How's That Electric Grid Improvement Holding Up?

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Maybe instead of bitching about 'the other side' our elected vote whores shoulda been worrying about stuff like the electric grid?

No new coal plants or improved coal tech.
Mama don't allow no drilling 'round here.
No nuke plants or nuke and improved nuke tech.
1930's technology.

And LOTS of bitching.

Not mention the reliance on the NET and the Covid test feint to see how our supply chain works.

One click and China can send us all to 1930 anyway.

Thanks!

 

[UncleMark]

Maybe instead of bitching about 'the other side' our elected vote whores shoulda been worrying about stuff like the electric grid?

No new coal plants or improved coal tech.
Mama don't allow no drilling 'round here.
No nuke plants or nuke and improved nuke tech.
1930's technology.

And LOTS of bitching.

Not mention the reliance on the NET and the Covid test feint to see how our supply chain works.

One click and China can send us all to 1930 anyway.

Thanks!

Yeah, those Texans shouldn't have decided to go it alone.

 

[Harry Hondo]

Maybe instead of bitching about 'the other side' our elected vote whores shoulda been worrying about stuff like the electric grid?

No new coal plants or improved coal tech.
Mama don't allow no drilling 'round here.
No nuke plants or nuke and improved nuke tech.
1930's technology.

And LOTS of bitching.

Not mention the reliance on the NET and the Covid test feint to see how our supply chain works.

One click and China can send us all to 1930 anyway.

Thanks!

What the hell are you talking about? The only power grid problem resides in Texas and that’s because they are off the national grid and on their own.

 

[iuwclurker]

Maybe instead of bitching about 'the other side' our elected vote whores shoulda been worrying about stuff like the electric grid?

No new coal plants or improved coal tech.
Mama don't allow no drilling 'round here.
No nuke plants or nuke and improved nuke tech.
1930's technology.

And LOTS of bitching.

Not mention the reliance on the NET and the Covid test feint to see how our supply chain works.

One click and China can send us all to 1930 anyway.

Thanks!

sigh

you make mitch look like a

 

[Fro]

What the hell are you talking about? The only power grid problem resides in Texas and that’s because they are off the national grid and on their own.

Yeah, the problem is the lack of regulations requiring reserve capacity in Texas (instead "the free market figures it out") and that the idiots didn't winterize anything (whether natural gas, coal, or wind) in Texas. Plus they were cheapskates and didn't pay to have enough natural gas on-hand, so now there are piles of coal frozen solid, etc. Most of their energy is still natural gas/coal.

If they were on the national grid they'd get regulated so that this wouldn't happen and other plants in other states could pick up some of the slack.

 

[El Drado]

We make the rules...Mother Nature makes the laws. She always wins.

 

[cosmickid]

Yeah, those Texans shouldn't have decided to go it alone.

Talk about a tweet coming back to bite you... Even Ted couldn't talk his way out of this one. So in the closest thing, you'll ever see to Cruz taking ownership of his own mouth/brain and his own failed climate denial...

 

[cosmickid]

Maybe instead of bitching about 'the other side' our elected vote whores shoulda been worrying about stuff like the electric grid?

No new coal plants or improved coal tech.
Mama don't allow no drilling 'round here.
No nuke plants or nuke and improved nuke tech.
1930's technology.

And LOTS of bitching.

Not mention the reliance on the NET and the Covid test feint to see how our supply chain works.

One click and China can send us all to 1930 anyway.

Thanks!

I hope you're including this Colorado City Mayor (Tim Boyd) in the group of politicians you describe as "vote whores"? Talk about being tone-deaf to a problem your Party has had a large hand in perpetuating with your denial of basic climate reality...

 

[UncleMark]

I hope you're including this Colorado City Mayor (Tim Boyd) in the group of politicians you describe as "vote whores"? Talk about being tone-deaf to a problem your Party has had a large hand in perpetuating with your denial of basic climate reality...

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Mayor Boyd has heat, lights, and water where he's at.

 

[HooDatGuy]

Yeah, the problem is the lack of regulations requiring reserve capacity in Texas (instead of "the free market figuring it out") and that the idiots didn't winterize anything (whether natural gas, coal, or wind) in Texas. Plus they were cheapskates and didn't pay to have enough natural gas on-hand, so now there are piles of coal frozen solid, etc. Most of their energy is still natural gas/coal.

If they were on the national grid they'd get regulated so that this wouldn't happen and other plants in other states could pick up some of the slack.

That prickly Texas independence comes with some good and bad things. This appears to be a bad thing.

 

[outside shooter]

 

[HooDatGuy]

Well it’s just that simple guys...

