I didn't think high rated kids stayed in state?

[becauseIknow]

Not true check Alabama's record under Mike Debose and their record under Mike Shula was similar to what IU has accomplished from TC the last few years. They even had one golden year in the 1990's under Gene Stallings that could be compared to the one run Mike Davis made.

What is not true? That they won the national title in every decade since the 1930's except two? That is absolutely true. There is no comparison to Alabama football and IU basketball. NONE.

Your comment about Gene Stallings is also garbage. His second year they went 11-1. His third year they won the national title. One golden year? Give me a break. Two years later they finished 12-1 and were in the hunt for the national title all year long. One golden year. Stop making stuff up.

In a four year span they went 45-5-1. But you say that is one golden year.

However, here's the catch which is what I said earlier. The NCAA came down on them, and they had to forfeit 8 wins. Just as Kentucky has been caught and North Carolina and others. You keep comparing us to schools that can't seem to win without getting caught cheating. Is that what you want? No thanks.

 

[Frosty83]

IU's best chance of winning consistently is having a coach who runs a system that will produce consistent results. Crean has never done that, and unless he changes his style it ain't happening.

What Big 10 coach has been better over the last 4 years. Consistently!! You are stating opinion.
FACT: TC just won Big Ten COY. FACT: IU won their 2nd championship in 4 years. I am not a huge TC fan but he and IU had a good year last year and look to have a good one this year. I hope they go all the way.

 

[biggio7]

What is not true? That they won the national title in every decade since the 1930's except two? That is absolutely true. There is no comparison to Alabama football and IU basketball. NONE.

Your comment about Gene Stallings is also garbage. His second year they went 11-1. His third year they won the national title. One golden year? Give me a break. Two years later they finished 12-1 and were in the hunt for the national title all year long. One golden year. Stop making stuff up.

In a four year span they went 45-5-1. But you say that is one golden year.

However, here's the catch which is what I said earlier. The NCAA came down on them, and they had to forfeit 8 wins. Just as Kentucky has been caught and North Carolina and others. You keep comparing us to schools that can't seem to win without getting caught cheating. Is that what you want? No thanks.

What is not true? That they won the national title in every decade since the 1930's except two? That is absolutely true. There is no comparison to Alabama football and IU basketball. NONE.

Your comment about Gene Stallings is also garbage. His second year they went 11-1. His third year they won the national title. One golden year? Give me a break. Two years later they finished 12-1 and were in the hunt for the national title all year long. One golden year. Stop making stuff up.

In a four year span they went 45-5-1. But you say that is one golden year.

However, here's the catch which is what I said earlier. The NCAA came down on them, and they had to forfeit 8 wins. Just as Kentucky has been caught and North Carolina and others. You keep comparing us to schools that can't seem to win without getting caught cheating. Is that what you want? No thanks.

They went 24-23 under Mike Debose hardly a National Player than Shula had similar years it took NS 2 years to return to power. If you want to play the decade game IU had a final 4 teams in every Decade but the 60's since 1940. BK's teams in the early 90's were similar to the Stalling teams so comparing the 2 can be made. Your argument actually makes it look like IU has a better chance to be successful because they had their success without having to forfeit games. Fact is there is great deal of similarity between the 2 programs the difference is Alabama has an elite football coach IU has an average basketball coach.

 

[Stuffshot]

Maybe I have you confused with someone else. You seemed to not have a feel for how hires work, which is perhaps why I confused you with someone else.

No, actually, your posts tell me I know exactly how hires work. The fact that I asked a rhetorical question doesn't mean I didn't know the answer.

The AD can consult a search committee or other experts to get input who he should try to hire but it's never certain that he will get the guy he wants. But he hires someone anyway.

As you said in Post 392: "There are no absolutes or full proof hires where failure never occurs."

And that's the point a lot of posters who want change refuse to admit. If the goal really is to hire an "elite" coach, it will probably lead to failure (because there are virtually no "elite" coaches) and will have to be done again and again and again. There's no guarantee of a Saban or Krzyzewski at the end of the process.

 

[TheSpa]

No, actually, your posts tell me I know exactly how hires work. The fact that I asked a rhetorical question doesn't mean I didn't know the answer.

The AD can consult a search committee or other experts to get input who he should try to hire but it's never certain that he will get the guy he wants. But he hires someone anyway.

As you said in Post 392: "There are no absolutes or full proof hires where failure never occurs."

