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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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Right. So if you haven't reported it you shouldn't be deciding what a parent should or should not know about their child. That's not a teacher's or administrator's job.
It isn't in schools
- Thread starter IUCrazy2
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I’ve read that and shouldn’t be in an elementary library. Middle school maybe. But she shouldn’t have a book she hasn’t read. Hopefully principals have spoken to all their staff at this point. My books I banned from my kids have references to Santa Claus not being real!! Edit: middle school being 9th grade, not 5th.
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What if it has been reported? And, especially at high school age, sometimes you have to make some tough decisions when kids confide in you.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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If there is real suspicion the parent is abusive (remember these are teenagers: sometimes they lie and sometimes they exaggerate and sometimes they tell the truth) to the point it is reported to CPS, then I think it's a real difficult decision that should be governed by our legislatures.
You know that’s not realistic. Say you have a 16 year old kid who comes to talk to you and asks for books about sexual identity. Said child is struggling at school, has never gotten support from family, and you are suspicious parents might be abusive. I don’t know what confidentiality laws are. If he told a therapist would she have to share with parents? It’s a tough situation, and it probably doesn’t come up too often. But I know some high school teachers who have had to deal with some very tough dilemmas
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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Teachers aren't therapists. There is no privilege there. The vast majority are not trained in, or capable of, dealing with these issues.
I get that it's tough. I really do. But parents should know these things about their kids.
A teacher's "suspicions" about parents being abusive could just be (1) the teacher substituting their value judgments for the parents or (2) the teacher believing the parents aren't supportive enough, as opposed to abusive. The teacher does not have the professional training to make those calls. Your reference to therapists is an apt one--they spend a lot of time and training dealing with their own hang ups, blinders, biases, etc. so that they can (a) recognize their bias, and (b) not let said bias interfere with their treatment and interactions with the patient. Teachers have no such serious training.
These matters should be referred to the school psychologist or social worker, and they should figure out the best way to manage this with the student AND the parents. If a child is struggling with any kind of mental illness or issue--including gender dysphoria--it should be handled by a trained professional in that area.
I don't think either of my kids schools have a school psychologist or social worker.
My 16 year someone for her grade that she can talk to about her grades or if she needs to add or drop a class (the name of the position escapes me right now), but that's all she has to my knowledge.
That's not the school's responsibility.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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Middle School is 6th, 7th, and 8th grade. Most high schools these days are 9th through 12th because of sports.
I realize all this. But until you are in that position, you can’t make the call. Teachers are sometimes the only person a student will trust. And you have to make tough calls And if you feel and the kids tell you what will happen if the parents have that information, then sometimes you make those tough decisions.
There what is? You can opt your child out of the one day of sex education if you’d like. I’m sorry but you live in a suburban bubble, as do many weighing in here. Where the kids live in a nice little family and the parents all know best and always choose the best options for their children.
You think schools have trained professionals in the building? Many of those professionals have been cut due to budget constraints long ago. You think a student who has confided only in a teacher is going to open up to someone they’ve never met before? Are you considering homosexuality a mental illness? I’m not talking about a teacher who suspects abuse, I’m talking about a teacher who knows abuse. You want to make it black and white. It rarely is.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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If the teacher “knows” abuse, they are legally required to report it. And should.
No, I do not consider homosexuality a mental illness.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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If the schools don’t have trained professionals available (they don’t have to be in the building every day, obviously, if the school doesn’t require it), then they should and I would strongly push for that. It’s extremely important.
It should be up to the schools to have people who can recognize abuse and report it. Period. They should not be counselors to the student, as tempting as that is. That's just shouldn't be the responsibility of the schools.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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Teachers and staff are mandatory reporters for child abuse. Federal law now requires is, I believe, and most state laws do as well.
Regarding counseling for the students, having school psychologists and/or social workers is important. Some kids need those services in order to correctly function in order to learn.
We allow school nurses to make sure a kid is physically OK to learn, and gets their meds, etc., why should we treat mental health any differently?
They are, mine has Intermediate (5th and 6th) and then Junior High (7th and 8th) but the 9th through 12th graders are in HS. In Indiana, because of sports, you will rarely find 9th graders still with 7th and 8th graders unless you have a combined school that runs from 7th to 12th.
I have all sorts of social commentary related to that growth since the 50's but will save it for another time. However, the growth of the administrative positions in schools has exploded over the past 70 years. If budget cuts are hitting schools it sure as hell isn't at that level. We have enough money to pay a "DEI" director over $80k a year in my district.
How did the education system ever function before schools became social welfare centers?
EDIT: I have no problem with having licensed mental health experts on staff at schools. But too often, non-licensed teachers try to take on that role and they are not qualified.
