I didn't think high rated kids stayed in state?

[fpeaugh]

Money has nothing to do with winning. Bill Gates has more because he is smarter. If TC is making more its because he did something you or I didn't. Complaining is only sour grapes.

I've never said I'm a better coach than TC or that I personally could do a better job than he has. What I am saying is if IU is willing to pay top 10 money they should get a better coach than TC. Plenty of coaches out there who can do a better job.

A first year med school student could perform heart surgery better than I could. That doesn't mean I want he or she operating on me. There are plenty of more qualified people out there who can do it. Doesn't have to be me. Has nothing to do with sour grapes.

 

[becauseIknow]

I've never said I'm a better coach than TC or that I personally could do a better job than he has. What I am saying is if IU is willing to pay top 10 money they should get a better coach than TC. Plenty of coaches out there who can do a better job.

A first year med school student could perform heart surgery better than I could. That doesn't mean I want he or she operating on me. There are plenty of more qualified people out there who can do it. Doesn't have to be me. Has nothing to do with sour grapes.

IU had to pay top 10 money to get the program out of the stink it was in. Why is this hard for you to process?

 

[becauseIknow]

You are the only one here who cares if Bo cheats on his wife....why you do is beyond me. You sound like my 15yr old daughter and her friends gossiping about their classmates

That's a limited list of players stretched over a very long period of time.,,.but good effort

I cared because he was using state funds to hide his actions. I cared because he wasn't letting players transfer because they were not loyal to him, while he was being disloyal to his wife. That's a major peeve of mine as I have never cheated on my wife. I cared because though the guy is a great basketball coach, he is an awful human being. A close relative of mine lives there and the stories are endless about what a scumbag human being he is. That is why I care.

 

[becauseIknow]

Let's see the greatest player ever produced by the list you gave me was say Jim Chones many years he would not even be Mr. Basketball in Indiana I lived in Wisconsin for several years and there is a big gap between the two states. If Indiana played Wisconsin in an All Star game similar to Kentucky the results would be the same Indiana would sweep most years. The list you provided can't compare to Oscar, Bird, McGinnis, Witteman, Skiles etc.
Neither does Wisconsin have a history of success against IU except against TC ....................................................

Wisconsin doesn't have a history of success against anyone from 1955 until 2000, and now a great success against just about everyone. To imply that it was just against TC is beyond stupid. They are a Final Four type program now. This year they could go to their third Final Four in four seasons. So for you to make this claim like it is just against TC is plain stupid. Look at their success against every other school when they used to do nothing. I'll bet if you look at what Boise State did in football in the 1980's through 2000 it would be different too. Come on man, you're smarter than this.

I didn't say Wisconsin has better talent than Indiana, but they have very good talent. The gap isn't what you suggest it to be. Not any more.

 

[becauseIknow]

You act like he's only been coaching 4-5yrs. It's been 17yrs with one trip past the S16.....that's 16yrs of real bad luck, poor TC

Good thing he wasn't having to rebuild two programs in that time period and had no shot of going to the NCAA tournament in 5 or 6 of those years. Nah, let's not factor that in. Another agenda post by you.

 

[TheSpa]

IU had to pay top 10 money to get the program out of the stink it was in. Why is this hard for you to process?

Yet, eight years later, they still don't have anything approaching a top ten program even though, as you've acknowledged, they've paid top ten money to Crean.

 

[TheSpa]

I cared because he was using state funds to hide his actions. I cared because he wasn't letting players transfer because they were not loyal to him, while he was being disloyal to his wife. That's a major peeve of mine as I have never cheated on my wife. I cared because though the guy is a great basketball coach, he is an awful human being. A close relative of mine lives there and the stories are endless about what a scumbag human being he is. That is why I care.

What proof can you offer that he was using state funds in a cover up? No such proof has been unearthed, Jim.

 

[becauseIknow]

Yet, eight years later, they still don't have anything approaching a top ten program even though, as you've acknowledged, they've paid top ten money to Crean.

