Indiana Jails

[Marvin the Martian]

The Indy Star has an article out about how overcrowded Indiana jails are becoming.

Since 2000, the state’s jail population has grown by 60%, according to 2019 federal data — more than five times the state’s overall population growth. But it's not like Indiana has been overrun by hardened criminals.​

​

Indiana's jails are largely filled with people arrested on relatively minor charges and often related to drugs, mental illness, the inability to afford bail or a failure to follow rules of probation. They are complicated, sometimes overlapping issues, exacerbated by a drastic shortage of state psychiatric hospital beds and the transfer of thousands of state prisoners into already crowded local jails since 2014.​

​

The story suggests most people in jail are not violent offenders, they are the drug addicts and the mentally ill. And many jails lack any ability to treat either. A money line was " 'Punishment is easy', Henry said. 'Changing lives is hard.' "

The article recalls the closing of the large state mental health facilities, and that has been a problem. All we have done is transfer the mentally ill to the criminal justice system which was never designed to handle that issue. But the Supreme Court made that choice so there isn't much to do there.

But there has to be some way of treating the addict, or counseling the mentally ill rather than lock them up. We probably can't afford to build a new jail in every county. But we all know cases where people who do commit violent crimes are let loose early and do them again. Those are the people that need to stay locked away, not a simple drug addict or even a drug seller (as long as no violent history).

Bigger jails stand as monuments to Indiana's failures as incarceration rate keeps climbing

Indiana's jails are largely filled with people arrested on relatively minor charges and often related to drugs or mental illness.

www.indystar.com

 

[go_iu]

There needs to be a massive investment in house arrest programs. Letting somebody mentally ill out just because they didn't commit a violent crime and/or on drugs is not a good idea because if they are desperate, have no place to go, they will be unpredictable and the next one may be violent especially if there's serious mental illnes and addiction. If they can go somewhere and be monitored, let them go on house arrest.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The Indy Star has an article out about how overcrowded Indiana jails are becoming.

Since 2000, the state’s jail population has grown by 60%, according to 2019 federal data — more than five times the state’s overall population growth. But it's not like Indiana has been overrun by hardened criminals.​

​

Indiana's jails are largely filled with people arrested on relatively minor charges and often related to drugs, mental illness, the inability to afford bail or a failure to follow rules of probation. They are complicated, sometimes overlapping issues, exacerbated by a drastic shortage of state psychiatric hospital beds and the transfer of thousands of state prisoners into already crowded local jails since 2014.​

​

The story suggests most people in jail are not violent offenders, they are the drug addicts and the mentally ill. And many jails lack any ability to treat either. A money line was " 'Punishment is easy', Henry said. 'Changing lives is hard.' "

The article recalls the closing of the large state mental health facilities, and that has been a problem. All we have done is transfer the mentally ill to the criminal justice system which was never designed to handle that issue. But the Supreme Court made that choice so there isn't much to do there.

But there has to be some way of treating the addict, or counseling the mentally ill rather than lock them up. We probably can't afford to build a new jail in every county. But we all know cases where people who do commit violent crimes are let loose early and do them again. Those are the people that need to stay locked away, not a simple drug addict or even a drug seller (as long as no violent history).

Bigger jails stand as monuments to Indiana's failures as incarceration rate keeps climbing

Indiana's jails are largely filled with people arrested on relatively minor charges and often related to drugs or mental illness.

www.indystar.com

Lots of "these people are victims;" lots of far left bail recommendations that are failing all over the country. If people were simply using drugs, today, they have endless opportunities to avoid jail. What typically happens is they are using drugs and commit a crime so they are in jail for whatever crime they committed. Drug courts are vetting out simple drug addicts. Alternative sentencing for same as well. Probation revocations are the lion's share of people in jail, not people suffering from mental health issues. Eliminating cash bail is a terrible idea. Treating drug addiction before they commit crimes is obviously critical.

A better idea is how do we eliminate drug abuse and crime. Not how do we give criminals more chances for recidivism

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Lots of "these people are victims;" lots of far left bail recommendations that are failing all over the country. If people were simply using drugs, today, they have endless opportunities to avoid jail. What typically happens is they are using drugs and commit a crime so they are in jail for whatever crime they committed. Drug courts are vetting out simple drug addicts. Alternative sentencing for same as well. Probation revocations are the lion's share of people in jail, not people suffering from mental health issues. Eliminating cash bail is a terrible idea. Treating drug addiction before they commit crimes is obviously critical.

