They are a fringe group with extremist views and people are writing them off. And now people who sympathize with them have been put in charge of the republican presidential campaign. Maybe they'll amount to nothing. Hopefully they'll amount to nothing. There are good people in the republican party and they shouldn't ignore or write off this group. How does that quote go? Something about all evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Something like that. I'm too lazy to look it up.
The alt-right
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
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They are a fringe group with extremist views and people are writing them off. And now people who sympathize with them have been put in charge of the republican presidential campaign. Maybe they'll amount to nothing. Hopefully they'll amount to nothing. There are good people in the republican party and they shouldn't ignore or write off this group. How does that quote go? Something about all evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Something like that. I'm too lazy to look it up.
If people like this are in Trump's organization then I hoped they're thrown out. I also hope any in Clinton's organization that support wrapping cops in bacon and frying them will be outed.
I haven't heard anyone suggest that. When someone says that and Hillary hires them as her campaign CEO, we'll talk.
I agree about the danger of racial politics
We are starting to define political parties by skin color, not by issues and ideas. When people say the GOP is in trouble because the whites are losing population share, my skin begins to crawl. When the Vive President of the United States tells a black audience that the GOP wants to put "ya'll back in chains" and he isn't criticized for that, that is a clear sign of trouble. Day's blog post, for what it is worth, is the result of racial politics as now existing, not a sign of something new.
You're ignoring the data behind the average Trump voter, if that's what you think. The disillusionment is part of it, but only a part. Someone posted charts a few weeks ago about that.
Then you agree with a point I never made, because we are not even remotely talking about the same thing.
They don't have to win for this to be a troubling development. In a sane world, both political parties would vehemently reject the alt-right. We don't appear to live in a sane world.
Your inexplicable concern for the health and well-being of the conservative movement aside, its the association that troubles you, correct? This I find ironic due to the rigor the left showed in deflecting Obama's nefarious associations, including the Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Van Jones; a racist, a terrorist and a communist.
Obama's associations mean nothing, but Trump's prove he's aligning with racists who are taking over my party before my very eyes? That's far-fetched scare porn. It didn't stick when the right tried it in 2008, but don't let that stop you.
Political appeals to skin color
Is not good. We agree and that is your point with how you chose to highlight pieces and parts of Day's blog post. We are talking about the same thing.
Did Obama hire Bill Ayers or Jeremiah Wright to run his campaign? I missed that one. I didn't even see that in that D'Souza "documentary". Please post the link when you find that story.
So it only matters if you hire them? I would think that having these people as mentors would get more to the core of who you are as opposed to hiring a media guy to help with a campaign.
Maybe you guys are right and a growing number of white people are starting to notice that there is an NAACP and a NCLR and CAIR and any other number of different groups that rent seek the government based on particular sets of grievances that they have. Furthermore, I would say that one party in particular goes out of their way to run out the "evil white man" screed every 2 years in order to gin up votes. Seeing that A) there is absolutely power to be gained in racial politics and B) all of those other groups see you as the enemy and cannot wait until you "die out" or they out number you so that they can......(that part generally is not touched on, what is the end game when white people are the minority?) I do not find it all that amazing that some white people are starting to take on the characteristics of minority groups that have successfully used race as a political motivator.
I agree that this is not right. But I also believe it is not right when minority groups do the same exact thing. We should avoid this racial balkanization in all groups, not just when "angry white men" do it.
So what are the optics of Al Sharpton a tax cheat and racist being President Obama's "go to black leader"? He seems to have unfettered access to the White House? Does that make the President a tax cheat and racist?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton
Edited to add Al Sharpton Wikipedia.
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You guys sure love agreeing with things we don't say.
Let me help you all out:
Ethno-nationalism is bad. Full stop.
It may or may not be desirable for political parties to make their case to specific communities ("we will do X for the black community," etc.), and if that's what you want to argue about, have fun with that. But start your own thread to do it.
Because this thread isn't about racial appeals in politics. It's about a group of white nationalists who believe in setting up a strong, authoritarian, white ethno-state, and have existed in the fringes of our political discourse for a few years, but have now inexplicably begun to seep into the mainstream. One of the two major political candidates made an overture to them by putting their press secretary in charge of his campaign. I am completely astonished that so many of you are so happy to look the other way on this.
I find it fascinating that you and Crazy equate the alt-right, which explicitly states that it is anti-equalitarian and openly advocates for white preeminence in the U.S., with a group like the NAACP, which states that its mission is "to ensure a society in which all individuals have equal rights without discrimination based on race". I get that you don't find the alt-right to be a big threat to the GOP, but I find the desperate false equivalence distasteful.
And which of those did he hire to run his campaign? Are people purposely missing the point? After 4 pages, it would appear so.
For gods' sake stoll, Shaprton isn't Goebbels. These alt-righties are walking around with 1488 tattoos and writing essays about the need to protect white women from the sexual advances of black men. When Ben Shapiro announced the birth of his second kid, Milo (a guy with some defenders on this very forum) tweeted him a racist fake congratulations, a picture of a black newborn with the caption "Prayers for Ben, whose new daughter came out half black." And that was polite compared to Milo's followers, who spammed Shapiro with things like "I hope all 4 of you get sent to the ovens!"