Anything approaching a top ten program? Well, in three of the last four years they have been one of the last 16 teams standing. So they've finished 9th through 16th in three of those 4 years. Not sure how 9th through 16th still doesn't have anything approaching a top program. Another laughable comment by you.

Two Big Ten championships in the last four years. Yes, sure sounds like we aren't doing anything good. (Do I need to put sarcasm icon on this?)

 

[becauseIknow]

What proof can you offer that he was using state funds in a cover up? No such proof has been unearthed, Jim.

There is a standing lawsuit as we speak. The athletic department investigated itself, and the fox said nothing bad was going on in the hen house. Imagine that. Let's see where the lawsuit by one of his mistresses plays out.

 

[TheSpa]

Anything approaching a top ten program? Well, in three of the last four years they have been one of the last 16 teams standing. So they've finished 9th through 16th in three of those 4 years. Not sure how 9th through 16th still doesn't have anything approaching a top program. Another laughable comment by you.

Two Big Ten championships in the last four years. Yes, sure sounds like we aren't doing anything good. (Do I need to put sarcasm icon on this?)

They've been soundly defeated once they made it to the Sweet 16. It's clearly their high water mark and an obvious indication that they aren't a top ten program, Jim. Teams that don't play defense rarely approach top ten status. Even you should be able to understand that fact.

 

[TheSpa]

There is a standing lawsuit as we speak. The athletic department investigated itself, and the fox said nothing bad was going on in the hen house. Imagine that. Let's see where the lawsuit by one of his mistresses plays out.

So where's the proof? You claimed "he was using state funds to hide his actions." Can you prove it, are you just guessing, or are you simply telling more lies?

 

[becauseIknow]

They've been soundly defeated once they made it to the Sweet 16. It's clearly their high water mark and an obvious indication that they aren't a top ten program, Jim. Teams that don't play defense rarely approach top ten status. Even you should be able to understand that fact.

Hey Jim, many teams are soundly defeated in the NCAA tournament. Ask Oklahoma this year. Even you should be able to understand that, Jim. Now, Jim, when you make a dumb statement that we aren't anywhere close to a top 10 program, yet 75% of the time in the last 4 years we have finished between 9th and 16th, do you think Jim you may wish to modify your dumb statement? To add to it, IU lost to eventual Final Four, National Championship teams. This mean on a ranking scale for tournament finishes, IU would finish 9th, 10th, or 11th/12th in those years. Yet, you say this isn't anywhere close to a top 10 program. Throw in the two Big Ten titles.

Yes, facts aren't your strong suit, Jim. Are they, Jim?

 

[TheSpa]

Hey Jim, many teams are soundly defeated in the NCAA tournament. Ask Oklahoma this year. Even you should be able to understand that, Jim. Now, Jim, when you make a dumb statement that we aren't anywhere close to a top 10 program, yet 75% of the time in the last 4 years we have finished between 9th and 16th, do you think Jim you may wish to modify your dumb statement? To add to it, IU lost to eventual Final Four, National Championship teams. This mean on a ranking scale for tournament finishes, IU would finish 9th, 10th, or 11th/12th in those years. Yet, you say this isn't anywhere close to a top 10 program. Throw in the two Big Ten titles.

Yes, facts aren't your strong suit, Jim. Are they, Jim?

So, since you were previously JimTV and we've referred to you by that name, now you're calling several of us Jim? That's brilliant, if wholly dishonest and insincere.

As for the state of the program, it's not close to top ten even though the coach earns top ten money. After eight years. That Big Ten championship you find so satisfying? It netted IU a 5th seed in the NCAA tournament. Hardly recognition of a top ten program. JimTV.

 

[biggio7]

Wisconsin doesn't have a history of success against anyone from 1955 until 2000, and now a great success against just about everyone. To imply that it was just against TC is beyond stupid. They are a Final Four type program now. This year they could go to their third Final Four in four seasons. So for you to make this claim like it is just against TC is plain stupid. Look at their success against every other school when they used to do nothing. I'll bet if you look at what Boise State did in football in the 1980's through 2000 it would be different too. Come on man, you're smarter than this.

