Mental health

[i'vegotwinners]

I'm starting to see cracks in some people in my life... attempting to operate in the new normal of general social isolation. I worry that mental health issues will be a growing problem in coming months. The novelty of the situation has worn off. And the feelings of dread.... looking at keeping even soft protocols in place for months/ year+ are starting to set in.

Some recent studies out that social isolation can actually kill you..... increased morbidity risk by loneliness, alone. This a serious concern for seniors, in particular. But I'd see it popping up in many other groups, as this continues.

I'm very concerned about this. I'm the only person Mama Goat gets to interact with on a face-to-face basis, and I can see it wearing on her. She could spend all day on the phone with her mom, her best friend, my sister, her brother, whatever, and she'd still be lonely. But the alternative is an old disabled woman with several Covid co-morbidities walking around in public with people who are way too Freedom Loving to wear face masks or stay six feet away from others. So I'm not sure what the alternative is.

For sure. Kids are really beginning to struggle as well. They thrive on routine and the social connections with their peers and teachers. Having them isolated is taking a toll.

The cracks are visible here daily.

The only thing that matters is preventing people from getting coronavirus.

every other economic and health disaster that happen as a result of that prevention must be tolerated

A lot of people are now getting a taste of what it's like to live on the margins. Never knowing what could happen next. Wondering if this will ever end. Hoping that tomorrow will be better than today, but doubting it will. The degree and detail may be different, but the constant anxiety, the dread, the resignation, the loss of hope, the having to be on constant alert, the fear of the unknown; those are things the disadvantaged know all too well.

you guys and the nation are divided (by a media who's main goal is to divide us) between forcing everything back open and back to work despite the carnage, (or the reality that building it won't make them come), or treading water forever 3 miles from shore while waiting for rescue boats to be invented.

we stubbornly, (especially the media), refuse to acknowledge the reality that we are dealing with two universes here.

the 45 and older and those with health conditions, and the under 45 and relatively healthy, and refuse to build strategies around that reality.

we need to let the young and healthy go about their day and build herd immunity among that universe, while at the same time totally segregating the at risk universe from the non at risk.

those not at risk, but who can't totally segregate from the at risk universe, need to remain segregated with the at risk or find other life/living arrangements. (most will find other arrangements).

those at risk who wish to roll the dice anyway, can join the non at risk as well, but also need to totally segregate themselves from the at risk population who isn't so willing to roll the dice.

once we have accurate antibodies testing, the otherwise at risks who test positive for antibodies can also join the "freed" universe.

the "freed" universe will grow larger and larger, and the locked down universe will grow smaller and smaller, and the herd immune universe will also grow larger and larger without putting the at risk universe anymore at risk than they are anyway.

the larger the herd immune universe grows, the less at risk the at risk universe will be.

not only is reality based segregation of the two universes best from a public health and economy pov, but also the only long term politically doable strategy, as it doesn't force lock down on those unwilling to lock down, and doesn't incentivize Wall St who runs our govt on both sides of the aisle, to force everyone back to work before it's safe for everyone..

making this official govt strategy enables govt to finance the at risk population to stay in lockdown, without corporations and non at risks sucking up a huge portion of the available "lockdown" funds.

normal life returns for all the age non at risk, antibodies positive, and roll the dice universe, which will bring the economy as far back to normal as possible without risking the at risk universe who isn't willing to roll the dice yet. (and while politically and economically enabling at risks to stay safe till a remedy or vaccine is developed).

totally segregating the two universes as official govt strategy/policy isn't ideal, but far far better than the unsustainable no strategy at all mess we now have..

the only strategy that's politically and economically doable long term with the least loss of life..

and the best strategy to build herd immunity among the majority of the population, making things better for everyone..

and again, how this differentiates from just forcing society back open, is that it preserves and makes far more sustainable the safety net for those at risk, while allowing the non at risk and wtf universe to resume normal society.

the stats below never see the light of day on mainstream media, but absolutely need taken into account in any strategy that both saves as many lives as possible and keeps the out of work above water, while letting the able all swim to shore.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

US covid death thru 5/16/2020 by age per CDC

under 1 yr old, 3 deaths
1- 4 yrs, 2
5-14 yrs 7
15-24 yrs 76
25-34 yrs 463
35-44 yrs 1,186
45-54 3,338
all ages 68,998

that's a total of 1,737 US covid deaths for those under 45 yrs old, including all with contributing heath conditions, out of 69,000 for all ages thru 5/16/2020. (US population 327 mil, so 0.00053% of the US population).