A better idea is how do we eliminate drug abuse and crime. Not how do we give criminals more chances for recidivism

Legalizing marijuana everywhere, would go a long way, I would think.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Legalizing marijuana everywhere, would go a long way, I would think.

It's so dumb not to legalize it

 

[DrHoops]

Lots of "these people are victims;" lots of far left bail recommendations that are failing all over the country. If people were simply using drugs, today, they have endless opportunities to avoid jail. What typically happens is they are using drugs and commit a crime so they are in jail for whatever crime they committed. Drug courts are vetting out simple drug addicts. Alternative sentencing from same as well. Probation revocations are the lion's share of people in jail, not people suffering from mental health issues. Eliminating cash bail is a terrible idea.

A better idea is how do we eliminate drug abuse and crime. Not how do we give criminals more chances for recidivism

Which of these "far left bail recommendations" are failing?

 

[bailey777]

Which of these "far left bail recommendations" are failing?

Where to start. San Fran. Philly. LA. All your favorite liberal places but oh by all means try it in Indy I am sure you will love it and it will work out perfect.

San Fran is the poster child for electing a left wing DA( son of two terrorists) who is for low or no bail and emptying out the jails. That really seems to be working out so well for them. Even the far left wing mayor of San Fran is now calling for more police. You cannot make this stuff up the tolerance and compassion did not work out I guess!

San Francisco's mayor announced Tuesday even more initiatives aimed at curbing open drug use, brazen home break-ins and other criminal behavior that she says have made a mockery of the city's famed tolerance and compassion.

Mayor London Breed said at a news conference attended by her police chief and other public safety personnel that she would introduce legislation to allow law enforcement real-time access to surveillance video in certain situations and to make it harder for people to sell stolen goods.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Lots of "these people are victims;" lots of far left bail recommendations that are failing all over the country. If people were simply using drugs, today, they have endless opportunities to avoid jail. What typically happens is they are using drugs and commit a crime so they are in jail for whatever crime they committed. Drug courts are vetting out simple drug addicts. Alternative sentencing for same as well. Probation revocations are the lion's share of people in jail, not people suffering from mental health issues. Eliminating cash bail is a terrible idea. Treating drug addiction before they commit crimes is obviously critical.

A better idea is how do we eliminate drug abuse and crime. Not how do we give criminals more chances for recidivism

I agree with your last statement, but does jail/prison eliminate drug use (or solve mental illness)? You know the old saw about sending an 18-year old to prison on a drug crime, we just teach him how to be a more hardened criminal.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Which of these "far left bail recommendations" are failing?

Criminal justice reform is failing all over the country - it's being pushed by the far left and we are seeing the effects of it - record crime. The mayor of San Fran recently recognized it. The citizens of NY recognized it in electing Adams. Less cops and more bad guys on the streets equals more crime.

Eliminating bail puts more criminals on the streets. It's there to ensure they show up for court and for a state judge to determine whether the accused poses a threat to public safety. Eliminating that is asinine.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I agree with your last statement, but does jail/prison eliminate drug use (or solve mental illness)? You know the old saw about sending an 18-year old to prison on a drug crime, we just teach him how to be a more hardened criminal.

Is a drug addict on the streets trying to find money a good thing? I'd rather them in jail. I don't know the solution. I know how drug court works. It's onerous. Piss tests. Treatment etc. And it can go on for years. But if you fail you go to the criminal justice sentencing. Drug court is voluntary. Should we have mandatory facilities for drug addicts? If you fail drug court you are sentenced to rehab. For how long? I don't know. It's sticky stuff.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Eliminating bail puts more criminals on the streets. It's there to ensure they show up for court and for a state judge to determine whether the accused poses a threat to public safety. Eliminating that is asinine.

