Israel under attack from Hamas

[CO. Hoosier]

German soldiers never did any of that, are you sure? Here is documentation of midwives drowning infants just after birth.

The fate of children in Auschwitz

Janina Kościuszkowa, MD

www.mp.pl

If you prefer the exact burning comparison:

https://www.nytimes.com/1946/01/29/archives/children-burned-alive-by-germans-woman-testifies-in-nuremberg-on.html

And mass rape was a thing

Sexual Violence in the Holocaust: Perspectives from Ghettos and Camps in Ukraine | Heinrich Böll Stiftung | Kyiv - Ukraine

As historian Raul Hilberg argued, “The road to annihilation was marked by events that specifically affected men as men and women as women.”

www.google.com

I don’t get you at all? If you convince me that Nazis were as bad or worse than Hamas, what do you gain in this discussion? Maybe there Were those in the 1940’s parading around campuses and streets carrying Nazi flags and talking about hate in””context” like the three college presidents did, but I never read about them. Here’s the deal. I think the savagery shown by Hamas is the worse in hundreds of years, and that those who in the slightest degree respond with ‘“context” or “historical underpinnings” are the reasons why this issue drags on. Like the Holocaust , there are not 2 sides here.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I don’t get you at all? If you convince me that Nazis were as bad or worse than Hamas, what do you gain in this discussion? Maybe there Were those in the 1940’s parading around campuses and streets carrying Nazi flags and talking about hate in””context” like the three college presidents did, but I never read about them. Here’s the deal. I think the savagery shown by Hamas is the worse in hundreds of years, and that those who in the slightest degree respond with ‘“context” or “historical underpinnings” are the reasons why this issue drags on. Like the Holocaust , there are not 2 sides here.

Israel is an angel and justified in killing civilians, and Hamas killing a thousand people is worse than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao: great discussion. African Americans were treated worse in America.

 

[BradStevens]

Hitler loaded Jews on trains and took them to extermination sites. Hamas didn’t bother. They exterminated Jews where they found them and did it in a deliberately heinous and unthinkable fashion. Hamas wasn’t satisfied with killing Jews. They did in a manner that inflicted maximum pain, humiliation and terror. They included Jewish infants. This is a product of Gaza.

Defending or even offering excuses for 10/7 is despicable. Rallying in support of this is a tell. You guys are just useful idiots of Jew hating internet influencers situated overseas, and I’m insulting idiots

Hitler’s Nazi regime did far, far more than that CoH. This comparison is ridiculous.

And I despise Hamas.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Hitler’s Nazi regime did far, far more than that CoH. This comparison is ridiculous.

And I despise Hamas.

I’m also looking at the intensity and concentration of the savagery. Hamas and their cohorts in Gaza have no other objective. On a per capita basis, I think Hamas comes out as the worse in centuries. But that is really beside the point.

My central point is that those who find excuses are showing ant-semitism. I don’t think despising Hamas is enough. It must be eradicated in the way Nazis were. That’s a tall order because Palestinian Jew hate seems stronger than the Nazis.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I’m also looking at the intensity and concentration of the savagery. Hamas and their cohorts in Gaza have no other objective. On a per capita basis, I think Hamas comes out as the worse in centuries. But that is really beside the point.

My central point is that those who find excuses are showing ant-semitism. I don’t think despising Hamas is enough. It must be eradicated in the way Nazis were. That’s a tall order because Palestinian Jew hate seems stronger than the Nazis.

No one is finding excuses. People are simply taking issue with your patently ridiculous assertion.

 

[BradStevens]

I’m also looking at the intensity and concentration of the savagery. Hamas and their cohorts in Gaza have no other objective. On a per capita basis, I think Hamas comes out as the worse in centuries. But that is really beside the point.

My central point is that those who find excuses are showing ant-semitism. I don’t think despising Hamas is enough. It must be eradicated in the way Nazis were. That’s a tall order because Palestinian Jew hate seems stronger than the Nazis.

I agree with you that those looking to find excuses for Hamas are morally bankrupt.

I’m not sure this is antisemitism, though. I think it’s religious wokeness re oppressed v oppressor at work. At least by those in the West. The Palestinians are obviously raging antisemites.

Back to your comp, I’ve read and heard German soldiers were disturbed by their mass murdering. Hamas agents and their families appear to be ecstatic and proud of their deeds. It’s another type of horror.

