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The Serious Election Day Thread

larsIU said:
I believe in incrementalism, which is why I've always shied away from Bernie. I do believe MFA (or some variant of single payor) is the future b/c it's more efficient and easier to manage. Yes, the health care industry's ox gets gored. But I think the Dems could craft a message around single payor which would resonate with many people. And minimum wage, union, etc. But they might be too far in the pockets of the billionaire club to do it now.

Agree on the wedge issues. Let the states decide them. Including, gasp, abortion (they had 50 ****ing years to codify it and failed. That's on the Dems, solely).
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Abortion is not an issue that I have huge feelings on. But, I have seen stories of women with ectopic pregnancies not being able to get treated in hospitals in states with tough laws. That is concerning, a daughter went through that 8 months ago. I would hate to think of her driving through a very restricted state when something bad happened.

Other than the fact that "life of mother" is being treated as immediate danger of death, I may not like the time frames states choose but it isn't a battle I want to fight.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
Abortion is not an issue that I have huge feelings on. But, I have seen stories of women with ectopic pregnancies not being able to get treated in hospitals in states with tough laws. That is concerning, a daughter went through that 8 months ago. I would hate to think of her driving through a very restricted state when something bad happened.

Other than the fact that "life of mother" is being treated as immediate danger of death, I may not like the time frames states choose but it isn't a battle I want to fight.
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I think the only way a "national" abortion law would work would be at 15 weeks and have that be the minimum. Beyond that the states can extend as they see fit.

Sorry to hear about your daughter. Hope she's doing well.
 
BadWakeboarder said:
Giving puberty blockers to kids and chopping dicks and breasts off of young adults with psychiatric Disorders or on the autism spectrum isn’t ****ing incrementalism - it’s a nihilistic cult that operates outside of science. Pronouns and the other nonsense aren’t incrementalism either. It’s “look at me!” bullshit.

Gay and lesbian and bisexual has been around since the dawn of time and it’s a damned shame it took this long for it to be normalized. But don’t try to say the adoption curves should be same.
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Man, talking with you about transgender issues is like talking with @mcmurtry66 about the USWNT. Trigger warnings abound.

The "culture wars" certainly include more than just this single issue. Abortion. Gay rights. Women's rights. The roles of women and men in society. The role of religion in society. There are a ton of things. Lars brought up "culture wars", but I don't think either her or I mentioned transgender. I don't think any of them (gay rights, abortion, the roles of women or religion in society) are the same. They each have their own issues and arguments. I'm merely pointing out that there have been few cases where there's been regression on these issues over the long haul. I don't know what's going to happen with transgender issues.

For as much as you claimed to like my thoughts on what Democrat messaging should be, you don't seem to embrace it much. ;)
 
hoosboot said:
Man, talking with you about transgender issues is like talking with @mcmurtry66 about the USWNT. Trigger warnings abound.

The "culture wars" certainly include more than just this single issue. Abortion. Gay rights. Women's rights. The roles of women and men in society. The role of religion in society. There are a ton of things. Lars brought up "culture wars", but I don't think either her or I mentioned transgender. I don't think any of them (gay rights, abortion, the roles of women or religion in society) are the same. They each have their own issues and arguments. I'm merely pointing out that there have been few cases where there's been regression on these issues over the long haul. I don't know what's going to happen with transgender issues.

For as much as you claimed to like my thoughts on what Democrat messaging should be, you don't seem to embrace it much. ;)
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In a few years the best uswnt player will be the worm’s daughter. Pretty wild
 
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Joe_Hoopsier said:
I bet you just can't wait for the next 4 Non Blondes concert too. Ammiright?
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giphy.gif
 
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larsIU said:
I don't know how to say this without sounding awful, but here goes (some grace please).

We're getting awfully granular as it relates to civil rights. And that granularity is now causing cracks in the civil rights victories won over all these past 75 years.

AGain, I'm trying to say something and I'm probably doing it wrong (as usual). Maybe those whose civil rights were secured oh so many years ago are now finding themselves in the position many white people were in 50 or 60 years ago. Like you said, progress isn't a straight line. But I think we're off on a tangent right now that we don't know where it ends. It used to end with "everybody is American and has the same civil rights as everyone else." I'm not sure that's what it means any more.
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You don't sound awful at all, but I think your caring whether you do is exactly where a thoughtful conversation can be had.

