Reality.

Paterfamilias

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Syracuse coach has two NC’s since your last one, but they waited 23 years to win his first one! You would never keep a coach that long which was the period between your 1953 and 1976 championships. In the last 36 years Villanova has three NC’s and you have one. They have won as many as RMk won with two different coaches. It took Jay Wright 15 years to win a title. How many coaches have you had the last 15 years?
Syracuse wasn't a hoops power when Boeheim took the job. They were an independent which had rose to some prominence under Coach Danforth (a Hoosier) in the early 70's. Danforth, who had went to college in the south, was offered the head coaching job at Tulane and he jumped at it. Tulane was joining the newly founded metro conference and Danforth thought there was higher upside in a conference.

Boeheim took the job and the rest is history. Point being, Syracuse people were delighted to just be relevant in hoops... kinda like Purdue fans hope for. Anyway, Boeheim's longevity had nothing to do with patience from the fanbase. The next guy there won't have it so easy.
 

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
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See the bolded. Miller's teams actually regressed.

Yes, that progress is expected. If all you do is tread water or backslide after 4 years, you've not proven you're going to be able to perform at the level IU demands.
Archie's record did regress this year. But it had improved each year before that. As I said in a later post, there will be ups and downs, as Painter and other coaches have experienced. And I do think Archie made some recruiting mistakes. But he is young and he will learn from those. Unfortunately for IU, somewhere else.

When you hire a young coach for a losing program, progress is not asymptotic, or even a straight line. If you expect different, you're naive.
 

Sobchak_Security

Benchwarmer
Jan 4, 2020
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How extraordinarily naive.

No one said you should accept mediocrity. But the world is not a static place. You don't hire a coach one day, and be in the Final Four the next - and stay there forevermore! That's fantasy land.

Damon Bailey and Rick Mount were not instant top shooters when they hopped out of the crib. It took years of practice and lots of misses.

There is no such thing as "Top Program Instant Mix - just add coach!"

Wake up, smell the coffee!
You are running with the national media narrative. At what point has the IU fan base ever demanded a coach be “hired one day and in the Final Four the next”? Archie never made the NCAA tournament. Period. His finish in conference play got worse. Look at it from a business perspective, no smart business man would keep an employee being paid in the top 20% of his field that not only showed no progress, but got worse over that 4 year period. It just doesn’t happen. Hell, Shaka Smart saw the writing on the wall at Texas and got out and he made the tournament this year.
 

Coach Geez

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Dec 23, 2019
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Archie's record did regress this year. But it had improved each year before that. As I said in a later post, there will be ups and downs, as Painter and other coaches have experienced. And I do think Archie made some recruiting mistakes. But he is young and he will learn from those. Unfortunately for IU, somewhere else.

When you hire a young coach for a losing program, progress is not asymptotic, or even a straight line. If you expect different, you're naive.

A losing program? Archie was hired a year removed from an outright IU B10 title, their second in 4 years. Please stop posting dumb shit on this board and get back to your Popular Mechanics.
 

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
63
13
Same incorrect, sorry ass narrative pushed by the sorry ass drive-by media. We get it: PU has no standards and will give anybody a lifetime job. Archie was no closer today to getting things figured out than he was on day 1.
I always enjoy your simplistic, 3rd grade emotional responses. My grandson tells me he has an unpopular kid in his class just like you. If you lived in Arizona, I would swear that kid is your spawn. lol
 

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
63
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A losing program? Archie was hired a year removed from an outright IU B10 title, their second in 4 years. Please stop posting dumb shit on this board and get back to your Popular Mechanics.
Okay, I was rough! lol So sue me.

But listening to all of you around here, a .559 winning percentage over the 9 CTC years, obviously was not what you all would consider a winning program, n'est-ce pas?
 

IU Hoops Fan

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Aug 28, 2001
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Archie's record did regress this year. But it had improved each year before that. As I said in a later post, there will be ups and downs, as Painter and other coaches have experienced. And I do think Archie made some recruiting mistakes. But he is young and he will learn from those. Unfortunately for IU, somewhere else.

When you hire a young coach for a losing program, progress is not asymptotic, or even a straight line. If you expect different, you're naive.
Thinking that Miller deserved another year is the type of thinking that has gotten us to be a mediocre program.

When Miller was hired, if IU had said that IU wouldn’t be in the tourney uNeil year 5 (and there’s no evidence that IU would be better next year), most fans would have said...WTH?

IU needs to up its expectations.
 
