Just when you thought Democrats could not become more stupid and irrelevant . . .

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You’re damn right bootstraps. The constant diminishing of the importance of individual effort and individualism is doing enormous damage to a whole generation.

I have no problem with bootstraps.
Of course, I realize that I was born with a pair of boots as my birthright, and most of my peers, who may have been bootless early on, at least had feet for their future boots, and would not have to worry about the boot stores being more difficult to get to when they went to go get a pair.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I like the idea of gov spending tax dollars on this stuff in poor communities. Cleaner water, pipes etc. Infrastructure. Good stuff. That's where are money should be going. DOJ? No. The way it's framed is just more pandering and virtue-signaling.

Framing environmental quality in terms of “justice” is a way to perpetually keep that issue a talking point. Environmental quality in terms of water, air, and soil is readily quantifiable, can be measured, and standards met. Framing the environment terms of justice wipes all standards off the table to be replaced with an object of continued discord and division. Back in the 80’s environmental quality was a political issue Democrats exploited by advocating for always stricter standards and more regulation. Now that we are close to peak standards and regulation the Democrats need to keep the issue alive with environmental justice. This is what liberals do.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Framing environmental quality in terms of “justice” is a way to perpetually keep that issue a talking point. Environmental quality in terms of water, air, and soil is readily quantifiable, can be measured, and standards met. Framing the environment terms of justice wipes all standards off the table to be replaced with an object of continued discord and division. Back in the 80’s environmental quality was a political issue Democrats exploited by advocating for always stricter standards and more regulation. Now that we are close to peak standards and regulation the Democrats need to keep the issue alive with environmental justice. This is what liberals do.

We're in between shows and having been watching three mile island on Netflix. Good so far. Not quite responsive to your post nevertheless

 

[iuwclurker]

Framing environmental quality in terms of “justice” is a way to perpetually keep that issue a talking point. Environmental quality in terms of water, air, and soil is readily quantifiable, can be measured, and standards met. Framing the environment terms of justice wipes all standards off the table to be replaced with an object of continued discord and division. Back in the 80’s environmental quality was a political issue Democrats exploited by advocating for always stricter standards and more regulation. Now that we are close to peak standards and regulation the Democrats need to keep the issue alive with environmental justice. This is what liberals do.

Takes two to tango. Environmental pollution became a talking point in the first place because of irresponsible bootstrap conservatives.

 

[TDHoosier]

So, bootstraps.

I guess we can all be victims, it is always someone else's fault. If that player didn't shoot so well we would have one, it is his/her fault. lol

 

[TDHoosier]

I have no problem with bootstraps.
Of course, I realize that I was born with a pair of boots as my birthright, and most of my peers, who may have been bootless early on, at least had feet for their future boots, and would not have to worry about the boot stores being more difficult to get to when they went to go get a pair.

This same story has been played out for decades, I wonder why it hasn't been solved? I mean damn the government and the people for keeping me down.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

This same story has been played out for decades, I wonder why it hasn't been solved? I mean damn the government and the people for keeping me down.

You're right. Injustice, unfair economic policies, and discriminatory practices have never existed anywhere. I began with the same disadvantages as everyone else, and it's only been through sheer hard work and determination that I have been able to be even a little successful in breaking off a small piece of the American Dream that was promised to me back in the beginning. Screw those lazy ne'er do wells for not working as hard as me...we began at the same starting line, after all.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You're right. Injustice, unfair economic policies, and discriminatory practices have never existed anywhere. I began with the same disadvantages as everyone else, and it's only been through sheer hard work and determination that I have been able to be even a little successful in breaking off a small piece of the American Dream that was promised to me back in the beginning. Screw those lazy ne'er do wells for not working as hard as me...we began at the same starting line, after all.

Fairness is not a right nor is it guaranteed. Fairness in life is a talking point. No matter what your circumstances are, you have the power within you to imorove. When you take that away from people by telling them they have no chance because of skin-color or anything else, you take away the most important possession they have.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Fairness is not a right nor is it guaranteed. Fairness in life is a talking point. No matter what your circumstances are, you have the power within you to imorove. When you take that away from people by telling them they have no chance because of skin-color or anything else, you take away the most important possession they have.

No argument.

 

[mcmurtry66]

No argument.

Well well well done. Somebody may be on the Dean's list if this keeps up

 

[iuwclurker]

No argument.