And that's the point a lot of posters who want change refuse to admit. If the goal really is to hire an "elite" coach, it will probably lead to failure (because there are virtually no "elite" coaches) and will have to be done again and again and again. There's no guarantee of a Saban or Krzyzewski at the end of the process.

Well, there are rarely sure things when hires are made, regardless of the profession. If you're IU (or anyone else), you do your homework and hope that the level of experience and expertise is met with the sort of qualities I suggested were of high importance, and then you pull the trigger. Obviously, it doesn't always work as well as people hoped, as the current situation confirms.

And I did confuse you with someone else. I believe you were the person who confused Peoria with Chicago. Lol.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

What Big 10 coach has been better over the last 4 years. Consistently!! You are stating opinion.
FACT: TC just won Big Ten COY. FACT: IU won their 2nd championship in 4 years. I am not a huge TC fan but he and IU had a good year last year and look to have a good one this year. I hope they go all the way.

FACT: After winning the 2013 Big 10, Crean completely missed the tournament (with MORE than enough talent), barely got into the tournament the following year and then won a RS conference title in an extremely weak year for the Big 10.

That is not winning "consistently". FACT.

What Big 10 coach has been better the last 4 years? Depends on your standards, I guess. If winning RS conference titles is what you look at, Crean's your guy. If making deep runs in the NCAA is what you strive for, I'm taking Izzo and Beilien. FACT

 

[Frosty83]

FACT: After winning the 2013 Big 10, Crean completely missed the tournament (with MORE than enough talent), barely got into the tournament the following year and then won a RS conference title in an extremely weak year for the Big 10.

That is not winning "consistently". FACT.

What Big 10 coach has been better the last 4 years? Depends on your standards, I guess. If winning RS conference titles is what you look at, Crean's your guy. If making deep runs in the NCAA is what you strive for, I'm taking Izzo and Beilien. FACT

You can do better than that....Beilien is not in the Big 10.... Has been suspended from games and banned from the NCAA Tournament ...... And went out in the round of 32 with his most talented team.
Izzo. . ... Had the highest ranked team and most talent in the BIG and loses in the first round last year . . . Overall Izzo has a much better track record than TC, but Crean was a better coach last year and has IU ranked in the top 20 after losing their second best point guard of all time statistically. TC and IU did well last year and are poised to do so again. Be positive.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

You can do better than that....Beilien is not in the Big 10.... Has been suspended from games and banned from the NCAA Tournament ...... And went out in the round of 32 with his most talented team.
Izzo. . ... Had the highest ranked team and most talent in the BIG and loses in the first round last year . . . Overall Izzo has a much better track record than TC, but Crean was a better coach last year and has IU ranked in the top 20 after losing their second best point guard of all time statistically. TC and IU did well last year and are poised to do so again. Be positive.

John Beilien is not coaching Michigan?

You asked "which Big 20 coach has been better the last 4 years".

Tom Crean
2 outright RS titles
2 Sweet 16's

Tom Izzo
Final Four
Elite 8
Sweet 16
2 BTT titles

John Beilein (you know, the guy who coaches Michigan?)
National RunnerUp
Elite 8
Outright RS title

And you're telling me I can do better?

 

[Frosty83]

I need glasses or a bigger screen... .. I do think TC is better than Boeheim. Can't stand cheaters. In your defense I love Beilein. Feeling a little embarrassed for my misread.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I need glasses or a bigger screen... ..

Huh???

(yeah - Tas is deaf, too)

I do think TC is better than Boeheim. Can't stand cheaters.

JB resume trumps Crean's, but agree IU shouldn't have to resort to his type of program to be successful.

I love Beilein. Feeling a little embarrassed for my misread.

NP - I've had my moments, too.

 

[becauseIknow]

They went 24-23 under Mike Debose hardly a National Player than Shula had similar years it took NS 2 years to return to power. If you want to play the decade game IU had a final 4 teams in every Decade but the 60's since 1940. BK's teams in the early 90's were similar to the Stalling teams so comparing the 2 can be made. Your argument actually makes it look like IU has a better chance to be successful because they had their success without having to forfeit games. Fact is there is great deal of similarity between the 2 programs the difference is Alabama has an elite football coach IU has an average basketball coach.

All programs at any level go through dry spells. Whether that is the LA Lakers, Dallas Cowboys, North Carolina Tarheels, Alabama Tide or anyone else.

