Reality.

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
63
13
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.
 

VanPastorMan

Hall of Famer
Mar 21, 2002
15,359
3,146
113
Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.
I could be wrong, but to me this transfer portal could mean our salvation in that transfers would flock to IU if IU gets the right coach. We could actually upgrade the roster.
 

destewart

Sophomore
Jun 5, 2001
813
926
93
I could be wrong, but to me this transfer portal could mean our salvation in that transfers would flock to IU if IU gets the right coach. We could actually upgrade the roster.
Do you really believe a “flock of transfers” will be IU Basketball’s ticket back to respectability?
Every successful program needs to be built on
A strong foundation. Transfers and One and Done players do not create a strong foundation. How many NCAA championships have been won by schools relying on transfers and One and Done players?
 

Paterfamilias

All-Big Ten
Dec 3, 2010
3,323
2,139
113
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.

You've hit on the prevailing narrative in many instances here. Narrative is often quite different from truth. Not going to go point by point because it's useless. Perception is reality even if it's a false reality. Archie Miller must have been a "made man" :)
 

Univee2

Hall of Famer
Aug 7, 2002
13,755
3,812
113
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.

Yep. Let's turn out the lights and shut the doors.

That big, ol' band of horrible, unreasonable IU alumni/fans won't/can't ever be pleased so let's just give up and accept mediocrity. Hell, the U.S. can't compete with China anymore. Let's just accept the inevitable and become a territory of that wonderful Chineses government. We can't compete. We shouldn't expect our leaders to compete. Let's just bow our heads and let someone else do it while we quietly just fade away.

This condescending, weak-kneed bullshit is tiresome.
 

Sobchak_Security

Benchwarmer
Jan 4, 2020
308
370
63
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.
Just make the damn NCAA tournament. Your soliloquy is way too dramatic. Archie would have gotten more time if he’d have shown any....ANY....progress. But he didn’t and the only recruit he had for next year was Duncomb. We need a coach who:

1. Isn’t weird
2. Can play a style that kids want to be part of
3. Can handle leading a power 5 program playing by the rules with kids who go to class.

The college game has changed over time as tons of schools are paying their coaches millions per year. Plus everyone is on TV these days so you don’t have the draw of national exposure. But to act like no one wants to come here because our fan base expectations are unrealistic is absurd. We aren’t paying guys $3+ million dollars to run a YMCA.
 

VanPastorMan

Hall of Famer
Mar 21, 2002
15,359
3,146
113
Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
Do you really believe a “flock of transfers” will be IU Basketball’s ticket back to respectability?
Every successful program needs to be built on
A strong foundation. Transfers and One and Done players do not create a strong foundation. How many NCAA championships have been won by schools relying on transfers and One and Done players?
I'm talking about next year only. I am also talking about upgrade. There are a ton of players out there who are better than the players we have in the portal.
 

Jfats

Junior
Dec 13, 2008
1,618
283
83
I’m not buying the “long rebuild” argument. The returning IU roster (before so many went into portal) is not void of talent. It’s why this past season was so frustrating. If we manage to retain some of our own portal players, with some additions and coaching, we could be good. Only if everyone bolts and we whiff on incoming transfers will this next season resemble Crean’s first season.
 
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Coach Geez

Junior
Dec 23, 2019
1,692
2,105
113
Just make the damn NCAA tournament. Your soliloquy is way too dramatic. Archie would have gotten more time if he’d have shown any....ANY....progress. But he didn’t and the only recruit he had for next year was Duncomb. We need a coach who:

1. Isn’t weird
2. Can play a style that kids want to be part of
3. Can handle leading a power 5 program playing by the rules with kids who go to class.

The college game has changed over time as tons of schools are paying their coaches millions per year. Plus everyone is on TV these days so you don’t have the draw of national exposure. But to act like no one wants to come here because our fan base expectations are unrealistic is absurd. We aren’t paying guys $3+ million dollars to run a YMCA.

He’s a a freakin Purdue fan. What the hell does he know? Reality is that absolutely NO ONE knows what’s going on with the coaching search because the Indiana AD and administration have been so tight lipped. There’s 16 teams still playing, many with applicable coaching candidates, and there’s two weeks left in the season. Purdue fans and their insecurity is showing.
 

Radio Zero

Junior
Dec 9, 2019
1,588
1,076
113
Yoknapatawpha County
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.
Nobody asked you!
 

