Just watched John Bolton on Frontline

[DrHoops]

I disagree with him on almost every policy idea, but he is a smart motherfuc&er. He definitely thinks Trump is a complete idiot…like in every, single, way. He has no understanding of policy. He said he surrounded himself with 5th rate advisors. He didn’t even vote for Trump.

Before anyone says this is TDS, he despises Dems too.



He basically says Trump wanted to be a Putin, Kim, or any other authoritarian leader. Trump had zero idea of how government even works.

 

[sglowrider]

I disagree with him on almost every policy idea, but he is a smart motherfuc&er. He definitely thinks Trump is a complete idiot…like in every, single, way. He has no understanding of policy. He said he surrounded himself with 5th rate advisors. He didn’t even vote for Trump.

Before anyone says this is TDS, he despises Dems too.

View embedded media

He basically says Trump wanted to be a Putin, Kim, or any other authoritarian leader. Trump had zero idea of how government even works.

 

[DrHoops]

 

[DrHoops]

John Bolton Is Telling the Truth, but Let’s Not Forget His Horrible, Dangerous Career

John Bolton is telling the truth in his new memoir, but let’s not forget his horrible, dangerous career.

theintercept.com

"whatever the merits of Bolton’s new book, it’s important to remember that he is no truth-telling hero. Here’s a short list of just some of his dreadful actions over his long and destructive career."

• Bolton strenuously supported the Vietnam War, but just as strenuously opposed the idea of him personally having to fight it. Before graduating from Yale, he enlisted in the Maryland National Guard to be sure he avoided combat. He later explained, “I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy,” suggesting that he was generously providing an opportunity for someone who did want to die like that. Bolton shortly went on to intern for Vice President Spiro Agnew.
• Perhaps Bolton’s most powerful impact on U.S. politics is the oldest and least-known: his role as a baby right-wing lawyer destroying post-Watergate campaign finance reforms. In Bolton’s memoir, he writes proudly of his efforts on the lawsuit Buckley v. Valeo, which resulted in a 1976 Supreme Court decision that was more important than Citizens United. The ruling struck down limits on campaign finance expenditures and self-funding by super-rich candidates. As Bolton explains, “Everyone knew the decision in Buckley v. Valeo could determine … the future shape of American politics.” He was right. Without Buckley v. Valeo, Donald Trump would never have been able to spend tens of millions of dollars of his own money to get elected and then hire Bolton.
• Bolton held many different positions in the Reagan administration in the 1980s. One administration obsession was killing international regulations on the marketing of baby formula in countries without clean water. A subordinate later wrote that when she refused to help with this project, Bolton “shouted that Nestlé was an important company and that he was giving me a direct order from President Reagan.” He then tried to fire the subordinate, and when he couldn’t, had her moved into a basement office.
• Bolton joined the George W. Bush administration as an undersecretary of state for arms control. In 2002, he declared that Cuba had a limited offensive biological weapons program. When a State Department analyst disputed stronger language in an earlier draft of the speech, Bolton characteristically tried to have the analyst fired.
• That same year Bolton did succeed in getting Brazilian diplomat leader José Bustani ousted from his position as head of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. “We know where your kids live,” Bolton told Bustani when first attempting to get him to quit. “You have two sons in New York.” Bustani’s sin was persuading Iraq to sign the international chemical weapons ban treaty. This in turn would have led to intrusive OPCW inspections, which would have demonstrated that Iraq didn’t have anything. This would have been, from Bolton’s perspective, the worst outcome possible, since it would have made it more difficult for the U.S. to attack Iraq.
• In 2015, Bolton wrote an op-ed for the New York Times headlined, “To Stop Iran’s Bomb, Bomb Iran.” It was riddled with Bolton’s characteristic falsehoods, all to make the case for unprovoked war.
• Just before Trump brought Bolton into his administration in 2018, Bolton wrote an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal calling for yet another unprovoked war, this time with North Korea. In it, Bolton argued that presidents should now be able to ignore the war powers clause of the Constitution, which reserves the right to declare war to Congress, and attack other countries whenever they feel like it.

This barely scratches the surface of Bolton’s lifelong hard-right crusade. In particular, it will likely be years before we have a full accounting of his actions as national security adviser. But in a certain sense, Bolton’s expulsion from the Trump administration demonstrates just how successful he’s been. Like many extremist revolutionaries, he triumphed and then found that the people who eventually seized power in the chaos didn’t share his agenda, and finally decided that he himself had to be purged.