You are comparing a Mount Rushmore program in Alabama football to a solid, at times very good Indiana program that is not on Mount Rushmore. That's the beef I have. The comparison isn't appropriate. I would put IU basketball comparable to Texas football. Very good, elite at times, but in that second tier once you get outside the top 6 all time. Alabama, is, has been, and likely always will be in the top 3.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

What is not true? That they won the national title in every decade since the 1930's except two? That is absolutely true. There is no comparison to Alabama football and IU basketball. NONE.

Your comment about Gene Stallings is also garbage. His second year they went 11-1. His third year they won the national title. One golden year? Give me a break. Two years later they finished 12-1 and were in the hunt for the national title all year long. One golden year. Stop making stuff up.

In a four year span they went 45-5-1. But you say that is one golden year.

However, here's the catch which is what I said earlier. The NCAA came down on them, and they had to forfeit 8 wins. Just as Kentucky has been caught and North Carolina and others. You keep comparing us to schools that can't seem to win without getting caught cheating. Is that what you want? No thanks.

Alabama has never won an NCAA title in football

Comparing winning a tourney to what has been the sports equivalent of American Idol is silly, even for you

 

[biggio7]

All programs at any level go through dry spells. Whether that is the LA Lakers, Dallas Cowboys, North Carolina Tarheels, Alabama Tide or anyone else.

You are comparing a Mount Rushmore program in Alabama football to a solid, at times very good Indiana program that is not on Mount Rushmore. That's the beef I have. The comparison isn't appropriate. I would put IU basketball comparable to Texas football. Very good, elite at times, but in that second tier once you get outside the top 6 all time. Alabama, is, has been, and likely always will be in the top 3.

I guess I think IU should be on Mount Rushmore and it was from 1971-1994 guess we are just in a dry spell under TC that will continue. One question is Duke on Mt. Rushmore ??

 

[becauseIknow]

I guess I think IU should be on Mount Rushmore and it was from 1971-1994 guess we are just in a dry spell under TC that will continue. One question is Duke on Mt. Rushmore ??

That is the issue, in my mind. Our fans have always put us on a slightly higher pedestal than the rest of the country and we have a hard time due to the bias of seeing the bias. It is normal, fans do it about their own teams, but you get a better read by understanding what the masses think across the nation.

Your comment about a dry spell under TC is mind blowing. The dry spell started under Knight and continued well beyond it. If anything, for the first time in two decades we actually are showing signs of coming out of the dry spell. The question I have is whether we can. You've already made that declaration that we can't, despite the trajectory over the last 4 years. I'm not ready to go there yet, but to suggest the dry spell is under TC seems way out of line to me when one considers the last 21 years and where most of the success has come.

Duke? That's a tough one. Right now, I would say no. It depends what happens to them in the 10 to 20 years after coach K is gone. If they keep it going, then they are added. To be on Rushmore, you need to be consistently good decade after decade after decade. That may not mean national titles each decade, but in the conversation. Conference titles, top 10 rankings, deep runs, the occasional title or national runner up. Preferably done by 2+ coaches, not just one that has a 20 to 30 year run. That separate Rushmore to me. That's also why Alabama makes it in football (Stallings, some guy named Bear Bryant, Saban, and to a lesser extent Frank Thomas.).

 

[biggio7]

That is the issue, in my mind. Our fans have always put us on a slightly higher pedestal than the rest of the country and we have a hard time due to the bias of seeing the bias. It is normal, fans do it about their own teams, but you get a better read by understanding what the masses think across the nation.

Your comment about a dry spell under TC is mind blowing. The dry spell started under Knight and continued well beyond it. If anything, for the first time in two decades we actually are showing signs of coming out of the dry spell. The question I have is whether we can. You've already made that declaration that we can't, despite the trajectory over the last 4 years. I'm not ready to go there yet, but to suggest the dry spell is under TC seems way out of line to me when one considers the last 21 years and where most of the success has come.

Duke? That's a tough one. Right now, I would say no. It depends what happens to them in the 10 to 20 years after coach K is gone. If they keep it going, then they are added. To be on Rushmore, you need to be consistently good decade after decade after decade. That may not mean national titles each decade, but in the conversation. Conference titles, top 10 rankings, deep runs, the occasional title or national runner up. Preferably done by 2+ coaches, not just one that has a 20 to 30 year run. That separate Rushmore to me. That's also why Alabama makes it in football (Stallings, some guy named Bear Bryant, Saban, and to a lesser extent Frank Thomas.).