I didn't say Wisconsin has better talent than Indiana, but they have very good talent. The gap isn't what you suggest it to be. Not any more.

The gap is still there they just have better leadership granted they have had more success the last decade. But don't believe anyone else in the big ten has been manhandled by Wisconsin like good ole TC hell his number 1 ranked team got whipped twice by Bucky to make matters worse one in Bloomington the other in Indianapolis
I do believe we both want the same thing you have more faith it can be done with current leadership I don't after year 8 it is what it is. I think the Alabama Football example is a good one they had decent success (similar to TC) with Perkins and Shula etc.. but kept searching for a return to Blue Blood status it finally happened. It took them a while and good ole Nick is disliked by many but the folks in Alabama seem to enjoy Bowl Season better than most.....

 

[quad runner]

"IU is not a top school to recruits."

At least you guys are starting to acknowledge that. Now you just have to grips with WHY they don't - despite having a multitude of resources at their disposal.

IU has gone to 3 Sweet 16's and won 2 outright B1G titles in the past 5 seasons - yet cannot "lock down the borders" as Crean promised when he was hired. A kid just picked Louisville last week over IU and "it's because of the type of integrity" that they have.

When will the excuses stop? These kids don't take IU seriously because of Crean. That is the unvarnished truth, and although it's not comfortable to admit it's still the truth.

Tas is spot on. My take, and it may be way off, is that Scruggs really likes IU, but doesn't really want to play for TC. I have stated this before, but as a former HS coach in the state, I can tell you TC is not popular with most HS coaches. Not all, but most. If you doubt this, just sign up for the state clinic next April and walk around and listen.

 

[fpeaugh]

IU had to pay top 10 money to get the program out of the stink it was in. Why is this hard for you to process?

Wrong again. When IU first signed TC it wasn't for top 10 money. It was the two extensions that pushed him that high. And I'm not worried about the past. Going forward if IU is going to pay $3+ million per year, we should get someone a lot better than TC. Terrible value.

 

[IU Scott]

Hey Jim, many teams are soundly defeated in the NCAA tournament. Ask Oklahoma this year. Even you should be able to understand that, Jim. Now, Jim, when you make a dumb statement that we aren't anywhere close to a top 10 program, yet 75% of the time in the last 4 years we have finished between 9th and 16th, do you think Jim you may wish to modify your dumb statement? To add to it, IU lost to eventual Final Four, National Championship teams. This mean on a ranking scale for tournament finishes, IU would finish 9th, 10th, or 11th/12th in those years. Yet, you say this isn't anywhere close to a top 10 program. Throw in the two Big Ten titles.

Yes, facts aren't your strong suit, Jim. Are they, Jim?

Actually we made the sweet 16 3 of the last 5 years and not 3 out of 4 2012-13 and 2016. We did not make the tournament in 2014 and lost in the first round in 2015.

 

[IU Scott]

So, since you were previously JimTV and we've referred to you by that name, now you're calling several of us Jim? That's brilliant, if wholly dishonest and insincere.

As for the state of the program, it's not close to top ten even though the coach earns top ten money. After eight years. That Big Ten championship you find so satisfying? It netted IU a 5th seed in the NCAA tournament. Hardly recognition of a top ten program. JimTV.

Calm down OrdFan

 

[schmib]

My only question on that would be just how strong was the Big Ten over the past five years as opposed to the period after 1992. Pater? Help us out here.

The conference has won or tied in the Big Ten/ACC challenge every year since '09 after losing it every year for the first 10 years of it's existence. I know that may not be the ideal measure, but I think it shows that the Big is at a minimum not significantly worse now than it was then. Seven teams made the tourney last year.

 

[schmib]

Once again, who cares?

I care. Normal fans that care about how the team performs in the conference should care...

 

[TheSpa]

Calm down OrdFan

Unlike BIK, I'm not someone else. But maybe you could try to offer something of value, Scott, rather than what you always post.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

The conference has won or tied in the Big Ten/ACC challenge every year since '09 after losing it every year for the first 10 years of it's existence. I know that may not be the ideal measure, but I think it shows that the Big is at a minimum not significantly worse now than it was then. Seven teams made the tourney last year.

