Produce equal students

[IUCrazy2]

When in high school there was a cadet teaching program for those of us exploring the idea of perusing a career in education. I was assigned to assist a fifth grade teacher in a low income neighborhood.

The teacher selected six very low IQ students to study math each day with my help. The students didn't know why they selected but felt special. Might think of this as a reverse honors class.

At any rate, with the special help these students went from struggling with problems dealing with fractions to being average and above. Could not help but wonder if it was because they felt special or because of the extra guided study. Probably both.

To this day, I believe most of us can master a subject which isn't extremely difficult but can be useful in dealing with life if we spend enough time learning it. The time Learning it depending on our aptitudes on a particulate subject and our overall intelligence.

In other words, it is the slow learners who should be in the honors class.

To your last point, no, each learner should be in the class that best suits them and the attention they receive should be equal.

Those kids did not need an honors class, they needed a little more attention. Honors doesn't equal attention. I did not feel any more attention in my honors classes than I did my regular, most of the difference was based on selection of material, how quickly we covered material, or how deeply we went into material.

 

[hoosboot]

It is like an accelerated class, honors is probably the wrong word for it. There is still the ability for the kids within that type of accelerated learning environment to do the things you suggest. The kids are not robots so there is always going to be some degree of difference around how quickly they are absorbing material.

However, going back to my main point, lars was saying that there is no way that places like Carmel would do away with these advanced classes. Seems to be a whole bunch of people arguing for just that. Which gets back to my point. "You're crazy for thinking that would happen. Well it is happening but that is not the norm. Well yeah it is happening almost everywhere and this is why it should be the norm." You could see that play out in just this thread alone.

Parents get obsessed (particularly in elementary and middle school) with the label being put on a class rather than the specifics of what their kid is ready to learn and how they master that material. I don't see much evidence of schools doing away with accelerated learning for students who are ready for that acceleration. If people want to call that class "chicken picata", it doesn't matter. What's effective for each student does matter.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It’s all jargon, that’s what is wrong with it. Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion is the jargon of wokeism and other liberal handwringing. One reason we have jargon is to enable perpetual conversation and meaningless action that doesn’t accomplish much if it accomplpushes anything. The problem is that Black kids are not receiving good educations. That problem is not addressed by elite institutions patting themselves on the back by creating offices, policies, and images of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. A DEI office in Carmel schools, Carmel municipal government, or Carmel business doesn’t do a damn thing for a problem that is going from bad to worse as I write this. Jargon and DEI just makes people feel like they are helping.

Old man screams at clouds "this isn't how things were when I was young".

 

[hoosboot]

Just the ones that don't eat their meat

And they most certainly don't get any pudding. How could they?

 

[Indianaftw]

You know a lot of illogical and, sorry, possibly stupid people apparently. Believing a lie doesn’t make the lie true - it’s still a lie. You remind me of the 9/11 Truthers during the Bush years. Their theories were also illogical and evidence free. I used to laugh at them because they were mostly moonbats and Democratic voters. This big lie thing is more sad to me because it’s mostly Trumpsters and wingnuts who at least vote Republican most of the time which I still think is usually the right choice except for Trump and hard core illogical Trumpsters.

By the way, the people I work with are overwhelmingly former military and Republican. I don’t know a single one of more than a hundred that believe the big lie and several, maybe most, voted for Trump. Voting for Trump doesn’t require you to believe illogical and stupid conspiracy theories. The sooner you realize that the better off you’ll be.

Also, it’s people like you in Georgia that cost us one or both Senate races and gave us a Democrat-controlled Senate. The big lie has consequences.

And many of the sources I follow are former military, CIA or FBI that doesn't make you right. I have enough of them that I follow where I can hear from them and other sources and make my own decisions. I don't need to share your opinion of them because they already laugh at delusional people like you. The sources that I have put up on the WC bubble get ignored, shot down as conspiracy, or ignored. These are people who have been in the jobs I describe in my posts and are still friends with many of the officials still in office. So you carry on with your opinion. Its not gonna change mine. There are few on this board compared to the many I know.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Don't they sort of do that in England? By or in high school you get tracked - college or vocational etc

They do it in Germany in high school

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Parents get obsessed (particularly in elementary and middle school) with the label being put on a class rather than the specifics of what their kid is ready to learn and how they master that material. I don't see much evidence of schools doing away with accelerated learning for students who are ready for that acceleration. If people want to call that class "chicken picata", it doesn't matter. What's effective for each student does matter.

So long as we get pronouns right of course…

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Old man screams at clouds "this isn't how things were when I was young".

