I addressed that up above. The party has been out of step with their voters on this for a long time.
Official DNC covention thread
- Thread starter UncleMark
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Braunschweiger was always my punishment.
What exactly are the social issues that go away? Your dislike of the other? Read the federal government data on who commits crimes in this country. Immigrants are by far more law abiding that native born Americans. They don’t want to go back from where they came from. So they behave themselves. However, there will be exceptions and they are politicized for obvious reasons. If an American commits the same crime no big deal because you can’t score political points off something that happens every day around the country.
These people aren’t taking away great jobs from Americans. They’re taking the low skill, low paying jobs Americans refused to do. Also, with the all out push by parents for their kids to get a college education, the low skill jobs have few people to man them. Don’t forget that everyone on this forum in one way or another benefits from that cheap immigrant labor. Corporations would raise prices on everything because they would have to pay higher wages to fill all kinds of positions. Same thing with people bitching about stuff coming from China. You want to have ever made in America but it would cost you way more. So you can’t have it both ways unless of course you’re a hypocrite. The real problem is that we are a mature economy while Mexico, China, Vietnam and others are still developing. Our costs of living, manufacturing cost etc are higher as a result. Notice how back in the 70’s and early 80’s the boogey man was Japan. Then in the 90’s it was Mexico and now China. As countries develop people demand more. Hence costs rise until a new developing country steps in that has cheaper labor costs. You are now seeing Vietnam becoming a product hub and they are taking business from China. This will go on and on long after we are all dead. Nature of the human beast. We want things cheap but bitch when we don’t make anything here.
That's why you get a Honduran housekeeper.
I don’t think anyone is in favor of what currently exists. But no way it gets solved unless both sides compromise. No one in life ever gets everything they want. Take little wins one at a time but always strive to get to the optimum end result that benefits everyone and everyone can live with.
Compromise never seems to get my side anything vlose to what we want....and the side that wants an open border already ignores the enforcement rules, I don't believe they would follow through anyways.
How can you compromise when the two sides have 180 degree different goals?
One party wants a porous border, one wants a secure border. There’s no compromise to be made.
If someone claims they are here 'for jobs' they aren't getting an asylum claim in front of a judge, they are removed.
Questions and Answers: Credible Fear Screening | USCIS
ALERT: Court Order on Circumvention of Lawful Pathways Final Rule On Aug
www.uscis.gov
Biden had big political issues with this and instituted an EO that will likely be struck down in courts. Just as Trump was. Because it's a legal problem. Not an enforcement one.
'Mr. Biden's executive action is also at risk of being struck down in federal court. The American Civil Liberties Union and other immigrant rights groups have said in a lawsuit that the rule violates U.S. asylum law, arguing it mirrors a Trump-era policy that courts declared illegal.'
Under Biden border move, fewer migrants are released into the U.S. or screened for asylum
A months-long downward trend in unauthorized border crossings has accelerated since President Biden's executive order took effect.
www.cbsnews.com
Let us face it, if you want to win an election convincing the American voters the other party wants a "porous border" is a good strategy.
So what is it you want? You do realize that those immigrants add 1 trillion dollars to the GDP right? Deport all 10-11 million or whatever the number is and watch the economy crater. People just want what they want without thinking of the downstream consequences. Really simple to say just send them back. But again, who does those jobs that we won’t do? Maybe it doesn’t got solved because it is so difficult.
To say your side doesn’t get close to what they want is the same thing the fringe left will say as well. In a compromise no one gets everything they want. You win wars one battle at a time not all at once. What Langford and the dems negotiated was just one battle but it was a step forward and even senate republicans said it was the toughest border bill in decades. So take the win and keep working for more. And don’t forget that Ronald Reagan who I voted for granted amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants. This will happen again or maybe a pathway to citizenship if any deal gets done. So get something you really want in return. But you have to face the fact that you will never stop illegal immigration. The border is just to massive. Build that fictional wall of 2000 miles? Who’s paying the hundreds of billions it would cost? Not Mexico. You willing to have your taxes raised to pay? Me neither. Give me the solution that fixes the problem. Again, I am not for open borders. I’m just realistic in that there is no simple snap of the fingers and it’s fixed solution.
So you know that all democrats want a completely open border how? That’s just a stupid far right talking point. No one want a completely open border. Enlighten us as to how you completely secure a 2000 plus mile border with mountains and private property that people will not turn over to the government or anyone else. Come on you seem to think you’re the smartest guy here. Tell us how you’d do it. Wait I know. Just shoot anyone coming across the border. Yeah that’s the ticket.
