who ya got.
I gotta side with NWA on this.
Kiss sucks.
I gotta side with NWA on this.
Kiss sucks.
N.W.A. vs Kiss ...
- Thread starter T.M.P.
- Start date
I'm no fan of rap of any kind, but KISS has no chops. Every song sounds the same (except maybe Beth) and has a hook, but they've virtually no talent. I know guys who love KISS but I don't put them in the top 25 of even 1970's through 1990's metal (God, how do we define that?) bands. I much prefer Black Sabbath, Dio, Megadeath, Metallica, Scorpions, Judas Priest, Accept, Motorhead and Iron Maiden.
NWA.
Gene Simmons has proven his business acumen, but he is an idiot. Though, so are the arseholes who run the RRHOF, so there's that too....
Gene Simmons has proven his business acumen, but he is an idiot. Though, so are the arseholes who run the RRHOF, so there's that too....
I wouldn't go quite that far. They are formula hook-laden songs for sure. But there was some variety. Black Diamond almost sounded kind of Alice Cooper-esque though not nearly as well sung (I know, you don't need to say it). Cold Gin is probably my favorite KISS song, I just like that riff. EDIT: AC/DC should cover it - they would kill that song. Again, too bad KISS' vocals sucked or that could have been better. And I don't care what anyone says, I still think Detroit Rock City is cool and I love playing that drum part, it's a blast.
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Ice Cube is right. Rock and roll is about being subversive more than it's about a genre. Gene Simmons is just being a crotchety old white guy.
Never enjoyed the anger of gang rap. I know that KISS isn't accepted as a "REAL" band in Rock n Roll circles and your'e not cool if you listened to them. I still remember when I got Kiss Alive II album as a kid. It was music that a 10 year old enjoyed. If I were forced to listen to one of them it would easily be KISS.
I'm as guilty as anyone for listening to KISS, and I like both Cold Gin and Detroit Rock City, but they don't have the depth or musicianship of many of the other bands I mentioned.
the phrase "rock n roll" is a piedmont blues guitar playing technique that was borrowed by a bunch of white people to describe a black music style called rhythm and blues that had been played in the south for a decade +.
That being said, the music that became known as "rock n roll" had certain traits that made it so. I IV V, with a boogie shuffle and a back beat. If Gene (the dumb ass who dressed his band in costumes to get notoriety because they sucked balls musically) wants to make it about genre - Kiss never played rock n roll. Neither did 90% of the current inductees.
Rap also has it's roots in the same place as rock and roll (the blues) and has existed as long as the blues, as blues played without instrumentation was known as rapping, and longer than jazz.
That being said, Gene Simmons is a fking idiot of VPM magnitude and should probably quit wasting time speaking and start posting on the freeboard with the fretards.
Gene hated Beth
Ha, when they were playing unplugged a journeyman guitarist had to arrange and teach them the damn song because the retards couldn't do it themselves. When they played live the backing track to Beth was a fking recording. He has no grounds to complain about rap.
Kiss was a joke, still is, and always will be.
He might be one of the dumbest musicians out there. Like a Jewish Ted Nugent with face paint.
Phuck you if you phuck with me
The police are gonna have to get me
Off your ass, cause that's how I'm going out..
NWA would whup Kiss's ass.
The police are gonna have to get me
Off your ass, cause that's how I'm going out..
NWA would whup Kiss's ass.
the creativity in one Dre beat alone beats anything GS shit out of his costume wearing ass.
I grew up in a rock household. I am an unabashed rock fan. I inherited all of my dad's CDs, LPs, cassettes, and so on. Add that to my itunes, and I can roughly estimate that it would take well over a month of non-stop listening to go through all the music in my house (that doesn't account for the fact that there are a lot of repeats, though, albums I own on LP, cassette, CD and digital). Probably not the biggest collection on this forum, but pretty big nonetheless. And most of it is rock music.
I have a lot of music from NWA and related acts. I own exactly zero Kiss tracks.
I was in the KISS army as a kid...and loved NWA in HS....
But...Gene has always been a bit of a douche.
Plus I feel sorry for Yella and Ren....nobody gives a shit about those two.
NWA's fuxed up and got the 8 ball rollin!
There again.....never had confession....never had a home....until I met Domino!!!
