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Russia-Ukraine war has begun

On a related note, based on how PMQs went down today, this may be just what BoJo needs to stay afloat. I know a lot of people would say the UK doesn't matter, that the core of NATO is the US-German relationship. But I think a steady British government still has value.
 
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They are taking a hit, just not the one most people think. Most of the Nordstream 2 gas was never destined for the German market, which gets plenty of gas from Nordstream 1. Most of the Nordstream 2 gas was headed for Southern Europe. What Germany is really giving up is whatever slice of the profits they stood to earn by being the middleman.

That said, it's worth noting that in this case, it really is as simple as flipping a switch. The pipeline is finished and already filled with gas. It can be turned on at a moment's notice if Germany changes its mind.
Gas is fungible and both supplies use a common EU distribution system.
 
Gas is fungible and both supplies use a common EU distribution system.
Yes. Germany's interest is in doubling the size of the share of gas passing through, potentially taking market share from Ukraine and Poland. But they are all connected, and if Russia shut off their gas entirely, Europe could simply use other supplies for a while. German analysts today announced that they (Europe) could get through the rest of winter on reserves alone if they had to.
 
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Rumors are just rumors, but worth noting this The Guardian just shared:



It's currently 1:00 AM in Kyiv.
I don't understand the mentality of the Ukrainian leadership. I am reading almost nothing about their preparation. Only today they called for reservists? This is the time to call for immediate conscription of all men 16-60 with threat of arrest.
 
I don't understand the mentality of the Ukrainian leadership. I am reading almost nothing about their preparation. Only today they called for reservists? This is the time to call for immediate conscription of all men 16-60 with threat of arrest.
Not if your plan is an insurgency.

There is no point in pulling together any type of standing military force, it will just get rolled over. You fight delaying actions and give up ground. Have units lay low while the Russian heavy forces move past. They then hit the supply lines and melt into the citizenry. Cross the Dnieper, blow the bridges, and settle in for a long and drawn out conflict with NATO weapons pouring in from the West.

That is the only chance they have. They cannot win the field in the initial push. They have to make Russian mothers receive their dead sons for the next several years in protracted low intensity guerilla warfare. That is their only chance.
 
Not if your plan is an insurgency.

There is no point in pulling together any type of standing military force, it will just get rolled over. You fight delaying actions and give up ground. Have units lay low while the Russian heavy forces move past. They then hit the supply lines and melt into the citizenry. Cross the Dnieper, blow the bridges, and settle in for a long and drawn out conflict with NATO weapons pouring in from the West.

That is the only chance they have. They cannot win the field in the initial push. They have to make Russian mothers receive their dead sons for the next several years in protracted low intensity guerilla warfare. That is their only chance.
It's a shame that Ukraine is so flat.
 
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It's a shame that Ukraine is so flat.
Western region around Romania is more mountainous (Carpathians) but the east is pretty flat. That is part of the reason the Russians are so worried about that area. NATO forces would be able to drive deep into Russia fairly quickly with Ukraine as a jumping off point.
 
Lots of unconfirmed reports from supposed locals on social media that the Russians have started shelling around Mariupol.

Edit: Ukraine has completely shut down its airspace to civilian aircraft. It had previously shut down specific airports near Russia.
 
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Well here we go. Got to see the Berlin Wall come down as a child and now I am going to get to see an iron curtain metaphorically erected again.

Russia and China are a real existential threat to the West. We need to get our shit together collectively because those 2 are bad news.
 
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Really sad.
Putin declared his intention to "demilitarize" and "de-Nazify" Ukraine. I'm not sure what "de-Nazify" is code for. Is it a claim that the Ukrainian government are Fascists? Or is it that they are under the thumb of Europe? Or is it just a generic dig at anything seen as anti-Russian?

Edit: CNN also reporting explosions in Kharkiv. Looks like a full-scale attack. Reuters confirming sound of artillery near Kyiv.
 