Bail has problems:

On a summer night in 2017, a police officer conducting a drunken-driving sweep in northeast Wisconsin tried to pull over an SUV after a check showed the owner had a revoked driver’s license. The driver fled. As the officer gave chase, siren blaring, the vehicle blew through multiple stop signs in a residential area.​

​

The officer stopped the pursuit for public safety reasons. When police found the vehicle parked later, the driver was nowhere to be found.​

​

The vehicle owner told the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism that he was not driving the car that day; his ex-girlfriend had been using it for months. He asked that his identity be shielded in this story — "David" is a pseudonym — because although the case has been dismissed, prosecutors could still refile charges against him.​

​

When David went to retrieve his SUV from the impound lot, he was arrested for the felony charge of eluding police. The next day, the court commissioner set his bail at $5,000. David asked the commissioner to set an amount he could afford, closer to $1,500, but the commissioner declined.​

​

So David sat in jail for 84 days waiting for his trial — even though he had an alibi and witnesses to swear he was not driving the SUV the night of the chase.​

​

Eventually, David’s public defenders got the case dismissed.​

​

Now I don't think removing bail is a good idea. But the simple fact is OJ Simpson can murder two people and be out in a couple hours. Poor people can spend weeks in jail for crimes they didn't commit because they can't afford the bail. There has to be a happy solution somewhere in between.

 

[bailey777]

A Los Angeles Police Department detective said Friday that Californians were sold a "bag of goods" on bail reform as thefts surge in cities across the state.

"I blame the [American Civil Liberties Union]. I think they sold everybody a bag of goods with this zero bail policy as we see. Our chief came out yesterday and said that 14 of these people that were arrested did not stay in jail. They got released and some of them were arrested and out on release from a prior smash and grab robbery,"

CALIFORNIA’S ZERO-BAIL POLICY SETS FREE 14 SMASH-GRAB ROBBERY SUSPECTS, LAPD CHIEF SAYS

McBride, director of the L.A. Police Protective League, said there are no ramifications for the rash of thefts in California.

"Most people's holidays start in December. Here in California and especially Los Angeles, it’s every day. It’s Christmas every day here for the criminals. Why wait until the holidays? You can go out and get whatever you want any time you want and there are no ramifications."

I say give it a try in Indy ( no bail ) so the bleeding hearts can get it out of their systems and feel good! I am sure a few on this board would be all for it.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Bail has problems:

On a summer night in 2017, a police officer conducting a drunken-driving sweep in northeast Wisconsin tried to pull over an SUV after a check showed the owner had a revoked driver’s license. The driver fled. As the officer gave chase, siren blaring, the vehicle blew through multiple stop signs in a residential area.​

​

The officer stopped the pursuit for public safety reasons. When police found the vehicle parked later, the driver was nowhere to be found.​

​

The vehicle owner told the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism that he was not driving the car that day; his ex-girlfriend had been using it for months. He asked that his identity be shielded in this story — "David" is a pseudonym — because although the case has been dismissed, prosecutors could still refile charges against him.​

​

When David went to retrieve his SUV from the impound lot, he was arrested for the felony charge of eluding police. The next day, the court commissioner set his bail at $5,000. David asked the commissioner to set an amount he could afford, closer to $1,500, but the commissioner declined.​

​

So David sat in jail for 84 days waiting for his trial — even though he had an alibi and witnesses to swear he was not driving the SUV the night of the chase.​

​

Eventually, David’s public defenders got the case dismissed.​

​

Now I don't think removing bail is a good idea. But the simple fact is OJ Simpson can murder two people and be out in a couple hours. Poor people can spend weeks in jail for crimes they didn't commit because they can't afford the bail. There has to be a happy solution somewhere in between.

No offense but I don't put much stock into single stories. It's like the client who says yeah but I know a guy who got the $100,000 policy limit for soft tissue injuries.

I can't speak for everywhere and I shouldn't. I have never seen bail for minor stuff be anything but small or 10% cash. There are also bondsman. And yes there might be an extreme example in what you cite above, but that can't be used as a basis to overhaul an entire system where more criminals will be on the streets.

 

[Cortez88]

Criminal justice reform is failing all over the country - it's being pushed by the far left and we are seeing the effects of it - record crime. The mayor of San Fran recently recognized it. The citizens of NY recognized it in electing Adams. Less cops and more bad guys on the streets equals more crime.

Eliminating bail puts more criminals on the streets. It's there to ensure they show up for court and for a state judge to determine whether the accused poses a threat to public safety. Eliminating that is asinine.

