If the ad somehow affects someone (who needs it) in a positive way, great. It has no relevance to me so no one should reflect it upon me in any way shape or form. As for selling razors, they are a commodity and price wins.
So have you seen the Gillette ad
- Thread starter zeke4ahs
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If the ad somehow affects someone (who needs it) in a positive way, great. It has no relevance to me so no one should reflect it upon me in any way shape or form. As for selling razors, they are a commodity and price wins.
We didn't allow guns as toys when the kids were young. They eventually used bananas as pistols.
No, that's a reductive view of what IUCrazy is saying.
Forget using the -isms to try and label this because it puts people on the defensive. Just label it as prejudice. Pre-judgments are being made about what it means to be black, white, male, female, etc. and while all of these new ways of viewing these demographics are getting a big hurrah, there is also a perceived prejudice against what people used to say was the default. You can think that saying the "default" was a wrong way to look at the world without being so hostile to those who, no fault of their own, happen to be what was once considered the default.
In other words there are two ways to approach this topic. One way lifts people up so we are all on the same level and the other way pulls us all down so that we are on the same level. To me, this ad was more of a pull down than a pull up. And you can do both of those things while still pushing what is, on its face, a message that most everyone agrees with (don't be a dick).
I also think that we have far to many white people who hinder our ability to move forward by acting as the gatekeepers for what black and white people can talk about. Black people for sure have their grievances but I think there are things that white people feel coming in the other direction to. Your whole "racesplaining" bit is something that you have no right to throw out. You are white. Bing is open to talk and other minorities are as well. Sometimes feelings get hurt in these conversations, just like in family. Tough discussions are not easy. But you know what makes them worse? That person in the family who allows them to fester by always heading off the two family members who need to hash it out.
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What is racsplaining? Is this similar to mansplaining? mansplaining is the label used for convenience when a man discuses anything a woman disagrees with.
Good to know. Your post claiming I am offended suggests that your trigger point is very low.
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You are reading too much into the objections to this ad. There is nothing "wrong with having the discussion." There is no denying that there is plenty of room for improvement in males.
My objection has to do with setting the emotional stage for the message through disrespect and stigmatizing a discrete group of people. This persuasive technique has a time and a place, but not everywhere and not here. This approach to making any point is ubiquitous. It has effectively destroyed politics in America. I don't think you would deny as a society we are more uncivil than ever before. Ads like this and this approach to making a worthwhile point is a large part of the reason.
As I posted above with the Coke ad, we can do better. But it is more fun to do worse. That's a problem. So many people defending this idea of having a "discussion" shows our incivility is here to stay.
His post is similar to the way the media gets all hyped up about one white (or black or brown or yellow) girl (or boy) getting kidnapped and raped, when there are a gazillion other cases that get ignored. In the case of this ad, Crazy conveniently ignores the countless times an ad has only whites and no one says a thing. That's the 99.99% I'm talking about. Sure, I get his point, if you substituted a non-white male or female there might be a different reaction, but that's always the case with giving any minority of any nature some exposure. It stands out. Same with Christians in Muslim countries or whites in predominantly black countries. Maybe this ad uses whites intentionally as a message to whites who happen to predominate as a race in the US. Big deal. Crazy's butthurt and he still hasn't explained why. Instead he denies he is. Then he proves he is again.
There are a gazillion ways to approach this topic. Each way might or might not reach a given person. Each way might or might not have any effect. Each way might or might not generate interest and discussion.
The goal is to advance society forward to whatever degree. Getting assholes to stop being assholes is hard. It usually requires a whole lot of pressure. This ad uses pressure. You don't like that. Hm...
Butthurt is such a stupid word. We discuss stuff on this forum that really has no impact on our day to day. You know how often I have talked about this ad to anyone off this forum? Zero times.
Let's frame it this way. How would your preferred "way" get Trump to stop being a bully?And I am the one accused of racesplaining....
Frame #2: Please explain how your preferred way would convince Trump voters like you to not vote for a unmitigated bully who claims women want him to grab them by the pussy?
Frame #3: Please explain how your preferred way would convince the 88% of conservatives who currently support the Bully-in-Chief to demand he stop bullying and denigrating people?
Frame #4: Please explain how your preferred way would convince the 75% of Evangelicals to demand that the Bully-n-Chief stop bullying and denigrating people?
The floor is yours.
Why should we not stigmatize bad parents?
Break. When did this ad become about Trump or Trump supporters?
When some recognized similarities.
I grew up on a farm but there wasn't anything on "Hee Haw" that caused me to get worked up because none of it was similar.
The ad's about bullying. Trump is a prime example, in fact, the prime example. This isn't hard to understand, Aloha. The debate in part is about whether the ad is effective. Crazy says there are two ways to do that, so I asked how his preferred way would achieve beneficial effects related to bullying, using Trump and his supporters as an example since Crazy voted for Trump, he's conservative, and Christian. That's Crazy's wheelhouse.