IU Basketball – Big 10 finish and conf rating after 1992:


1993 1st / conf rating N/A (but with IU, Michigan as #1 seeds in NCAA’s)


1994 3rd / conf rating N/A (but with Purdue as #1 seed in NCAA’s)


1995 T3rd / 5th


1996 2nd / 3rd


1997 T6th / 3rd


1998 T5th / 4th


1999 T2nd / 1st


2000 4th / 1st


2001 3rd / 1st


2002 T1st / 4th

2003 6th / 4th

2004 T8th / 6th

2005 T4th / 5th

2006 T4th / 1st

2007 T3rd / 5th





Now, IU basketball the last 5 years under Tom Crean:


2016 1st / 5th


2015 T7th / 4th


2014 T8th / 2nd


2013 1st / 1st


2012 5th / 1st


Now didn't you say this:

They've been better in conference play the past 5 years than at any point since Knight's last FF. That's just a fact.

So how are you defining “at any point”?

Crean has won an outright championship with the conference ranked 1st and 5th. Post 1992-Final Four IU won outright conference title in a year with two Big 10 #1 seeds in NCAA Tournament (rating not available) and shared a title a year the conference was 4th (team finished as National Runner-Up). Championships essentially a wash.


Look at the non championship years.

Crean has finished 5th, 8th and 7th – average finish of 7th

IU basketball post 1992 Final Four – average finish of 4th

The “facts” are right before you. And they don’t support what you say.

 

[becauseIknow]

Actually we made the sweet 16 3 of the last 5 years and not 3 out of 4 2012-13 and 2016. We did not make the tournament in 2014 and lost in the first round in 2015.

You are correct, my mistake. (must have been the cut and paste job I did / sarcasm).

 

[schmib]

IU Basketball – Big 10 finish and conf rating after 1992:


1993 1st / conf rating N/A (but with IU, Michigan as #1 seeds in NCAA’s)


1994 3rd / conf rating N/A (but with Purdue as #1 seed in NCAA’s)


1995 T3rd / 5th


1996 2nd / 3rd


1997 T6th / 3rd


1998 T5th / 4th


1999 T2nd / 1st


2000 4th / 1st


2001 3rd / 1st


2002 T1st / 4th

2003 6th / 4th

2004 T8th / 6th

2005 T4th / 5th

2006 T4th / 1st

2007 T3rd / 5th





Now, IU basketball the last 5 years under Tom Crean:


2016 1st / 5th


2015 T7th / 4th


2014 T8th / 2nd


2013 1st / 1st


2012 5th / 1st


Now didn't you say this:





So how are you defining “at any point”?

Crean has won an outright championship with the conference ranked 1st and 5th. Post 1992-Final Four IU won outright conference title in a year with two Big 10 #1 seeds in NCAA Tournament (rating not available) and shared a title a year the conference was 4th (team finished as National Runner-Up). Championships essentially a wash.


Look at the non championship years.

Crean has finished 5th, 8th and 7th – average finish of 7th

IU basketball post 1992 Final Four – average finish of 4th

The “facts” are right before you. And they don’t support what you say.

I'm not sure what you are disputing here. They have performed better in conference play over the past five years than at any five year period since '93-'94 if you measure by total wins or win percentage. Also by overall record.
The point is that the sky isn't falling. The team over the past five years has outperformed the team over any five year period over the past 20 years. They've been to the sweet 16 three times over the past five years, which is better than the 2 (!) times they were there from '93-94 to '10-11. The 2 conference championships they've enjoyed over the past 5 years trumps the 1 they've had over the previous 15+ years since '93-94. Also that one year over that timespan was a tie for 1st as opposed to the 2 outrights we've enjoyed recently.
The underlying point is that Tom Crean is not responsible for the decline of the program. It started a long time ago, under Bob Knight. By any measure - wins and losses, post-season accomplishments, performance in conference play, etc., Tom Crean has brought us to a level, like it or not, that we haven't been to in 20 years. That's the point.
Should we be satisfied with sweet 16s? Probably not if that's the ceiling. I happen to believe that's not the ceiling but that's a matter of opinion at this point.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Tas is spot on. My take, and it may be way off, is that Scruggs really likes IU, but doesn't really want to play for TC. I have stated this before, but as a former HS coach in the state, I can tell you TC is not popular with most HS coaches. Not all, but most. If you doubt this, just sign up for the state clinic next April and walk around and listen.

