If a five star like Isiah Thomas in a heart beat but if a five star like Sherron Wilkerson then absolutely not.
If Indiana adopted the oad model would you buy in?
- Thread starter Wall2Boogie
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That’s the point, a 5 star is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re gonna get. The good need is you wouldn’t be the only one that missed on him
So in your reality, a 4 star comes in, works his but off as a freshman, becomes a monster in his second year, but is labeled a "commitment breaker" when he decides to leave for a lottery slot after his Sophmore year, without a championship.
Why do you feel as if these players owe you something?
You’re just a selfish fan. That’s the reality here. You don’t give a rip what’s best for these kids. You don’t give a rip what’s best for their families. You don’t give a rip that these kids have dreams and abilities to provide for their loved ones and often times bring generations of people out of poverty.
You don’t care about any of that. You selfishly care about your own happiness. It’s a zero sum game to you. That’s what everything you say boils down to. Get a life man.
Thx for your answer. I appreciate it. I need to mull this over.
Cal would be doing this for you
Say what you want about Cal, I respect that he pushes his players out the door when that is what’s best for them.
As opposed to Izzo and Roy who enjoy guilting them into sticking around.
Spot on post. I know cal is the enemy here but he does want what’s best for his players. He doesn’t hold anyone back and let’s them make their decision. I think he gives them advice, but ultimately it’s their choice and he encourages it. I’m not sure how the other two mange to hold on to top players 3-4 years.
The deal on the whole OAD vs the best talent that I haven't seen on this thread is a simple point...that is each season is it's own entity.
Universally you want the best talent of that specific season.
How many freshman are the actual best players in a certain season? Not potentially better, not with the most upside...the end of the day you want the best players in the pool for that specific year.
I believe the statistics are going to lean still that upperclassmen are better than freshman in general.
Which is the catch of the OAD....you only get them for their freshman year.
I can't remember the last time a freshman was on the Big 10 first team. Sullinger maybe??
So the real question is who has a better chance of having the best players for one specific year...developing multi year guys who become upperclassmen or constantly bringing in an army of 18 year olds?
Like I said, I believe the numbers are going to lean towards upperclassmen on the ultimate overall college player ranking for a season.
Universally you want the best talent of that specific season.
How many freshman are the actual best players in a certain season? Not potentially better, not with the most upside...the end of the day you want the best players in the pool for that specific year.
I believe the statistics are going to lean still that upperclassmen are better than freshman in general.
Which is the catch of the OAD....you only get them for their freshman year.
I can't remember the last time a freshman was on the Big 10 first team. Sullinger maybe??
So the real question is who has a better chance of having the best players for one specific year...developing multi year guys who become upperclassmen or constantly bringing in an army of 18 year olds?
Like I said, I believe the numbers are going to lean towards upperclassmen on the ultimate overall college player ranking for a season.
He is freely entitled to not enter into an agreement and take his talents elsewhere before he enters into the agreement. It’s his decision.
Five star Lowery only had 7 points last night while that talentless zero star Curry had 34. This must be a delusional plot against five star fanboy expert central (also known as college basketball central casting).
Non 5 star players scored a total of 220 points while 5 star players scored a whopping 7 points in the NBA playoff championship series.
Maybe you can win basketball games without five star players.
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A zero sum game was when the winning sperm (I gotta break it to you that it wasn’t five star) and that hapless egg united to form the ovum that became you fanboy.
You look at these players just as commodities. You have the standard five star package and the standard four star package etc and you plug and play. Easy Peasy
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There are differences between five stars. Isiah wasn’t a box of chocolates. RMK recruited him harder probably then any other recruit while at IU. He was great in his first game at IU. Sherron on the other hand walked off the court angry in the IU KY all star game his senior year in HS and quit the all star team because the coach took him out of the game. Five Stars have individual differences that can be apparent
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This is a new low in self delusion. You look at club teams in places like Greece, Lebanon etc you will find Calipari early entries that didn’t make it in the NBA struggling to make a living. Teagues, Lamb, Miller, Orton, etc
You will see some of these guys had stints with the mighty Fort Wayne Ants.
