If Indiana adopted the oad model would you buy in?
- Thread starter Wall2Boogie
- Start date
More BS. The reason they became great players was because Knight forged a championship team with them. Jordan and Worthy vs Dakich and Alford. Come on.
And I’ve never said you can’t win without OAD players. In fact I’ve said the opposite. The odds are better every year that a team without them will win more than the 10-15 school who have them. Basic statistics.
Virginia got a lot of good bounces. Duke did not. That’s basketball. What’s important is putting your program in a position to get those good bounces each year. And that’s what Elite talent gives you. A chance every single year.
Well, as much as it causes me to vomit in my mouth a little, I happen to agree with this, and argued as such against more than a few internet posters, all of who were more RMK fans than IU fans (or alum).
That being said, there is no debate that RMK got more out of his players than just about any coach in the history of the game, through his knowledge, innovation, and motivational techniques. I think it can be more fairly said that RMK won big when his best players were able to handle playing for him.
You only have to look at his first year at TT to see what he could do with a team that fully bought in to what he was doing.
I would always take superior talent if you could recruit it.
There are more UVA type talented teams that didnt win. But not many Duke type talent teams that did not win. So from that standpoint by pure number of teams with the same talent model favor UVA. UVA has had a lot of seasons with similar talent that never won. It took multiple last second buzzer beaters for UVA to win it. That is a lot of good fortune and luck to win several games in a row that they could have easily lost.
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Knight signed at least one McDonalds AA nearly every year. Get a clue.
You must not have teens in the house.Sorry, can't understand your "blog speech".
Complete sentences are unhip.
What’s ironic is the fact that we’re on an IU site talking about how to win championships, and we have a clown for a coach who can’t even make the tournament with a loaded roster of talent AND experience. And some people still adamantly support the coach. That’s what’s baffling.
And there it is...a full swan dive back into Douche Lake.
I prefer having a multi year plan for a championship without OAD’s and believe that to be the best strategy.
Gotta love the five star fan boys.
I will speak to a sports company about a mass mailing to this board offering used Zion jocks. Bonanza marketing opportunity.
Poor Steph Curry from a disadvantaged star background.
What a bunch of morons we are for thinking any team would be happy to have Zion.
There's a difference between signing Zion Williamson in a single class and basing your whole recruiting philosophy/annual roster construction on the top 10-15 high school players in the country. Schools like UK and Duke have adopted that model and can get away with it. A school like IU can't. Tom Crean was notorious for chasing stars rather than assembling a core roster, it's why he had so many inconsistent results. I would hope Archie offers the 5* kids that Indiana has a realistic chance of getting (and far the most part he has), but I don't want him to abandon constructing a roster made up of 3-4 year players.
Please tell me you understand the difference?
You are what you are and no reason to be really ashamed about it because you are the norm now. You believe that you total the stars of the players you get and then it’s hang the banner if you have the most stars. If you don’t in fact hang the banner then it was bad bounces and bad calls.
I looked at the star ratings for likely Golden State starters against Toronto and they are as follow
Steph Curry zero stars-unrated nationally
Klay Thompson 4 stars
Draymond Green 3 stars
Andrew Igoudala 4 stars or Alfonzo McKinnie 2 stars
Andrew Bogut-unrated Australia
Only nine-eleven stars-sh&t
Raptors starters follow-
Kyle Lowery 5 stars
Danny Green 4 star
Kahwi Leonard 4 stars
Marc Gosol unrated Spain
Pascal Siakan Unrated out of Dallas 0 stars
Raptors have 13 stars. I don’t see how Steph Curry can even hope to compete in the series. He is hugely outstarred.
Just to note Fred Vanvleet was 3 stars out of High school.
Steph Curry zero stars-unrated nationally
Klay Thompson 4 stars
Draymond Green 3 stars
Andrew Igoudala 4 stars or Alfonzo McKinnie 2 stars
Andrew Bogut-unrated Australia
Only nine-eleven stars-sh&t
Raptors starters follow-
Kyle Lowery 5 stars
Danny Green 4 star
Kahwi Leonard 4 stars
Marc Gosol unrated Spain
Pascal Siakan Unrated out of Dallas 0 stars
Raptors have 13 stars. I don’t see how Steph Curry can even hope to compete in the series. He is hugely outstarred.
Just to note Fred Vanvleet was 3 stars out of High school.
I could see
I can see the rationale in bringing in a OAD as a Hail Mary. If a coach had zero confidence in his roster and no confidence in his overall future recruiting then why not throw the Hail Mary and try to save his job.
Since this thread was started by a UK fan I decided to look at a UK forum and as soon as I opened it I started feeling ill (it was like spinning tea cups after 7 cheap margaritas and four Budweiser’s with a shot of ouzo sick). Cutesy cats this and cutesy cats that. The last post I looked at (call it 45 seconds after I opened the forum) was this-
“Paying the players is the best way imo
I want the best players in the college game.
If you can’t afford to pay your players then maybe you shouldn’t have a team. Way too many division 1 teams as it is.”
Now I understand why UK fans hang here. What disgusting tripe. An NCAA lifetime ban would be justified just from their forum. Like a bunch of corrupt freakin kindergarteners for goodness sake.
“Paying the players is the best way imo
I want the best players in the college game.
If you can’t afford to pay your players then maybe you shouldn’t have a team. Way too many division 1 teams as it is.”
Now I understand why UK fans hang here. What disgusting tripe. An NCAA lifetime ban would be justified just from their forum. Like a bunch of corrupt freakin kindergarteners for goodness sake.
It's not a matter of "adopting" that model, you're being dense. We couldn't land that many Top 15 players even if we wanted to.
But when one wants to come here, it's pretty much always stupid to say no.
