IU is no longer an elite basketball school. Change my mind.

[go_iu]

Yep Davis would have done fine at IU that was really stupid, plus he’s a freaking great Christian dude.

He was ready to coach at the level, but could not recruit at the level. That was the problem, he couldn't get the in-state talent. Conley/Oden/Sean May pretty much sealed his fate.

 

[go_iu]

How many 16-17 year old kids (when you begin recruiting them) care or even know of RMK's legacy here and what was a great and feared program? Sure 5 banners, the first one 80 years ago.

Merchandise

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Most elite basketball programs are simply the product of a single coach:

IU and Knight
Syracuse and Boeheim
UConn and Calhoun
Duke and Coach K
Michigan State and Izzo
Villanova and Wright
UVA and Bennett.

Only a few blue bloods can maintain eliteness across several coaches:

Kansas - Brown, Williams, Self
UNC - Smith, Williams
Kentucky - Rupp, Smith, Calipari
UCLA - Wooden, Harrick

You'll notice that even these blue bloods will struggle from time to time with the wrong coach. Kentucky had Gillespie. UNC had Matt Doherty. UCLA had Lavin and Alford.

This evidence should lead us to believe that coaching is paramount to college bball success. UNC on the jersey means nothing when Matt Doherty is coaching. Indiana on the jersey means nothing when clappy CTC is coaching. Coaching hires, then, are the critical decision points that determine whether a program will be elite or not.

But elite coaches don't grow on trees. IU is now struggling with middling coaches like CTC and CAM. Much like UConn could not find another elite coach, and is now a bottom feeder, so too is IU a bottom feeder, not having found an elite coach.

Therefore, IU basketball is no longer an elite program. Change my mind.

You forgot McCracken. He was elite even in today’s standards.

 

[go_iu]

Yep Davis would have done fine at IU that was really stupid, plus he’s a freaking great Christian dude.

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? Not the greatest offensive X/O guy, but he did preach defense, and I don't care about his religious beliefs, but he did believe in D, and was a players coach.

I'd take him back at the moment, I think he produced better results than CAM for a whopping $425K, and with less honeymoon, just to put things in perspective.

 

[victorbear]

He was ready to coach at the level, but could not recruit at the level. That was the problem, he couldn't get the in-state talent. Conley/Oden/Sean May pretty much sealed his fate.

That or he wouldn’t cheat!!!

 

[victorbear]

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? Not the greatest offensive X/O guy, but he did preach defense, and I don't care about his religious beliefs, but he did believe in D, and was a players coach.

I'd take him back at the moment, I think he produced better results than CAM for a whopping $425K, and with less honeymoon, just to put things in perspective.

No it’s not Sarcasm I think he would have done really well by now

 

[Ladoga]

Chris Beard
Big 12
Record 71–30
Annual salary $3.175 million
Biographical details
Alma mater University of Texas at Austin
Abilene Christian University
Coaching career (HC unless noted)
1991–1995 Texas (assistant)
1995–1996 Incarnate Word (assistant)
1996–1997 Abilene Christian (assistant)
1997–1999 North Texas (assistant)
1999–2000 Fort Scott CC
2000–2001 Seminole State JC
2001–2011 Texas Tech (assoc. HC)
2011–2012 South Carolina Warriors
2012–2013 McMurry
2013–2015 Angelo State
2015–2016 Little Rock
2016–present Texas Tech
Head coaching record
Overall 167–60 (college)
44–18 (junior college)
Tournaments 5–2 (NCAA Division I)
2–1 (NCAA Division II)
Accomplishments and honors
Championships
Big 12 regular season (2019)
Sun Belt regular season (2016)
Sun Belt Tournament (2016)
Awards
2× Big 12 Coach of the Year (2018, 2019)
Sun Belt Coach of the Year (2016)
Lone Star Coach of the Year (2015)

He's at his destination job. IU couldn't hire him EVEN IF our job was open.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Greenspan hired Crean.