ignoring the age thing in setting a national/international strategy, as opposed to the current one (or zero) strategy for all ages, is insanity.

absent a cure or vaccine, the only way back to normal society without massive more deaths and bankruptcies is a two universe approach, with total segregation between the universes.

the "freed' universe will acquire herd immunity and eventually include everyone, as more and more "at risks" will become antibodies positive, say wtf after so many months or yrs, or die of other causes over time.

but the at risks won't be pushed this way or lose their safety net, and the not at risks can resume normal life, the economy won't go under, social distancing and masks can end tomorrow and most businesses reopen back to normal, and give the at risks sports to watch on tv again.

K-12 will be the big problem, but no bigger than now.

older non freed parents will have to school at home as now if they wish.

at risks will have to stay in period, or better yet, have businesses, parks, golf courses, trails, have senior days. (and keep drive up service options).

colleges need to adjust schedules so students with non freed parents can stay on campus yr round. (all Btown non campus housing already mandates a 12 mo lease).

not perfect, but way better than now, or any other option i've heard.

don't troll unless you have a better plan.

 

[sglowrider]

I worked in merchandising/marketing for three major companies (Target, Advanced Auto Parts and GE) and it was common to have your team/pod/sector all take a firm of them so you understood who you were working with better.

Target is absolutely amazing at it. They are huge into the 'soar with your strengths', 'getting to yes' models.

Advanced and GE were more old school, get results anyway you can stop with the stupid koom bye ya huggy feely stuff environment.

It didn't bother me either way but I grew and learned much more from Target.

 

[ButHerEmails]

I'm starting to see cracks in some people in my life... attempting to operate in the new normal of general social isolation. I worry that mental health issues will be a growing problem in coming months. The novelty of the situation has worn off. And the feelings of dread.... looking at keeping even soft protocols in place for months/ year+ are starting to set in.

Some recent studies out that social isolation can actually kill you..... increased morbidity risk by loneliness, alone. This a serious concern for seniors, in particular. But I'd see it popping up in many other groups, as this continues.

And it keeps getting worse

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...nging-the-pornography-industry-192203735.html

 

[hoot1]

you guys and the nation are divided (by a media who's main goal is to divide us) between forcing everything back open and back to work despite the carnage, (or the reality that building it won't make them come), or treading water forever 3 miles from shore while waiting for rescue boats to be invented.

we stubbornly, (especially the media), refuse to acknowledge the reality that we are dealing with two universes here.

the 45 and older and those with health conditions, and the under 45 and relatively healthy, and refuse to build strategies around that reality.

we need to let the young and healthy go about their day and build herd immunity among that universe, while at the same time totally segregating the at risk universe from the non at risk.

those not at risk, but who can't totally segregate from the at risk universe, need to remain segregated with the at risk or find other life/living arrangements. (most will find other arrangements).

those at risk who wish to roll the dice anyway, can join the non at risk as well, but also need to totally segregate themselves from the at risk population who isn't so willing to roll the dice.

once we have accurate antibodies testing, the otherwise at risks who test positive for antibodies can also join the "freed" universe.

the "freed" universe will grow larger and larger, and the locked down universe will grow smaller and smaller, and the herd immune universe will also grow larger and larger without putting the at risk universe anymore at risk than they are anyway.

the larger the herd immune universe grows, the less at risk the at risk universe will be.

not only is reality based segregation of the two universes best from a public health and economy pov, but also the only long term politically doable strategy, as it doesn't force lock down on those unwilling to lock down, and doesn't incentivize Wall St who runs our govt on both sides of the aisle, to force everyone back to work before it's safe for everyone..

making this official govt strategy enables govt to finance the at risk population to stay in lockdown, without corporations and non at risks sucking up a huge portion of the available "lockdown" funds.

normal life returns for all the age non at risk, antibodies positive, and roll the dice universe, which will bring the economy as far back to normal as possible without risking the at risk universe who isn't willing to roll the dice yet. (and while politically and economically enabling at risks to stay safe till a remedy or vaccine is developed).

totally segregating the two universes as official govt strategy/policy isn't ideal, but far far better than the unsustainable no strategy at all mess we now have..

the only strategy that's politically and economically doable long term with the least loss of life..

and the best strategy to build herd immunity among the majority of the population, making things better for everyone..

and again, how this differentiates from just forcing society back open, is that it preserves and makes far more sustainable the safety net for those at risk, while allowing the non at risk and wtf universe to resume normal society.

the stats below never see the light of day on mainstream media, but absolutely need taken into account in any strategy that both saves as many lives as possible and keeps the out of work above water, while letting the able all swim to shore.