Is policing the same thing as imprisoning? I think we need to support law enforcement and encourage the best people to become cops. I also think we have a huge policy issue with prison.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Is policing the same thing as imprisoning? I think we need to support law enforcement and encourage the best people to become cops. I also think we have a huge policy issue with prison.

Policing reform is easy imo. Better cops. But that becomes a question of how much of a priority it is for us. We can have a police force that mirrors Fed cops all over the country if we required college degrees, psych evals, additional training, etc, and then have the cops attempt to mirror the population they police. That'd be better. Here our cops have to be 21, have a GED and 20/20 vision. What do we expect. We get what we pay for.

 

[IU_Hickory]

The Indy Star has an article out about how overcrowded Indiana jails are becoming.

Since 2000, the state’s jail population has grown by 60%, according to 2019 federal data — more than five times the state’s overall population growth. But it's not like Indiana has been overrun by hardened criminals.​

​

Indiana's jails are largely filled with people arrested on relatively minor charges and often related to drugs, mental illness, the inability to afford bail or a failure to follow rules of probation. They are complicated, sometimes overlapping issues, exacerbated by a drastic shortage of state psychiatric hospital beds and the transfer of thousands of state prisoners into already crowded local jails since 2014.​

​

The story suggests most people in jail are not violent offenders, they are the drug addicts and the mentally ill. And many jails lack any ability to treat either. A money line was " 'Punishment is easy', Henry said. 'Changing lives is hard.' "

The article recalls the closing of the large state mental health facilities, and that has been a problem. All we have done is transfer the mentally ill to the criminal justice system which was never designed to handle that issue. But the Supreme Court made that choice so there isn't much to do there.

But there has to be some way of treating the addict, or counseling the mentally ill rather than lock them up. We probably can't afford to build a new jail in every county. But we all know cases where people who do commit violent crimes are let loose early and do them again. Those are the people that need to stay locked away, not a simple drug addict or even a drug seller (as long as no violent history).

Bigger jails stand as monuments to Indiana's failures as incarceration rate keeps climbing

Indiana's jails are largely filled with people arrested on relatively minor charges and often related to drugs or mental illness.

www.indystar.com

Yes, some kind of probation or house arrest would be better than sticking everyone in jail.

Maybe setting them up with thehoosier.com accounts and having them converse on the forums would be therapeutic

 

[Cortez88]

Policing reform is easy imo. Better cops. But that becomes a question of how much of a priority it is for us. We can have a police force that mirrors Fed cops all over the country if we required college degrees, psych evals, additional training, etc, and then have the cops attempt to mirror the population they police. That'd be better. Here our cops have to be 21, have a GED and 20/20 vision. What do we expect. We get what we pay for.

Law enforcement are public employees. To raise salaries, you need funds. You raise taxes and certain people who “back the blue” will get pissed.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Legalizing marijuana everywhere, would go a long way, I would think.

It would go a very short way, if at all.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Law enforcement are public employees. To raise salaries, you need funds. You raise taxes and certain people who “back the blue” will get pissed.

I'm not sure. Look at what Chicago has paid out in the last two decades on police misconduct cases. Or Saint Louis. Better cops may actually save cities money.

 

[DrHoops]

Criminal justice reform is failing all over the country - it's being pushed by the far left and we are seeing the effects of it - record crime. The mayor of San Fran recently recognized it. The citizens of NY recognized it in electing Adams. Less cops and more bad guys on the streets equals more crime.

Eliminating bail puts more criminals on the streets. It's there to ensure they show up for court and for a state judge to determine whether the accused poses a threat to public safety. Eliminating that is asinine.