ETA: By the way, if you want yet another comp with far higher counts and just as barbarous behavior, check out the Rwandan genocide.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

The Palestinians are obviously raging antisemite

Israel hates Palestinians just as much, maybe more: just look at the body count and the injustices they have inflicted upon the Palestinians. We will call them Anti-Palestintites. It is ok when Israel does it.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

patently ridiculous assertion.

What is that? That the October 7 barbarism hasn’t been seen for 100’s of years?. I think people like you call that patently ridiculous because you are determined to find fault with Israel, like others have done.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I agree with you that those looking to find excuses for Hamas are morally bankrupt.

I’m not sure this is antisemitism, though. I think it’s religious wokeness re oppressed v oppressor at work. At least by those in the West. The Palestinians are obviously raging antisemites.

Back to your comp, I’ve read and heard German soldiers were disturbed by their mass murdering. Hamas agents and their families appear to be ecstatic and proud of their deeds. It’s another type of horror.

ETA: By the way, if you want yet another comp with far higher counts and just as barbarous behavior, check out the Rwandan genocide.

I thought about Rwanda and that’s a point. But they ended it. Palestinian hate is worsening.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

What is that? That the October 7 barbarism hasn’t been seen for 100’s of years?. I think people like you call that patently ridiculous because you are determined to find fault with Israel, like others have done.

Invincible ignorance, read a f#ing book on the Eastern Front as you are SERIOUSLY lacking in any knowledge of what happened there.

The German army was taught that Russians were subhuman. Russian soldiers were put in POW camps with no structures and the Germans stole their winter gear. Imagine being in an open air camp, on the Steppes, with no winter clothing and roughly 700 calories a day.

If a village was thought to harbor partisans, the entire village was burned down and everyone killed. Rape was totally acceptable, they were subhuman, available for the German masters to do as they please.

If you were a reasonable human you would have said we saw in October a level of barbarism not seen since Germany and Japan (Nanking), and equated them, I would have no problem. Cold blooded murder of men women, children, rape, torture (the Gestapo tortured a hell of a lot of people in very gruesome ways) isn't really subject to gradation. If it is, Germany and Japan get advantages for volume, I doubt there was a day they didn't butcher 1000 people from 1941 on.

I know you see some political gain for this as you don't type a sentence without consideration of political gain. The Germans were total barbarians. Lampshades made of human skin? The Japanese were barbaric to captured populations, to this day there is animosity in Korea. I don't know why you think they were in any way gentlemanly. They burned babies, they tortured, they raped women/girls in front of their families. They actively used people in bizarre "experiments" which were nothing more than carrying out sadism claiming science.

Everything you saw done in October was done, often, on the Eastern Front. The Palestinian savages invented nothing new.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Israel hates Palestinians just as much, maybe more: just look at the body count and the injustices they have inflicted upon the Palestinians. We will call them Anti-Palestintites. It is ok when Israel does it.

Not one Palestinian could even conceive of living in theoretical peace and equality while even some of the most extremely religious Israelis could. There were notable exceptions on the Israeli side, you did get a little more variety but the Palestinians were basically a no. The softest no being the 2 women in the store.

 

[BradStevens]

Invincible ignorance, read a f#ing book on the Eastern Front as you are SERIOUSLY lacking in any knowledge of what happened there.

The German army was taught that Russians were subhuman. Russian soldiers were put in POW camps with no structures and the Germans stole their winter gear. Imagine being in an open air camp, on the Steppes, with no winter clothing and roughly 700 calories a day.

If a village was thought to harbor partisans, the entire village was burned down and everyone killed. Rape was totally acceptable, they were subhuman, available for the German masters to do as they please.

If you were a reasonable human you would have said we saw in October a level of barbarism not seen since Germany and Japan (Nanking), and equated them, I would have no problem. Cold blooded murder of men women, children, rape, torture (the Gestapo tortured a hell of a lot of people in very gruesome ways) isn't really subject to gradation. If it is, Germany and Japan get advantages for volume, I doubt there was a day they didn't butcher 1000 people from 1941 on.

I know you see some political gain for this as you don't type a sentence without consideration of political gain. The Germans were total barbarians. Lampshades made of human skin? The Japanese were barbaric to captured populations, to this day there is animosity in Korea. I don't know why you think they were in any way gentlemanly. They burned babies, they tortured, they raped women/girls in front of their families. They actively used people in bizarre "experiments" which were nothing more than carrying out sadism claiming science.