Alabama had dry spells in the 40's and 50's similar to what IU is experiencing until Bryant got there if you are considering Duke a program that had a limited number of final fours until Coach K got there than that shows what an elite coach can do I guess after year 12 you might come to the conclusion TC is average I reached that after year 8.conclusion after year 8.......

 

[becauseIknow]

Alabama had dry spells in the 40's and 50's similar to what IU is experiencing until Bryant got there if you are considering Duke a program that had a limited number of final fours until Coach K got there than that shows what an elite coach can do I guess after year 12 you might come to the conclusion TC is average I reached that after year 8.conclusion after year 8.......

Yes, all programs have dry spells. If you are comparing Alabama's football prowess vs Indiana basketball, you are mistaken. Elite vs very good, and that difference is enormous.

16 national titles in football.

IU has 5 in basketball

 

[trailrunner]

I was just talking about the Crean era and Montross and May did not play in that era. Not satisfied with sweet 16's but I am not going to lose my mind if we don't win a championship either. It is just a game and if an outcome of the game make you hysterical then maybe you should find another pastime.

In Indiana it is a religion. You would know that if you had played HS ball there.

 

[trailrunner]

I never said they couldn't get passed the sweet 16 but it is stupid just to make a change for the sake of making a change. I would agree that a change would be needed if we were finishing 6th or 7th every year and barely making the tournament or not making it at all. I know you don't think winning the conference or going to the sweet 16 is anything to be proud of but Crean has won 2 championships in 4 years so it is not like we are not competing at a high level. if course I want more but I am not going to downgrade what he has done th e last 4 years either.

Please use spell check

 

[trailrunner]

False. I wasn't following any school other than the one I was working for at the time and my alma mater, which Marquette is neither.

Secondly, yes that is part of why Davis was fired, but again that isn't what was said. You said, "if IU can't get Indiana kids, the coach will not last long.....ask Mike Davis". Keep changing the narrative.

So, you picked Year B. As predicted. Wrong choice. On Let's Make A Deal with Monty Hall, you would have gone home with a goat.

You are a strange fellow.

 

[Travis Denny]

Well, there are rarely sure things when hires are made, regardless of the profession. If you're IU (or anyone else), you do your homework and hope that the level of experience and expertise is met with the sort of qualities I suggested were of high importance, and then you pull the trigger. Obviously, it doesn't always work as well as people hoped, as the current situation confirms.

And I did confuse you with someone else. I believe you were the person who confused Peoria with Chicago. Lol.

how are you saying it has not worked out with this current situation. how do we fire a coach who just got BTCY and won the BT out right two out 3yrs. and 3SS. take away years 1-2 and really year 3 IMO as well, TC 5 yr run has been pretty good. with this team coming up, if we do something special theoretically and lets say we win a NC or go to the FF, are all you TC haters going to find something else to bitch about? JS!!

 

[Shirtsandskins]

how are you saying it has not worked out with this current situation. how do we fire a coach who just got BTCY and won the BT out right two out 3yrs. and 3SS. take away years 1-2 and really year 3 IMO as well, TC 5 yr run has been pretty good. with this team coming up, if we do something special theoretically and lets say we win a NC or go to the FF, are all you TC haters going to find something else to bitch about? JS!!

Spa didn't say it hasn't worked out, he said it hasn't worked out as well as people hoped


Big ten....last/9/last/5/1/8/7/1....avg of 4-5th(not counting first three yes

NCAAT.....na/na/na/4/1/na/7/5.....6-4 in NCAAT

I'd say that things haven't been as good as we hoped....nice regular season highs, with depressing lows as well...NCAAT has been at best, meh

 

[TheSpa]

how are you saying it has not worked out with this current situation. how do we fire a coach who just got BTCY and won the BT out right two out 3yrs. and 3SS. take away years 1-2 and really year 3 IMO as well, TC 5 yr run has been pretty good. with this team coming up, if we do something special theoretically and lets say we win a NC or go to the FF, are all you TC haters going to find something else to bitch about? JS!!

Most fans, with the exception of a few (including some who regularly post here), we're hopeful that Crean would return IU to elite status. Fred Glass very publicly stated that being elite was his objective for the program.

Obviously, that hasn't happened, and there's really nothing to suggest that it will.