So far, it's been a success in Illinois:

http://www.jfa-associates.com/publications/reduce/Cook_County_Bail_Report.pdf

Did Illinois get bail reform right? Criminal justice advocates are optimistic

“We live in a system today where we use money as the sole determining factor in determining whether somebody is going to be in jail or out of jail," one justice advocate said.

www.nbcnews.com

Seems to be a success in New Jersey as well:

How New Jersey Made a Bail Breakthrough

Cases like State v. Raymond Johnson occur dozens of times a day in New Jersey courtrooms, perhaps hundreds of times a day across the United States.

paw.princeton.edu

Bail Reform Is Working | New Jersey Law Journal

These results indicate that the reform of bail in New Jersey, while difficult to implement, has been a very significant success.

www.law.com

 

[mcmurtry66]

So far, it's been a success in Illinois:

http://www.jfa-associates.com/publications/reduce/Cook_County_Bail_Report.pdf

Did Illinois get bail reform right? Criminal justice advocates are optimistic

“We live in a system today where we use money as the sole determining factor in determining whether somebody is going to be in jail or out of jail," one justice advocate said.

www.nbcnews.com

Seems to be a success in New Jersey as well:

How New Jersey Made a Bail Breakthrough

Cases like State v. Raymond Johnson occur dozens of times a day in New Jersey courtrooms, perhaps hundreds of times a day across the United States.

paw.princeton.edu

Bail Reform Is Working | New Jersey Law Journal

These results indicate that the reform of bail in New Jersey, while difficult to implement, has been a very significant success.

www.law.com

Total nonsense. What's more all one needs to do is think for yourself. Consider the purpose behind bail and combine same with recidivism rates and you know sweeping bail reform is silly. There are certainly instances, certain crimes, where it makes sense, but the kind the vapid, virtue-signaling dolts that constitute the Squad and their followers support at the state level have no clue what that looks like.

Criminal justice reform, as contemplated by the left, has been a total failure. Now we see places like San Francisco recognizing more cops are necessary. Bail reform is yet another stupid component of their ignorance. Hell AOC refuses to acknowledge smash and grabs.

I'll tell you where I do think it makes sense is at the Municipal Court level where largely traffic and ordinance cases are adjudicated. There I could see reform, or perhaps even abolishment, along with amnesty days. But at the Circuit level for state crimes the progressive left has no clue. I want judges making determinations for public safety before letting the accused go free.

Number of crimes committed by released arrestees jumped after Chicago-area bail reform, study says

An analysis of bail reform in Cook County, Illinois, underplayed the increase in crime that followed, according to a University of Utah study and a review by the Chicago Tribune.

www.abajournal.com

 

[UncleMark]

Drug court is voluntary. Should we have mandatory facilities for drug addicts? If you fail drug court you are sentenced to rehab. For how long? I don't know. It's sticky stuff.

Dealing with addicts is a bitch. Recovery has to be an inside job. There's no "treatment" that can be done successfully without their cooperation and desire to succeed. (If you get a dose of the clap, a shot of penicillin will fix you up even if you refuse to admit you've got it. Doesn't work that way with drunks and druggies.) Drug court can force abstinence for a long enough time for the "treatment" to make the case that clean/sober is better, but an amazing number of people think they've got their shit together after a year or two of forced abstinence and that they'll be able to get away with doing a little "social" using. That doesn't usually go well.

 

[bailey777]

Total nonsense. What's more all one needs to do is think for yourself. Consider the purpose behind bail and combine same with recidivism rates and you know sweeping bail reform is silly. There are certainly instances, certain crimes, where it makes sense, but the kind the vapid, virtue-signaling dolts that constitute the Squad and their followers support at the state level have no clue what that looks like.

Criminal justice reform, as contemplated by the left, has been a total failure. Now we see places like San Francisco recognizing more cops are necessary. Bail reform is yet another stupid component of their ignorance. Hell AOC refuses to acknowledge smash and grabs.

I'll tell you where I do think it makes sense is at the Municipal Court level where largely traffic and ordinance cases are adjudicated. There I could see reform, or perhaps even abolishment, along with amnesty days. But at the Circuit level for state crimes the progressive left has no clue. I want judges making determinations for public safety behind letting the accused go free.

Number of crimes committed by released arrestees jumped after Chicago-area bail reform, study says

An analysis of bail reform in Cook County, Illinois, underplayed the increase in crime that followed, according to a University of Utah study and a review by the Chicago Tribune.

www.abajournal.com

If left wing cities want to let out every criminal I could care less. I do not live in any of them and never would in a million years. I used to like Chicago but not anymore I have no interest in going there.I wonder if Dr. Hoops has any skin in the game? i highly highly doubt it.