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Maybe you should send a letter to Coach K, Calipari, Self, Roy, etc and let them know about your revolutionary better system. Obviously those morons need enlightened. Who would’ve known you’re so much smarter than Coach K?
Bennett and Beard sent those letters earlier this year. You may have missed. Coach K had top starred player (Barrett), second starred player Reddish), and fifth starred player (Zion), and cant even make it to the final four. MSU for goodness sake knocked him on his baseball cards.
I think UK alumni are sending these letters to Calipari who has no championship now in 8 years. That is 56 years in dog years and Cat years.
Self has had no championships in going on 12 years so he may be getting the message.
You need a very good coach like RMK or Brad Stevens or Bennett or Beard to be successful with a multi year strategy and most coaches try the shortcut and that is starting to blow up in their faces. Most IU fans love basketball as a sport and not as a PR entertainment extravaganza. Other schools have shallower fans that love to make cute signs and try to be seen on TV and so love the PR extravaganzas. IU has fans that grew up with basketball and love it as a sport.
Edit Note: I left CAM off the above list of coaches who can use a multi year strategy and would hope that he would be on that list.
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When the NBA championship series tips off there will only be 1 five star player on the court-Kyle Lowery. I watched him play often for the Rockets and like him as a tough gritty player but he’s not even in the same zip code as Steph Curry who had 0.0 stars.
What? The title of this thread (and ensuing dialogue) is "If Indiana adopted the OAD model, would you buy-in"?
You can 100% still recruit 5*, OAD type kids (assuming the fit is right) without completely selling out and adopting a Duke or UK style model. It isn't an all or nothing approach. You, along with others, don't seem to understand that. It works for nationally prominent programs like Duke and Kentucky whose name recruits itself, but it doesn't work for programs like IU. If you look at some of the most consistent (and best) basketball programs over the last 5-6 years (Virginia, Villanova, MSU, etc), you'll notice none of those programs sell out and exclusively chase 5*, OAD talent. Rather, they build the foundation of their roster with 3-4 year players and bridge the talent gap with one or two 5*, OAD type kids. This concept isn't that hard really. Or is it?
And I'm not sure where you get the idea that nobody wants to come here? Hasn't IU signed a 5*/McDonald's AA in consecutive classes?
You're arguing with yourself, the thread premise itself is stupid as I said on page 2.
On social or political websites Godwin’s Law applies (as the discussion progresses one party will call the other party a Nazi). The person deemed a Nazi (or Hitler) won the discussion since the accuser has nothing reasonable to say.
On basketball bulletin boards it is different and so a corollary is required-
When someone is accused of being clueless, delusional, etc etc etc. He is deemed to have won the discussion because the accuser just has nothing reasonable to say. Let’s call it Knight’s Law on basketball message boards.
fpeaugh lost this discussion by invocation of Knight’s Law.
I’ve given you plenty of free education on this topic. I can’t help that you’re unwilling to learn.
Okay then educate me a little more please. Why is it that so many five stars (the base OAD’s) are mediocre in college and suck in the pros.
For example you think it is a plot by the delusional (like myself) against OAD’s?
or
Do you think the people assigning, the “experts”, assigning these ratings barely know their ass from a hat and a large percentage of these ratings is PR BS that alumni and fanboys see as a divine message.
or other.
A common comment here seems to be that you recruit the best players with a bias that those players are the OAD’s (the five stars). Most of these five stars never pan out.
I haven’t looked at it but in a typical class you may actually have zero to say two players that will really be top players the others are more chaff.
At the same time there are many lower rated players that will really excel in college and the pros.
When Calipari first started an NBA Junior program it was brilliant for championship basketball. He had a psychological advantage against opponents that is no longer there. In addition he had a couple players that did excel in college and the pros. Now the luster is off this approach and everyone knows that a seasoned older team can beat an OAD dominant team. Last year’s Duke team is the archetypical team in this regard.
You may say well K does it or C does it so it must be right and so you are an idiot. Look for yourself at the performance of five star classes.
Look for yourself at many of the top players in the NBA that weren’t five star.
When looking at it quickly it seems to me that these ratings tend to overrate height/strength and underrate shooters.
Just a quick look shows these “experts” blow in general.
I
The only problem with this approach is that most five star kids will underperform your five star expectations but at the same time need to be featured or their family/entourage and maybe media are after the coaches head and the five star is sulking and spreading poison in the locker room.
Cant blame the five star. He generally has a lot of people depending on a pro contract and most of all his family and he has been anointed by the “experts”. Since he is the only OAD he must be the focus.
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That's why you find the right fit. Jalen Brunson was a 5* and stayed three years. Yogi and Zeller were 5* players who didn't act like this. Hell Zion Williamson was a 5* and looked like he thoroughly enjoyed playing in college and wasn't a distraction or cancer to his team.
Find yourself a 5* player who may be a OAD but fits your team and culture and that is willing to buy in, and you're good to go.
Steph Curry was too small and scrawny in HS to be considered a 5* player. The game has changed now relying more on the 3 point shot for offense. Foreign players are not ranked unless they come to the USA for HS. There are a lot of great shooters in NAIA that are deemed too small or not athletic enough for D1.
Yogi wasnt a consensus five star. I just looked and he was rated 4 star by espn (lower by Scout) and never had any OAD goal I don’t believe. He didn’t even get drafted as a graduating senior and worked his butt off to get in the league through the back door. I think he played for the Mavericks first and having Cuban there didn’t hurt I am sure.
Fred vanVleet was in Yogi’s class and rated much lower.
They didn’t win a championship with Zeller who even stayed an extra year (AD et al from KY were in the draft after his freshman year). He has been so so in the pros.
So no championship in college and so so in the pros. I dont think either one was recruited to fill a hole for a championship run.
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