Per Bozich....
- Thread starter bsmitty08
- Start date
What do you mean by "core talent" being "some Indiana talent"?
It's difficult for me to believe the 1976 team would have been good without Buckner and May, or the 1981 team would have been anything at all without Isiah Thomas, or the 1987 team being memorable without (1)
Joe Hillman coming off the bench to kill UNLV, plus (2) Keith Smart scoring most of IU's points in the second half against Syracuse in the next game.
What is a "core" player on those teams (three of IU's best ever) the way you're using it?
How about Kent Benson, the top high schooler in the country as well as the nation's best center, along with Bobby Wilkerson, a 6-7 guard who jumped center, all -unsung Tom Abernethy, and athletic sixth man Wayne Radford?Or maybe Indiana Mr. Basketball and Big Ten MVP Ray Tolbert, as well as Landon Turner, future Big Ten MVP Randy Wittman, sharp shooter Ted Kitchel, and versatile Steve Risley, so athletic at 6-8 that he was a star quarterback in high school?
I guess you had to be there to understand and appreciate what you don't know.
Knight primarily recruited Indiana , Ohio, and Illinois. It was never just Indiana like some insinuate here.
Nobody.....and I mean NOBODY is saying just get Indiana kids.
What we are saying is Indiana talent is the base, its the priority, its what IU builds off of.
Without it.....there isn't enough out of state talent IU can land to thrive.
Can IU thrive without out of state talent? Yes.
Can IU thrive without in state talent? Ask Mike Davis
I still say Alford was the only choice when Knight left. We would recruit the Midwest great and have 7 or 8 banners by now. Top 10 team every year.
Why? Alford has great Indiana ties still today
I don't know about Alford winning 2 or 3 titles, but IMO both he and IU would have avoided a lot of tough times had he replaced Knight. I remember Billy Packer saying (paraphrased) "These next 2 minutes may determine the next 20 years of Indiana basketball" during the 2001 Big Ten Tournament Championship game between IU and Iowa. Iowa won the game, but IU still hired Davis and the rest is history
Fifteen of those 20 seasons have now passed and it's certainly not been pretty for IU. While Alford has had his troubles, his path still led him to one of the bluebloods. I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that Alford might be able to recruit his home state better than he has the state of California. He's been lighting it up in California even though the UCLA fans hated the hire, have flown banners asking for his dismissal and turn out in small numbers at Pauley Pavillion.
Back in the day, if you suggested that Alford would likely recruit the state of Indiana well, the type of response you would get is similar to the response that you gave in the quoted post above. If Alford can keep his head off the chopping block this season, you and the many guffawers will have an opportunity to watch an Indiana legend lead UCLA back to the elite level over the ensuing years and that will be truly funny!
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I'm not a Crean supporter, but I get sick and tired of always reading this cryptic bullshit on these threads. I don't care if you heard it second, third, or fourth hand, just spill it.
only for coaches who can't seal the deal
you guys are too much. hilarious! ya, let's blame social media. did they blame the new interstate system in the 50s? jesus
That's it!
Crean should just take a pay cut and your criticisms would go away!
Someone tell him.
Let's just say the recruiting rules were "different" then (i.e. virtually nonexistent).
I was there, but it looks like you're saying Benson and Wilkerson(who didn't play more than a few minutes in the champ game against Michigan) were "core" players but Buckner and May were not. How are you defining a "core" player? How many "cores" do your teams have?
Find the best team in IU history were Indiana talent wasn't one of the best 5 or 6 players.
I'm sure there is one, right?
First, Wilkerson was a key (core) player on that team, regardless of how much he played in the 32nd game of the year. And if you don't believe KB and BW were core players on that team, you weren't watching.
When was the last time a 6-7 guard jumped center instead of a 6-11 All-American center?
That alone should tell you just how unique a player BW was and how important his role to the '76 Hoosiers. Don't forget, when he went down in the championship game IU struggled the rest of the half and trailed 35-29 at intermission.
25 years ago even Ky had a lot of home grown talent. through the years because of how different social media was and just how you travled, recruiting for the most part was kept with in driving distance.
Today with private jets your in 3 states looking at 5 top guys in a day. just so different . IUs success with talent from Indiana and surrounding states 30 years ago had a lot to do with great coaching by Knight.
Today thats just not realistic . kids coming in are ready to play at a high level. ya you will get some great stories out of home town kid playing at IU. but thats about all youll get.
The guy saying deep down IU does not want to follow UKs pattern. i disagree. i admit at first i was not sure how i felt about guys coming in for a year and winning at a high level , but leave to pursue NBA dreams. to be honest its been a pleasant surprise . Cal has made a family culture so even when these guys leave they become sponsors for UK in the NBA. trust me it helps when a guy like Wall , who has been gone for 7 years . does an interview last week and says how he learned about loyality and winning while at UK. and he wants to bring that culture and loyality to the Wizards. thats a huge recruiting advantage.