 

[bailey777]

So far, it's been a success in Illinois:

http://www.jfa-associates.com/publications/reduce/Cook_County_Bail_Report.pdf

Did Illinois get bail reform right? Criminal justice advocates are optimistic

“We live in a system today where we use money as the sole determining factor in determining whether somebody is going to be in jail or out of jail," one justice advocate said.

www.nbcnews.com

Seems to be a success in New Jersey as well:

How New Jersey Made a Bail Breakthrough

Cases like State v. Raymond Johnson occur dozens of times a day in New Jersey courtrooms, perhaps hundreds of times a day across the United States.

paw.princeton.edu

Bail Reform Is Working | New Jersey Law Journal

These results indicate that the reform of bail in New Jersey, while difficult to implement, has been a very significant success.

www.law.com

LOL yeah Chicago is thriving and other vaunted far left liberal cities! Lightfoot blames the business owners.

Democratic mayors under fire as crime, violence plagues Chicago, New York, Philadelphia​

Jessica Chasmar
Tue, December 14, 2021, 5:29 AM·4 min read


Democratic mayors are raising eyebrows with their responses to the rising crime plaguing major cities like New York City, Chicago and Philadelphia.
The U.S. murder rate rose 30% between 2019 and 2020, according to FBI data – the largest annual increase on record, with Chicago topping the list. At least 12 major cities, including New York, have already set historical murder records in 2021. Robberies and assaults are also on the rise, and retailers in major cities across the country are reporting an uptick in organized smash-and-grab crimes during the busy holiday shopping season.
Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot faced criticism last week after she responded to the recent flood of robberies in her city by blaming retailers for not better protecting their merchandise.

 

[DrHoops]

LOL yeah Chicago is thriving and other vaunted far left liberal cities! Lightfoot blames the business owners.

Democratic mayors under fire as crime, violence plagues Chicago, New York, Philadelphia​

Jessica Chasmar
Tue, December 14, 2021, 5:29 AM·4 min read


Democratic mayors are raising eyebrows with their responses to the rising crime plaguing major cities like New York City, Chicago and Philadelphia.
The U.S. murder rate rose 30% between 2019 and 2020, according to FBI data – the largest annual increase on record, with Chicago topping the list. At least 12 major cities, including New York, have already set historical murder records in 2021. Robberies and assaults are also on the rise, and retailers in major cities across the country are reporting an uptick in organized smash-and-grab crimes during the busy holiday shopping season.
Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot faced criticism last week after she responded to the recent flood of robberies in her city by blaming retailers for not better protecting their merchandise.

LOL. Fox, Fox, Fox Business, and Fox.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Dealing with addicts is a bitch. Recovery has to be an inside job. There's no "treatment" that can be done successfully without their cooperation and desire to succeed. (If you get a dose of the clap, a shot of penicillin will fix you up even if you refuse to admit you've got it. Doesn't work that way with drunks and druggies.) Drug court can force abstinence for a long enough time for the "treatment" to make the case that clean/sober is better, but an amazing number of people think they've got their shit together after a year or two of forced abstinence and that they'll be able to get away with doing a little "social" using. That doesn't usually go well.

Noted. If you look at the data on bail reform and crimes committed by people out on bail the vast majority are drug offenses.

They are also the majority of probation revocations

So what's the solution? The system, a drug court, as part of the system, can't keep a case open for years and years waiting for someone to truly be recovered

 

[mcmurtry66]

LOL. Fox, Fox, Fox Business, and Fox.

Hoops I do think reform for the cash portion is fine. For instance finding some alternative to cash. But eliminating bail/cash bail makes zero sense

 

[bailey777]

LOL. Fox, Fox, Fox Business, and Fox.

CNN is your go to I imagine. The station that breeds child molesters. LOL!!! Plus I know you think all of that is made up and the crime is not real. You need skin in the game my friend. You need to move to the heart of one of these left wing nirvanas you so love.

 

[bailey777]

LOL. Fox, Fox, Fox Business, and Fox.

This is your go to station. He was connected to Cuomo who I am gueesing you watched nightly. A couple of real winners!