So your in favor of letting parents parent? What a novel idea, how did you come up with that? DWS
I agree, my Mom taught for 35 years and once it became apparent that schools becoming less empowered to actually teach and discipline kids she retired at 58. Why anyone would want to be a teacher is beyond me, I talked my daughter out of it and she thanks me all the time, her best friend went on to teach and quit after 2 years.
All the teachers I know just want to teach. The truth is that kids bring baggage that needs to be dealt with. If not, learning environments become harder and harder to maintain. DANC and others like to say the schools shouldn’t be dealing with certain issues, but somehow, when predictable bad results happen, they get the blame.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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I agree, but teachers need to be able to also discipline and get the kids out of the classroom who are disrupting learning for all the other students. The disrupters need to be counseled, and maybe need extra help, etc. but for teachers to teach, they can't also be providing therapy to the kids in the class (and they aren't qualified to do it).
We're asking too much of teachers and schools and that's the underlying problem behind all of this. We are trying to change society in a way that these institutions were not designed to do, with people who are not trained to do it. You see it with the military and police, too. It used to be, the military was for defending the nation from attacks and going to war to conquer another nation--now too often we expect them to help nation build while serving as an occupying force. Police are meant to deter and stop crime--but now we want them to provide on-the-spot psychological services and act as gateways to other social services.
I agree. Services cost money, though, and you’ve seen on this very thread how some posters feel about spending more money on schools.
I have had multiple opportunities to vote additional taxes on myself in order to get more money to my school district for varying reasons. I have voted yes on every one. Every. One.
I agree that teachers want to teach in most instances. We have had a run of fights in one of the two high schools in my district that hit social media. Came up in the last school board meeting. We have all sorts of rules in the student handbook against fighting. We also have "restorative justice" practiced in the district. Teachers have their hands tied from disciplining and it most instances (where I am at least) that isn't because the majority of parents are against punishment, it is because the administrators are.
96% more students since the 50's. Over 200% more teachers. We have added over 2 teachers for every new student in the US. 700% growth in administrative positions. For every new additional student in this country above the levels in the 50's, we have added 7 administrators. And it is generally those types who are coming up with the nonsense that hurts the other 2.
I agree with you, and was not referring to you. I have read enough of your posts to know that you understand the issue.
Do you think the reason school administrations are so reluctant to discipline is because there are a fraction of parents that are against it? One thing that lead my Mother into retirement was a young male punched a young female in the face several times, she and the AID took him to the Principle where he bit and scratched my Mom until she bled. When his parents were called in they threatened to sue the school system and my Mom for abuse. Sometimes it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.
Restorative Justice Is Unfair to Students Who Want to Learn | Williamson M. Evers
Andrew Pollack, a parent whose daughter was shot in the 2018 Stoneman Douglas High School attack in Florida, spoke to the Republican National Convention on August 24 about the role that restorative justice played in causing local school leaders to ignore the frequent threats from the gunman...
I think the reluctance is based on the above in the article. First, I believe that education is very often impacted by a "flavor of the month" type of mentality, particularly at that administrative level. An idea will catch on like wildfire because people in education really want it to. Like for my district, Lucy Calkins and her terrible approach to reading was the rage. It replaced phonics and was a more equitable way to teach reading. And it was, it drug everyone down to the point where middle school teachers were talking about all the remedial work they had to do with kids these days. The school district finally shitcanned the program this past year because it was finally deemed an utter failure. However, we have a whole group of kids for about 8 to 10 years who were stunted in their academic growth early on while the school tried their fad....
So anyways, with discipline the old but new again fad is restorative justice. More black and Hispanic kids were being suspended or expelled so obviously the way we chose to punish kids was racist. So the Obama administration came along with their "Dear Colleagues" junk and now you can't suspend or expel kids for extremely poor behavior anymore. They get a real stern talking to....like the kid at Marjorie Stone Douglas got before he murdered his classmates.
In your Mother's case, that is horrible. Personally for me that is a move the kid out of school situation and if the parents want to sue, go ahead. I grew up in Fort Wayne. We had ALP when I was growing up. If you were a kid that was a consistently disruptive force in schools, you got sent to the Alterantive Learning Program. We still had in school suspension. Regular suspension.
Much of the issues in schools today is related to race and education's embrace of the "anti-racism" (misnomer), social justice, etc. approach to just about everything. (In my opinion that a bunch of people will disagree with but not be able to offer much of anything supporting any of that garbage works.)