 

[Cortez88]

I’ve re read the OP several times and I have no idea what he is saying, especially given the reasons Texas is in its current state.

 

[larsIU]

I’ve re read the OP several times and I have no idea what he is saying, especially given the reasons Texas is in its current state.

Stare at this picture for a second and let me know if it hits you.

 

[Fro]

Really good thread here from an engineering professor at Princeton

Basically ERCOT publishes all the data, so you can see what capacity is offline and how this was more than their "worst-case" scenario for cold-weather demand.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I hope you're including this Colorado City Mayor (Tim Boyd) in the group of politicians you describe as "vote whores"? Talk about being tone-deaf to a problem your Party has had a large hand in perpetuating with your denial of basic climate reality...

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Could just be me, but that doesn't seem to be the usual "pandering" we see from a vote whore.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

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Really good thread here from an engineering professor at Princeton

Basically ERCOT publishes all the data, so you can see what capacity is offline and how this was more than their "worst-case" scenario for cold-weather demand.

Electricity is “stored” in a coal pile or In fissionable material in a reactor. Wind, solar, and gas have no storage. If the sun don’t shine, if the wind turbines are iced up or the wind doesn’t blow, or if the gas pipelines don’t work because of frozen compressors, or no electricity to operate them, there will be no electricity. It doesn’t take a total failure to bring down a grid. A partial failure does the job. It would be nice to have electricity saved up for a rainy day, but that factor is not part of any governmental energy policy.

 

[T.M.P.]

If the sun don’t shine,

Like when it's night or during an eclipse? I'm sure the sun has shined daily for billions of years so ...... ugh .. yea.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Electricity is “stored” in a coal pile or In fissionable material in a reactor. Wind, solar, and gas have no storage. If the sun don’t shine, if the wind turbines are iced up or the wind doesn’t blow, or if the gas pipelines don’t work because of frozen compressors, or no electricity to operate them, there will be no electricity. It doesn’t take a total failure to bring down a grid. A partial failure does the job. It would be nice to have electricity saved up for a rainy day, but that factor is not part of any governmental energy policy.

The wind is blowing and the turbines are working just fine in Alaska, Canada, and Antarctica. Try and educate yourself cousin Eddy.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The wind is blowing and the turbines are working just fine in Alaska, Canada, and Antarctica. Try and educate yourself cousin Eddy.

Windmill blades ice up in much the same way airplane wings do. There are a number of ways to compensate; but they all come with a price.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Windmill blades ice up in much the same way airplane wings do. There are a number of ways to compensate; but they all come with a price.

Airplanes still fly. Windmills still make power. As I stated, the ones in Alaska, Antarctica, and Canada are working just fine. The ones in TX aren't working because TX didn't winterize them.

 

[T.M.P.]

Airplanes still fly. Windmills still make power.

And the sun shines daily.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Airplanes still fly. Windmills still make power. As I stated, the ones in Alaska, Antarctica, and Canada are working just fine. The ones in TX aren't working because TX didn't winterize them.

Texas didn’t build them and Texas doesn’t operate them.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Texas didn’t build them and Texas doesn’t operate them.

WTF??? You serious Clark? TX has their own power grid. They chose deregulation. They chose not to spend $$$ to winterize them.

https://www.texastribune.org/2011/02/08/texplainer-why-does-texas-have-its-own-power-grid/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/16/ercot-texas-electric-grid-failure/

 

[CO. Hoosier]

WTF??? You serious Clark? TX has their own power grid. They chose deregulation. They chose not to spend $$$ to winterize them.

https://www.texastribune.org/2011/02/08/texplainer-why-does-texas-have-its-own-power-grid/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/16/ercot-texas-electric-grid-failure/

Texas didn’t build them and Texas doesn’t operate them.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Texas didn’t build them and Texas doesn’t operate them.

Are you really trying to rely on an argument that is totally based off semantics here? TX gave ERCOT the job of running the grid. TX is the entire co-op. No other states but TX are using ERCOT. You can't get TX being anymore involved than they are literally involved.

http://www.ercot.com/about

"The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) manages the flow of electric power to more than 26 million Texas customers -- representing about 90 percent of the state’s electric load. As the independent system operator for the region, ERCOT schedules power on an electric grid that connects more than 46,500 miles of transmission lines and 680+ generation units. It also performs financial settlement for the competitive wholesale bulk-power market and administers retail switching for 8 million premises in competitive choice areas. ERCOT is a membership-based 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation, governed by a board of directors and subject to oversight by the Public Utility Commission of Texas and the Texas Legislature. Its members include consumers, cooperatives, generators, power marketers, retail electric providers, investor-owned electric utilities, transmission and distribution providers and municipally owned electric utilities."