CNN Fires Senior Producer Charged with Luring Children into ‘Sexual Subservience’ Training

Former anchor Chris Cuomo's senior producer John Griffin was fired from CNN on Monday after he was indicted for baiting young girls into "sexual subservience" training at his Vermont residence.

news.yahoo.com

 

[zeke4ahs]

This is your go to station. He was connected to Cuomo who I am gueesing you watched nightly. A couple of real winners!

CNN Fires Senior Producer Charged with Luring Children into ‘Sexual Subservience’ Training

Former anchor Chris Cuomo's senior producer John Griffin was fired from CNN on Monday after he was indicted for baiting young girls into "sexual subservience" training at his Vermont residence.

news.yahoo.com

Fox News to pay $1 million settlement in sexual harassment probe by NYC human rights commission

Fox News agreed to pay $1 million to settle the New York City Commission on Human Rights probe into sexual harassment and retaliation at the network.

www.cnbc.com

Thoughts? And Roger Ailes was one of the worst offenders. Speaking of real winners.....

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Dealing with addicts is a bitch. Recovery has to be an inside job. There's no "treatment" that can be done successfully without their cooperation and desire to succeed. (If you get a dose of the clap, a shot of penicillin will fix you up even if you refuse to admit you've got it. Doesn't work that way with drunks and druggies.) Drug court can force abstinence for a long enough time for the "treatment" to make the case that clean/sober is better, but an amazing number of people think they've got their shit together after a year or two of forced abstinence and that they'll be able to get away with doing a little "social" using. That doesn't usually go well.

Spot on. In my recent week long stay in the hospital, they kept trying to stick a nicotine patch on me, which I refused. I asked why are you so determined to give me something that I don't want? They said that my record said I am a smoker. I said yes, for 30 years but I don't want the GD patch. Of course they asked why I don't want it. I said simple, never accept to have a vice that you can't walk away from upon a seconds notice. I don't need the effing patch. Never craved one cig and they seemed pissed because that is not how the "normal" sheep they deal with react.
People must have the internal strength and self control.. Not many do anymore because they ARE NOT FORCED/ EXPECTED TO have it. We are killing ourselves because we look for ways to give each other a pass, instead of holding each other accountable.

Oh hey IU BB Player, you have missed 394 shots in a row.... just keep shooting, I know you can eventually do it.... says no Basket fan EVER. ... verses , you touch that ball and we are beating you with a rolled up towel with a red brick in it tonight. Kapeesh?

 

[twenty02]

Legalizing marijuana everywhere, would go a long way, I would think.

It's already either legal.... or de facto legal in most of the country.

 

[twenty02]

The Indy Star has an article out about how overcrowded Indiana jails are becoming.

Since 2000, the state’s jail population has grown by 60%, according to 2019 federal data — more than five times the state’s overall population growth. But it's not like Indiana has been overrun by hardened criminals.​

​

Indiana's jails are largely filled with people arrested on relatively minor charges and often related to drugs, mental illness, the inability to afford bail or a failure to follow rules of probation. They are complicated, sometimes overlapping issues, exacerbated by a drastic shortage of state psychiatric hospital beds and the transfer of thousands of state prisoners into already crowded local jails since 2014.​

​

The story suggests most people in jail are not violent offenders, they are the drug addicts and the mentally ill. And many jails lack any ability to treat either. A money line was " 'Punishment is easy', Henry said. 'Changing lives is hard.' "

The article recalls the closing of the large state mental health facilities, and that has been a problem. All we have done is transfer the mentally ill to the criminal justice system which was never designed to handle that issue. But the Supreme Court made that choice so there isn't much to do there.

But there has to be some way of treating the addict, or counseling the mentally ill rather than lock them up. We probably can't afford to build a new jail in every county. But we all know cases where people who do commit violent crimes are let loose early and do them again. Those are the people that need to stay locked away, not a simple drug addict or even a drug seller (as long as no violent history).

Bigger jails stand as monuments to Indiana's failures as incarceration rate keeps climbing

Indiana's jails are largely filled with people arrested on relatively minor charges and often related to drugs or mental illness.

www.indystar.com

When I was a kid, my dad would go see patients once a week at Central State Hospital in Indy. (This was a mental institution, for those that don't know). I was drug along with him during the summer or off school days. I found the place pretty terrifying as a kid, it seemed more like a jail.... filled with horribly mentally ill folks... even today it seems something out of a scene from a horror film, in my mind. Old, antiquated facility, literal jail like structure, medical facilities ripped right from the 1950s. To my dad it was no big deal, just patients.