Hell, I'm just getting warmed up. More examples of silly useless leftist jargon that accomplishes nothing except to perpetuate leftist uselessness

Systemic Racism
Environmental equity
Anti-racism
Anti-fascism
Reproductive justice
Gender affirming
Birthing people
Follow the science
Science denier
and . . . .Extreme MAGA

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Thank you, but I do truly believe most people are not crazy.

Uh, look around.

 

[hoosboot]

So long as we get pronouns right of course…

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

And many of the sources I follow are former military, CIA or FBI that doesn't make you right. I have enough of them that I follow where I can hear from them and other sources and make my own decisions. I don't need to share your opinion of them because they already laugh at delusional people like you. The sources that I have put up on the WC bubble get ignored, shot down as conspiracy, or ignored. These are people who have been in the jobs I describe in my posts and are still friends with many of the officials still in office. So you carry on with your opinion. Its not gonna change mine. There are few on this board compared to the many I know.

It doesn’t matter who you follow. You’re believing a lie and conspiracy theory that’s massively illogical and evidence free. Sorry, but it’s plain stupid to believe it. You really need to get out of that cult. Your embarrassing yourself, and more importantly you’re embarrassing Republicans.

Carry on with it though. It’s obvious you want to believe this so much that you’ve convinced yourself that illogical and stupid are logical and smart. It’s quite sad.

Did you graduate from IU? I hope the answer is no.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

And many of the sources I follow are former military, CIA or FBI that doesn't make you right. I have enough of them that I follow where I can hear from them and other sources and make my own decisions. I don't need to share your opinion of them because they already laugh at delusional people like you. The sources that I have put up on the WC bubble get ignored, shot down as conspiracy, or ignored. These are people who have been in the jobs I describe in my posts and are still friends with many of the officials still in office. So you carry on with your opinion. Its not gonna change mine. There are few on this board compared to the many I know.

^^^^

I tried to warn you.

 

[Indianaftw]

You may want to pump the breaks, wtf.
As a troll, you are dangerously close to jumping the shark. You have to leave 'em guessing.

You lost me bulky

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Nah. Studies show a diverse workplace is good for new ideas and business. I know some on here love the groupthink though.

bias studies by liberal profs or institutions with agendas?

regardless, I’m not arguing that groupthink is a good thing or that diverse opinions cannot help. But, just like the OP, they are being prioritized over and affecting other better, more rational decisions for the sake of feelings. That’s the problem.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Progressive thinking is actually tailoring class activities to varying aptitude levels, such as having different reading level groups that challenge everyone. The dumb DANCs can read Green Eggs and Ham while the smart shooters read Of Mice and Men

I figured you’d read that because you can relate to Lennie well

 

[mcmurtry66]

bias studies by liberal profs or institutions with agendas?

regardless, I’m not arguing that groupthink is a good thing or that diverse opinions cannot help. But, just like the OP, they are being prioritized over and affecting other better, more rational decisions for the sake of feelings. That’s the problem.

bias studies by liberal profs or institutions with agendas?

regardless, I’m not arguing that groupthink is a good thing or that diverse opinions cannot help. But, just like the OP, they are being prioritized over and affecting other better, more rational decisions for the sake of feelings. That’s the problem.

For Immediate Release:

In an interview shooter conducted with himself he revealed that a diverse workplace is good for new ideas and business.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You lost me bulky

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Again, FWIW, there's research that suggests an "honors" class in 3rd grade may not be as helpful for him as non-segregated classes where he moves at his own pace and strengthens his own learning by helping other students.

id like to ready such research. It seems to defy the logic and historical perspective that people and kids should push their limits and might result in complacency per crazy’s post.

can you point us to these? Now that I’ve got my bias stated, I can read these and hopefully change my internal logic

 

[stollcpa]

The idea of teaching down to the level of underachievers, vs teaching up to the level of high achievers is becoming more and more common. Unfortunately, it is not ourselves we are competing with. When the China's and India's of the world have many more students proficient in the areas of STEM, that will be a problem.

You just said it all in plain English.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You just said it all in plain English.

The 1980's called...they want Jim's post back. And in the Factory Model School, the aim was always to teach to the middle.

 

[IUclover]

bias studies by liberal profs or institutions with agendas?

regardless, I’m not arguing that groupthink is a good thing or that diverse opinions cannot help. But, just like the OP, they are being prioritized over and affecting other better, more rational decisions for the sake of feelings. That’s the problem.

What’s your source? Your feelings?

 

[iuwclurker]

The 1980's called...they want Jim's post back. And in the Factory Model School, the aim was always to teach to the middle.

Plus in China and India they teach to the top. The others be damned.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

What’s your source? Your feelings?

more like the countless articles that calculate the failures of affirmative action, but dismiss or excuse them because of their inherent bias that diversity > performance and results.

exhibit A:

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/36853299/angel_onuoha_ec_970.pdf?isAllowed=y&sequence=1

 

[IUclover]

more like the countless articles that calculate the failures of affirmative action, but dismiss or excuse them because of their inherent bias that diversity > performance and results.

exhibit A:

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/36853299/angel_onuoha_ec_970.pdf?isAllowed=y&sequence=1

One.. What about that liberal institution comment?