SoccerSammy

Senior
Sep 7, 2012
2,405
2,849
113
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.
Negative
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.
negative Nancy... are you claiming we weren’t patient enough with Archie??? 4 years and ZERO progress. No improvement at all.
 
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Coach Geez

Junior
Dec 23, 2019
1,692
2,105
113
Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.

Typical jack wagon Purdue talking point. There isn’t a program in America with more “what ifs” and “wait till next year” national titles than the Purdue men’s basketball team. Nobody has ever accused Purdue fans as being smart when it comes to basketball and this takes the cake.
 

destewart

Sophomore
Jun 5, 2001
813
926
93
Negative

negative Nancy... are you claiming we weren’t patient enough with Archie??? 4 years and ZERO progress. No improvement at all.
When you sign a 7 year contract and fire somebody after a little more than 50%
of the agreed upon term you send a strong signal to future candidates. If you think that throwing money at people is the answer to your future it appears you are learning a painful lesson. Every coach since night has been fired for one reason or another. Everyone except for AM has been hired elsewhere and two of the three have enjoyed success, at some point you have to ask the question, is it the coach, or the culture?
 

Sobchak_Security

Benchwarmer
Jan 4, 2020
308
370
63
When you sign a 7 year contract and fire somebody after a little more than 50%
of the agreed upon term you send a strong signal to future candidates. If you think that throwing money at people is the answer to your future it appears you are learning a painful lesson. Every coach since night has been fired for one reason or another. Everyone except for AM has been hired elsewhere and two of the three have enjoyed success, at some point you have to ask the question, is it the coach, or the culture?
So if the results suck you’re supposed to just sit there and take it??
 
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Coach Geez

Junior
Dec 23, 2019
1,692
2,105
113
When you sign a 7 year contract and fire somebody after a little more than 50%
of the agreed upon term you send a strong signal to future candidates. If you think that throwing money at people is the answer to your future it appears you are learning a painful lesson. Every coach since night has been fired for one reason or another. Everyone except for AM has been hired elsewhere and two of the three have enjoyed success, at some point you have to ask the question, is it the coach, or the culture?

If you don’t make the tournament 4 straight years at any P5 job, let alone Indiana, you deserved to be fired. There isn’t a coach in America worth a salt that would say missing the tournament 4 straight years at Indiana is acceptable. Not one, because it isn’t or never will be.
 

destewart

Sophomore
Jun 5, 2001
813
926
93
Typical jack wagon Purdue talking point. There isn’t a program in America with more “what ifs” and “wait till next year” national titles than the Purdue men’s basketball team. Nobody has ever accused Purdue fans as being smart when it comes to basketball and this takes the cake.
Syracuse coach has two NC’s since your last one, but they waited 23 years to win his first one! You would never keep a coach that long which was the period between your 1953 and 1976 championships. In the last 36 years Villanova has three NC’s and you have one. They have won as many as RMk won with two different coaches. It took Jay Wright 15 years to win a title. How many coaches have you had the last 15 years?
 
Last edited:

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
63
13
He’s a a freakin Purdue fan. What the hell does he know? Reality is that absolutely NO ONE knows what’s going on with the coaching search because the Indiana AD and administration have been so tight lipped. There’s 16 teams still playing, many with applicable coaching candidates, and there’s two weeks left in the season. Purdue fans and their insecurity is showing.
Indeed, I'm a "freakin" Purdue fan.

But the point I was making was not how YOU all view the situation, but how other coaches outside of the IU bubble - and who likely personally know Archie more than they do the IU fan base - likely view the situation with your program.

And I am not saying one should "turn out the lights, etc, etc;" just be a little more patient. It might take 2-3 years to become competitive and finish in the top half of the B1G. Maybe not, but Archie at least made progress, clearly not as much as you all would like, but I see the problem as more about your expectations than I do the coach.

Like Archie, Painter made some recruiting mistakes some years ago in trying to get top ranked recruits, and ended up with a dumpster fire and loss of the Purdue culture. He recognized that mistake and changed his recruiting style - and it paid off. Not in the time frame you guys would have been patient with, but he did turn it around. And now, his assistants are getting Power 5 jobs and he is getting the top recruits - who now want to be a part of that culture.

If your ADHD administration - and you all - can commit to 6-7 years, and then be patient with the invariable ups and downs during that time, you will get back to where you want to be. But the days of your program being mentioned in the same breath as UK, KU, UNC, and Duke by coaches and recruits is long gone.