 

[DrHoops]

Total chicken hawk. Classic. Send someone else's kid to the jungle!

 

[DrHoops]

The thing is, though, even though Bolton is a complete lunatic, it actually made me comfortable knowing SOMEONE was smart in that admin and how the government works.

The video is very good.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Trump had zero idea of how government even works.

Hyperbole for sure but I get the basic point, Trump doesn’t know how government works. That is mostly a good thing. Government is steeped in bureaucracy, in established paths of influence, in unaccountability and no responsibility, and in legal bribery. Political support has become a commodity officials who know how government works purchase from the public. . The problem with Trump was that the usual influence peddlers and rent seekers had no traction with him. He used alternatives.

We need more like Trump, but we don’t need Trump. He served a, useful purpose and he can’t advance the ball any further. In fact he is losing ground through a series of unforced errors. Now it’s time to turn over the reins to another.

 

[outside shooter]

...Now it’s time to turn over the reins to another.

Congratulations on escaping the cult! Are you on a 12 step program?

 

[DrHoops]

Hyperbole for sure but I get the basic point, Trump doesn’t know how government works. That is mostly a good thing. Government is steeped in bureaucracy, in established paths of influence, in unaccountability and no responsibility, and in legal bribery. Political support has become a commodity officials who know how government works purchase from the public. . The problem with Trump was that the usual influence peddlers and rent seekers had no traction with him. He used alternatives.

We need more like Trump, but we don’t need Trump. He served a, useful purpose and he can’t advance the ball any further. In fact he is losing ground through a series of unforced errors. Now it’s time to turn over the reins to another.

It is definitely not a good thing. It’s an embarrassment. If you are going to be the most powerful man on Earth, you better damned well understand your job description

 

[hoot1]

Hyperbole for sure but I get the basic point, Trump doesn’t know how government works. That is mostly a good thing. Government is steeped in bureaucracy, in established paths of influence, in unaccountability and no responsibility, and in legal bribery. Political support has become a commodity officials who know how government works purchase from the public. . The problem with Trump was that the usual influence peddlers and rent seekers had no traction with him. He used alternatives.

We need more like Trump, but we don’t need Trump. He served a, useful purpose and he can’t advance the ball any further. In fact he is losing ground through a series of unforced errors. Now it’s time to turn over the reins to another.

After reading "The Room Where It Happened" my impression of Trump changed in one important aspect.

My impression had been that Trump had strong opinions and held onto them stubbornly. Contrary to this Bolton described several instances were Bolton and Trump agreed to a course of action only to have Trump go in another direction after listening to someone else.

Bolton, of course, thinks he is always right. He decided as an advisor his advice was not being given the respect it deserved.

 

[DrHoops]

After reading "The Room Where It Happened" my impression of Trump changed in one important aspect.

My impression had been that Trump had strong opinions and held onto them stubbornly. Contrary to this Bolton described several instances were Bolton and Trump agreed to a course of action only to have Trump go in another direction after listening to someone else.

Bolton, of course, thinks he is always right. He decided as an advisor his advice was not being given the respect it deserved.

This again is what Bolton said. Trump chased off all the competent advisers by the end of his term. I haven’t read the book yet, but Bolton is a far, far, right winger. If he thinks these things, something was WAY, WAY off in the Trump Administration.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

It is definitely not a good thing. It’s an embarrassment. If you are going to be the most powerful man on Earth, you better damned well understand your job description

The job description the Presidency has morphed into is not good. We definitely need to walk that back to Ike’s days.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

This again is what Bolton said. Trump chased off all the competent advisers by the end of his term. I haven’t read the book yet, but Bolton is a far, far, right winger. If he thinks these things, something was WAY, WAY off in the Trump Administration.

Trump isn’t a right winger. Maybe that’s Bolten’s problem with him.

 

[hoot1]

Trump isn’t a right winger. Maybe that’s Bolten’s problem with him.

In reading Bolton's advice to Trump my quasi liberal opinions leaned in the direction of following Peter Navarro, Mike Pompeo, and Steve Mnuchin.

Apparently Trump often took their advice to the dismay of Bolton.