These are the kinds of people Trump is making a pass at by bringing Bannon in. They aren't just trolls. They are genuine honest-to-god Nazis.
I don't agree with any part of the Alt-right you've described. The republicans I know want no part of what you attribute to the Alt-right. I can't imagine that Trump even knows who the Alt-right is. If this guy really is a leader of the group he should be fired.
They should be fired. Why isn't press talking about it? Do they even understand?
Sharpton is the worst of the worst. He's a hustler who doesn't give a damn about African Americans. He only cares about $$$. He shouldn't be allowed in the White House.
Your opinions on Sharpton are irrelevant. Two wrongs don't make a right. Especially when the math is something like, "well, I may be a serial killer, but you were double parked that one time, so you have no room to talk!"
That's your opinion. I think Sharpton is just as bad and you should be as outraged about him.
Sharpton is just as bad? That's objectively ridiculous. I know it's fun to exaggerate on the internet and compare people to Nazis, but in this case it's not a game. You are actually claiming Sharpton is just as bad as bona fide Nazis.
I didn't feel the need to reply. They simply don't get it. And it's the typical non-response response. "Well you can't be outraged about Trump hiring an alt-right sympathizer because you aren't outraged about Hillary or Obama hypothetically hiring someone who wants to wrap cops in bacon"... or whatever.
Van Jones (communist) worked in the Obama White House and Bill Ayers (terrorist) ghost wrote parts of Obama's autobiography. Which goes to show that taking advantage of certain aspects of the skill set of unsavory characters is just fine as long as it's for the good of the political left. I dont recall any dems wringing their hands about what that "said" about them.
I've tried to research the Alt-right movement. I didn't know it existed until this thread. What I've read is repugnant. I agree a person with those beliefs shouldn't have any part in Trump's campaign. What I've read it appears that they aren't some organized group that you can point to real leaders.
I will continue to believe there should be as much outrage for a group who has members advocating killing cops and whites.
The Van Jones who is listed as member of the Democratic Party? He's also an attorney and involved in several advocacy groups that work with children, communities, and provide scholarships. If that's communism, sign me up.
Bill Ayers? I've seen where he makes the claim, but also that he was pulling republican chains with those comments. I've read independent studies that determine the writing styles are completely different. By all accounts Ayers had changed his life around by the time he and Obama worked on a board together in 1999. Plus Obama was, like, 7 when Ayers was actually a member of the underground.
Sorry, was talking about BLM. Sharpton does believe in making up stories that cops and prosecutors rape young black girls and cover them in feces. Quite a guy to be able to walk in and out of the White House. And yes I believe he's just as bad as the White Racists in the Alt-right movement.
Not exactly a special or brave stance, but commendable.
Gosh, I don't want cops killed either.
Raise your hand if you don't want cops killed. Or if you believe all children should eat.
So, you equate what Van Jones advocates for politically with what the alt-right advocates politically?
It is the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. That is a group that, despite whatever reason it was initially set b up, is focused on rent seeking from the government for (mostly) Americans of African descent. I think the organization does some good but it is invariably a racist organization as it seeks to push minorities forward by promoting policies (such as Affirmative Action) that are used to set race up as the determining factor in school acceptance and jobs.
There may be good reasons for this from their perspective but separating things by race creates an us vs them relationship. I do not find it shocking that some of the people on the "them" category are taking a look at how things work right now and are deciding that there is something to be gained by setting up their own racial voting block to rent seek the government.
My point is that there seems to exist a double standard in this country where minority groups get to form and push for race based initiatives and that is good. White people do it and it is not good. I think it would be better if we said that all of this is not good because it only causes division. I think the rise of the alt-right right (small as I think it actually is) can be attributed to this racial us vs. them that exists. These guys have zero traction if we do try a more egalitarian and less race based approach because I think most of their support comes from "angry white guys" who are tired of the (I think ver real, you may see as perceived) double standard.
Either way, I think this is all to do about not much at all. This is not the rise of some new neo nazi GOP. On current trajectory, I do not see a real danger of that until such point where white people are no longer the majority. Should the current racial programs exist after that point, then I think this type of movement gains real traction.
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Seriously...Al Sharpton is a dick. And I'd have no problem if Presidents stopped associating with him. But, again, it seems like a really big stretch to equate Al Sharpton with the advocacy of the alt-right and Al Sharpton isn't Hilary's campaign CEO.
Crazy, you completely mistake the avowed goals of both groups. I totally get you disagreeing with some of the political activities of the NAACP. I totally can't understand how you equate the groups in question. The alt-right's goal isn't to rent seek the government.
No, just trying to change the subject while completely trying to avoid the issue of an extremist group sympathizer who's actually been hired to a position of prominence in a presidential campaign. And because the Bill Ayers from 1969 could have been brought to the future and hired to run the Obama campaign, but wasn't, we should be equally outraged at that hypothetical scenario.
Enh, I am dropping out of this convo. My main point is that we are all Americans no matter where our ancestors came from. I wish we would focus on that more than on what ethnic background deserves this or that based on what color they are or what grievances they may have about past treatment (both real and perceived).
Dropping out because even though I think there is a discussion to be had, I do not want to look like I am supporting any kind of white nationalist movement. They are dip shits. This country is stronger because of all the different experiences we bring. Wish we could focus on that.
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