My buddy and I were going out for lunch and he got pulled over. We were coincidentally listening to NWA. The cop motioned for him to roll his window down but he'd already shut down the engine. When he turned the key to the 'on' position the lyrics "fvck the police" played in perfect clarity before he could turn it off.
He got a citation.
He got a citation.
When I was a kid, I got the living shit beat out of me on a playground in Chrisney, Indiana because I said Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd were actual musicians, and Kiss were a bunch of clowns. I grew up in a household in which King Crimson, Neil, Led Zep, Uriah Heep, Floyd, Beatles etc played all the time. When I heard Kiss at first I thought it was a joke.
NWA was rap, and I have always been a Scott63152 about rap.....I am a sonic racist when it comes to that genre. That said, NWA was completely anti-establishment and more "rock n roll rebel" than Kiss ever was. Now, Kiss was influential, a lot of musicians got into playing thanks to them. NWA completely transformed rap...rap went from Will Smith's asinine bullshit to something that threatened the white power structure. That is totally rock n roll, in the rebellious spirit, at least.
Think your timeline is a bit off.
Even though I like almost all of their solo stuff more than any single thing NWA did, I would still go with NWA. Not a big kiss fan.
You're correct that Smith was sort of the anti-gansta rap, rapper. But by the time he came around, the gangsta rap, f the police, revolution was well under way.
Gotcha. In the mid to late 1980s my musical world consisted of SRV, Iron Maiden, Roth era Van Halen, REM, U2, Joy Division, Rush, Floyd and Zeppelin. I was rather militant and close minded to other musical genres.
How did this thread make it this far without a picture of Shannon Tweed...?
Before there was internet porn, there was USA Up All Night.How did this thread make it this far without a picture of Shannon Tweed...?
Man, I was actually waiting to see what you would say about the above. Since you hate city music and all ..
And it's this ..
*disappointed* ..
Well, I don't hate city music, I've just never been properly introduced to it, if you know what I mean. I need a gateway to music, either hearing it live, or having someone who is passionate about it expose me to it, or whatever.
But, I don't even think there's a debate here. KISS sucked ballz. They were a gimmick band that was in the right place at the right time, and that's it. I never got KISS, and I've got a lot of friends from my HS days who are still stuck back in that crap music.
in 1984 my buddy got a dual cassette deck and dubbed me all the VH albums. At 1.5 x speed of course.
I think that was the first time I strayed from top 40 and got into a band.
Luckily my buddy was in the CBS club and got tape after tape. He soon got into Fat Boys and Run DMC...which I thought was ok...but then i heard PE and I was hooked for a good long while.
Kiss were posers. But I love a lot of bad music, and Kiss qualifies. Although I could dissect it a bit and point out some really good Kiss tunes...
Heard JD "digital" today. Put a little skip in my step.
You probably couldn't identify the young hooligans who broke bad on you because of their face paint.
I would've had your back on the playground, though.Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd? No brainers, but I've not heard much talk here about King Crimson. Sweet.
By mid eighties? About the same (drop Joy Division, and VH) but that was also the time I started on my long journey to the beginning. Doing that (studying american music in all it's forms) eventually opened my ears to rap, punk, reggae, country, jazz, etc all of which I detested beforehand. While learning - I found that I hate genre in american music. There's huge swaths of grey space between them. Only certain forms of jazz and classical have hardline rules. Everything else is more of a suggestion.
I wish there were a better system. It's at best a necessary evil.
R&B for example started as piano boogie shuffle oriented form of fast blues, became a more syncopated slower repetitive groove thing (still having elements of both blues and rhythm) and now it's oversinging strippers who don't strip, shrilling rhythmless melodies that have nothing to do with blues. Why the fk is it called R&B?
What's the difference between rock n roll and rock a billy? One band has a full set of teeth? More gain on the amp?
I remember when Ziz posted "greatest classic rock songs" and followed it with Sympathy for the Devil. I agree it's one of the great songs in rock, but I also hear it as a samba, because, it's a samba. Just sayin, not hatin'
What I find severely douchey about Gene. I know many musicians. some professional, some novice, but almost everyone of them when they reach a certain level of musical consciousness and maturity realize that genre and era hate is just juvenile and silly.
But then again, the disclaimer to that rule is "as long as it's real" - as a way to eliminate boy bands, singing strippers who don't strip and studio created asshat bands like Nashville clown acts .. or winners of game shows.