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HoosierJimbo89

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I always enjoy your simplistic, 3rd grade emotional responses. My grandson tells me he has an unpopular kid in his class just like you. If you lived in Arizona, I would swear that kid is your spawn. lol
I don't think you want to compare intelligence levels with me, and attacking me is the least intelligent response you could make. Your post is the same garbage the national media puts out, and it's also a rationalization for keeping Painter around for 16 years without any consistent track record of national success. You worry about you, buddy, and you need to up your posting game if you want to engage in an intelligent conversation.

How long did Hazell last at PU? Purdue football is light years away from being in the same league as IU basketball, and he lasted the same amount of time as Archie. Give me a break.
 

PrintersRowBoiler

Sophomore
Jan 10, 2007
786
24
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I agree with you on everything but recruiting. AM even out recruited painter. If you assume last year IU would've made the NCAA tournament, IU and AM took a step back this year. I think all ADs want to see is improvement and a solid NCAA tournament team by year 4. Not having an offense to speak of for 4 years isn't a solid team. I think most coaches would be comfortable with that.
Delusional. AM did not outrecruit painter. 2021 painter got top two recruits in Indiana, their top two and only choices and both better than the 1 recruit AM had and he came up short on many offers. In 2020 painter got his top two choices (Ivey and Morton) to go along with Zach Edey who was on all freshmen team with Ivey. AM got Leal and Lander... rankings aren’t everything. Galloway was painters third choice guard and he pulled offer after he got Morton and Ivey, it was widely reported he wanted purdue, there was even a post by I think his mom where she put his Purdue swag at the curb. AM had early success with TJD and Langford but there was a reason painter didn’t recruit those guys hard, rankings aren’t everything.
 

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
63
13
Crean’s resume would fly at Purdue. Not at Indiana.
Indeed, and it flew for CMP in the early years. But the difference is that our administration and (most) of our fan base had a longer term vision, and could clearly see Painter would ultimately succeed.

Sometimes it doesn't pay to throw the baby out with the bath water.
 

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
63
13
I don't think you want to compare intelligence levels with me, and attacking me is the least intelligent response you could make. Your post is the same garbage the national media puts out, and it's also a rationalization for keeping Painter around for 16 years without any consistent track record of national success. You worry about you, buddy, and you need to up your posting game if you want to engage in an intelligent conversation.
Matching wits with you would be like arguing with a pet rock. I'll leave it to your considerable intellect, and the colors of your mood ring to interpret that. Have a nice day!
 
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Coach Geez

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Dec 23, 2019
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Indeed, and it flew for CMP in the early years. But the difference is that our administration and (most) of our fan base had a longer term vision, and could clearly see Painter would ultimately succeed.

Sometimes it doesn't pay to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Your long term vision is enjoying the same 40 year status quo that hasn’t moved the needle an inch in terms of Purdue’s status on the national scene. Congratulations.
 

IU Hoops Fan

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Aug 28, 2001
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Indeed, and it flew for CMP in the early years. But the difference is that our administration and (most) of our fan base had a longer term vision, and could clearly see Painter would ultimately succeed.

Sometimes it doesn't pay to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Yes, Painter is a great coach for Purdue. Solid program. A “B” level program. And that’s fine for Purdue because, well, you’re Purdue. Nothing wrong with that. That way, you don’t have to worry about where to put banners.
 

Fpeaugh2

Redshirt
Mar 16, 2021
121
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It’s becoming a myth that we’re being turned down by everyone. We’ve targeted a select number of candidates who are the best in the world. Most already at good gigs.

Thad wanted the job and he was Dolson’s guy. That’s what set this back. We haven’t gone after any up and comers yet who are drooling over the job.
 

OhioBoiler51

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May 7, 2015
534
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I don't think you want to compare intelligence levels with me, and attacking me is the least intelligent response you could make.

tenor.gif
 
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Paterfamilias

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Okay, I was rough! lol So sue me.

But listening to all of you around here, a .559 winning percentage over the 9 CTC years, obviously was not what you all would consider a winning program, n'est-ce pas?
From my own perspective, I totally get the media ripping IU fans for Crean. This is what I don't like about people just depending on records/win% and the like in coach evaluation. Crean is a survivor, if IU didn't fire him when they did he may have had more "good" teams... the kind that keep you employed.