View embedded media

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

US covid death thru 5/16/2020 by age per CDC

under 1 yr old, 3 deaths
1- 4 yrs, 2
5-14 yrs 7
15-24 yrs 76
25-34 yrs 463
35-44 yrs 1,186
45-54 3,338
all ages 68,998

that's a total of 1,737 US covid deaths for those under 45 yrs old, including all with contributing heath conditions, out of 69,000 for all ages thru 5/16/2020. (US population 327 mil, so 0.00053% of the US population).

ignoring the age thing in setting a national/international strategy, as opposed to the current one (or zero) strategy for all ages, is insanity.

absent a cure or vaccine, the only way back to normal society without massive more deaths and bankruptcies is a two universe approach, with total segregation between the universes.

the "freed' universe will acquire herd immunity and eventually include everyone, as more and more "at risks" will become antibodies positive, say wtf after so many months or yrs, or die of other causes over time.

but the at risks won't be pushed this way or lose their safety net, and the not at risks can resume normal life, the economy won't go under, social distancing and masks can end tomorrow and most businesses reopen back to normal, and give the at risks sports to watch on tv again.

K-12 will be the big problem, but no bigger than now.

older non freed parents will have to school at home as now if they wish.

at risks will have to stay in period, or better yet, have businesses, parks, golf courses, trails, have senior days. (and keep drive up service options).

colleges need to adjust schedules so students with non freed parents can stay on campus yr round. (all Btown non campus housing already mandates a 12 mo lease).

not perfect, but way better than now, or any other option i've heard.

don't troll unless you have a better plan.

Admittedly, I am having a hard time figuring out what the herd immunity advocates are suggesting should occur.
To prove my ignorance I offer up the following.

The segregation of populations by age with older citizens moving to retirement communities has been going on for many years. Today only about 20% of those over the age of 60 live with younger folks.

Several decades ago a majority of homes had occupants of two generations. Those days are gone forever.

Seems to me eliminating the problem of younger folks infecting oldsters has already pretty much occurred.

I suppose a final step of not allowing oldsters to leave their homes and communities along with breaking up the 20% of families with more than one generation is all we have left in instituting herd immunity. Does anyone believe this will actually be suggested by government officials, much less enforced?

 

[Stuffshot]

Admittedly, I am having a hard time figuring out what the herd immunity advocates are suggesting should occur.
To prove my ignorance I offer up the following.

The segregation of populations by age with older citizens moving to retirement communities has been going on for many years. Today only about 20% of those over the age of 60 live with younger folks.

Several decades ago a majority of homes had occupants of two generations. Those days are gone forever.

Seems to me eliminating the problem of younger folks infecting oldsters has already pretty much occurred.

I suppose a final step of not allowing oldsters to leave their homes and communities along with breaking up the 20% of families with more than one generation is all we have left in instituting herd immunity. Does anyone believe this will actually be suggested by government officials, much less enforced?

If you're saying that only 20% of the "oldsters" live with "younger folks" and the other 80% live in senior citizen facilities then what you wrote here isn't likely to be true: "Seems to me eliminating the problem of younger folks infecting oldsters has already pretty much occurred."

That's because most all of the workers at senior citizen facilities are younger people who are not all trained in disease prevention as much as you might hope. In addition to doctors and nurses, these other workers give haircuts and styles, give baths, help people get dressed, bring the mail, mop the floors, scrub the walls, vacuum the carpets, cook the food, wash the dishes, bus the tables, transfer to and from bed, assist with the toilet, escort to the cafeteria and medical appts, light housekeeping, empty wastebaskets, laundry, clean bathrooms and more. That's plenty of opportunity for the young to infect those over 60 even at a senior citizen facility.