I'm not sure what was done there was better or worse than today

 

[Stuffshot]

Law enforcement are public employees. To raise salaries, you need funds. You raise taxes and certain people who “back the blue” will get pissed.

Money is the same reason the conduct of our elections is so informal.

Taxpayers don't want to pay for a TSA-style screening in order to vote for something like County Commissioner, District 4, which is conducted in the same election as President and the other national offices.

The claimers of election fraud in 2020 have elevated the importance of election security far higher than the willingness of those same Red State Republicans to pay for what would be necessary to give them the election security they claim they want,

So, instead, they blame Democrats.

 

[twenty02]

Money is the same reason the conduct of our elections is so informal.

Taxpayers don't want to pay for a TSA-style screening in order to vote for something like County Commissioner, District 4, which is conducted in the same election as President and the other national offices.

The claimers of election fraud in 2020 have elevated the importance of election security far higher than the willingness of those same Red State Republicans to pay for what would be necessary to give them the election security they claim they want,

So, instead, they blame Democrats.

The issue is that taxation generally feels very detached from results, particularly when most of ones tax dollars go to the Feds... only to be "washed" and later granted back to the states, under Federal guidelines.

When voters have to put up or shut up in local elections.....re: local referendums. More often than not the tax hike is approved.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

It's already either legal.... or de facto legal in most of the country.

Not in Indiana

 

[Marvin the Martian]

When I was a kid, my dad would go see patients once a week at Central State Hospital in Indy. (This was a mental institution, for those that don't know). I was drug along with him during the summer or off school days. I found the place pretty terrifying as a kid, it seemed more like a jail.... filled with horribly mentally ill folks... even today it seems something out of a scene from a horror film, in my mind. Old, antiquated facility, literal jail like structure, medical facilities ripped right from the 1950s. To my dad it was no big deal, just patients.

I'm not sure what was done there was better or worse than today

I had a friend in high school. One day he stopped showing up, his parents said he was away. In 11th grade he returned, working pretty much full time, living alone in an apartment and going to high school. His parents had a lot of problems and blamed him and had him committed there. He would get discharged and get emancipated. We are still friends. He did not talk much about it, but what he did say did not sound pleasant.

But overall there has to be something between prison which is useless for mentally ill conditions and Central State.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

It's so dumb not to legalize it

I dunno about that. Pharmacies are cutting hours and some are closing because of no staff. There is no staff because workers, and potential workers, can't piss a clean sample. They can't piss a clean sample because of legal and plentiful weed.

If you think the answer is to hire hibitual weed users to dispense narcotics, we can have that discussion. But I don't think its a good idea.Addiction and the desire to get high is just to overwhelming for many people, especially now since we are bombarded every day with all kinds of BS like the world is going to end if we don't drive a Tesla, you are facing a "winter of death" if you are not vaxed, or you are worthless racist SOB if you don't apoligize for having white skin. We are immersed in an asymetrical screw up.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I had a friend in high school. One day he stopped showing up, his parents said he was away. In 11th grade he returned, working pretty much full time, living alone in an apartment and going to high school. His parents had a lot of problems and blamed him and had him committed there. He would get discharged and get emancipated. We are still friends. He did not talk much about it, but what he did say did not sound pleasant.

But overall there has to be something between prison which is useless for mentally ill conditions and Central State.

Mental health is an issue but it's small compared to drugs. I know a fair bit about drug court. What Mark said earlier in this thread about addiction is really interesting. The timing of addiction and recovery doesn't necessarily jive with the time strictures of court. And prosecutors, judges and lawyers need to clear shit. They can't wait around for recovery. Nor do they know anything about treatment. So there's an inherent disconnect between treatment and "punishment" and the courts. I don't know how you solve that.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

But overall there has to be something between prison which is useless for mentally ill conditions and Central State.

There is. But it is all voluntary. SCOTUS held a long time ago that committments can't be forced without a showing of potential harm to self or others. It's a tough problem. The only thing government can force is prison for law breakers or mental healt confinement for those who pose a harm to self or others. Everybody else get's nothin' unless they want it and they usually don't want it.