The problem was that IU fans could see his ceiling crystal clear and it's a great ceiling for Marquette and Georgia, but not here. He's just not a great coach or even really good coach. Reminds me of what Illinois fans used to say about Lou Henson "He's just good enough that we can't get rid of him"
 

HoosierJimbo89

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Nov 27, 2010
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Matching wits with you would be like arguing with pet rock. I'll leave it to your considerable intellect, and the colors of your mood ring to interpret that. Have a nice day!
Do you think PU should have kept Hazell? No need to answer, as it shows how silly your post is.

You can keep Matt around for 50 years if you want to: maybe you'll see something different, lol. Talk about the definition of insanity!
 

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
63
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Your long term vision is enjoying the same 40 year status quo that hasn’t moved the needle an inch in terms of Purdue’s status on the national scene. Congratulations.
Well, considering Painter, during his tenure, has become so well respected for developing players and appearing in more ncaa tournaments, and keeping Purdue as the winningest program in B1G history that his assistants have been getting Div 1 jobs, I'll take that "status quo." And considering Purdue was a lucky last second shot from making the Final Four two years ago, I'll take that, too.

Not sure I would trade that for all of what IU has had during the same time frame.
 
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IU Hoops Fan

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Well, considering Painter, during his tenure, has become so well respected for developing players and appearing in more ncaa tournaments, and keeping Purdue as the winningest program in B1G history that his assistants have been getting Div 1 jobs, I'll take that "status quo." And considering Purdue was a lucky last second shot from making the Final Four two years ago, I'll take that, too.

Not sure I would trade that for all of what IU has had during the same time frame.
Correct, that Purdue’s program has been better than IUs for longer than IU should accept.

But that’s the point. If you get the next decade like the last decade, Purdue fans will be thrilled. Nothing wrong with that at all. For Purdue.
 

PrintersRowBoiler

Sophomore
Jan 10, 2007
786
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75% of your B10 titles came 30 years before your posthumously awarded national title. NOBODY GIVES A SHIT.
Must be IU math. 29% not 75%. Purdue still has more big ten championships than IU in the past 30 years. And a top 10 arena. And an elite 8 appearance under their current coach just a couple years ago, you have to go back 4 coaches and 20 years almost for IU. Both are good programs but to say today IU is grade A and Purdue grade B is delusional.
 

HoosierJimbo89

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Correct, that Purdue’s program has been better than IUs for longer than IU should accept.

But that’s the point. If you get the next decade like the last decade, Purdue fans will be thrilled. Nothing wrong with that at all. For Purdue.
No, IU had Painter-plus with Crean, and Crean was let go. The standards at IU are higher. You really think no FF's in 16 years would fly at IU? Would IU fans really be excited with crapping the bed against the Mean Green this year?
 

IUgradman

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Mar 31, 2009
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When you sign a 7 year contract and fire somebody after a little more than 50%
of the agreed upon term you send a strong signal to future candidates. If you think that throwing money at people is the answer to your future it appears you are learning a painful lesson. Every coach since night has been fired for one reason or another. Everyone except for AM has been hired elsewhere and two of the three have enjoyed success, at some point you have to ask the question, is it the coach, or the culture?

The only coach fired from IU who has had any success is Kelvin Sampson, and he wasn’t let go for on court reasons. Davis was fired from UAB and Crean has stunk at Georgia.
 
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HoosierJimbo89

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Must be IU math. 29% not 75%. Purdue still has more big ten championships than IU in the past 30 years. And a top 10 arena. And an elite 8 appearance under their current coach just a couple years ago, you have to go back 4 coaches and 20 years almost for IU. Both are good programs but to say today IU is grade A and Purdue grade B is delusional.
Delusional is thinking Matt is ever going to do squat at a national level and that one fluke run to the Elite 8 is the norm. Give him 50 years, he may have another fluke run in him. Crapping the bed against the Mean Green in the first round is the norm with Matt.
 

Coach Geez

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Must be IU math. 29% not 75%. Purdue still has more big ten championships than IU in the past 30 years. And a top 10 arena. And an elite 8 appearance under their current coach just a couple years ago, you have to go back 4 coaches and 20 years almost for IU. Both are good programs but to say today IU is grade A and Purdue grade B is delusional.

I was being facetious. It’s actually 55%. 13 of Purdue’s 24 B10 titles came before Purdue was posthumously awarded a national title in 1957 for a season played 25 years prior. My point stands. Nobody gives a shit.
 
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Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
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Do you think PU should have kept Hazell? No need to answer, as it shows how silly your post is.

You can keep Matt around for 50 years if you want to: maybe you'll see something different, lol. Talk about the definition of insanity!
You're funny. You have a penchant for the obvious, don't you?