IMO, if during the campaign Trump had allowed Pompeo, Navarro, and Mnuchin to play a big role in recapping the policy progress of the administration across the country, Trump may have been reelected. instead Trump made it all about himself and refused to give up the limelight. Reminded me of Gore not wanting Clinton to upstage him in 2000.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

This again is what Bolton said. Trump chased off all the competent advisers by the end of his term. I haven’t read the book yet, but Bolton is a far, far, right winger. If he thinks these things, something was WAY, WAY off in the Trump Administration.

I don’t know which is worse, running people off or not running people off. The list of those who should be long gone from the Biden administration is a long one.

 

[hoot1]

I don’t know which is worse, running people off or not running people off. The list of those who should be long gone from the Biden administration is a long one.

Why drag Biden into this discussion ?

Some of us are still trying to sort out the pluses and minuses of the Trump administration.

CoH, interested in your take on how Bolton fit and didn't fit in the policy decisions. Decisions which you have gone on record here at The Cooler of generally supporting.

 

[UncleMark]

Why drag Biden into this discussion ?

Some of us are still trying to sort out the pluses and minuses of the Trump administration.

This should be good.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Why drag Biden into this discussion ?

Some of us are still trying to sort out the pluses and minuses of the Trump administration.

CoH, interested in your take on how Bolton fit and didn't fit in the policy decisions. Decisions which you have gone on record here at The Cooler of generally supporting.

I think any working relationship between Bolton and Trump was doomed to failure regardless of how much they might agree about policy. Their temperment was the same, any slight disagreement brought instant rebuke and public abuse. I have no idea why Trump bought Bolton on board. As it turned out they abuse each other in public ways.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

In reading Bolton's advice to Trump my quasi liberal opinions leaned in the direction of following Peter Navarro, Mike Pompeo, and Steve Mnuchin.

Apparently Trump often took their advice to the dismay of Bolton.

IMO, if during the campaign Trump had allowed Pompeo, Navarro, and Mnuchin to play a big role in recapping the policy progress of the administration across the country, Trump may have been reelected. instead Trump made it all about himself and refused to give up the limelight. Reminded me of Gore not wanting Clinton to upstage him in 2000.

From what I've seen from Bolton, he's an arrogant prick who always thinks he's right about everything, and won't even entertain the idea that someone he disagrees with might have something to offer. That said, I also get the impression that he's informed and engaged on the issues that he cares about. So even if you think he's a lunatic on a certain point, you can't argue that he doesn't understand the issue.

Trump's also arrogant, but Bolton seems to suggest - as others have - that he doesn't really understand much of anything, or really even care to. That's bound to rub a guy like Bolton the wrong way. Especially when he couldn't even count on him to play the role of useful idiot, always bringing with him the danger, as you point out, that he might change his mind the second Bolton leaves the room.

 

[DANC]

This again is what Bolton said. Trump chased off all the competent advisers by the end of his term. I haven’t read the book yet, but Bolton is a far, far, right winger. If he thinks these things, something was WAY, WAY off in the Trump Administration.

It's something you and the other dupes have never understood - Trump is no right winger.

He's a populist. But you lump every non-leftwing lunatic as 'right wing'.

 

[twenty02]

Hyperbole for sure but I get the basic point, Trump doesn’t know how government works. That is mostly a good thing. Government is steeped in bureaucracy, in established paths of influence, in unaccountability and no responsibility, and in legal bribery. Political support has become a commodity officials who know how government works purchase from the public. . The problem with Trump was that the usual influence peddlers and rent seekers had no traction with him. He used alternatives.

We need more like Trump, but we don’t need Trump. He served a, useful purpose and he can’t advance the ball any further. In fact he is losing ground through a series of unforced errors. Now it’s time to turn over the reins to another.

At least we're all coming around to the realization that Trump has no future in US politics. Wonder when they'll get the memo in Mar-a-lago and Bedminster?

The problem of course is Trump ain't ever turning the ball over to anyone.... he'd prefer to burn everything down. If he fails to get the nomination again, can you imagine how badly he'll work to see the GOP candidate lose....ala Georgia Special elections?

 

[bailey777]

I disagree with him on almost every policy idea, but he is a smart motherfuc&er. He definitely thinks Trump is a complete idiot…like in every, single, way. He has no understanding of policy. He said he surrounded himself with 5th rate advisors. He didn’t even vote for Trump.

Before anyone says this is TDS, he despises Dems too.

View embedded media

He basically says Trump wanted to be a Putin, Kim, or any other authoritarian leader. Trump had zero idea of how government even works.