Greenspan gets a lot of undeserved heat, IMO.
The guy had to put up with more political bullshit at IU than most.
Crean was actually way down his list of candidates. He was probably one of the few coaches willing to jump in that frying pan at the time and Greenspan was a puppet of the guy above him, Herbert.

You talk about a true dichotomy between Herbert and McRobbie!

Herbert had to have his hands in everything. Crocodile Dundee doesn’t want a thing to do with sports. He may actually be Peg Brand in disguise.

 

[hgdownunder]

Why should fans trust an AD who hired and wanted to keep Crean? Freddy is not to be trusted. Trust is earned.

Glass did not hire Crean. Extend him, yes, but hiring was Greenspan.

 

[hgdownunder]

Greenspan gets a lot of undeserved heat, IMO.
The guy had to put up with more political bullshit at IU than most.
Crean was actually way down his list of candidates. He was probably one of the few coaches willing to jump in that frying pan at the time and Greenspan was a puppet of the guy above him, Herbert.

It seemed like everyone was turning us down back then, though “officially” no one did.

 

[victorbear]

Chris Beard
Big 12
Record 71–30
Annual salary $3.175 million
Biographical details
Alma mater University of Texas at Austin
Abilene Christian University
Coaching career (HC unless noted)
1991–1995 Texas (assistant)
1995–1996 Incarnate Word (assistant)
1996–1997 Abilene Christian (assistant)
1997–1999 North Texas (assistant)
1999–2000 Fort Scott CC
2000–2001 Seminole State JC
2001–2011 Texas Tech (assoc. HC)
2011–2012 South Carolina Warriors
2012–2013 McMurry
2013–2015 Angelo State
2015–2016 Little Rock
2016–present Texas Tech
Head coaching record
Overall 167–60 (college)
44–18 (junior college)
Tournaments 5–2 (NCAA Division I)
2–1 (NCAA Division II)
Accomplishments and honors
Championships
Big 12 regular season (2019)
Sun Belt regular season (2016)
Sun Belt Tournament (2016)
Awards
2× Big 12 Coach of the Year (2018, 2019)
Sun Belt Coach of the Year (2016)
Lone Star Coach of the Year (2015)

He's at his destination job. IU couldn't hire him EVEN IF our job was open.

Huh? Texas Tech is not a destination job good lord

 

[IUgradman]

Greenspan gets a lot of undeserved heat, IMO.
The guy had to put up with more political bullshit at IU than most.
Crean was actually way down his list of candidates. He was probably one of the few coaches willing to jump in that frying pan at the time and Greenspan was a puppet of the guy above him, Herbert.

You talk about a true dichotomy between Herbert and McRobbie!

Herbert had to have his hands in everything. Crocodile Dundee doesn’t want a thing to do with sports. He may actually be Peg Brand in disguise.

Greenspan wanted Beilein but IU wouldn’t give him the money to buy out John’s contract. Greenspan also hired Hep who was a good, proven coach. Rick was a far better AD than Cool Dad, and he had far fewer resources at his disposal.

 

[Ladoga]

Huh? Texas Tech is not a destination job good lord

It certainly is for Beard. His daughters live nearby. They grew up there while he was 10 years an assistant under RMK and Pat Knight. After he took Little Rock to the 8 he was hired by UNLV. He was there 3 weeks when Texas Tech called. He resigned at UNLV and took the Tech job. You think its not HIS destination job? Think again.

 

[victorbear]

It certainly is for Beard. His daughters live nearby. They grew up there while he was 10 years an assistant under RMK and Pat Knight. After he took Little Rock to the 8 he was hired by UNLV. He was there 3 weeks when Texas Tech called. He resigned at UNLV and took the Tech job. You think its not HIS destination job? Think again.

Whatever

 

[snarlcakes]

Whatever

You didn’t hear? Ladoga is a mind reader. He posted the same nonsense to me a couple of weeks ago

 

[Rakkasan29]

Ou

Heh heh heh...you're not too bright, are you...?