It wasn’t about Trump or Trump supporters. This is why conversations generally go south and become worthless here. No one can focus.
Parents? I didn’t notice any bad mother’s in the ad.
As I said, there is a time and place for scolding. There is a time and place for parenting classes and lectures.
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So the advertisement that you all have spent the thread indicating was not about specific people was actually aimed at specific people? And those specific people who noticed that and got all "butthurt" about this not exactly being a lesson for us all but a lesson directed at certain "deplorable" subset were actually right? Is that what you are arguing? It is just Trump voting white males that need this toxic masculinity education? CoH already posted a coke ad that delivers a similar message and they managed to avoid a problem. Why is that?
And see, that is why people view these things with a side eye. Because at the end of the day they believe that the people making them is someone like you. This message is not intended for you, you are enlightened. I on the other hand, because of my politics need your enlightened ass to tell me how to be a man and a parent. Am I right?
(And this is more a response to you asking how I would frame this conversation for deplorable people like me.)
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You really shouldn't confuse lurker's philosophy with the intent or impact of the ad itself.
That is completely fair. However, I think there is a distrust around things like this because of who it is perceived to be coming from. If you are someone who is generally a little distrusting of where this message is really coming from, it is because of interactions that have occurred with people like iuwc here.
The media mostly gets hyped up about white kids being kidnapped or raped and ignore the black kids that get kidnapped or raped.
But you should have just responded to Crazy's post with some of this instead of just responding with "racesplaining" but you should leave out the butthurt thing because that just kills the discussion every time. I think Crazy is one of the reasonable conservatives. I don't agree with him on a lot of the time but he is explaining his positions. This place only exists to discuss differences in opinion. Right? Place wouldn't be worth two sh*ts if we all agreed with each other. That already happens in a lot of threads and they aren't worth two sh*ts. That includes the posts where Democrats all agree with each other. Might be fun for us but it isn't much of a discussion.
Conversations go nowhere when people can't face reality. Trump is the Bully-in-Chief. Are you disputing that or pumping hot air into your balloon?
I'm fine with Crazy explaining his opinions, which I agree, he mostly does. I'm also fine with me calling him out when he injects bullshit into his opinions, such as false equivalences, false "facts," and other treats of sophistry. When he whines about getting called out on it, I'm fine calling him butthurt. It's a descriptor. Can't help it if he gets butthurt about the descriptor.The media mostly gets hyped up about white kids being kidnapped or raped and ignore the black kids that get kidnapped or raped.
But you should have just responded to Crazy's post with some of this instead of just responding with "racesplaining" but you should leave out the butthurt thing because that just kills the discussion every time. I think Crazy is one of the reasonable conservatives. I don't agree with him on a lot of the time but he is explaining his positions. This place only exists to discuss differences in opinion. Right? Place wouldn't be worth two sh*ts if we all agreed with each other. That already happens in a lot of threads and they aren't worth two sh*ts. That includes the posts where Democrats all agree with each other. Might be fun for us but it isn't much of a discussion.
Here's a clear example of Crazy's sophistic bullshit:
Of course the ad is not necessarily directed at specific people and of course Trump is also an example of the bullying portrayed in the ad. It's called 1) a principle and 2) an example of the principle. Of course, Crazy knows this but he decided to play a bullshit, disingenuous game with that sentence. Get it? See why I call him out on it? It's not personal. I'm saying his bullshit is bullshit. I'm not saying he's bullshit.
He has a choice of admitting he created some bullshit or of pretending I'm attacking him (rather than his bullshit) and getting butthurt about it. I can't help it if he pretends I'm attacking him.
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Roger that. Good luck with keeping a constructive conversation going and worth something.
Trump is a bully, but that wasn’t what the ad or thread was about - you just suddenly went there. Seems very weird for you to do that in response to the post you responded to. Carry on - I was just reading along and I think I’ll go back to that.
So we should ignore bad dads? If we talk about sexual abuse, is it ok to mention Catholic Priests without doing a full analysis of every religion?
But I will start here, moms parent more. So maybe dads should be more involved?
I couldn't care less about worthless conversation, unless the point is to have fun. If Crazy or anyone else has a genuine interest in a constructive dialogue, then thickness of skin won't be a factor. I've tried to engage people innumerable times. The main problem is that ideologues just want to spout their ideology. You're not one of them. Your posts are a refreshing change of pace.
The ad is about bullying. Trump is always a relevant example in that context. I don't get what you're missing. If I'm talking about Navy commanders in general and I suddenly talk about you as an example, is that also weird?
You started talking about something he wasn't talking about and somehow positing that the ad somehow is a step to solving Trump's bullying. That was weird.
I have no idea if it would be weird if you were talking about Navy commanders and then started talking about me. If you did it the same way - yes, it would be weird.
I appreciate your and Bing's intent to bring civility and common sense to the board.
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What’s it like spending your whole day finding ways to be offended?
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