Thanks quad runner.

I've heard Scruggs was ready to commit to X, but was encouraged to continue to evaluate and compare schools. I also have been told Wilkes and Scruggs are seriously considering playing together in college, and that PS is trying to sway KW toward X.

I ran what I know past a media friend of mine last week concerning Scruggs and Wilkes. Their reply: "Scruggs was essentially a lock, and Wilkes is really looking at X."

Now, nothing is a guarantee at this point. KW has a great relationship with Eddie, and if UCLA was closer IMO they'd almost be a lock to sign him. But if you're hearing what I'm hearing, it ain't good for IU.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I'm not sure what you are disputing here. They have performed better in conference play over the past five years than at any five year period since '93-'94 if you measure by total wins or win percentage. Also by overall record.
The point is that the sky isn't falling. The team over the past five years has outperformed the team over any five year period over the past 20 years. They've been to the sweet 16 three times over the past five years, which is better than the 2 (!) times they were there from '93-94 to '10-11. The 2 conference championships they've enjoyed over the past 5 years trumps the 1 they've had over the previous 15+ years since '93-94. Also that one year over that timespan was a tie for 1st as opposed to the 2 outrights we've enjoyed recently.
The underlying point is that Tom Crean is not responsible for the decline of the program. It started a long time ago, under Bob Knight. By any measure - wins and losses, post-season accomplishments, performance in conference play, etc., Tom Crean has brought us to a level, like it or not, that we haven't been to in 20 years. That's the point.
Should we be satisfied with sweet 16s? Probably not if that's the ceiling. I happen to believe that's not the ceiling but that's a matter of opinion at this point.

I just showed you the facts.

You clearly stated "at any point". You're also taking into account that the one really great year under Crean (2013) was when they had Cody Zeller - and he (nor another kid like him) is walking into the locker room at Assembly Hal anytime soon.

But believe what you want to believe. But don't be surprised when the results don't change. That way Crean runs the program makes it likely that they won't.

 

[quad runner]

Thanks quad runner.

I've heard Scruggs was ready to commit to X, but was encouraged to continue to evaluate and compare schools. I also have been told Wilkes and Scruggs are seriously considering playing together in college, and that PS is trying to sway KW toward X.

I ran what I know past a media friend of mine last week concerning Scruggs and Wilkes. Their reply: "Scruggs was essentially a lock, and Wilkes is really looking at X."

Now, nothing is a guarantee at this point. KW has a great relationship with Eddie, and if UCLA was closer IMO they'd almost be a lock to sign him. But if you're hearing what I'm hearing, it ain't good for IU.

Kind the same - except I have heard if they play together IU may be the place as KW is not as sold on X as is PS - I guess we will see soon. But, with both kids liking IU, you would think we would be the team to beat -which is not the case.

 

[becauseIknow]

Wrong again. When IU first signed TC it wasn't for top 10 money. It was the two extensions that pushed him that high. And I'm not worried about the past. Going forward if IU is going to pay $3+ million per year, we should get someone a lot better than TC. Terrible value.

Actually, not wrong. You are wrong.

Crean was already a top 10 paid coach at Marquette. http://www.paywizard.org/main/salary/vip-check/marchmadnesssuccessprediction

He took a pay increase to come to IU, which would have kept him in the top 10 since he was already there in the top 10.

His contract in 2008, confirms this. http://www.insidethehall.com/2008/08/21/a-closer-look-at-tom-creans-10-year-deal/

It was later that additional extensions and dollars were added because the rebuild job was going to be more difficult than the university originally believed.

Sorry sir, but you are wrong. Again.