Everything you saw done in October was done, often, on the Eastern Front. The Palestinian savages invented nothing new.

Marv, I spent time yesterday typing out a similar message with the same examples. Dan Carlin's Ghost of the Ostfront series is awesome and worth the few bucks he charges if you haven't heard it. Supernova in the East also explains a lot of the Japanese culture and psychology that led to them being so fanatical.

A few added details: the Russian response to the German barbarism on the way back towards Berlin and the Fall of Berlin were equally gruesome. Raping, butchering, etc. Re Nanking, soldiers were grabbing babies by one leg and swinging them around and bashing in their heads, while other soldiers were stuffing grenades up women's vaginas, among other things.

Maybe the one thing that is new-ish here is that the Palestinians are supporting said actions and those who committed them appear to be proud of their actions. I'm not sure that was the case in any of these other situations. It makes me question those reports a little, since it seems so contrary to human nature.

In making these comps with the Axis Powers, though, I think it's useful to remember two things: (1) those cultures and nations are now fully functioning democracies with peaceful societies. (2) a lot of bloodletting (of not just their militaries, but their civilian populations, too) and the removal of the fanatics, along with a change in the societies and cultures occurred. I don't know if (2) is required to reach (1) for the Palestinians, but it is reasonable to conclude that it is.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Marv, I spent time yesterday typing out a similar message with the same examples. Dan Carlin's Ghost of the Ostfront series is awesome and worth the few bucks he charges if you haven't heard it. Supernova in the East also explains a lot of the Japanese culture and psychology that led to them being so fanatical.

A few added details: the Russian response to the German barbarism on the way back towards Berlin and the Fall of Berlin were equally gruesome. Raping, butchering, etc. Re Nanking, soldiers were grabbing babies by one leg and swinging them around and bashing in their heads, while other soldiers were stuffing grenades up women's vaginas, among other things.

Maybe the one thing that is new-ish here is that the Palestinians are supporting said actions and those who committed them appear to be proud of their actions. I'm not sure that was the case in any of these other situations. It makes me question those reports a little, since it seems so contrary to human nature.

In making these comps with the Axis Powers, though, I think it's useful to remember two things: (1) those cultures and nations are now fully functioning democracies with peaceful societies. (2) a lot of bloodletting (of not just their militaries, but their civilian populations, too) and the removal of the fanatics, along with a change in the societies and cultures occurred. I don't know if (2) is required to reach (1) for the Palestinians, but it is reasonable to conclude that it is.

I don't know if the Germans or Japanese (and later Russians) weren't proud. Early on I mentioned the Germans looked for more efficient ways to kill because it was creating psychological problems. That was true for Jews and westerners, people they knew from their youth. When it comes to the Slavs, I don't know that German soldiers didn't have pride. At least inside the SS and Gestapo I suspect it was a source of pride and advancement. I suspect careers were hurt by a reluctance to carry out such activities.

The Russians certainly carried out a reign of terror on their way back. I've read several books on the fall of Berlin, it was a very bad time for German civilians. And it was revenge. But there are a lot of interesting stories. Frontline troops were very often well-disciplined and often warned civilians that the rear echelon was going to be much worse.

For Russia, there is the excuse that they were avenging. I don't think it makes what happened right, but it makes it more explainable. People who have had their family raped and murdered aren't likely to show the same sympathy and compassion. And like Germany, it was a matter of state policy. The front line troops had to be disciplined to be effective. The back line troops were encouraged toward revenge.

I think I am on very solid ground in arguing that what happened in October isn't worse, and isn't better, than what happened in Russia or Nanking. Your examples of Nanking are great, I hope CO sees them.

Dan Carlin is brilliant. I have heard Supernova, but haven't made it to Ghost yet. I should queue it up, but my Audible collection is annoyingly long. I am currently listening to a book on determinism (wow, free will may be just fantasy), then I have James Holland's new book on the Italian Campaign. I think I'll squeeze it in after that. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[DANC]

Israel is an angel and justified in killing civilians, and Hamas killing a thousand people is worse than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao: great discussion. African Americans were treated worse in America.

What a simpleton

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Invincible ignorance, read a f#ing book on the Eastern Front as you are SERIOUSLY lacking in any knowledge of what happened there.

The German army was taught that Russians were subhuman. Russian soldiers were put in POW camps with no structures and the Germans stole their winter gear. Imagine being in an open air camp, on the Steppes, with no winter clothing and roughly 700 calories a day.