The sooner you all recognize and accept that, the sooner your program will turn around.

What do they say in 12-step programs? Recognizing and accepting the problem is half the solution.
 

destewart

Sophomore
Jun 5, 2001
813
926
93
If you don’t make the tournament 4 straight years at any P5 job, let alone Indiana, you deserved to be fired. There isn’t a coach in America worth a salt that would say missing the tournament 4 straight years at Indiana is acceptable. Not one, because it isn’t or never will be.

You just described the unrealistic expectations of your program’s real world position in 2021 by applying 1987 standards!
 

Coach Geez

Junior
Dec 23, 2019
1,692
2,105
113
But the point I was making was not how YOU all view the situation, but how other coaches outside of the IU bubble - and who likely personally know Archie more than they do the IU fan base - likely view the situation with your program.

You don’t have an ounce of a clue how “other” coaches view the Indiana job. Any and everything you’ve said is pure conjecture.
 

ufo33

Hall of Famer
Jul 7, 2005
17,122
5,833
113
which is why iu needs to hire an IU guy. Hopefully, someone like Alford or Woodson can ride in on a white horse.
Not Woodson. It is too late in the game at 63 to have never coached college basketball, to be handed the IU coaching job. Almost a certain crash & burn. I want to see Woodson successful coaching in the NBA before he retires. You don't buyout Archie for $10 mil only to hand the keys to a 63 year old who has never coached college basketball or recruited HS players before. ESPN would be falling off their seats laughing at IU.
 
Dec 28, 2015
1,905
1,455
113
If you don't want excellence.
Then your just fine with being mediocre.
IU's fanbase isnt going to settle for even 5 th place in the Big and one win in the tournament.
That's not gonna cut it here..It would be different if we were Purdue..
And never got to hoist mutiple 🏆
I'm patient..Let's see how it all plays out.
 
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benhyoung14

Recruit
Silver Member
Mar 26, 2021
35
24
8
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.
I agree with you on everything but recruiting. AM even out recruited painter. If you assume last year IU would've made the NCAA tournament, IU and AM took a step back this year. I think all ADs want to see is improvement and a solid NCAA tournament team by year 4. Not having an offense to speak of for 4 years isn't a solid team. I think most coaches would be comfortable with that.
 

UncleMark

Hall of Famer
Sep 1, 2001
21,297
19,263
113
The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.

Just make the damn NCAA tournament. Your soliloquy is way too dramatic. Archie would have gotten more time if he’d have shown any....ANY....progress. But he didn’t and the only recruit he had for next year was Duncomb.
See the bolded. Miller's teams actually regressed.
When you sign a 7 year contract and fire somebody after a little more than 50% of the agreed upon term you send a strong signal to future candidates.
Yes, that progress is expected. If all you do is tread water or backslide after 4 years, you've not proven you're going to be able to perform at the level IU demands.
 

Coach Geez

Junior
Dec 23, 2019
1,692
2,105
113
Fine. Then keep doing the same thing.

What did Einstein say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

lol

Pretty sure Einstein would have been smart enough to figure out Archie was never going to be the long term answer.

@destewart still waiting on your dumbass to walk back your totally inaccurate comment on Jim Boeheim winning 2 national titles in the last 23 years
 

destewart

Sophomore
Jun 5, 2001
813
926
93
Jim Boeheim has one national title in 41 years so you don’t know what the f*** you’re talking about.
Well, when firing four coaches in less than 20
Years becomes your new normal it doesn’t ‘seem like you are a destination job anymore so maybe you need to examine what you as fans have done and not blame the coaches.
 

Bob Sienicki

Recruit
Aug 2, 2004
27
63
13
If you don't want excellence.
Then your just fine with being mediocre.
IU's fanbase isnt going to settle for even 5 th place in the Big and one win in the tournament.
That's not gonna cut it here..It would be different if we were Purdue..
And never got to hoist mutiple 🏆
I'm patient..Let's see how it all plays out.
How extraordinarily naive.

No one said you should accept mediocrity. But the world is not a static place. You don't hire a coach one day, and be in the Final Four the next - and stay there forevermore! That's fantasy land.

Damon Bailey and Rick Mount were not instant top shooters when they hopped out of the crib. It took years of practice and lots of misses.