Just curious . has any of Creans studs in the NBA been back to represent the program ?
Today with private jets your in 3 states looking at 5 top guys in a day. just so different . IUs success with talent from Indiana and surrounding states 30 years ago had a lot to do with great coaching by Knight.
Today thats just not realistic . kids coming in are ready to play at a high level. ya you will get some great stories out of home town kid playing at IU. but thats about all youll get.
The guy saying deep down IU does not want to follow UKs pattern. i disagree. i admit at first i was not sure how i felt about guys coming in for a year and winning at a high level , but leave to pursue NBA dreams. to be honest its been a pleasant surprise . Cal has made a family culture so even when these guys leave they become sponsors for UK in the NBA. trust me it helps when a guy like Wall , who has been gone for 7 years . does an interview last week and says how he learned about loyality and winning while at UK. and he wants to bring that culture and loyality to the Wizards. thats a huge recruiting advantage.
Just curious . has any of Creans studs in the NBA been back to represent the program ?
You're focusing on the wrong statistic.
Go back to the 1980, 1990, 2000 and 2010 census figures for Indiana and Kentucky. Simply put, Kentucky's state population did not keep up with Indiana's.
Vic and Cody have both been back. Wade, as a Marquette player has even spent time on IUs campus.
I don't think Vonleh has been back, and wouldn't hold my breath on his return with some of the rumors of how his relationship soured with Crean.
IU players come back not only because of the coach but because of the university, campus, social scene, restaurants, etc. always want to have kids that were engaged students rather than mercenaries .
How old are you?only for coaches who can't seal the deal
you guys are too much. hilarious! ya, let's blame social media. did they blame the new interstate system in the 50s? jesus
What year do you think it almost happen? Alford wasn't interviewed when we hired Sampson or Crean. He and Craig Neal were shocked they were not contacted during the Crean hiring process.
It was never close to happening. Steve never got a sniff from IU. There were some alums who wanted it to happen and tried to make it happen, but the university wasn't biting, much to Steve's frustration and disappointment.
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Herbert wanted Sampson. He also wanted to make sure Davis was replaced by another minority coach.
I'm not sure Alford ever had a chance, and I'm not sure he deserves a chance, at IU after the way he handled the Pierre Pierce sexual assault case.
He must be almost as old as Eisenhower, since he mentioned the interstate system.
Not sure you can call NBA All star players like Cousins, Rondo, Wall, Davis and Even Prince mercenaries . Rondo and Prince didnt even play for Cal. But both return regularly to support The program.
UK just had Counsins , Wall and WCS return for Mid night Madness. multiple players have taken advantage of continuing their education and working towards a degree under UKs rule all players have life time scholly to complete their degree when they leave.
Like i said at first i was not sure how this method would impact UK and its relationship with players leaving to pursue pro careers after a year or two. i gotta say the guys who left early show more intrest and come back more then players who stayed longer. its a pretty good feeling when guys like Townes and Booker say their early success in the pros came from the year of preparation at UK. and then to show back up to support the school and fans is pretty cool. hell our transfer Kyle wyjler comes back here more then he does Gonzaga. it shows the culture and atmosphere that has been built brings them back. it also helps to attract the best of the best.
old enough to know social media is not why crean can't get the best indiana kids to stay home.
or were you trying to call me immature? that's usually what folks do on the internet when they run out of bad excuses lol
Lol. i understand . i guess what im trying to say is. you can bring in a coach who recruits on a high level( 1 and dones) and IU will keep that special relationship between the players and the program.
We are not expecting any coach to get all of Indiana kids to stay instate. We do expect the coach to get a majority of them and Crean has struggled to get any top Indiana kids over the past 5 years.
2013- Missed on the top 2 instate players
2014-1 out of 3 Missed on Lyles and Bluiett
2015- Missed on the top 2 instate players
2016-Missed on the top player
2017-Missed on the top 4 instate players
2018-Looks unlikely he will get the top prospect
All of the above players were top 50 or better prospects and Crean has went 1 for 12 (most likely 1-13 when he misses on Langford). What's wrong with criticizing a coach when he is performing poorly? 1 out of 12 meets your expectations? The issue you have is that Indiana actually has a smart fanbase.
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Not the way I want IU to recruit because I like to watch a player come in a grow as a player over 3 or 4 years.
He has performed poorly with recruiting Indiana players, but he has been doing a nice job assembling talent on the team.
Depending on who leaves this year.....I don't know if you can say that going forward.
agree but talented enough to match his pay grade? remember, we were super talented last year and went 2 and 2 in the post season
dude needs to break through his own ceiling and then break through it on the reg. could be a tall order even if you don't look at who we are prob losing and who is coming in. do 3 star guys sometimes play like 5 star guys? for sure but not often enough to sustain a program at an elite level, i'm afraid
I could introduce you to a G V pilot that tells an interesting story about a cancelled flight plan.