If a village was thought to harbor partisans, the entire village was burned down and everyone killed. Rape was totally acceptable, they were subhuman, available for the German masters to do as they please.

If you were a reasonable human you would have said we saw in October a level of barbarism not seen since Germany and Japan (Nanking), and equated them, I would have no problem. Cold blooded murder of men women, children, rape, torture (the Gestapo tortured a hell of a lot of people in very gruesome ways) isn't really subject to gradation. If it is, Germany and Japan get advantages for volume, I doubt there was a day they didn't butcher 1000 people from 1941 on.

I know you see some political gain for this as you don't type a sentence without consideration of political gain. The Germans were total barbarians. Lampshades made of human skin? The Japanese were barbaric to captured populations, to this day there is animosity in Korea. I don't know why you think they were in any way gentlemanly. They burned babies, they tortured, they raped women/girls in front of their families. They actively used people in bizarre "experiments" which were nothing more than carrying out sadism claiming science.

Everything you saw done in October was done, often, on the Eastern Front. The Palestinian savages invented nothing new.

I’ve read a lot about the eastern front, and a lot about all the individuals I mentioned, except for Che, only a little about that one.

I understand the atrocities with all of that. I think 10/7 is worse for all the reasons I mentioned. While understand the argument, saying 10/7 was worse is not “ patently ridiculous” or the product of “invincible ignorance” are not arguments.

What’s going on here is now obvious, and goat confirmed it. The other examples mentioned are without any justification whatsoever. One the other hand, blaming Israel for the Palestinian reaction lurks in the background of any discussion about Gaza and the West Bank. 10/7 snuffed out any notion that Israel bears responsibility for me. We are seeing hate and atrocities not present on the globe for centuries.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I’ve read a lot about the eastern front, and a lot about all the individuals I mentioned, except for Che, only a little about that one.

I understand the atrocities with all of that. I think 10/7 is worse for all the reasons I mentioned. While understand the argument, saying 10/7 was worse is not “ patently ridiculous” or the product of “invincible ignorance”.

What’s going on here is now obvious, and goat confirmed it. The other examples you mentioned are without ant justification whatsoever. One the other hand, blaming Israel for the Palestinian reaction lurks in the background of any discussion about Gaza and the West Bank. 10/7 snuffed out any notion that Israel bears responsibility for me. We are seeing hate and atrocities not present on the globe for centuries.

What is it you think I confirmed? So far, everything that you've claimed is obvious about my posts and opinions is pure bullshit, and offensive bullshit at that. But, please, enlighten us.

 

[DANC]

View embedded media

View embedded media

Not one Palestinian could even conceive of living in theoretical peace and equality while even some of the most extremely religious Israelis could. There were notable exceptions on the Israeli side, you did get a little more variety but the Palestinians were basically a no. The softest no being the 2 women in the store.

The Palestinians speak of 'our land'. It was never 'Palestine'. That's what I don't understand. They are Jordanian or Egyptian.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

What is it you think I confirmed? So far, everything that you've claimed is obvious about my posts and opinions is pure bullshit, and offensive bullshit at that. But, please, enlighten us.

Your deleted post showed I hit the target.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Your deleted post showed I hit the target.

No, my deleted post showed that you became such an asshole, I couldn't keep my cool.

Please, point to your reasoning for suggesting I want to find a reason to blame Israel. Have at it.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Marv, I spent time yesterday typing out a similar message with the same examples. Dan Carlin's Ghost of the Ostfront series is awesome and worth the few bucks he charges if you haven't heard it. Supernova in the East also explains a lot of the Japanese culture and psychology that led to them being so fanatical.

A few added details: the Russian response to the German barbarism on the way back towards Berlin and the Fall of Berlin were equally gruesome. Raping, butchering, etc. Re Nanking, soldiers were grabbing babies by one leg and swinging them around and bashing in their heads, while other soldiers were stuffing grenades up women's vaginas, among other things.

Maybe the one thing that is new-ish here is that the Palestinians are supporting said actions and those who committed them appear to be proud of their actions. I'm not sure that was the case in any of these other situations. It makes me question those reports a little, since it seems so contrary to human nature.

In making these comps with the Axis Powers, though, I think it's useful to remember two things: (1) those cultures and nations are now fully functioning democracies with peaceful societies. (2) a lot of bloodletting (of not just their militaries, but their civilian populations, too) and the removal of the fanatics, along with a change in the societies and cultures occurred. I don't know if (2) is required to reach (1) for the Palestinians, but it is reasonable to conclude that it is.