You and I must have grown up in the same era. We had an alternative school we were sent to if we acted in a manner that was consistently disruptive to others, as well as having in school suspension and after school suspension. Administrators seem to be next big thing or like you said "flavor of the month".Restorative Justice Is Unfair to Students Who Want to Learn | Williamson M. Evers
Andrew Pollack, a parent whose daughter was shot in the 2018 Stoneman Douglas High School attack in Florida, spoke to the Republican National Convention on August 24 about the role that restorative justice played in causing local school leaders to ignore the frequent threats from the gunman...www.independent.org
I think the reluctance is based on the above in the article. First, I believe that education is very often impacted by a "flavor of the month" type of mentality, particularly at that administrative level. An idea will catch on like wildfire because people in education really want it to. Like for my district, Lucy Calkins and her terrible approach to reading was the rage. It replaced phonics and was a more equitable way to teach reading. And it was, it drug everyone down to the point where middle school teachers were talking about all the remedial work they had to do with kids these days. The school district finally shitcanned the program this past year because it was finally deemed an utter failure. However, we have a whole group of kids for about 8 to 10 years who were stunted in their academic growth early on while the school tried their fad....
So anyways, with discipline the old but new again fad is restorative justice. More black and Hispanic kids were being suspended or expelled so obviously the way we chose to punish kids was racist. So the Obama administration came along with their "Dear Colleagues" junk and now you can't suspend or expel kids for extremely poor behavior anymore. They get a real stern talking to....like the kid at Marjorie Stone Douglas got before he murdered his classmates.
In your Mother's case, that is horrible. Personally for me that is a move the kid out of school situation and if the parents want to sue, go ahead. I grew up in Fort Wayne. We had ALP when I was growing up. If you were a kid that was a consistently disruptive force in schools, you got sent to the Alterantive Learning Program. We still had in school suspension. Regular suspension.
Much of the issues in schools today is related to race and education's embrace of the "anti-racism" (misnomer), social justice, etc. approach to just about everything. (In my opinion that a bunch of people will disagree with but not be able to offer much of anything supporting any of that garbage works.)
One thing that is probably missing these days is the fear of going home with a report that was not favorable. My Father is the best man I know and would do anything for me to this day, but I sure as hell feared him and also respected him (and my Mom) enough to not do things that shed a negative light on them. I know there are many kids that do not have the home life I did and that is the saddest part of it all.
My wife is a teacher. The number one issue is student behavior. It’s disruptive and negatively impacts all students in the class. That’s a parent issue. But that parent issue seems to be one that can’t be touched.
Instead we let Timmy yell out “penis” and walk around the classroom when the teacher is trying to teach. Timmy’s parents say he just doesn’t like to be told what to do. The solution is to allow him to shut down the class for the other 30 kids. It’s maddening.
I agree. I know I’ll hear “ok boomer” but if I got in trouble at school, I got my ass busted when I got home.
There wasn’t any of this looking to blame everyone else.
Kind of off subject, but on subject, my youngest daughter who is in elementary school, we have a app called dojo that we communicate with her teacher through text and she lets us know basically anything from school work that needs done or things to be brought in for a project for the class to do to she forgot her library book and needed someone to bring it to school.
If something behavior wise needs addressed, she would let us know on the app as well so we could handle it then as well. The app has been a great tool because if we need to get in touch with the teacher, or vice versa, it's usually within 30- 1 hour on the weekdays before 8 that we would get in touch with each other.
It's not just for her teacher though. She's been in speech since she was 2 so since the app is hooked up to the whole school, we can talk to her speech therapist if needed or the school nurse if she messages us or whoever from the school. It's super cool.
It's been a life saver, really.
None of us here are probably the target audience for "stop letting your kids do whatever the F they want at school".
Glad you have a way to communicate with the staff. I feel that our sons' teachers have been fairly responsive when we reach out too...particularly those for our student who also has speech (among other things) in his IEP. I think the issue is that there are parents who care so little that an app like you mentioned wouldn't matter, they wouldn't stay in touch anyway.
Sexist, racist and classist: Why the feds are getting involved in school dress codes
An oversight office is urging the Education Department to clue in schools on how dress codes evoke safety and discrimination concerns.
www.usatoday.com
Glad the GAO is focusing time on the important things and getting them completely wrong.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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So, so stupid.Sexist, racist and classist: Why the feds are getting involved in school dress codes
An oversight office is urging the Education Department to clue in schools on how dress codes evoke safety and discrimination concerns.www.usatoday.com
Glad the GAO is focusing time on the important things and getting them completely wrong.
"Although often created in the name of safety, some of these rules can actually jeopardize students' well-being."
and
"While school districts often cite safety as the reason for having a dress code, many dress codes include elements that may make the school environment less equitable and safe for students," the report says.
Exactly how does a dress code make the school environment less safe for students?
Probably the same way math fosters inequalities. These people have completely lost any legitimate arguments they may have had by pushing these absurd positions.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
Cameras in classrooms with mics floated by a cop in this article:
thenewamerican.com
School District Pulls Book That Included Sodomy Scene. Furious Mom Hits School Board - The New American
No sooner did the public-school board in Hudson, Ohio, pull a textbook that the mayor said promoted kiddie porn, than a school board in Austin, Texas, pulled one for about the same reason. In the latest case, the book contained at least one scene involving anal sodomy. That didn’t much please an...
thenewamerican.com