Hazell won, what 9 games in 4 years? Hmm. Not sure anyone would have disagreed with that decision. That's a .214 winning percentage where his teams never improved more than one year in a row.

Now let's compare that with Archie, who had a winning percentage of .536 over the same 4 year time frame while improving for two years in a row.

Not that football compares to basketball, just in case you had not noticed. But then, for kids like you, winning isn't everything, it's the only thing! Old Vince would have truly appreciated your fanboy reasoning! Go you!
 

IUgradman

All-Big Ten
Mar 31, 2009
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Texas ran Shaka out of town and he had far more success than Archie. Does Texas need a reality check? Give me a break. IU’s standards are not unreasonable. A bunch of schools would have fired Archie if he had produced the same results there.
 

SouthBendJim

Sophomore
Dec 19, 2004
978
610
93
which is why iu needs to hire an IU guy. Hopefully, someone like Alford or Woodson can ride in on a white horse.
The Indiana men's basketball coaching position is not a destination job anymore. 20 years of neglect have left our banners dusty, and our legend all but forgotten. As one poster put it: we are now Penn State.

How do we know that Brad Stevens is THE ANSWER to our basketball woes? He hasn't exactly lit up the NBA since he's been there. A mediocre 322-287 record with the Celtics over eight years, and they are currently on a 5 or 6 game losing streak. Probably won't make the playoffs, and is likely to be fired at season's end. What guarantee do we have that he's the answer?

Beard ain't coming. $$$ don't mean nothing when you're happy in Texas, and you have a good chance to coach your alma mater now that Smart has departed for Marquette.

All the other successful coaches still in the tournament aren't leaving a program they've put a lot of years into to do a rebuild at Indiana. Our name and legacy are longer an advantage for a new coach.

Matta? Bienlein? Please.......that smacks of the ultimate desperation.

The only logical choice for a chance at something more than mediocrity is Mike Woodson. He's mature, an imposing figure, and has the NBA gravitas that recruits like to see (so I'm told). He's coached two different teams to the NBA playoffs, which is more than Stevens has done. You'd be hard pressed to name a player-turned-coach who's been more successful. Bring in Michael Lewis as an assistant and see who suddenly leaves the transfer portal.

Git 'er done Dolson!
 

Coach Geez

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You're funny. You have a penchant for the obvious, don't you?

Hazell won, what 9 games in 4 years? Hmm. Not sure anyone would have disagreed with that decision. That's a .214 winning percentage where his teams never improved more than one year in a row.

Now let's compare that with Archie, who had a winning percentage of .536 over the same 4 year time frame while improving for two years in a row.

Not that football compares to basketball, just in case you had not noticed. But then, for kids like you, winning isn't everything, it's the only thing! Old Vince would have truly appreciated your fanboy reasoning! Go you!

He never made the tournament. Never had a winning record in the B10. Had a losing record in year 4. Any program worth a salt would tell you to kick rocks.
 
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Bob Sienicki

Recruit
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No, IU had Painter-plus with Crean, and Crean was let go. The standards at IU are higher. You really think no FF's in 16 years would fly at IU? Would IU fans really be excited with crapping the bed against the Mean Green this year?
And your "higher standards" have achieved exactly what recently???
 

HoosierJimbo89

All-American
Nov 27, 2010
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You're funny. You have a penchant for the obvious, don't you?

Hazell won, what 9 games in 4 years? Hmm. Not sure anyone would have disagreed with that decision. That's a .214 winning percentage where his teams never improved more than one year in a row.

Now let's compare that with Archie, who had a winning percentage of .536 over the same 4 year time frame while improving for two years in a row.

Not that football compares to basketball, just in case you had not noticed. But then, for kids like you, winning isn't everything, it's the only thing! Old Vince would have truly appreciated your fanboy reasoning! Go you!
You agree Hazell should have been fired, that's all I was looking for. You have destroyed the foundation of your reasoning for this entire thread.

Painter is also no closer to being a consistent winner in the NCAA's: the definition of insanity applies.
 

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
63
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I was being facetious. It’s actually 55%. 13 of Purdue’s 24 B10 titles came before Purdue was posthumously awarded a national title in 1957 for a season played 25 years prior. My point stands. Nobody gives a shit.

Who died??? Actually, the title was retroactively, not posthumously, awarded in 1943 for the 1932 season, by the Helms Foundation. Keep in mind, one of IU's "titles" was because Big Ten champion Purdue declined to go to the ncaa that year because Ward Lambert felt the students should better spend their time studying instead.