 

[Ladoga]

You didn’t hear? Ladoga is a mind reader. He posted the same nonsense to me a couple of weeks ago

Tell me, please. If the IU job came open and if you were a coach of Beard's caliber holding his exact job in his exact situation - family, background - and IU called, would you consider an offer from IU?

 

[snarlcakes]

Tell me, please. If the IU job came open and if you were a coach of Beard's caliber holding his exact job in his exact situation - family, background - and IU called, would you consider an offer from IU?

If my objective was to win a national title and have the best career possible, yes, I would consider it. IU is a much better program than TT and gives coaches a much better opportunity to win titles and etc. My issue with your posts are you claim things you do not know.

 

[coachv jr]

You are right. If Assembly Hall is only a third full or two thirds empty they will finally do something. It's all about the money. Basketball is the cash cow.

i think we're ok if assembly hall is a third full, but if it get to the point where it's two thirds empty we have a problem

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Do we really want to add up the number of posters who have called you an idiot (or any synonym) versus the ones who have done the same to me? Really?

Echo chamber my friend.... you are screaming into a cave expecting to hear something different ... that’s the problem with the WC.... it’s an echo chamber of like thinking people agreeing with each other

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

My Dad used to say that it was the fans fault the Cubs weren't very good. He said, "son, they put 2 million people in those seats a year even if they only win 60 games".

Ohhhhhh...That’s a bingo!!!!

But but but we are a University..... talk about head in the sand

 

[mcmurtry66]

The idea that IU isn’t elite is absurd. It’s excuse making for poor coaches. Archie has been lousy. IU is an elite program who have made poor hiring decisions - including the AD. And for all the talk about valuing academics over athletics the president of iu hasn’t done much either. IU is at the bottom of the big ten in most academic rankings. And one can say they don’t matter, but ask parents looking at schools for their kids if they matter. Rankings like US News create a perception, and perception matters.

Back to hoops. Archie is having to “rebuild” talk is plain silly. This doesn’t require Elon Musk trying to put people on Mars. It’s finding 8 kids in Indiana to be one of the top 68 teams at a program that has won the big ten and been to sweet sixteens in the last decade. It’s also a program with huge fan support, top 5 most valuable, top 5 most social media followers, in a state rich with talent. The excuses for Archie need to stop. This shouldn’t be so hard.

 

[demunn]

Let's be honest, the last team we had that even resembled anything of IU basketball and heart was coached by Mike Davis and as much as most of us (myself included) clamored for his firing, we probably should have rode with it

Seriously? Davis got fired from UAB for not winning, what makes you think he would win here? He got in the tournament a few years coaching in a conference that doesn't even belong in D1.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Let's be honest, the last team we had that even resembled anything of IU basketball and heart was coached by Mike Davis and as much as most of us (myself included) clamored for his firing, we probably should have rode with it

A respectful “you’re nuts” is thrown your way. No way we ride that horse

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Just a slight correction - the NIT was the top post season tournament when iu won their first two NCAA championships. Winning the NCAA at that time was the equivalent of winning the NIT today.

You clowns have this on a banner in the tin pig barn don't you? I know it is printed on your diplomas.

"2,000"
~Hunkgolden

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Actually its 3-1 but all of them were so long ago its not worth discussing.

Lol

I assume you idiots stopped trashing Brooks on Twitter now that he picked UK?

"2,000"

~Hunkgolden

 

[EarlTubbs]

I do not know the posters here, but you are very close to getting this right with that post. The puppeteers behind the curtain have their very own club. They call the shots. You never see their names. Bob Knight was more powerful than they were. They hated him for that and they also were snowflakes, knowing virtually nothing about coaching or intellectual brilliance in coaching but they hated him for his public demeanor and the absence of his willingness to bow to them so they wanted a reason to get rid of him. At that time, the largest contributor to the university was a little lady in her 80s who barely knew there was an IU basketball team.