 

[mcmurtry66]

If you're saying that only 20% of the "oldsters" live with "younger folks" and the other 80% live in senior citizen facilities then what you wrote here isn't likely to be true: "Seems to me eliminating the problem of younger folks infecting oldsters has already pretty much occurred."

That's because most all of the workers at senior citizen facilities are younger people who are not all trained in disease prevention as much as you might hope. In addition to doctors and nurses, these other workers give haircuts and styles, give baths, help people get dressed, bring the mail, mop the floors, scrub the walls, vacuum the carpets, cook the food, wash the dishes, bus the tables, transfer to and from bed, assist with the toilet, escort to the cafeteria and medical appts, light housekeeping, empty wastebaskets, laundry, clean bathrooms and more. That's plenty of opportunity for the young to infect those over 60 even at a senior citizen facility.

Then perhaps they are the type of targeted testing we should be doing. Use what I guess is a finite amount of tests on those in frequent contact with the vulnerable.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I'd watch Titans and Jags if it was on tonight. I'm desperate

Dude the titans went to the AFC semis last year

 

[DrHoops]

You are an idiot. Full stop.

We have been praying for this exact thing in church.
Now we are having our service in the church parking lot to stay safe so don't yell at me. We wear masks too. But I don't when I preach because people are very far away from me.
Some people handle change better than others. Those who are personable and,"touchy" are having a difficult time. Giancarlo Esposito, an actor said on a video that he misses hugging people. This is an example of what I am talking about.
Those who dislike people and have very few friends are probably doing better. So if one was a hermit then they wear a mask in the grocery store and it is not that big of a deal.
You can tell that some of the Hollywood types are having a problem. They miss being in the limelight and look quite nervous etc. Now there are those types who are doing some great things. I am enjoying Jim Gaffigan's humor while he is quarantined with his five children and wife in NYC. Jim's wife had a tumor removed several years ago so she is one of those if she got the disease might have real problems. They have dinner together every night and you can watch them live. He has this other show called, "Let's Get Cookin". It is quirky and funny. John Krasinski is doing a news program from his home where he shows all the good news that is happening today. Folks like Jim and John are trying to encourage us during this time. I appreciate them.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I'm starting to see cracks in some people in my life... attempting to operate in the new normal of general social isolation. I worry that mental health issues will be a growing problem in coming months. The novelty of the situation has worn off. And the feelings of dread.... looking at keeping even soft protocols in place for months/ year+ are starting to set in.

Some recent studies out that social isolation can actually kill you..... increased morbidity risk by loneliness, alone. This a serious concern for seniors, in particular. But I'd see it popping up in many other groups, as this continues.

We’ve never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time,” Dr. Mike deBoisblanc of John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, just outside of Oakland, told ABC7 of the apparent mental health crisis.

“I mean, we’ve seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks,” he told the station, which did not give figures to back the claims.

 

[ulrey]

Dude the titans went to the AFC semis last year

boring ass team.

 

[82hoosier]

Do you think that the people on MSNBC pretend to be unbiased or are they straight up liberal/progressive? The reason why I ask this is to make the point that everybody is biased depending on what they believe. I am a conservative small government type. I am pro Constitution as it was originally intended to be. In my view our country would be better off if we got back to the Constitution as originally intended instead of people who call it a, "living document". The Constitution spells out what government can't do to us. They can't take away our rights given to us by God. The Constitution says we have the right to self govern instead of being governed to the point where our rights of freedom are taken away from us.

To begin with your original constitution says only white men owning property can vote; and minorities are considered property. And your interpretation of the Bible added in that gays are an abomination of God who are going to burn in hell.

It’s odd that God gives you rights that are appalling to me.

 

[TommyCracker]

To begin with your original constitution says only white men owning property can vote; and minorities are considered property. And your interpretation of the Bible added in that gays are an abomination of God who are going to burn in hell.

It’s odd that God gives you rights that are appalling to me.

Another point about the original constitution is that it's almost over the top in how it's trying to keep God, particularly a Christian God out of it.

When it mentions religion it's basically saying to keep it the hell out of the government.

This pledge of alligence at school and In God We Trust on our currency, I believe, showed up in the middle of the 20th century.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Admittedly, I am having a hard time figuring out what the herd immunity advocates are suggesting should occur.
To prove my ignorance I offer up the following.