 

[Stuffshot]

Well, there are rarely sure things when hires are made, regardless of the profession. If you're IU (or anyone else), you do your homework and hope that the level of experience and expertise is met with the sort of qualities I suggested were of high importance, and then you pull the trigger. Obviously, it doesn't always work as well as people hoped, as the current situation confirms.

And I did confuse you with someone else. I believe you were the person who confused Peoria with Chicago. Lol.

Huh? When did I do that?

 

[TheSpa]

Huh? When did I do that?

When discussing IU players from Chicagoland. I listed a number of them but acknowledged that I was likely missing a few. You responded by adding a couple of players from the Peoria area, which isn't Chicagoland by even the most liberal of definitions.

 

[IU Scott]

In Indiana it is a religion. You would know that if you had played HS ball there.

I did play and have lived in Indiana all of my life. I used to take the games way to seriously and let the outcome of the game effect my life but I no longer do that.

 

[becauseIknow]

Please use spell check

Please finish your sentences properly with a terminal punctuation mark. Typically, a period, question mark, or exclamation point.

 

[becauseIknow]

You are a strange fellow.

Facts are strange to some people. Fact providers make me a strange fellow? OK, happy to be strange. I was able to live these facts up close and personal, not sitting in the stands or at home watching TV.

 

[ZildjianZLine]

Alabama had dry spells in the 40's and 50's similar to what IU is experiencing until Bryant got there if you are considering Duke a program that had a limited number of final fours until Coach K got there than that shows what an elite coach can do I guess after year 12 you might come to the conclusion TC is average I reached that after year 8.conclusion after year 8.......

The Mike Shula and Mike Dubose years were tough as well, and more recent, than the 40's and 50's for Alabama. Just to add an amplifying remark.

 

[becauseIknow]

The Mike Shula and Mike Dubose years were tough as well, and more recent, than the 40's and 50's for Alabama. Just to add an amplifying remark.

And any comparison of IU basketball history to Alabama football history is a bridge way too far.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

And any comparison of IU basketball history to Alabama football history is a bridge way too far.

Thought you were going to bed old man

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Except for

Jordan Hulls
Yogi
James Blackmon
Quentin Taylor
Hartman
Devin Davis
Jeremy Hollowell
Etherington
Gordon
Elston
Zeller
Etc

Yes, I know some kids didn't stick with the program. Transfers happen, more today than ever before.

Why are they happening at a higher rate at Indiana? 17 players (18 if you count Marlin, who gave up a D1 scholly to be a preferred walk on).

Please enlighten us on any other programs with that many kids transferring out during the Tom Crean era. One-and-dones (UK) don't count.

 

[ZildjianZLine]

And any comparison of IU basketball history to Alabama football history is a bridge way too far.

I didn't make any comparisons, I simply added a remark to illustrate that Alabama's woes were much more recent. And after reading the subsequent posts, others were well aware of the information that I added. If you desperately needed to single out my post, you should have taken the angle of it being superfluous because it's not inaccurate. But since you've made your agenda crystal clear long ago, your response is equally predictable.

 

[Stuffshot]

When discussing IU players from Chicagoland. I listed a number of them but acknowledged that I was likely missing a few. You responded by adding a couple of players from the Peoria area, which isn't Chicagoland by even the most liberal of definitions.

Really? OK. But, for the record, I knew that Beilein coaches in the Big Ten. Any credit for that? LOL

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Really? OK. But, for the record, I knew that Beilein coaches in the Big Ten. Any credit for that? LOL

1/2 credit

 

[TheSpa]

Really? OK. But, for the record, I knew that Beilein coaches in the Big Ten. Any credit for that? LOL

Congratulations Mr. Kroger, you're at the top of the Delta Tau Chi pledge class.

 

[Stuffshot]

Congratulations Mr. Kroger, you're at the top of the Delta Tau Chi pledge class.

Thank you Mr. Marmalard.

 

[TheSpa]

Thank you Mr. Marmalard.

It was actually Dean Wormer.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

It was actually Dean Wormer.

"Yeah - but we didn't quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!"

 

[TheSpa]

"Yeah - but we didn't quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!"

". . . or went to prep school in California." Of course, if they don't go to IU, they're morally defective.

 

[tru123dt]

". . . or went to prep school in California." Of course, if they don't go to IU, they're morally defective.

Transferring in August of your senior year does raise red flags in my book. Especially when there is evidence that it is over a split between AAU coaches. Plus how he seemed to be a head case in semi state is pointing in the direction that he maybe a loose cannon.