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Official Vance /Walz debate thread

I never said he wasn't. It was because Bush trusted him.

It isn't what I think the Constitution says, you tell me where I am wrong. It IS what it says. Think about it, in the beginning the prez and vice were to be rivals. It did not make sense to give a Jefferson power to undo what Adams was doing. The 12th doesn't add any powers to the Veep

So tell me where in the Constitution a Veep gets power?

The only answer is a president lets them. It is a credit to Bush that he was willing to go along, a lot of presidents are unwilling to effectively share power.
Do you think Biden shared power or decision making with Harris?
 
In terms of being presidential or as someone interviewing for a CEO position, Vance gets my nod over the other three VP and CIC candidates based only on their debate performances.

However, based upon experience he may be the least qualified.

The most redeeming factor in the debate was when the debators actually agreed on some points along with being respectful to each other.

Finally, occasionally they actually spoke to the questions asked with Vance being slightly better in this regard.
It's true Vance has no experience in community organizing.....
 
Pretty much anything official will require the president's signature, not the VP's. Cheney had power because Bush really trusted him on foreign policy so would do what Cheney recommended. I don't know Harris' situation. President's always want to stress the VP is active and involved, but it isn't always true. I don't know how much power Harris really has, but one can assume whatever power she has is to carry out what Biden wants done. I don't believe for a moment she wanted mass deportation, but does anyone think if she wanted mass deportation Biden would sign off on it?
You're right, in that the VP's power lies in the relationship with The Big Guy.
 
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They have already clashed. Trump often listens to strong forceful people, others he casts aside in juvenile fashion. I think Trump and Vance click.
Even Trump had to be impressed with Vance last night. Wouldn't surprise me if Trump puts a lot of responsibility on him.
 
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At the turn of the century we had looming energy problems. Bush created the Energy Task Force and put Cheney in charge. Cheney greased the skids for fracking and we have become energy dominant. I really don’t care what you think the constitution says, Dick Cheney was one of the most impactful people in government in this century.
Impactful, but not always in a positive way
 
Even Trump had to be impressed with Vance last night. Wouldn't surprise me if Trump puts a lot of responsibility on him.
That's always been the plan. Vance, Tulsi, RFK, Vivek, etc will be very busy. They weren't prepared in the first administration and he couldn't trust anyone. That won't happen this time. Deep state is terrified.
 
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Do you think Biden shared power or decision making with Harris?
Biden clearly turned the border issue over to Harris, and made a big deal out of it at the time.

I think most Presidents do that - give a job or jobs to VPs they don't have time for or interest in.

State funerals, schmoozing foreign dignitaries, raising money for the Party, being at attack dog when necessary - all officially unofficial jobs most VPs do.
 
That's always been the plan. Vance, Tulsi, RFK, Vivek, etc will be very busy. They weren't prepared in the first administration and he couldn't trust anyone. That won't happen this time. Deep state is terrified.
Good point. He's going to have to show me before I believe it, but it looks like that's the plan.

Trump as CEO and the others as Senior VPs.
 
That's always been the plan. Vance, Tulsi, RFK, Vivek, etc will be very busy. They weren't prepared in the first administration and he couldn't trust anyone. That won't happen this time. Deep state is terrified.
Got a lot of bench warmers hoping to get in the game. They aren’t talented but they’re eager.
 
As opposed to the clowns you're voting for? Vance, Vivek, Tulsi, and RFK aren't smarter and more talented than Harris? Lol.
Vivek is an isolationist nut, RFKjr is a conspiracy theorist and loon, Tulsi is pretty good looking, but a fake. She pretended to be a Democrat because Republicans can’t win elections in Hawaii. Vance is smart, but lacks integrity.

The broader point is the bench is thin for a Trump cabinet and staff. The good ones served in his first administration and don’t support him for another. You’re down to the fourth string talent.
 
Vivek is an isolationist nut, RFKjr is a conspiracy theorist and loon, Tulsi is pretty good looking, but a fake. She pretended to be a Democrat because Republicans can’t win elections in Hawaii. Vance is smart, but lacks integrity.

The broader point is the bench is thin for a Trump cabinet and staff. The good ones served in his first administration and don’t support him for another. You’re down to the fourth string talent.
You're really upset that Pompeo, Barr, and Pence won't be around in the second administration. You can't sabotage him this time.

 
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As opposed to the clowns you're voting for? Vance, Vivek, Tulsi, and RFK aren't smarter and more talented than Harris? Lol.

He supports reparations. The Green New Deal. Ending the 2nd Amendment. We could go on forever.

You said this about Jr. Now that he's with Trump, you don't just get to go back on what you said.

You have no objectivity, other then bending the knee, hypocrite.
 