There is no such thing as "Top Program Instant Mix - just add coach!"

Wake up, smell the coffee!
 

HoosierJimbo89

All-American
Nov 27, 2010
6,500
3,599
113
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.
Same incorrect, sorry ass narrative pushed by the sorry ass drive-by media. We get it: PU has no standards and will give anybody a lifetime job. Archie was no closer today to getting things figured out than he was on day 1.
 

Coach Geez

Junior
Dec 23, 2019
1,692
2,105
113
Well, when firing four coaches in less than 20
Years becomes your new normal it doesn’t ‘seem like you are a destination job anymore so maybe you need to examine what you as fans have done and not blame the coaches.

You still aren’t going to walk back your inaccurate comment about Boeheim winning 2 national titles? And what it’s the fans fault that IU coaches don’t win? They should accept mediocrity? No, that’s a Purdue thing.
 
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Coach Geez

Junior
Dec 23, 2019
1,692
2,105
113
How extraordinarily naive.

No one said you should accept mediocrity. But the world is not a static place. You don't hire a coach one day, and be in the Final Four the next - and stay there forevermore! That's fantasy land.

Damon Bailey and Rick Mount were not instant top shooters when they hopped out of the crib. It took years of practice and lots of misses.

There is no such thing as "Top Program Instant Mix - just add coach!"

Wake up, smell the coffee!

Archie Miller REGRESSED. This isn’t about staying stagnant or treading water, IU got WORSE as Archie’s tenure went on. Unacceptable. See ya.
 

Sobchak_Security

Benchwarmer
Jan 4, 2020
308
370
63
Syracuse coach has two NC’s since your last one, but they waited 23 years to win his first one! You would never keep a coach that long which was the period between your 1953 and 1976 championships. In the last 36 years Villanova has three NC’s and you have one. They have won as many as RMk won with two different coaches. It took Jay Wright 15 years to win a title. How many coaches have you had the last 15 years?
How many years of those did Boeheim miss the NCAA tournament overall and in consecutive seasons? How many losing records in conference play did he have? Did he have periods of 2-27 records against upper tier programs in the conference?
 

IU Hoops Fan

All-Big Ten
Aug 28, 2001
4,714
331
83
I actually think IU fans have been too patient with coaches. We let Davis, Crean and Miller coach here longer than we should have. And fans of truly elite programs, whether it’s basketball or football, would never have accepted the crap that IU has put on the court for far too long.

The thought that IU’s fan base has too high of expectations is silly. The problem is, our expectations aren’t high enough.
 

snarlcakes

Senior
Sep 9, 2009
2,059
1,842
113
Here is the sad reality of IU's coaching search...
  1. Big name coach or not, they all realize IU is going to be a long term rebuild - longer than fan base patience in the IU fish bowl.
  2. The expected length of tenure is currently 4 years, maybe less, depending on performance vs expectations.
  3. The IU fan base expects the team to compete for B1G titles, reverse the losing string to Purdue, and make deep runs in the ncaa within that time frame.
  4. The IU administration is not afraid to pull the ripcord, even with huge buyouts, thereby potentially ruining a coach's career if they don't meet expectations, even if the team's record improves each year.
  5. For a rapid turnaround, prospective coaches will want to know where they will get the players when:
    1. Most of the current team is scrambling to the transfer portal,
    2. Top transfers from other programs want to go to currently winning programs, and
    3. Matt Painter has come into his own with top recruits throughout Indiana, and has a team that could be in the top 10 for the next few years.
  6. Even with top recruits, IU has shown no real progress toward meeting the fan base expectations.
  7. The mystique of the 5 banners is no longer a major selling point to coaches and elite players - who care only about what the program has done lately.
  8. There is a growing belief that IU's "brand" is more about RMK than IU - kind of how UCLA's brand is more about Wooden than the program itself.
  9. So with all those considerations, why would a successful coaching candidate - even at a mid-major program - want to abandon a good thing for IU's collapsing program, when they can wait for a more promising career move at a top program that has only stumbled for a few years? Texas or OU may not have the storied history of IU, but have had considerable success far more recently than IU.
The bottom line is that promising coaches will become more interested in IU when the expected length of tenure, and length of the fan base patience, exceeds the candidates' estimations of how long it will take to rebuild the program.

Sorry. Just the facts, ma'am.

Or IU's future coach is still coaching in the NCAA tourney.