Wow shocking a neocon bush warmonger does not like Trump. I have no idea why Trump hired this idiot but if Trump had gotten us into a war he would have loved Trump. And of course he did not vote for Trump he is a counry club Bush neocon.

 

[bailey777]

At least we're all coming around to the realization that Trump has no future in US politics. Wonder when they'll get the memo in Mar-a-lago and Bedminster?

The problem of course is Trump ain't ever turning the ball over to anyone.... he'd prefer to burn everything down. If he fails to get the nomination again, can you imagine how badly he'll work to see the GOP candidate lose....ala Georgia Special elections?

Who is we a few guys on the water cooler? LOl there is a real world outside of water cooler that would disagree with you but would actually mean coming outside your libble bubble to try and unstand others. I always laugh when people who hate Trump talk like everyone else thinks like them.

 

[Bill4411]

It is definitely not a good thing. It’s an embarrassment. If you are going to be the most powerful man on Earth, you better damned well understand your job description

Zelensky never held political office until he became the president of Ukraine, so sometimes it works because the members of "administrations" were terrible presidents for Ukraine.

 

[hoot1]

I think any working relationship between Bolton and Trump was doomed to failure regardless of how much they might agree about policy. Their temperment was the same, any slight disagreement brought instant rebuke and public abuse. I have no idea why Trump bought Bolton on board. As it turned out they abuse each other in public ways.

CoH, also wondering why Trump brought Bolton on board. Suspect Trump asked himself the same question after the Bolton book was published.

People often have a different persona in private as compared to the way they appear in public. Have read accounts about Bolton being a charming witty and likable guy. In the book Bolton writes about having a cordial relationship with Trump which usually ended up with them agreeing. Bolton, however, became frustrated when Trump would then go in another direction.

 

[Bligedy]

I disagree with him on almost every policy idea, but he is a smart motherfuc&er. He definitely thinks Trump is a complete idiot…like in every, single, way. He has no understanding of policy. He said he surrounded himself with 5th rate advisors. He didn’t even vote for Trump.

Before anyone says this is TDS, he despises Dems too.

View embedded media

He basically says Trump wanted to be a Putin, Kim, or any other authoritarian leader. Trump had zero idea of how government even works.

Pretty reasonable interview, honestly.

 

[larsIU]

you better damned well understand your job description

Totally off topic, but I looked at my job description the other day as part of project to update them throughout the company (in response to COVID induced job market changes, i.e. people never wanted to take off their pajamas and actually go to work syndrome).

It was hilarious. I don't do any of that. It has to be over 5 years old without any update.

PS. I really don't care about job descriptions and if anybody every throws one in my face I'm going Lou Brown on them.

 

[vesuvius13]

I think any working relationship between Bolton and Trump was doomed to failure regardless of how much they might agree about policy. Their temperment was the same, any slight disagreement brought instant rebuke and public abuse. I have no idea why Trump bought Bolton on board. As it turned out they abuse each other in public ways.

When Bolton was added to the Trump administration it was doomed to fail as Bolton didn't understand the Republican Party was changing to reflect working people more rather than the elite. Bolton was a sign that Trump didn't recognize a problem before it happened.

 

[UncleMark]

When Bolton was added to the Trump administration it was doomed to fail as Bolton didn't understand the Republican Party was changing to reflect working people more rather than the elite. Bolton was a sign that Trump didn't recognize a problem before it happened.

What is the working people (vs. elite) approach to foreign policy?

 

[DANC]

What is the working people (vs. elite) approach to foreign policy?

Well, working people are the ones dying in our wars. The elite don't.

You're a smart guy - figure it out.

 

[UncleMark]

Well, working people are the ones dying in our wars. The elite don't.

You're a smart guy - figure it out.

That's always been the case, hasn't it? But it has always seemed like our recent foreign adventures (Vietnam, Iraq) were strongly supported by the working class while the elites were the ones questioning or protesting them. What has changed?

 

[DANC]

That's always been the case, hasn't it? But it has always seemed like our recent foreign adventures (Vietnam, Iraq) were strongly supported by the working class while the elites were the ones questioning or protesting them. What has changed?

What elites protested us getting into Vietnam? Kennedy and Johnson Defense boys were the 'best and the brightest'. The 'elites' only protested VN when their sons were subject to the draft lottery and no college deferments.

What 'elites' were against the Iraq war?