You said this about Jr. Now that he's with Trump, you don't just get to go back on what you said.

You have no objectivity, other then bending the knee, hypocrite.
He's not going to doing those things imbecile. He's good on some issues and bad on others. He'll only be working on the good stuff.
 
Vance is a better speaker. But he's also a better liar and a better doofus.
Walz is a serial liar. About stupid shit. And the guy looks 80. It’d be impossible for him to be a bigger doofus. But next to Harris’ unburdened stupidity walz is an upgrade. He’s not as smart as Vance.
 
And Vance spent most of the debate trying to pretend that a VP has anything to do with proposing policy and any actual role in governing, other than being President of the Senate. I see the strategy of trying to make Biden/Harris the same person, but I wonder are there really that many people stupid enough to fall for that?

I mean at one point Vance said something about Harris's 2020 covid policy. Do people believe that when the mob chanted "Hang Mike Pence" they meant "Hang Donald Trump" as well?

That's how ridiculously uninformed you have to be to accept the notion that a VP and POTUS are interchangeable and do the same job. You could tell how much they desperately wished they were running against Joe Biden...
John Adams agrees:
41678A-my-country-has-in-its-wisdom-contrived-me-most-insignificant-john-adams.png
 
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We’re clueless!!!! They should only present Vance in suits behind a podium doing press on policy. Don’t let him go out in public. Football games. Donut shops. No. Only formal. And that’s fine. Smart on issues and able to communicate them is what’s most important
But, will you let him wear eyeliner, so he can attract the Green Day voters?

Billie-Joe-Armstrong-Pictures.jpg
 
He blew up the federal debt - he's no fiscal conservative. His incompetent handling of COVID-19 caused tens of thousands of needless deaths and led to kids needlessly doing virtual school setting them back at least a year in education. Then he finished his term by trying to overturn an election he lost and instigating a violent rebellion against the government he had sworn to protect.
 
I'd be a little nervous about nervous Tim getting that 3:00 am call Hillary used to talk about, were he ever in that position. OTOH, he'd be an upgrade from Kamala, no doubt.
Let's see. Walz is a six-term member of the U.S. House plus was elected twice as Governor of Minnesota.

Yet, you think he would be worse than the guy that couldn't even prove he really was a hillbilly?
 
It’s a fair criticism. The other way to look at it is politics being the art of the possible. Not the idea of outlining your Conservative dream world.

Running on a pro-life, entitlement reform, free trade policy platform isn’t popular. So don’t campaign on them.

But then get in office and make conservative advancements on those things anyway. Be duplicitous. Democrats beat Conservatives because Conservatives say what they mean and Democrats say what voters want to hear.
 
He blew up the federal debt - he's no fiscal conservative. His incompetent handling of COVID-19 caused tens of thousands of needless deaths and led to kids needlessly doing virtual school setting them back at least a year in education. Then he finished his term by trying to overturn an election he lost and instigating a violent rebellion against the government he had sworn to protect.
He’s not a conservative….I agree.

What did you want him to do differently to change the death toll and keep kids in school?
 
He’s not a conservative….I agree.

What did you want him to do differently to change the death toll and keep kids in school?
He should have pushed smart ideas like this and encouraged the states not to close down completely:

 
He should have pushed smart ideas like this and encouraged the states not to close down completely:

What federal policy was put in place to keep that from happening?

I agree with the Declaration….
 
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He should have pushed smart ideas like this and encouraged the states not to close down completely:

The great Barrington declaration wasn’t released until a month before Election Day 2020.

At that point Trump was already campaigning on “Opening Up”.

How do you suggest Trump should’ve forced local school districts and municipalities to open their schools?

Your criticism of Trump causing extra covid deaths has no basis.
 
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That was the most revealing thing to me. If you strip away MAGA and Trump what you heard Vance espouse on that stage for the most part was the same compassionate conservatism we heard from Bush, McCain, Romney, etc.

As a rock-ribbed Conservative, I would have liked to hear Vance challenge the premise a little more often on issues like childcare, climate change, abortion, etc. I understand this is a ploy to win votes and not a CPAC conference, but at some point, Conservatives are going to have to stop arguing those issues on Democrat's terms.

If Vance failed at anything last night, it was his inability to paint Harris/ Walz as progressive radicals. Both parties came off as pretty politically reasonable.
Republicans label everyone they claim they disagree with are terms like "progressive radical." They never define what they mean by terms such as "progressive radical".

When Republicans do it that way, they think no one can demonstrate objectively that they are full of shit. Instead, the stereotyping makes it self-evident. As does this:

donald-trump-has-surged-to-the-top-of-2-new-2016-polls.jpg
 
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