Nanking is a good example. I didn’t think about the Japanese there or in the Korean peninsula.

What sticks with me is that Hamas specifically trained and prepared themselves to commit horrible atrocities. It seems to me the other 20th century examples, while just as awful, evolved from the war and occupation and were to some extent spontaneous.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

No, my deleted post showed that you became such an asshole, I couldn't keep my cool.

Please, point to your reasoning for suggesting I want to find a reason to blame Israel. Have at it.

Exactly. I didn’t attack you. I argued a point and struck a nerve.

 

[DANC]

Namking is a good example. I didn’t think about the Japanese there or in the Korean peninsula.

What sticks with me is that Hamas specifically trained and prepared themselves to commit horrible atrocities. It seems to me the other 20th century examples, while just as awful, evolved from the war and occupation and were to some extent spontaneous.

Another difference, which I think you alluded to, is that 10/7 was meant for global broadcast. They were proud of their actions.

In WWII, those actions were hidden and were covered up as much as possible, because they knew the world would condemn it. 10/7 was meant to provoke a reaction which is just what some people here espouse - moral equivalency. So far, it appears to be working with the usual dupes.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Another difference, which I think you alluded to, is that 10/7 was meant for global broadcast. They were proud of their actions.

In WWII, those actions were hidden and were covered up as much as possible, because they knew the world would condemn it. 10/7 was meant to provoke a reaction which is just what some people here espouse - moral equivalency. So far, it appears to be working with the usual dupes.

Yep. This is what I meant when I said eons ago that Hamas weaponized their atrocities in ways not seen in centuries.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Nanking is a good example. I didn’t think about the Japanese there or in the Korean peninsula.

What sticks with me is that Hamas specifically trained and prepared themselves to commit horrible atrocities. It seems to me the other 20th century examples, while just as awful, evolved from the war and occupation and were to some extent spontaneous.

Germany planned mass slaughter on the eastern front from the beginning. Google GeneralPlan Ost. Many in Ukraine were thrilled when the Germans entered, Stalin had killed a lot of Ukrainians. They flipped because the Germans were worse. They took up guerilla warfare because Germans were cruel from day 1. One of the great what ifs, what if Germany entered Belarus and Ukraine as liberators. Suddenly everything that happens in Russia changes as they gain a lot of manpower.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Exactly. I didn’t attack you. I argued a point and struck a nerve.

Liar.

I think people like you call that patently ridiculous because you are determined to find fault with Israel

 

[BradStevens]

Nanking is a good example. I didn’t think about the Japanese there or in the Korean peninsula.

What sticks with me is that Hamas specifically trained and prepared themselves to commit horrible atrocities. It seems to me the other 20th century examples, while just as awful, evolved from the war and occupation and were to some extent spontaneous.

I think that's a good differentiator, for sure.

One of the podcasts I posted here had a guy talking about how Hamas's strategy is copied from the Algerians. They used terror tactics to make the French just want to get the hell out. The problem in Israel, though, is that the Israelis feel they have no where else to go.

 

[BradStevens]

I am currently listening to a book on determinism (wow, free will may be just fantasy),

Which book? One of Sapolsky's?

 

[BradStevens]

Germany planned mass slaughter on the eastern front from the beginning. Google GeneralPlan Ost. Many in Ukraine were thrilled when the Germans entered, Stalin had killed a lot of Ukrainians. They flipped because the Germans were worse. They took up guerilla warfare because Germans were cruel from day 1. One of the great what ifs, what if Germany entered Belarus and Ukraine as liberators. Suddenly everything that happens in Russia changes as they gain a lot of manpower.

Not sure that what if makes sense. The whole reason for invading was to kick out or kill the people there and have more land for Germans to move into. Lebensraum is what they called it (by the way, lots of countries thought the same way in that time period). Add that purpose with the underlying racism of the Nazis towards the Slavs, and what happened probably had to happen in that way given the circumstances.

Lebensraum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Liar.

You call that an attack on you? I think making an effort to find fault with Israel is just being a Democrat.

Have a happy, healthy and prosperous new year.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

You call that an attack on you? I think making an effort to find fault with Israel is just being a Democrat.

Have a happy, healthy and prosperous new year.

Adding a winking emoji doesn't make your comment any less assholish.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Which book? One of Sapolsky's?