The segregation of populations by age with older citizens moving to retirement communities has been going on for many years. Today only about 20% of those over the age of 60 live with younger folks.

Several decades ago a majority of homes had occupants of two generations. Those days are gone forever.

Seems to me eliminating the problem of younger folks infecting oldsters has already pretty much occurred.

I suppose a final step of not allowing oldsters to leave their homes and communities along with breaking up the 20% of families with more than one generation is all we have left in instituting herd immunity. Does anyone believe this will actually be suggested by government officials, much less enforced?

olders can segregate and still not be excluded from leaving home, any more than they now are.

that said, in my segregated universes plan, stores/parks/ect would need senior hours/days for when they do need to go out.

as for breaking up families, i addressed that above, and no worse in my plan than now.

do you have a better plan?? if so, what??

 

[i'vegotwinners]

how has no one commented on the age statistics i posted above?

are we all pretending they don't exist?

the young have figured out they do, and we need to address the age stats posted above in any plans, or it's going to be total chaos soon.

we have total and complete idiots running the country on both sides.

 

[hoot1]

olders can segregate and still not be excluded from leaving home, any more than they now are.

that said, in my segregated universes plan, stores/parks/ect would need senior hours/days for when they do need to go out.

as for breaking up families, i addressed that above, and no worse in my plan than now.

do you have a better plan?? if so, what??

IGW, give you credit for offering a plan.

Nevertheless, given our country's federalism and views of individual freedom along with allowing business owners plenty of authority any plan to cover the entire nation is bound to be short lived. At best your plan or mine might be implemented in some locals.

Currently the plan unfolding seems to be a slow but sure course back to normalcy. How this works is anybody's guess.

At sometime in the future a plan we can mostly all agree upon may be developed for future pandemics. This will come after much lengthy research. Got a feeling we have a great deal to learn.

 

[mashnut]

how has no one commented on the age statistics i posted above?

are we all pretending they don't exist?

the young have figured out they do, and we need to address the age stats posted above in any plans, or it's going to be total chaos soon.

we have total and complete idiots running the country on both sides.

I'm certain I'll regret this, but have you thought beyond death statistics? Absolutely the mortality rate is heavily correlated with age. Do you understand the long-term pulmonary effects that even moderate cases are leaving behind? Do you understand the effects that infants are seeing after infection that aren't death but are very serious? The US military thinks that it's serious enough they have disqualified COVID survivors from joining. If you want to be taken seriously, post like a serious person.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I'm certain I'll regret this, but have you thought beyond death statistics? Absolutely the mortality rate is heavily correlated with age. Do you understand the long-term pulmonary effects that even moderate cases are leaving behind? Do you understand the effects that infants are seeing after infection that aren't death but are very serious? The US military thinks that it's serious enough they have disqualified COVID survivors from joining. If you want to be taken seriously, post like a serious person.

i get what you're saying, and unfortunately while the non lethal effects are mentioned, we get very little real info on them, just how serious, and what percent get bad though non lethal, effects.

if you have boatloads of data on this i'm interested in seeing it.

just getting the age stats i posted took some digging, as it doesn't seen like the media is interested in the age thing, or the non lethal effects you bring up, other than acknowledging that the older and more in poor health already, the more at risk.

and that their have been non lethal issues.

kids are going back to school, they aren't going to live out their lives in lockdown.

and is the lock down sparing keeping the young from getting it, or just delaying them from getting it. (i know not).

again, i wish we were getting much more info on the non lethal effects in the youngers, and the percentage of youngers who have contracted it who have serious and/or long term effects.

but we don't.

all we get are death, infection, and tested, totals.

if that serious non lethal percentage is X great, and the effects X great, then yes it absolutely would impact my thinking.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

i see us as Tom Hanks in Castaway.

it's one thing to make it to the island where we can survive indefinitely, but it's another to make it back to normal civilization.

(and i'm stuck with Wilson, and not Ginger and Mary Ann).

we can hope the vaccine/cure search plane spots us and rescues us, but no guarantees that plane is ever coming our way or going to spot us.

all i've done is acknowledge that we need a plan B for getting off the island, and that that plan should acknowledge and take into account the very significant age thing that seems off limits to even acknowledge in detail.

having a plan B, doesn't mean the search plane can't keep searching just as vigorously in the meantime.