In any event, the happenings quite a few years before RMK was fired and, though perhaps to a lesser degree, to this day, turn on the public face of the university and the mystery people behind the scenes being unable or unwilling to support anything that might offend the sensibilities of the invisible leadership cloistered in the curtained parlors of the deepest recesses of the university. RMK was on the verge of reinventing the game and they had to find a reason to take him out or he was going to reclaim the power they so hated and hate today (though some of the names have changed).

The current operation is controlled by a group of timid insiders (timid about having anything embarass them or IU) who clap one another on the back in congratulations for the wonder that is IU and will make darned sure that the power never again escapes them. They want very good teams. They want to have some bragging rights, but they do not want the program to be more powerful than their group is. They sure do not have the personal makeup to abide a personality like Bob Knight. Remember, they brought RMK in from Army to establish discipline in a program that was on the precipice of NCAA punishment for the alumni shenanigans that had been going on for a while - think paying recruits and $100 handshakes in the locker room. Knight came in and threw those people out and kept them away from the program. They also hated that. They didn't know f he could coach. Army wasn't much. But they knew he'd get the NCAA off their back.

Cool story, broham.

 

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Most elite basketball programs are simply the product of a single coach:

IU and Knight
Syracuse and Boeheim
UConn and Calhoun
Duke and Coach K
Michigan State and Izzo
Villanova and Wright
UVA and Bennett.

Only a few blue bloods can maintain eliteness across several coaches:

Kansas - Brown, Williams, Self
UNC - Smith, Williams
Kentucky - Rupp, Smith, Calipari
UCLA - Wooden, Harrick

You'll notice that even these blue bloods will struggle from time to time with the wrong coach. Kentucky had Gillespie. UNC had Matt Doherty. UCLA had Lavin and Alford.

This evidence should lead us to believe that coaching is paramount to college bball success. UNC on the jersey means nothing when Matt Doherty is coaching. Indiana on the jersey means nothing when clappy CTC is coaching. Coaching hires, then, are the critical decision points that determine whether a program will be elite or not.

But elite coaches don't grow on trees. IU is now struggling with middling coaches like CTC and CAM. Much like UConn could not find another elite coach, and is now a bottom feeder, so too is IU a bottom feeder, not having found an elite coach.

Therefore, IU basketball is no longer an elite program. Change my mind.

Romeo still has a chance to ignite the program into eliteness if IU can make a NIT run. He needs a couple of signature games to get to legendary status, imo.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Romeo still has a chance to ignite the program into eliteness if IU can make a NIT run. He needs a couple of signature games to get to legendary status, imo.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Sultan__of__Swine]

Most elite basketball programs are simply the product of a single coach:

IU and Knight
Syracuse and Boeheim
UConn and Calhoun
Duke and Coach K
Michigan State and Izzo
Villanova and Wright
UVA and Bennett.

Only a few blue bloods can maintain eliteness across several coaches:

Kansas - Brown, Williams, Self
UNC - Smith, Williams
Kentucky - Rupp, Smith, Calipari
UCLA - Wooden, Harrick

You'll notice that even these blue bloods will struggle from time to time with the wrong coach. Kentucky had Gillespie. UNC had Matt Doherty. UCLA had Lavin and Alford.

This evidence should lead us to believe that coaching is paramount to college bball success. UNC on the jersey means nothing when Matt Doherty is coaching. Indiana on the jersey means nothing when clappy CTC is coaching. Coaching hires, then, are the critical decision points that determine whether a program will be elite or not.

But elite coaches don't grow on trees. IU is now struggling with middling coaches like CTC and CAM. Much like UConn could not find another elite coach, and is now a bottom feeder, so too is IU a bottom feeder, not having found an elite coach.

Therefore, IU basketball is no longer an elite program. Change my mind.

Forgot Louisville.

Crum and Pitino.