Putin declared his intention to "demilitarize" and "de-Nazify" Ukraine. I'm not sure what "de-Nazify" is code for. Is it a claim that the Ukrainian government are Fascists? Or is it that they are under the thumb of Europe? Or is it just a generic dig at anything seen as anti-Russian?

Edit: CNN also reporting explosions in Kharkiv. Looks like a full-scale attack. Reuters confirming sound of artillery near Kyiv.
Age old bromine about Ukraine because they welcomed the Germans into the country during WWII, which some did due to Stalin's genocide of its people. Putin is not going to let that little detail stand in his way. He's a true sociopath.
 
Putin declared his intention to "demilitarize" and "de-Nazify" Ukraine. I'm not sure what "de-Nazify" is code for. Is it a claim that the Ukrainian government are Fascists? Or is it that they are under the thumb of Europe? Or is it just a generic dig at anything seen as anti-Russian?

Edit: CNN also reporting explosions in Kharkiv. Looks like a full-scale attack. Reuters confirming sound of artillery near Kyiv.
He also basically threatened nuclear retaliation if other countries get involved.
 
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Apparently Putin stated that any countries that may be tempted to intervene will face immediate consequences the likes of which they've never seen. 🤔

Seems like a nuclear threat...
He's off the rails.
 
Apparently Putin stated that any countries that may be tempted to intervene will face immediate consequences the likes of which they've never seen. 🤔

Seems like a nuclear threat...
He's off the rails.
Ah, I did hear that. I took it as generic "stay out of our business" bluster. I hope it's not a nuclear threat.
 
I didn't hear that part, but it definitely scans. Dude is in full-on chest-thumping mode right now.
"Putin warned other countries that any attempt to interfere with the Russian action would lead to 'consequences they have never seen.'"

I took that as the nuclear threat.
 
Technically speaking, these aren't war crimes. A war of aggression can be considered a "crime against peace," thanks to WW2, but that kind of crime only matters if you have a guy in a cell.
Charge him with whatever Terminology you wanna call it, I think it matters. And it should happen immediately. And that should be a big international declaration. It will color The international opprobrium extreme.
 
Charge him with whatever Terminology you wanna call it, I think it matters. And it should happen immediately. And that should be a big international declaration. It will color The international opprobrium extreme.
Can't be flippant about these things. It's not something you do as a reaction. You gather evidence, you make a case, you make a charge. International law, to this day, is very tenuous.
 
Can't be flippant about these things. It's not something you do as a reaction. You gather evidence, you make a case, you make a charge. International law, to this day, is very tenuous.
Well I’m certainly not suggesting being flippant. I think it’s clear that Putin unilaterally sent his military across the border. He even admitted as much on Russian TV. There’s plenty of evidence there that this is an unprovoked invasion. And people are going to die. It should be done properly as you say and it should be done post haste.
 
Well I’m certainly not suggesting being flippant. I think it’s clear that Putin unilaterally sent his military across the border. He even admitted as much on Russian TV. There’s plenty of evidence there that this is an unprovoked invasion. And people are going to die. It should be done properly as you say and it should be done post haste.
I agree with that. I'm just saying do it with proper procedure. Don't just get in front of a TV camera and say it.
 
Ukrainian Ambassador to the UN basically asking for Russia to be expelled from the UNSC, if not the UN.
If I understood correctly the Russian representative countered that they hadn’t executed a war but some sort of special procedure or whatever. My response would be in that case you have no problem with the UN or the United States sending military planes to protect Kiev, right?

Call their lying ****ing Bluffs.
 
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I thought our meetings with Putin, Lavrov, et al were ridiculous as well. We looked pathetic as they basically spit at us. I'm all in favor of diplomacy, but it takes two to tango.
At least we're on record for trying. I don't think anyone beyond maybe some Russians will be confused on who is wrong.
EDIT: And some really stupid Americans.
 
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