Really? You don’t see the inherent contradiction in these consecutive sentences?

“No matter what your circumstances are, you have the power within you to imorove [sic]. When you take that away from people by telling them they have no chance because of skin-color or anything else, you take away the most important possession they have.”

How can I take away from you something you have within you? COH’s sophistry in his old age has never been more transparent.

 

[bub-rub]

You’re damn right bootstraps. The constant diminishing of the importance of individual effort and individualism is doing enormous damage to a whole generation.

but what if that American bootstrap mythos is utter bullshit and even the revered settlers of yore were heavily subsidized? And, in fact, they were.

what if america was the easiest place ever to settle and make a buck? It was

The struggle was real but not as bad as literally almost every other country on earth

lol. I love America’s individualism and it certainly reflects our land but it’s also always been a collective effort. To say otherwise is just political posturing. 🤮

 

[ribbont]

I like the idea of gov spending tax dollars on this stuff in poor communities. Cleaner water, pipes etc. Infrastructure. Good stuff. That's where are money should be going. DOJ? No. The way it's framed is just more pandering and virtue-signaling.

Didn't the govt pass an infrastructure bill for like a google billion? Why do we need the DOJ to tell us poor neighborhoods got hosed the last 40 years?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Really? You don’t see the inherent contradiction in these consecutive sentences?

“No matter what your circumstances are, you have the power within you to imorove [sic]. When you take that away from people by telling them they have no chance because of skin-color or anything else, you take away the most important possession they have.”

How can I take away from you something you have within you? COH’s sophistry in his old age has never been more transparent.

Ibram X. Kendi and Robin DiAngelo are millionaires because they figured it out—using their inherent talents.

 

[iuwclurker]

Ibram X. Kendi and Robin DiAngelo are millionaires because they figured it out—using their inherent talents.

Thanks for proving my case that your argument was bullshit.

A self-evident assertion is not sufficient for a drawing politically opinionated conclusion. I sometimes wonder if a prohibition on political bullshit in the courtroom amplified your success is a lawyer.

 

[ribbont]

Really? You don’t see the inherent contradiction in these consecutive sentences?

“No matter what your circumstances are, you have the power within you to imorove [sic]. When you take that away from people by telling them they have no chance because of skin-color or anything else, you take away the most important possession they have.”

How can I take away from you something you have within you? COH’s sophistry in his old age has never been more transparent.

“No matter what your circumstances are, you have the power within you to imorove [sic]. When you take the will away from people by telling them they have no chance because of skin-color or anything else, you take away the most important possession they have.”

FIFY. Maybe that will help clarify.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Really? You don’t see the inherent contradiction in these consecutive sentences?

“No matter what your circumstances are, you have the power within you to imorove [sic]. When you take that away from people by telling them they have no chance because of skin-color or anything else, you take away the most important possession they have.”

How can I take away from you something you have within you? COH’s sophistry in his old age has never been more transparent.

I was looking at each sentence as a stand alone.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Well well well done. Somebody may be on the Dean's list if this keeps up

Dean Vernon Wormer?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Dean Vernon Wormer?

Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son

 

[UncleMark]

Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son

I don't think Bulk is fat.

 

[Univee2]

I don't think Bulk is fat.

Doesn’t matter. If he hurled on a dean he’s an exalted soul.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I don't think Bulk is fat.

Lol. I guessed. Wasn't it dean wormer who said that?

 

[Univee2]

Lol. I guessed. Wasn't it dean wormer who said that?

Yep. Learning is good . . .

 

[TommyCracker]

“No matter what your circumstances are, you have the power within you to imorove [sic]. When you take the will away from people by telling them they have no chance because of skin-color or anything else, you take away the most important possession they have.”

FIFY. Maybe that will help clarify.

I'm pretty sure people would rather have historical barriers to opportunities recognized and remedied (to the best that can be done in good faith) and eradicated compared to empty word speak and platitudes while still not tackling the former.

Which is why republican support from black communities has historically been embarrassingly low.

Republicans might want to believe it's simply from brainwashing and ignorance as a community but, here's a tip....it's from the failure to seriously and in good faith recognize, remedy and eradicate.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Yep. Learning is good . . .

Not to be pedantic, but this is important. It’s “Knowledge is good”.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I don't think Bulk is fat.

I’m big-boned.