ALL of the members are from TX. The funding comes from TX. The employees are Texans. The municipally owned utilities they oversee are built in and power TX. WTF argument are you trying to make??

Governance
The Public Utility Commission of Texas (PUCT) has jurisdiction over activities conducted by the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT). ERCOT is governed by a board of directors made up of independent members, consumers and representatives from each of ERCOT's electric market segments.

The Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) makes policy recommendations to the board of directors. The TAC is assisted by five standing subcommittees as well as numerous workgroups and task forces.

The board of directors appoints ERCOT's officers to direct and manage ERCOT's day-to-day operations, accompanied by a team of executives and managers responsible for critical components of ERCOT's operations areas.

http://www.ercot.com/about/governance

 

[SqueakyClean]

Electricity is “stored” in a coal pile or In fissionable material in a reactor. Wind, solar, and gas have no storage. If the sun don’t shine, if the wind turbines are iced up or the wind doesn’t blow, or if the gas pipelines don’t work because of frozen compressors, or no electricity to operate them, there will be no electricity. It doesn’t take a total failure to bring down a grid. A partial failure does the job. It would be nice to have electricity saved up for a rainy day, but that factor is not part of any governmental energy policy.

Coal fired plants have a lay-down area for their coal. They usually keep a few days supply of excess coal on grounds in the event that there is a disruption to the delivery system (ie. train or barge system delayed due to weather / accidents).

Wind Turbines / Solar generate their electricity and supply it to battery storages that meter out the required output. Thus the reason that energy is still being supplied at night / non windy days. I'm not as familiar with these systems, so I do not know the storage capacity they have in excess, but I believe it is in the order of days, not hours.

Natural gas plants have high pressure storage tanks. Similar to the coal-fired plants, they keep an excess on hand for disruption.

I'd have to do research to determine whether these storage requirements are mandated by the government at a particular amount or whether the electricity suppliers do it based upon good business practices, but regardless of the reason why, they do exist.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Are you really trying to rely on an argument that is totally based off semantics here? TX gave ERCOT the job of running the grid. TX is the entire co-op. No other states but TX are using ERCOT. You can't get TX being anymore involved than they are literally involved.

http://www.ercot.com/about

"The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) manages the flow of electric power to more than 26 million Texas customers -- representing about 90 percent of the state’s electric load. As the independent system operator for the region, ERCOT schedules power on an electric grid that connects more than 46,500 miles of transmission lines and 680+ generation units. It also performs financial settlement for the competitive wholesale bulk-power market and administers retail switching for 8 million premises in competitive choice areas. ERCOT is a membership-based 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation, governed by a board of directors and subject to oversight by the Public Utility Commission of Texas and the Texas Legislature. Its members include consumers, cooperatives, generators, power marketers, retail electric providers, investor-owned electric utilities, transmission and distribution providers and municipally owned electric utilities."

ALL of the members are from TX. The funding comes from TX. The employees are Texans. The municipally owned utilities they oversee are built in and power TX. WTF argument are you trying to make??

Governance
The Public Utility Commission of Texas (PUCT) has jurisdiction over activities conducted by the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT). ERCOT is governed by a board of directors made up of independent members, consumers and representatives from each of ERCOT's electric market segments.

The Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) makes policy recommendations to the board of directors. The TAC is assisted by five standing subcommittees as well as numerous workgroups and task forces.

The board of directors appoints ERCOT's officers to direct and manage ERCOT's day-to-day operations, accompanied by a team of executives and managers responsible for critical components of ERCOT's operations areas.

http://www.ercot.com/about/governance

That's all true and doesn't detract from what I said. Power generation is not a governmental operation.

Texas has a unique method for establishing the price of power. It doesn't require base load reserve like most, if not all other, states. It's pretty much left to market forces. Incentives matter. Wind is highly incentivized which, when added to the market price forces, is why Texas leads the nation in wind power. The problem is that the incentives took wind power costs very low, in some cases into negative territory. This put the squeeze on coal and to a lesser extent gas. Texas also led the nation in closing or converting coal plants.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Coal fired plants have a lay-down area for their coal. They usually keep a few days supply of excess coal on grounds in the event that there is a disruption to the delivery system (ie. train or barge system delayed due to weather / accidents).

Wind Turbines / Solar generate their electricity and supply it to battery storages that meter out the required output. Thus the reason that energy is still being supplied at night / non windy days. I'm not as familiar with these systems, so I do not know the storage capacity they have in excess, but I believe it is in the order of days, not hours.