Two.. I thought your comment I replied to referred to corporate outcomes?

 

[UncleMark]

He made it in the context of manufacturing. Insert Vietnam, Pakistan, Central America. They work harder. There's no factory in the US that we can message at 3 am. We do it in Pakistan all the time.

That's because it's noon there, dumbass.

 

[UncleMark]

Parents get obsessed (particularly in elementary and middle school) with the label being put on a class rather than the specifics of what their kid is ready to learn and how they master that material.

What are we going to do about all the "My Kid Is An Honor Student" bumper stickers?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

What are we going to do about all the "My Kid Is An Honor Student" bumper stickers?

On the Subarus? Those are the stickers right next to the pronoun stickers.

 

[mcmurtry66]

On the Subarus? Those are the stickers right next to the pronoun stickers.

and above the Who Saved Who paw

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

That's a classic old school Communist approach to their version of leveling the playing field... Bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator rather than encouraging anyone to excel... Which is both incredibly stupid and incredibly dangerous in regards to the future of our country...

The Democratic National Committee is the most gutless organization on the planet... You know they want to Identify as Communists but they're too afraid to come out of the closet...

Those people have to be stopped...

To be fair, I know a handful of actual Marxists (all professors, of course). None of them think de-leveling and trying to have equality of natural abilities is possible or desirable.

If you think Communist China or Soviet Russia would have implemented these ideas, you are dead wrong. They track(ed) ability levels more heavily than we do in the U.S.

 

[iuwclurker]

To be fair, I know a handful of actual Marxists (all professors, of course). None of them think de-leveling and trying to have equality of natural abilities is possible or desirable.

If you think Communist China or Soviet Russia would have implemented these ideas, you are dead wrong. They track(ed) ability levels more heavily than we do in the U.S.

Duh. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

On the Subarus? Those are the stickers right next to the pronoun stickers.

i was listening to the radio and they were talking about a new study that showed how closely car selection aligns with personality.

as a Subaru driver, I always knew I was a leftist lesbian.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

i was listening to the radio and they were talking about a new study that showed how closely car selection aligns with personality.

as a Subaru driver, I always knew I was a leftist lesbian.

Are you a lesbian trapped in a man's body?

 

[Indianaftw]

And now this? SMH. The honorable???

 

[Lucy01]

And now this? SMH. The honorable???

View embedded media

Lock him up! He should be no different than Martha Stewart.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

i was listening to the radio and they were talking about a new study that showed how closely car selection aligns with personality.

as a Subaru driver, I always knew I was a leftist lesbian.

I guess my Fiat 500 makes me REALLY gay.

NTTAWWT.

 

[Lucy01]

I drive a F250 Ford Diesel pickup myself.

 

[UncleMark]

I drive a F250 Ford Diesel pickup myself.

Incel

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I guess my Fiat 500 makes me REALLY gay.

NTTAWWT.

Yes. Yes it does.

 

[stollcpa]

The 1980's called...they want Jim's post back. And in the Factory Model School, the aim was always to teach to the middle.

We can teach to the middle but we better figure out how to challenge the brilliant kids too.

We also need a better way to teach the mentally challenged. My daughter in law is a fourth grade teacher. She has a mentally challenged boy in her class. He disrupts the class all day every day that makes it extremely difficult to teach the rest of the students. She’s told she has to deal with it. How do you deal with it when he’s acting out continuously and there’s no discipline available? She deals with it by talking with him and not teaching the rest of the kids.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

We can teach to the middle but we better figure out how to challenge the brilliant kids too.

We also need a better way to teach the mentally challenged. My daughter in law is a fourth grade teacher. She has a mentally challenged boy in her class. He disrupts the class all day every day that makes it extremely difficult to teach the rest of the students. She’s told she has to deal with it. How do you deal with it when he’s acting out continuously and there’s no discipline available? She deals with it by talking with him and not teaching the rest of the kids.

He has the same rights to education as anyone else.
But, you are right. The school needs to provide more support. But, that's very expensive. Remember when posters were crying about how much money is spent on inner city schools, compared to parochial schools? Well, take your DIL's class, and multiply it by ten...then add in ESL (my friend's school has about 35% ESL students, 2/3 Spanish and 1/3 Haitian Creole) and other factors. I just described for you a typical inner city public school. Not parochial, though...they offer very little services.
But, but, but...public schools in the city are wasting money for little return!
Maybe convince your DIL's district to pay for more Sp.Ed. support. Good luck.