He has put a few good players in the league but more that struggle in leagues outside the NBA. AD, Wall, Towns and Cousins are very good NBA players but many more than that couldn’t cut it
I haven’t looked but Pitino likely put about the same number of high quality NBA players in the league over a similar number of seasons.
AD is in a class by himself. I can’t think of any UK player nearly as good as him. Jamal Mashburn likely second.
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I agree, I had when a kid leaves for the sake of the quick buck. We don’t know their reasons for doing so either. Some just seem to want that small amount of money now instead of waiting another yr to get it. What’s cal supposed to do, deny them of their dreams and say no, you can’t leave yet you won’t make it a yr? He lets them make that choice.
Guys like Teague won a title, and the number 1 guard, you take that chance. Miller was a senior and a damn good one and still plays in the league. Lambs stock was never getting any higher. Orton made a bad decision
No I understand that there’s two sides to everything. And I realize how hard these kids work to provide better lives for themselves and their families. You selfishly don’t care about that. I look at them as human kids. You look at them as pawns for your own selfish desires. Like a child would.
Thank you for a reasoned response and leaving your thread now. All the others have to offer are common message board juvenile BS. That is what happens when a one star sperm wins the race.
Conservatively speaking Calipari has produced 5x the number of NBA players as Pitino has in the last 10 years. It’s not even close. Not even a debate. Calipari has 30 former players in the NBA RIGHT NOW.
THIRTY!
The entire UofL program has 6. SIX!
And you decide to list 3 players who didn’t work out as proof that more fail than make it? Can you count to 30?
Get a grip buddy.
This was a valid concern-he cant stay on the court and this with very few NBA miles on his knees.
I’m not at all buying the ‘Cal is so altruistic’ thinking here. He keeps the factory going by putting more and more guys into the League. And let’s face it, they were already 5 stars coming in and would most likely be NBA-bound no matter where they went. So he encourages kids to declare knowing that they will be replaced by more five stars. What a sacrifice.
Exactly.
Which is why feepaw’s claim that “Calipari has produced” is such a farce. Very few kids he’s had could one make a legitimate argument they’ve been drafted because of how he impacted their ability. He provides a showcase, but actually to say he “produces” is BS.
Jealousy on your part. Cal has produced first round picks out of kids that were never expected to go pro in their first year. That is simply a fact. You do not have to like it but you are arguing over something that is senseless. Herro was a four star. Why didn't IU recruit him. Same with SGA, Ulis , WCS and several others. To my knowledge, there was a total lack of interest in those guys from IU.
Lol
Someone posted on this after you. In seeing that post I saw yours - and your BS.
Sorry to deprive you of that last word, Nancy.
Not hardly.
This isn’t about IU recruiting/not recruiting. It’s about the myth that Calipari “produces” all these NBA draft picks. It is exactly that.
The star system is for fanboys that know little about basketball. I watched videos of Herro in high school and he was as good a guard as any in the country.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
Herro was very enjoyable to watch while he was at UK. I didn't think they deserved him. He looks like a very tough minded young man. I saw one of the Heat games last week and you could tell that he has,"it". He's got the mindset and physical tools to play the game the right way.
And in your delusional mind Calipari just “tricks” these kids into buying his sales pitch and then adds no value to them. Suuuurrrreeee.
Since the inception of the OAD rule, there have been 334 McDonald’s All-Americans.
- 170 have went to a school as the Lone Wolf McD AA in that recruiting class
- 78 have went to a school as part of a Dynamic Duo
- 51 have been part of a Terrific Triplets class
- 24 have been part of a Quartet of Doom class
- 5 have been part of a Fab Five Redux class
- 6 have been part of a Sinister Six
So how have these potential OAD candidates fared in taking their respective schools to glory in their frosh seasons? I’m only giving them credit if they averaged 20 minutes per game as frosh… lets take a look.