Natural gas plants have high pressure storage tanks. Similar to the coal-fired plants, they keep an excess on hand for disruption.

I'd have to do research to determine whether these storage requirements are mandated by the government at a particular amount or whether the electricity suppliers do it based upon good business practices, but regardless of the reason why, they do exist.

I don't think most wind farms have battery back ups. I also understand that most gas fired plants rely on just-in-time delivery through the pipeline infrastructure.

If you have links about this, I'd like to read them.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

That's all true and doesn't detract from what I said. Power generation is not a governmental operation.

Texas has a unique method for establishing the price of power. It doesn't require base load reserve like most, if not all other, states. It's pretty much left to market forces. Incentives matter. Wind is highly incentivized which, when added to the market price forces, is why Texas leads the nation in wind power. The problem is that the incentives took wind power costs very low, in some cases into negative territory. This put the squeeze on coal and to a lesser extent gas. Texas also led the nation in closing or converting coal plants.

Wind makes up less than 18% of their overall power. Almost all of their failures were in traditional power sourced plants. They didn't winterize their wind turbines. The wind turbines in Alaska, Antarctica, and Canada are working just fine.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

That's all true and doesn't detract from what I said. Power generation is not a governmental operation.

Texas has a unique method for establishing the price of power. It doesn't require base load reserve like most, if not all other, states. It's pretty much left to market forces. Incentives matter. Wind is highly incentivized which, when added to the market price forces, is why Texas leads the nation in wind power. The problem is that the incentives took wind power costs very low, in some cases into negative territory. This put the squeeze on coal and to a lesser extent gas. Texas also led the nation in closing or converting coal plants.

Notice that the frequency of negative price is in heavy wind power areas.

 

[bawlmer]

Notice that the frequency of negative price is in heavy wind power areas.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Is that a bad thing is a good thing?

I know this. It has nothing to do with why Texas' grid failed. Once again, CO.H has used his superpower to shift the discussion away from where it was when it was conclusively demonstrated he was talking out his ass.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Wind makes up less than 18% of their overall power. Almost all of their failures were in traditional power sourced plants. They didn't winterize their wind turbines. The wind turbines in Alaska, Antarctica, and Canada are working just fine.

Anchorage Temp 33, dew point 23... Houston temp 36 dew point 31, Huge difference when it comes to freezing. But you just keep up defending your stupidity, you can't quit now. Actually I think you should double down and blame Trump. Go for broke It. ( I use It, since man or woman probably isn't acceptable to you).

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

Depends on your POV. Great for consumers. Bad for those who have to compete with the subsidized wind power rates. Apparently whomever decided on the Texas rate system decided that the regulated monopoly approach of most all state PUC's was not consumer friendly. That has some appeal until you get to the point of insufficient capital investment.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Anchorage Temp 33, dew point 23... Houston temp 36 dew point 31, Huge difference when it comes to freezing. But you just keep up defending your stupidity, you can't quit now. Actually I think you should double down and blame Trump. Go for broke It. ( I use It, since man or woman probably isn't acceptable to you).

How cold is it all over Canada? Or Iowa? Or Antarctica? Or all over the world where their wind turbines were winterized and didn’t freeze up? This only happened in TX. Then, even though they make up less than 18% of their power, the Rep lawmakers specifically blamed them freezing up for their blackouts. This is all documented, and I’ve linked articles showing that above already. Also, the main power plant issues were with traditional power plants freezing up. Not with wind.

 

[82hoosier]

If West Virginia could send them some clean coal that would be a win-win!

 

[larsIU]

This can't be real right? He's can't be THIS BAD at politics and honestly consider running for President again. Shirley? My Lord what and absolute MORAN.

 

[bigmac76]

Maybe instead of bitching about 'the other side' our elected vote whores shoulda been worrying about stuff like the electric grid?

No new coal plants or improved coal tech.
Mama don't allow no drilling 'round here.
No nuke plants or nuke and improved nuke tech.
1930's technology.

And LOTS of bitching.

Not mention the reliance on the NET and the Covid test feint to see how our supply chain works.

One click and China can send us all to 1930 anyway.

Thanks!

oddly it was 35 degrees in Houston yesterday and minus 5 degrees in Iowa, take a guess on which states windmills were functioning correctly. Both states have Republican Governors by the way and Iowa generates 40% (Texas 20%) of their electricity off wind power.

 

[mcmurtry66]

This can't be real right? He's can't be THIS BAD at politics and honestly consider running for President again. Shirley? My Lord what and absolute MORAN.

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Evil.