And you’re right. You want no compromise so as long as there are idiot right wingers like you in congress, nothing will get done and you can continue to blame the evil democrats. You can’t possibly be married since in your world there’s no compromise worth sacrificing any little sliver of your position.
You all are never for open borders, you just don't have the will or the want to do anything constructive about it.
We tried passing a law negotiated with Republicans, they ended up wanting the issue more. All or nothing guarantees the problem stays.
No, it was a shit deal with people who want to "close the border" but whose "compromise" is to say we let 1.8 million people in a year to have their asylum claims heard knowing for sure that is going to overwhelm the courts. The "let em in" crowd has had things 100% their way since Reagan's amnesty all the while claiming we should "really do something about the border".
Just cut a deal with us where we get the status quo that has occurred for 40 years (almost 2 million people walking across the border a year) and your side gets to say we have a secure border that codifies the things you have been complaining about as now 100% legal.
Some ****ing deal.
And I don't care that the deal was negotiated by some Republicans. They ****ing suck on this issue too because the Chamber of Commerce likes their low skilled cheap labor that ends up costing us all anyways because the low wages places like Walmart pay lead to workers being subsidized by the taxpayer.
Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance - World Hunger News
Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published by Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups.
I remain unconvinced that any economic benefit that all this illegal labor provides isn't immediately offset by what they turn around and cost taxpayers in government assistance, increased education costs, etc. But hey, that stock market is humming. And yeah, that is a bit of a populist vent but there is a bit of reality in the idea that the very well off and the very not well off have been sucking the life out of the middle of the country.
I guess the middle gets better tacos out of the equation and moderately cheaper shitty fast food and trash products from China so all is good.
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You didn’t answer the question. What do you want. So we all are for open borders? And you’ve asked everyone on the other side of this debate? I believe you when you state your position. I expect the same. And your solution? Lay out your plan.
No it doesn't. They can claim asylum going through entry points.
Go outside entry points and you're breaking a law, since you are so intent on following the law.
Also caused a worldwide Depression, as predicted by mouth breather Paul Krugman
An already overtaxed welfare system. Giving non-citizens the right to vote. Known criminals being freed to come here.
Do you not read the news?
Yeah, for a supposed retired rich guy, he has a lot of anger issues.
Inner city blacks are now right wing populists? You might want to think this through.
That's Aloha's Republican Party that liked cheap labor for business purposes, when illegals weren't coming across in 10s of millions.
Oh well, hell, if immigrants add 1 trillion to the GDP, why don't we invite more in?
Youi're so full of shit.
"Republicans" didn't negotiate it. The majority would have voted against it.
Why didn't Democrats bring up HR2 in the Senate?
This is as far as I made it on your post. Use paragraphs. It’s a b#tch to read on my phone. The social issues I’m speaking of are economic related. Illegal immigration puts pressure on working class Americans wages and upwards pressure on housing, healthcare, and education that also disproportionally fall on working class Americans.
It’s why black Americans have been getting pissed off the past 18 months. They’re starting to feel the negative effects of it. @twenty02 doesn’t care because he is wealthy and insulated from it. He gets the cheap roof and Columbian (they’re hotter) housekeeper.
Scroll up. I already said I’m for legal immigration. I want educated immigrants coming into the country. America is a desirable place to migrate to. We should have a system that takes advantage of it. Allowing in 10s of million of low skilled illegal immigrants isn’t the best system. It’s dumb as f#ck.
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No we don’t get our news from Qanon. And what state gives non citizens the right to vote? And getting your news about this stuff doesn’t count either if you get it from Orange Jesus. Try using the brain God gave you.
Also, do a little research on who does and doesn’t use the welfare system. Try the Cari Institute for one. They are a Libertarian group not a left wing mouthpiece.
Read the link. I'm tired of trying to educate you morons.