- Of the 170 Lone Wolfs, 5 have reached the Final Four in their frosh season with no National Titles. Villanova’s Jalen Brunson stuck around a few years and eventually got a Title, but Taz Mitchel, Malachai Richardson, Kevin Love and Derrick Rose each fell short of hoisting the trophy. So just under 3% of Lone Wolf’s ever reached the Final Four
- Of the 78 Dynamic Duo’s, 4 have reached the Final Four. Oden and Conley were both integral parts of Ohio State’s run to the Title game. Kasey Hill stuck around and made it back to the Elite Eight as a Senior. Chane Behanan won the Title as a Soph, but eventually had it “stripped” and was dismissed from the team as a Junior.
- Of the 51 Terrific Triplets, 3 have reached the Final Four and they all played on the same team. Big Blue’s Terrence Jones, Brandon Knight and Doran Lamb reached the Final Four as frosh, with Jones and Lamb returning as soph’s (due to the financial windfall of the NBA’s cba that year) to bring home a banner.
- So far unless you are a part of one of the greatest recruiting hauls of all time (4 or more Burger Boys in one class) the returns have not been that grand. That’s 299 McD AA’s, with 12 reaching the Final Four and zero frosh year National Titles.
- Before we get to the Quartet of Doom grouping, Lets look back into history to put this type of class into perspective. Prior to Cal and K hitting eight dingers combined in the past 10 years, only UNC and Michigan had ever landed 4 Burger Boys in one class… ever. They got one each in successive seasons way back in 1990 and 91. UNC reached the Final Four with only Eric Montross logging more than 10 minutes per game (15.2) as frosh, but a National Title was looming. Michigan’s fabled Fab Five (only 4 of which were McD’s) famously flopped as soph’s to that same UNC group (now juniors) on Webber’s ill fated TO.
- Okay, so Quartets of Doom are rare but lethal both nowadays and in olden times. Of the 24 since the OAD era began, 10 have been integral parts of Final Four teams and 6 have been integral in hanging a banner. UK and Duke have each had two Quartets of Doom, with UK getting two F4’s and a Natty, while the Blue Devils garnered a F4 and a Natty.
- As for the Fab Five Redux, there was only 1. UK stumbled into the Tourney with a #5 Seed and was unceremoniously bounced by Bruce Webber’s K-State squad.
- The Sinister Six is once again a group of 1. This UK squad bumbled and stumbled it’s way to a #8 seeding, but put it all together in a breathtaking charge to the Title game loss to Kevin Ollie’s U-Conn Huskies.
To tie it all together, if you can get one of the greatest recruiting classes of all time… go for it. Even then the ride can be a bit bumpy, but the numbers look pretty good.
Outside of the rarest of recruiting classes, the potential OAD candidates have not proved worth their hire.
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Very interesting, thanks for posting this. Going from these numbers it looks like 4 great freshmen gives you the best chance. This is probably due to a good mix of experience (looking at the schools that's also talented experience) and the influx of young talent. More than that likely results in a team which is talented but too young. I can think of several possible reasons for the groups of less than 4 to not go far, ranging from not enough talent/experience around them to selfish play to injuries (especially in the "Lone Wolf" case). Interesting to think about.
Great research and interesting data. Thanks for sharing. Well written as well.
Does he add value? Certainly.
But he is not this magical “producer” of draft picks. 90% plus of the kids that head to Lexington would be drafted if they went to Ball State or Valparaiso.
If he was truly "developing" them you wouldn't see them on the draft list before they signed with UK. Which a majority of them were.
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The overall numbers don’t favor OAD’s either. There are maybe 10 teams a year (guessing) with a OAD. There are 50ish other Power 5 (6) schools they are competing against.
Thanks for the information. I do disagree with your conclusion. I think the only conclusion you can draw from the information is it’s still extremely unlikely you are going to win a national title with OADs.
No one said they wouldn’t.
But if you only have one year and you want to be pushed in practice every day, you want to prepare for the NBA with other future NBA players, you want to be showcased on national TV as much as possible, and you want to be guaranteed to have a chance to make a deep NCAA run in that one single year, there’s nowhere better to go than UK, Duke, UNC, or Kansas. That’s what you don’t understand. And that’s why it continues to happen year after year after year. Because these kids don’t care about your biases.
So since you can't show your face on the football board I see you need to double down on your IU trashing here.