Real being key. I don't think Kiss ever was, I think they were a small time factory mass producing cheap standardized notes for consumption by idiot masses. So, no wonder he doesn't get it.
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If Kiss would have perished in a plane crash after love Gun (and Alive2 was the last tribute album) they would have been much, much, much more respected and revered.
The eponymously named first album was really good. All four sang, had really good 3 to 4 part harmonies, songs were punchy, memorable and funny (Nothing to Lose is a blast to play and features an extremely catchy call and response. Even has a 7/4 time signature blues riff to start the tune). Ace has always been mocked and he is what he is...just a dude that likes to play guitar and stays within himself. His solos are extremely catchy and fit the songs...more than Vinny Vincent, Kulic or whoever. I can sing Ace's solos...that means something.
Hotter than Hell has more of the same but the production is so horrible it kills the album...but the songs were really good and catchy.
Dressed to Kill is my favorite album of there's and it's jam packed with catchy, high energy hits. Paul is starting to come into his own on this album.
Paul is a great lead singer by the way. Great. Ask any cover band singer who does a Paul song how difficult it is to reproduce his sound. Gene on the other hand is atrocious. Should have just been a back up but their gig was to give everyone a voice to be a character and I respect that.
The next three albums started the downfall but were still great rock albums...Destroyer, Rock n Roll Over and Love Gun.
That's when they should have walked away.
Anyway when I think of Kiss I just consider the first six...which was really good.
The other day the classic rock station said they had Kiss coming up and I was like 'ugh, rock n Roll All Night again' but it was Strutter...and it made me smile (of course I sing it about my ex girlfriend Holly who cheated and left after she got bored with me. She was one of the hottest girls I've ever been with but it was short lived and 'everybody says she's looking good, and the lady knows it's understood...Holly!!').
Lol
The eponymously named first album was really good. All four sang, had really good 3 to 4 part harmonies, songs were punchy, memorable and funny (Nothing to Lose is a blast to play and features an extremely catchy call and response. Even has a 7/4 time signature blues riff to start the tune). Ace has always been mocked and he is what he is...just a dude that likes to play guitar and stays within himself. His solos are extremely catchy and fit the songs...more than Vinny Vincent, Kulic or whoever. I can sing Ace's solos...that means something.
Hotter than Hell has more of the same but the production is so horrible it kills the album...but the songs were really good and catchy.
Dressed to Kill is my favorite album of there's and it's jam packed with catchy, high energy hits. Paul is starting to come into his own on this album.
Paul is a great lead singer by the way. Great. Ask any cover band singer who does a Paul song how difficult it is to reproduce his sound. Gene on the other hand is atrocious. Should have just been a back up but their gig was to give everyone a voice to be a character and I respect that.
The next three albums started the downfall but were still great rock albums...Destroyer, Rock n Roll Over and Love Gun.
That's when they should have walked away.
Anyway when I think of Kiss I just consider the first six...which was really good.
The other day the classic rock station said they had Kiss coming up and I was like 'ugh, rock n Roll All Night again' but it was Strutter...and it made me smile (of course I sing it about my ex girlfriend Holly who cheated and left after she got bored with me. She was one of the hottest girls I've ever been with but it was short lived and 'everybody says she's looking good, and the lady knows it's understood...Holly!!').
Lol
Kiss Destroyer was the second album I ever bought. It was also the first album I ever traded. I got over them in a summer. I like a few of their songs, not many, but a few, but yea.
Seriously, you know that little melody of Beth played by violins. They couldn't figure out how to arrange it on guitar and bass for MTV unplugged. So Thayer (IIRC) does it in about ten minutes and teaches it to them over the next few days.
This is a major touring band well into their career not being able to figure out a simple 5 note melody of one of their songs. WTF? That's like not being able to beat a 2/3 zone 17 years into coaching. They "played" a recording of the track for years upon years "live"..
They couldn't take two hours to figure that out? I mean, how embarrassed would you be if you left the stage to the singer and let him sing over a recording of someone else, not your band, playing the music. That's embarrassing. It's akin to lip syncing. Just in the opposite direction.
and, he's actually bitching about rap. Get me? Gene is a complete dumb fk and probably thinks a bit too much of his value to music.
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