Yes, Determined by him

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Not sure that what if makes sense. The whole reason for invading was to kick out or kill the people there and have more land for Germans to move into. Lebensraum is what they called it (by the way, lots of countries thought the same way in that time period). Add that purpose with the underlying racism of the Nazis towards the Slavs, and what happened probably had to happen in that way given the circumstances.

Lebensraum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, but they could have let Ukraine and Belarus fit in until Russia was destroyed, then turn on those two. In 2 wars they elected to fight everyone all at once

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Adding a winking emoji doesn't make your comment any less assholish.

In addition to blaming Israel, Democrats also have no sense of humor

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

In addition to blaming Israel, Democrats also have no sense of humor

You weren't being funny. You were being dead serious. Now you're trying to turn it into a joke rather than admit you were in the wrong.

I don't have it out for you, CO.H. Just a tiny bit of humility and self-awareness on your part would do wonders. Just a smidgen.

 

[DANC]

Germany planned mass slaughter on the eastern front from the beginning. Google GeneralPlan Ost. Many in Ukraine were thrilled when the Germans entered, Stalin had killed a lot of Ukrainians. They flipped because the Germans were worse. They took up guerilla warfare because Germans were cruel from day 1. One of the great what ifs, what if Germany entered Belarus and Ukraine as liberators. Suddenly everything that happens in Russia changes as they gain a lot of manpower.

Did Germany and Japan use films of their actions in their propaganda?

 

[DANC]

You weren't being funny. You were being dead serious. Now you're trying to turn it into a joke rather than admit you were in the wrong.

I don't have it out for you, CO.H. Just a tiny bit of humility and self-awareness on your part would do wonders. Just a smidgen.

Oh, the irony.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

You call that an attack on you? I think making an effort to find fault with Israel is just being a Democrat.

Have a happy, healthy and prosperous new year.

That would be like saying being racist against muslims is just being a Republican.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Marv, I spent time yesterday typing out a similar message with the same examples. Dan Carlin's Ghost of the Ostfront series is awesome and worth the few bucks he charges if you haven't heard it. Supernova in the East also explains a lot of the Japanese culture and psychology that led to them being so fanatical.

A few added details: the Russian response to the German barbarism on the way back towards Berlin and the Fall of Berlin were equally gruesome. Raping, butchering, etc. Re Nanking, soldiers were grabbing babies by one leg and swinging them around and bashing in their heads, while other soldiers were stuffing grenades up women's vaginas, among other things.

Maybe the one thing that is new-ish here is that the Palestinians are supporting said actions and those who committed them appear to be proud of their actions. I'm not sure that was the case in any of these other situations. It makes me question those reports a little, since it seems so contrary to human nature.

In making these comps with the Axis Powers, though, I think it's useful to remember two things: (1) those cultures and nations are now fully functioning democracies with peaceful societies. (2) a lot of bloodletting (of not just their militaries, but their civilian populations, too) and the removal of the fanatics, along with a change in the societies and cultures occurred. I don't know if (2) is required to reach (1) for the Palestinians, but it is reasonable to conclude that it is.

And that pretty succinctly has been my point. I don't think what has happened is worse than what occurred in WW2 but I think it is born of the same thinking. And that is why I think the reasonable conclusion would be to treat each situation as the same. I don't think people give up their cultures easily, particularly when religion is involved. You have to break them of the ideology and then force an alternative on them. That alternative may be moderate Islam or whatever, but I don't think you allow the status quo to fester any longer.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Did Germany and Japan use films of their actions in their propaganda?

For Germany, you are rewarding them for trying to make killing efficient. They made many concentration camp internees write letters to those not yet sent saying how wonderful it was and how well treated they were. That was to make it easier to capture them later, if everyone fled and hid it would be far harder.

I am less familiar with Japan but they published a story about two officers having a contest to see who could behead 100 Chinese with their sword faster.

The Japanese Press

Read an excerpt of a story published in the Japanese press about two Japanese soldiers' brutal actions in China.

www.facinghistory.org

But yes, for the most part they downplayed Nanking and Korea. Largely I suspect for the same reason as the Germans. Trying to fight the whole world means hopefully doing it one at a time.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Another difference, which I think you alluded to, is that 10/7 was meant for global broadcast. They were proud of their actions.

In WWII, those actions were hidden and were covered up as much as possible, because they knew the world would condemn it. 10/7 was meant to provoke a reaction which is just what some people here espouse - moral equivalency. So far, it appears to be working with the usual dupes.

This is an excellent point.