 

[ribbont]

I'm pretty sure people would rather have historical barriers to opportunities recognized and remedied (to the best that can be done in good faith) and eradicated compared to empty word speak and platitudes while still not tackling the former.

Which is why republican support from black communities has historically been embarrassingly low.

Republicans might want to believe it's simply from brainwashing and ignorance as a community but, here's a tip....it's from the failure to seriously and in good faith recognize, remedy and eradicate.

No. It's not from brainwashing and ignorance. It's from dem policies in major metros for the past 40-50 years. You'll notice the same theme in most of my posts in this thread. Yet, no one, even you, has disputed the fact of democratic dominance in major metros. I am not saying Pubs would have done better. But I am saying the dems policies have not worked.

 

[Crayfish57]

I'm pretty sure people would rather have historical barriers to opportunities recognized and remedied (to the best that can be done in good faith) and eradicated compared to empty word speak and platitudes while still not tackling the former.

Which is why republican support from black communities has historically been embarrassingly low.

Republicans might want to believe it's simply from brainwashing and ignorance as a community but, here's a tip....it's from the failure to seriously and in good faith recognize, remedy and eradicate.

Right, the Democrats are doing a such great job in the big cities.

Remember what Lyndon Johnson said and it is so true.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I'm pretty sure people would rather have historical barriers to opportunities recognized and remedied (to the best that can be done in good faith) and eradicated compared to empty word speak and platitudes while still not tackling the former.

Which is why republican support from black communities has historically been embarrassingly low.

Republicans might want to believe it's simply from brainwashing and ignorance as a community but, here's a tip....it's from the failure to seriously and in good faith recognize, remedy and eradicate.

Disagree. The GOP has been mostly very serious about removing barriers. The Democrats have claimed for most of the 20th century that the GOP was out to suppress blacks. As a result, Democrats run the cities. Now black Democrats run many cities. What has that accomplished? Black lives in Democratic run cities still suck. It ain’t the GOP that is the cause.

 

[TommyCracker]

No. It's not from brainwashing and ignorance. It's from dem policies in major metros for the past 40-50 years. You'll notice the same theme in most of my posts in this thread. Yet, no one, even you, has disputed the fact of democratic dominance in major metros. I am not saying Pubs would have done better. But I am saying the dems policies have not worked.

Government all fits together, meaning metro areas aren't individual autonomously run governments.

A governor has much more influence than a major.

Look at Florida. Regardless if Huey Newton was the major of Jacksonville, he can't control funding cuts or downright eliminated social programs, what laws are passed (which has led to mass incarceration), down to what can be taught in school.

Please note that I'm not deflecting blame as Democrats have failed here also. We've been a hell of a lot more empathetic and behind not only the big legislative wins but in our proposed policy going forward.

Biden won the dem nomination because of the black support (Bernie had the progressives, Pete had the suburban moms and college educated, Biden had the black vote) so that's his bread and butter constituents (to reference the OP).

 

[TommyCracker]

Disagree. The GOP has been mostly very serious about removing barriers. The Democrats have claimed for most of the 20th century that the GOP was out to suppress blacks. As a result, Democrats run the cities. Now black Democrats run many cities. What has that accomplished? Black lives in Democratic run cities still suck. It ain’t the GOP that is the cause.

If so then your messaging sucks as your main crusades of the past couple of years go against some of the most personal and emotional concerns of the black communities.

I mean the Black Panther Party spelled out in their ten points stuff that is still a major concern.

Police Brutality
Justice System (mass incarceration, etc)
Racial Justice
American History from a Black POV
Proper political representation among other things....and that was from the 60's.

Here's the NAACP website with their goals and aspirations and...it's a lot of the same stuff.

https://naacp.org/know-issues

How do you think the republican messaging to George Floyd, to BLM, to CRT to these republican state voting laws play in the eyes of the black community?

From my POV Republicans aren't simply indifferent but they seem adversarial to what really matters in the black community.

 

[iuwclurker]

Government all fits together, meaning metro areas aren't individual autonomously run governments.

A governor has much more influence than a major.

Look at Florida. Regardless if Huey Newton was the major of Jacksonville, he can't control funding cuts or downright eliminated social programs, what laws are passed (which has led to mass incarceration), down to what can be taught in school.

Please note that I'm not deflecting blame as Democrats have failed here also. We've been a hell of a lot more empathetic and behind not only the big legislative wins but in our proposed policy going forward.