How non-citizens are getting voter registration forms across the US — and how Republicans are trying to stop it
Welfare offices and other agencies in 49 US states are providing voter registration forms to migrants without requiring proof of citizenship, leading Republicans and conservatives to call for swift…
nypost.com
You’re spot on. The underlining issue is the fiat system. People fall for the bullshit that more people equals better economy because GDP goes up. It’s not true, if productivity doesn’t increase as well. Bringing in too many low skilled labor isn’t a good thing for an economy. Especially, when you have the amount of welfare and government spending we have.No, it was a shit deal with people who want to "close the border" but whose "compromise" is to say we let 1.8 million people in a year to have their asylum claims heard knowing for sure that is going to overwhelm the courts. The "let em in" crowd has had things 100% their way since Reagan's amnesty all the while claiming we should "really do something about the border".
Just cut a deal with us where we get the status quo that has occurred for 40 years (almost 2 million people walking across the border a year) and your side gets to say we have a secure border that codifies the things you have been complaining about as now 100% legal.
Some ****ing deal.
And I don't care that the deal was negotiated by some Republicans. They ****ing suck on this issue too because the Chamber of Commerce likes their low skilled cheap labor that ends up costing us all anyways because the low wages places like Walmart pay lead to workers being subsidized by the taxpayer.
Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance - World Hunger News
Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published by Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups.www.worldhunger.org
I remain unconvinced that any economic benefit that all this illegal labor provides isn't immediately offset by what they turn around and cost taxpayers in government assistance, increased education costs, etc. But hey, that stock market is humming. And yeah, that is a bit of a populist vent but there is a bit of reality in the idea that the very well off and the very not well off have been sucking the life out of the middle of the country.
I guess the middle gets better tacos out of the equation and moderately cheaper shitty fast food and trash products from China so all is good.
Let’s see because many of the fruits and vegetables they pick in the fields would rot. Read the bill. There’s a clause that mandates that all employers verify legal status. If they aren’t legal they can’t work the fields. Just look at the required reporting it places on the farm industry and individual farmers.
And you’re wrong as usual about republicans not supporting the bipartisan bill. An unnamed Republican senator recently said that without Orange Jesus ordering they kill it, most would have voted for it.
HR2 would basically deny nearly all immigration and deny almost all asylum applications. Try reading it.
I get it was out of step policy-wise. was referring to the harsh rhetoric. why did it go in that direction?
I get that. was asking why the rhetoric became so nativist and douchey. I think populism but am not committed to that idea. let's hear it from someone I'd consider a populist.
We aren't getting to zero without summary executions.No, it was a shit deal with people who want to "close the border" but whose "compromise" is to say we let 1.8 million people in a year to have their asylum claims heard knowing for sure that is going to overwhelm the courts. The "let em in" crowd has had things 100% their way since Reagan's amnesty all the while claiming we should "really do something about the border".
Just cut a deal with us where we get the status quo that has occurred for 40 years (almost 2 million people walking across the border a year) and your side gets to say we have a secure border that codifies the things you have been complaining about as now 100% legal.
Some ****ing deal.
And I don't care that the deal was negotiated by some Republicans. They ****ing suck on this issue too because the Chamber of Commerce likes their low skilled cheap labor that ends up costing us all anyways because the low wages places like Walmart pay lead to workers being subsidized by the taxpayer.
Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance - World Hunger News
Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published by Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups.
I remain unconvinced that any economic benefit that all this illegal labor provides isn't immediately offset by what they turn around and cost taxpayers in government assistance, increased education costs, etc. But hey, that stock market is humming. And yeah, that is a bit of a populist vent but there is a bit of reality in the idea that the very well off and the very not well off have been sucking the life out of the middle of the country.
I guess the middle gets better tacos out of the equation and moderately cheaper shitty fast food and trash products from China so all is good.
They largely get income assistance because they are not eligible to work. How about this, come in, get a job, stay. Come in, need assistance, good bye?
We had a huge raid of chicken processing plants under Trump. No one that illegally hired was jailed or fined. Doesn't that show your side isn't serious?
The GOP is embracing Bitcoin and hope. Democrats are embracing socialism and despair.
Really sorry to hear about your cancer... But I've got to ask you, do you know what "compromise" means? Was this House bill you keep referencing developed on a Bi partisan basis? Because the bill Trump torpedoed was...
Word is that the reason Trmp keeps claiming that "countries are emptying their asylums" is because in his limited vocab he confuses people who are seeking "asylum" with people who were housed in an actual asylum...
"Known criminals being freed to come here."
You know I can think of at least two instances where Trump ranted/raved about "immigrant criminals" while appearing on stage with accused criminals. Among the charges, conspiracy to commit murder...I guess if you're a member of a gang that supports Trump that's ok?