Of interesting note, for all those that bitch incessantly here about the Big Ten Tournament, the value (the incentive structure of the contract) IU puts on winning the BTT is much lower than the value for the Big Ten regular season. As it should be.

 

[becauseIknow]

The conference has won or tied in the Big Ten/ACC challenge every year since '09 after losing it every year for the first 10 years of it's existence. I know that may not be the ideal measure, but I think it shows that the Big is at a minimum not significantly worse now than it was then. Seven teams made the tourney last year.

All one has to do is look at the conference rankings. Either Ken Pom, Sagarin, RPI, or any other source. The Big Ten is much better since 2009 than it was most of the 2000 to 2008 period.

 

[schmib]

I just showed you the facts.

You clearly stated "at any point". You're also taking into account that the one really great year under Crean (2013) was when they had Cody Zeller - and he (nor another kid like him) is walking into the locker room at Assembly Hal anytime soon.

But believe what you want to believe. But don't be surprised when the results don't change. That way Crean runs the program makes it likely that they won't.

Crean has won more outright Big Ten Conference championships without Cody Zeller (1) than every other coach at IU combined since '93-'94.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Kind the same - except I have heard if they play together IU may be the place as KW is not as sold on X as is PS - I guess we will see soon. But, with both kids liking IU, you would think we would be the team to beat -which is not the case.

That's why I've heard he is "working on him".

Wilkes has an in-home with Mack on Sept 13th. We should know shortly after how Xavier should stand with him.

 

[TheSpa]

Actually, not wrong. You are wrong.

Crean was already a top 10 paid coach at Marquette. http://www.paywizard.org/main/salary/vip-check/marchmadnesssuccessprediction

He took a pay increase to come to IU, which would have kept him in the top 10 since he was already there in the top 10.

His contract in 2008, confirms this. http://www.insidethehall.com/2008/08/21/a-closer-look-at-tom-creans-10-year-deal/

It was later that additional extensions and dollars were added because the rebuild job was going to be more difficult than the university originally believed.

Sorry sir, but you are wrong. Again.

Of interesting note, for all those that bitch incessantly here about the Big Ten Tournament, the value (the incentive structure of the contract) IU puts on winning the BTT is much lower than the value for the Big Ten regular season. As it should be.

Crean wasn't extended because of some revelation that the rebuild would be more difficult or take longer than was originally thought. He was extended as a result of the perceived threat that he might be poached by another school or the NBA. Fred Glass was extremely concerned about continuity and the possibility of having to find yet another coach, and he extended Crean (with the support of the President and the Trustees) for that reason. The depth or duration of the "rebuild" wasn't the issue.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Crean has won more outright Big Ten Conference championships without Cody Zeller (1) than every other coach at IU combined since '93-'94.

Again, I've shown you the results. And they aren't changing. Believe what you want to believe.

 

[becauseIknow]

Crean wasn't extended because of some revelation that the rebuild would be more difficult or take longer than was originally thought. He was extended as a result of the perceived threat that he might be poached by another school or the NBA. Fred Glass was extremely concerned about continuity and the possibility of having to find yet another coach, and he extended Crean (with the support of the President and the Trustees) for that reason. The depth or duration of the "rebuild" wasn't the issue.

We agree on part of this, that was part of the issue, but you cannot separate the two. Your last sentence is false. When they realized what a cluster IU was, the chances of him bolting were good. So they made it very difficult for him to leave (large buyout) in return for security during the rebuild (large buyout for IU). However, the root of that came from how difficult the rebuild was going to be.

Now, all of this is beside the claim that Fpeaugh made, which is that he wasn't paid top 10 at the time. Yes he was.

 

[TheSpa]

We agree on part of this, that was part of the issue, but you cannot separate the two. Your last sentence is false. When they realized what a cluster IU was, the chances of him bolting were good. So they made it very difficult for him to leave (large buyout) in return for security during the rebuild (large buyout for IU). However, the root of that came from how difficult the rebuild was going to be.

Now, all of this is beside the claim that Fpeaugh made, which is that he wasn't paid top 10 at the time. Yes he was.

