some random occurrence or the reported sample size is actually much larger? Let's hope its the former.

 

[sglowrider]

The issue as I have heard it explained is that there are different types of masks. The masks that are worn by the experts in the field are very uncomfortable and not easily worn for long periods. The other masks, the one with simple coils around the ears are not very good at blocking viruses. Those create a false sense of security, leading one to think it is safe to be out when it is not.

Like I said, hand hygiene is equally important.

WHO, CDC can say what they like but Singapore was the 2nd or 3rd countries in the world to be hit by the coronavirus.

They have been very cautious/pro-active in their approach -- whether that's due to the abundance of resources or thats just who they are. Ultimately accepting the economic costs over the concerns of the citizens ie kicking into high gear the communications, education, banning of public gatherings (and there were self-imposed bans by churches) etc. With this military precision-like of the containment and control plans, to date, we have barely 100 confirmed cases and ZERO fatality.

There are some lessons learnt there.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

Potential outbreak at a Washington state long-term care facility, with 27 patients and 25 workers reporting COVID-19-like symptoms. CDC enroute to analyze and help manage the situation tonight.

Link

Edit: this one situation itself, alone, if confirmed to be Coronavirus, could itself balloon into an unmanageable outbreak. Those 25 workers: IF they have the virus, think of all the interactions they've each had since becoming carriers before symptoms started. The cat may indeed already be out of the bag.

Edit 2: 2 of the confirmed cases in Washington State are linked to this facility and both appear to be community spread.

 

[sglowrider]

Potential outbreak at a Washington state long-term care facility, with 27 patients and 25 workers reporting COVID-19-like symptoms. CDC enroute to analyze and help manage the situation tonight.

Link

With this, it's now the containment and control plans and pronto or things will start to spin out of control like in Korea.

What Singapore did was to rope in the Police detectives to start tracking and mapping the movements of the various patients ie trace contacts.

Inter-linking the possible groups.

Otherwise, I am not sure CDC has the resources to map things out for the containment plans. Then execute home isolation and quarantine for the suspects with support/logistical plans for the patients in place ie transport, food, medical/PPE supplies etc. Plus adherence.

Secondly, they started using serological tests to assist into a deeper mapping of recovered patients. Anti-bodies testing.

They need to avoid reaching that critical point of when the existing healthcare infrastructure is unable to cope and offer the best healthcare treatments.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

With this, it's now the containment and control plans and pronto or things will start to spin out of control like in Korea.

What Singapore did was to rope in the Police detectives to start tracking and mapping the movements of the various patients ie trace contacts.

Inter-linking the possible groups.

Otherwise, I am not sure CDC has the resources to map things out for the containment plans. Then execute home isolation and quarantine for the suspects with support/logistical plans for the patients in place ie transport, food, medical/PPE supplies etc. Plus adherence.

Secondly, they started using serological tests to assist into a deeper mapping of recovered patients. Anti-bodies testing.

They need to avoid reaching that critical point of when the existing healthcare infrastructure is unable to cope and offer the best healthcare treatments.

Yes speed and precision will be crucial for the response re: the potential spread from this facility. I fear there are probably several other similar infections that haven't surfaced yet. But this one alone, if it's not adequately contained, may spell doom. Washington State, while they've already declared state of emergency, may have to go on lockdown, at least around the Seattle Metro area at minimum, where this facility is located.

 

[sglowrider]

Yes speed and precision will be crucial for the response re: the potential spread from this facility. I fear there are probably several other similar infections that haven't surfaced yet. But this one alone, if it's not adequately contained, may spell doom. Washington State, while they've already declared state of emergency, may have to go on lockdown.

The thing is people need to understand the seriousness of this so that they will adhere to a lockdown and possible home isolation -- in order to prevent further spreading. This is when the political talking heads have to make that decision -- health considerations of their citizens or the financial impact of the economic -- though that's debatable since a lot more people will get food delivery and start buying everything online.
Ka-ching Bezos.

This epidemic is a bigger deal here since we have a larger proportion of the vulnerable group than say the US.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

The death in Washington State was a patient at that facility. The other two confirmed cases from that facility are a patient and a health-care worker. I think it's probably safe to say at this point that there is a Coronavirus outbreak at that facility and that there are 52 new cases of Coronavirus to add to the list for the US - from that facility alone.

 

[sglowrider]

The death in Washington State was a patient at that facility. The other two confirmed cases from that facility are a patient and a health-care worker. I think it's probably safe to say at this point that there is a Coronavirus outbreak at that facility and that there are 52 new cases of Coronavirus to add to the list for the US - from that facility alone.

Maybe. They will only be suspects and needs to be home quarantined for sure. We had thousands here home isolated. But not all turned out to be confirmed cases.

Since you dont know the unknowns, its best to err on the side of caution and isolate them ASAP. They will need to have things set up for them -- its isolation of at least two weeks. (They may change this as there are cases of recovered patients testing positive again.) Food delivery, logistics, medical supplies and adherence/policing of the isolation all need to be set up. We had cases of people early on who after a few days thought 'feck it' and went out into the general public again.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

My gut take is that not enough people here in the US will take it seriously until it gets really bad. And at some point, this may hamper even Amazon's ability to adequately respond to the demand for delivery of essential goods.

I'm never one to give in to knee-jerk reactions when gloom-and-doom predictions are made in regards to the events of the day - I don't go buy bread and milk when we get hit with a snow storm - but I think it's probably time to start at least thinking a little bit about preparedness.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

And it doesn't help either that Trump is basically saying that any Dem questioning of his response to this is another "hoax." I wish, for once (as in the spirit of the OP of this thread) that the POTUS could temporarily put politics aside and just do the right thing for the country. This is what he was elected to do. Mr. President, we have a potential crisis on our hands - do your f**king job.

 

[UncleMark]

...POTUS could temporarily put politics aside and just do the right thing for the country. This is what he was elected to do. Mr. President, we have a potential crisis on our hands - do your f**king job.

He is incapable of doing that. Which in and of itself makes him unfit for office.