 

[NoVertical]

We get it again...you voted for TRump. Take it to the WC.

Of course, you're too chicken to post over there, because you know even less about politics than basketball (which is mind-blowing), and you know you'll get destroyed over there.

I can't let this one go... The above post was provided by a sock puppet who celebrates baby killing, heterophobia and antisemitism. Well done.

 

[coachv jr]

Romeo still has a chance to ignite the program into eliteness if IU can make a NIT run. He needs a couple of signature games to get to legendary status, imo.

are you being sarcastic?

 

[coachv jr]

Forgot Louisville.

Crum and Pitino.

yeah, and massimino at villanova and a few others

 

[coachv jr]

Facts are facts.

except when they are not, like these

 

[IUHoopster]

Most elite basketball programs are simply the product of a single coach:

IU and Knight
Syracuse and Boeheim
UConn and Calhoun
Duke and Coach K
Michigan State and Izzo
Villanova and Wright
UVA and Bennett.

Only a few blue bloods can maintain eliteness across several coaches:

Kansas - Brown, Williams, Self
UNC - Smith, Williams
Kentucky - Rupp, Smith, Calipari
UCLA - Wooden, Harrick

You'll notice that even these blue bloods will struggle from time to time with the wrong coach. Kentucky had Gillespie. UNC had Matt Doherty. UCLA had Lavin and Alford.

This evidence should lead us to believe that coaching is paramount to college bball success. UNC on the jersey means nothing when Matt Doherty is coaching. Indiana on the jersey means nothing when clappy CTC is coaching. Coaching hires, then, are the critical decision points that determine whether a program will be elite or not.

But elite coaches don't grow on trees. IU is now struggling with middling coaches like CTC and CAM. Much like UConn could not find another elite coach, and is now a bottom feeder, so too is IU a bottom feeder, not having found an elite coach.

Therefore, IU basketball is no longer an elite program. Change my mind.

Elite? IU is NIT Elite! Time to start boasting!

 

[UTFO]

Most elite basketball programs are simply the product of a single coach:

IU and Knight
Syracuse and Boeheim
UConn and Calhoun
Duke and Coach K
Michigan State and Izzo
Villanova and Wright
UVA and Bennett.

Only a few blue bloods can maintain eliteness across several coaches:

Kansas - Brown, Williams, Self
UNC - Smith, Williams
Kentucky - Rupp, Smith, Calipari
UCLA - Wooden, Harrick

You'll notice that even these blue bloods will struggle from time to time with the wrong coach. Kentucky had Gillespie. UNC had Matt Doherty. UCLA had Lavin and Alford.

This evidence should lead us to believe that coaching is paramount to college bball success. UNC on the jersey means nothing when Matt Doherty is coaching. Indiana on the jersey means nothing when clappy CTC is coaching. Coaching hires, then, are the critical decision points that determine whether a program will be elite or not.

But elite coaches don't grow on trees. IU is now struggling with middling coaches like CTC and CAM. Much like UConn could not find another elite coach, and is now a bottom feeder, so too is IU a bottom feeder, not having found an elite coach.

Therefore, IU basketball is no longer an elite program. Change my mind.

We aren't, obviously. No BTT titles. 1 F4 since I graduated in 94.

Sad but true.

 

[Upset Alert]

i think we're ok if assembly hall is a third full, but if it get to the point where it's two thirds empty we have a problem

1/3 full = 2/3 empty

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I think of IU basketball along the lines of Ronco, K-Tel or Casablanca Records.
Names that are recognizable from the past by at least one segment of the population and were “players” in their day but now defunct.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I can't let this one go... The above post was provided by a sock puppet who celebrates baby killing, heterophobia and antisemitism. Well done.

Or someone who thinks:

a) victim cub is an idiot
b) politics belongs on the WC
c) all of the above

 

[coachv jr]

1/3 full = 2/3 empty

nah. that can't be true. if it's 1/3 full how can it be 2/3 empty?