Biden won the dem nomination because of the black support (Bernie had the progressives, Pete had the suburban moms and college educated, Biden had the black vote) so that's his bread and butter constituents (to reference the OP).

Bloomington is an example all by itself, hamstrung left and right by the state legislature and used as a dumping grounds for failed humans from other parts of the state.

Yeah sure, conservatives are chock-full of integrity.

 

[Lucy01]

Government all fits together, meaning metro areas aren't individual autonomously run governments.

A governor has much more influence than a major.

Look at Florida. Regardless if Huey Newton was the major of Jacksonville, he can't control funding cuts or downright eliminated social programs, what laws are passed (which has led to mass incarceration), down to what can be taught in school.

Please note that I'm not deflecting blame as Democrats have failed here also. We've been a hell of a lot more empathetic and behind not only the big legislative wins but in our proposed policy going forward.

Biden won the dem nomination because of the black support (Bernie had the progressives, Pete had the suburban moms and college educated, Biden had the black vote) so that's his bread and butter constituents (to reference the OP).

Yep, he is running the Country like a third world.

 

[TommyCracker]

Right, the Democrats are doing a such great job in the big cities.

Remember what Lyndon Johnson said and it is so true.

Was it..... 'Lincoln was right about not fooling all the people all of the time, but Republicans haven't stopped trying'

😉

 

[mrhighlife]

Disagree. The GOP has been mostly very serious about removing barriers. The Democrats have claimed for most of the 20th century that the GOP was out to suppress blacks. As a result, Democrats run the cities. Now black Democrats run many cities. What has that accomplished? Black lives in Democratic run cities still suck. It ain’t the GOP that is the cause.

Neither side does shit. 9 of the top 10 states with highest poverty rate are red states. We know the issues with blue cities. Both sides could care less. Again the difference is dems act they care, they don't, while the GOP doesn't even pretend.

 

[TommyCracker]

Bloomington is an example all by itself, hamstrung left and right by the state legislature and used as a dumping grounds for failed humans from other parts of the state.

Yeah sure, conservatives are chock-full of integrity.

I didn't get the 'failed dumping grounds' comment (but I haven't lived in Bloomington since the mid 90's).

I'd imagine that Bloomington has a fairly liberal leaning city government but obviously it's a very red state government.

 

[Lucy01]

Neither side does shit. 9 of the top 10 states with highest poverty rate are red states. We know the issues with blue cities. Both sides could care less. Again the difference is dems act they care, they don't, while the GOP doesn't even pretend.

How would you fix people in poverty? It's not because there isn't jobs.

 

[mcmurtry66]

How would you fix people in poverty? It's not because there isn't jobs.

Exactly. There's no shortage of jobs and labor needs. Imo it's cars and info. That population often isn't aware of the opportunities in the burbs etc and public transportation is horrible. They need money for cars. That's was where I thought basic income would help. A computer, car and decent clothes

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Exactly. There's no shortage of jobs and labor needs. Imo it's cars and info. That population often isn't aware of the opportunities in the burbs etc and public transportation is horrible. They need money for cars. That's was where I thought basic income would help

I've thought about this and how much of it has to do with wages?

$20 a hour now isn't $20 a hour 10 year ago or 20 years ago. That use to be decent money and now that barely gets you a decent apartment.

The dollar doesn't get you what it use to these days. A lot of my single friends are getting a second job just to get by, so they can live comfortably.

There are a few reasons for this now. More and more people are in business for themselves, meaning Etsy or online businesses, steaming services like twitch, onlyfans or YouTube. People have also started doing things like drive exclusively for Uber and Uber eats. I was talking to a driver in Chicago a couple weeks ago who says he makes over 1k a week doing it.

There are so many avenues for people to make money now that people don't have to go and clock in for a 9-5 with the way wages are now that I think is also contributing to our situation.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Again the difference is dems act they care, they don't, while the GOP doesn't even pretend.

I’m calling bullshit on this. W tried to promote stable families with fathers in the picture and he was laughed at. Trump pushed educational reform and was excoriated for hating teachers. Trump got through meaningful criminal justice reform.

The Democrats keep on by making ineffective programs bigger and screaming about taxing the rich all while causing urban chaos by defunding and diminishing law enforcement and accountability for criminal conduct. The Democrats have no intention of making Black lives matter or better. They just want Black votes.