And I think you're asking natural questions that make a lot of sense. It's really easy to look at minority rights or gay rights or women's rights and think that those fights weren't long and hard and full of people unsure if what was being discussed was the right thing because it was different than how it had always been (or as least as long as they could remember.)

I'm just a respect and self-determination junkie, so I try to give wide latitude to people to be who they want to be. If you want me to call you Lars the Strong & Perfect, I'll try to find a way to make it work. ;)
 
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hoosboot said:
I get it. All of the folks agreeing with Bernie think he is super smart when it comes to the diagnosis, but super dumb when it comes to the prescription. They want Democrats to become Republicans.

Humbly, I don't think that's what middle class, blue collar workers want and I think some Republicans here are making the same mistake that Democrats made after the last election.
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I don't believe that anybody is asking the middle class, blue collar worker to become Republican. I just think they want a voice and to be heard, and they have finally figured out the the Democratic party was not listening. It really is not very complicated.
 
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stollcpa said:
Have you met Mike Braun and actually talked to him? I have and he’s a smart, thoughtful and reasonable man.
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No I’ve not met Mike Braun. I did hear him on 93.1 FM with Tony Katz yesterday. Depressed me to hear him say he left Washington as no one on either side of aisle cared about deficit. Braun also voted for Trickle Down which has been proven to cause huge deficits for Trump, for W Bush, and Reagan. Not that donkey has been much better. But in my view they are tax and spend and elephant was once the party of fiscal responsibility- not since 1980 have those labels carried weight
 
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Indyhorn said:
No I’ve not met Mike Braun. I did hear him on 93.1 FM with Tony Katz yesterday. Depressed me to hear him say he left Washington as no one on either side of aisle cared about deficit. Braun also voted for Trickle Down which has been proven to cause huge deficits for Trump, for W Bush, and Reagan. Not that donkey has been much better. But in my view they are tax and spend and elephant was once the party of fiscal responsibility- not since 1980 have those labels carried weight
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We will see what he does. I think he’s a good man. Although he may piss Democrats off on their Wokeism, DEI, some social issues and illegal immigration.
 
stollcpa said:
We will see what he does. I think he’s a good man. Although he may piss Democrats off on their Wokeism, DEI, some social issues and illegal immigration.
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I currently work for his company. Haven't met him but his kids are good people. He'll definitely be good for fiscal responsibility.
 
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stollcpa said:
Have you met Mike Braun and actually talked to him? I have and he’s a smart, thoughtful and reasonable man.
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He’s also willing to fvck over a bunch of folks from his hometown to make himself & his buddies a few more bucks, as if they don’t have enough. Not trying to pick a fight Stoll, & I’m all for making a fortune, but not if you already have one & unnecessarily grow it at others expense…
 
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jet812 said:
He’s also willing to fvck over a bunch of folks from his hometown to make himself & his buddies a few more bucks, as if they don’t have enough. Not trying to pick a fight Stoll, & I’m all for making a fortune, but not if you already have one & unnecessarily grow it at others expense…
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I am not trying to pick a fight either. More details please. I will get in touch with him and get his side.
 
stollcpa said:
I am not trying to pick a fight either. More details please. I will get in touch with him and get his side.
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The corridor. Who will benefit & how? Not in generalities or platitudes like “it will bring jobs to the area”, “it will drive growth “. What kind of jobs? What does “growth” mean for Huntingburg, Jasper, Loogootee, etc? Why do we need more jobs when manufacturers locally can’t fill the openings we have? Dozens of people will lose their homes & farms, how will the community as a whole benefit?
 
jet812 said:
The corridor. Who will benefit & how? Not in generalities or platitudes like “it will bring jobs to the area”, “it will drive growth “. What kind of jobs? What does “growth” mean for Huntingburg, Jasper, Loogootee, etc? Why do we need more jobs when manufacturers locally can’t fill the openings we have? Dozens of people will lose their homes & farms, how will the community as a whole benefit?
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Not a fan of the mid states corridor. I live in Loogootee. It won't do anything for this town.

What the hell ever happened to the 231 expansion? They got to I-64 and just quit.
 
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stollcpa said:
Why wouldn’t his battles be with Dems? He is a republican after all.
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In same interview with Katz, Braun did mention he’d likely have to reach across aisle to work with democrats for some health care legislation, that’d he face head wind with his own party- who knows?
 
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