Crean was never going to leave because of the rebuild, something that both he and Glass knew would take time (it only became more extensive after Crean removed so many players from the program). Glass was concerned that others would come after Crean (this was fueled by Crean's representative) and that was the reason for the extension. Neither Crean nor Glass were suddenly shocked by the extent of the rebuild. In fact, Crean was secure enough in his original deal to gut the program to his satisfaction, which he did. He wasn't leaving after he blew it up unless someone backed up a Brink's truck to hire him. That's what Glass feared and that's why he was extended (and the buyout was imposed). The rebuild wasn't the issue.

 

[becauseIknow]

Great, I'm glad we can agree that Crean was already top 10 paid coach in the country, despite Fpeauh's claims.

Your claims about the poaching don't square with the timing of the first extension. You may want to check your calendar of events timeline.

 

[TheSpa]

Great, I'm glad we can agree that Crean was already top 10 paid coach in the country, despite Fpeauh's claims.

Your claims about the poaching don't square with the timing of the first extension. You may want to check your calendar of events timeline.

My claims of Glass's concerns are consistent with the facts, which is why you're struggling with them. As for Crean, he's obviously a top ten paid coach who's been unable to build a top ten program after eight years of trying, with no reasonable expectation that things will change under his leadership.

 

[Tony20]

Kyle Young just chose Butler over Ohio St and Purdue. Young was #3 player in Ohio and had an official visit scheduled with Matta in 2 weeks. Headed out of state to Butler. Shocking. Thought we were the only program who had in state kids leave.

 

[schmib]

Again, I've shown you the results. And they aren't changing. Believe what you want to believe.

You're being a bit selective in what facts you want to look at, to say the least.
Here's a few more facts: In the past 5 years at IU, we have won 27 games 3 times. In the period from '93-'94 to '10-'11 (18 years) we won 27 games 0 times. That's a fact. In the past 5 years, we've won outright titles twice. In the 18 before we won the outright title 0 times (we were in a 4-way tie for first once). That's a fact. In the past 5 years, we've finished in the top 20 in the AP poll 3 times. The 18 years previous, we finished in the top 20 a total of 4 times. We finished ranked higher than 18th 3 times in the past five years. We finished higher than 18th once since '93-'94 (we finished 18th in the AP in '94, 19th in '99, and 20th in '00.)
In the past five years, we have advanced to the sweet 16 3 times; the 18 years previous we advanced that far twice. The very best record over a five year stretch in those 18 years in conference was 54-34 from the '93-'94 season to '97-'98. We have gone 56-34 over the past five season in conference play. We went 5-3 against ranked opponents last season without your supposed Crean savior in Zeller.
These are all facts. You're just ignoring them when you derail every thread talking about how awful Crean is.

 

[becauseIknow]

My claims of Glass's concerns are consistent with the facts, which is why you're struggling with them. As for Crean, he's obviously a top ten paid coach who's been unable to build a top ten program after eight years of trying, with no reasonable expectation that things will change under his leadership.

The facts are as follows, which is why I said you better reconnect with the timeline of events.

April 1, 2008 named coach at Indiana University
July 28, 2008 given a two year extension
Oct 28, 2008 Glass named AD
Jan 1, 2009 Glass officially starts position as AD

http://scoop.hoosiershq.com/2008/07/report-crean-gets-two-more-years/

He got a 2 year extension before August. Before one practice. Before one game. Before students even returned to campus.

Simply put, your calendar of events don't match the facts.

There was no concern of poaching 4 months after being named coach. Not the reason at all for that first extension, and this is where we disagree. I think the facts back me up, as does common sense. It was done because of the disaster that Crean walked into and the rebuild requirements.

Furthermore, that extension happened when Glass wasn't even the AD yet. Greenspan was still the AD at the time. I'm not sure why you are not connecting the dots on this. You keep bringing up Glass and an extension, but the Glass extension didn't happen until later, when he was actually the AD.

Fred Glass was named late October 2008, months after this extension was given in July. http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2008/10/fred-glass-to-be-named-iu-athletic.html